I'm fighting for the whole forest, not just one tree, which is what you're harping on about- just the interaction of lifegain in limited, and conceding the rest? Its not a forest anymore when my logging is done.
Who exactly are you fighting against? Mark Rosewater? Is that why you're in the spoiler threads?
Also, while you see Mirran Mettle as only a keyword difference, you know gameplay-wise that it's extremely different. Before you could sit on a fetch land and crack it when you need to to get the +4/+4, where now you need to time your play carefully that your opponent can't naturalize your metalcraft away before you benefit. So in reality, Mirran Mettle is significantly less playable, but worse is definitely different. If havinf the 2/2 and 4/4 in both is too similar, start wondering why they never have instants that give +4/+2.
Just to make sure I'm clear to all, my meaning was that keyworded mechanics don't really vary from the attack and kill method; obviously individual cards are a different story, and I couldn't appreciate a reference any more than I do the above.
All you've said is that Poison operates in a different partition of the design space. You haven't said that this design space is different at all- its not. Its the same ground trodden by life. And that distinction, that differentiation, between life and poison, becomes arbitrary. It is not like Goblins vs Wizards vs Dragons, with opposed mechanics. It is not like Enchantments vs Artifacts. It is like Runeclaw Bears vs Grizzly Bears.
a) "with opposed mechanics" I shouldn't have to explain how bad an analogy creature type is to mechanic. Creature types dictate mechanics in many ways, where a machanic can interact with others however it feels like. A bear with flying will never happen, an infect with lifelink just did. It's just not comparable, and the fact that you suggested that infect, because it involves a seperate goal should have opposing mechanics. I suppose that would be winning by attacking myself and giving myself 10 poison counters instead.
b) You really think that a keyword that changes both a creature's damage to other creatures as well as to players is not new enough, you're expecting too much of keywords. Attacking the opponent until they die is how Magic works, and there will never be a keyword that offers you something different. If you want something different, go play Settlers of Catan or something. It's futile to get mad at Magic: the Gathering for printing Magic: the Gathering.
c) At worst, we say poison is exactly the same as life and infect is just a reprinting of wither. Would that really be bad to you? Don't you enjoy wither? I mean that would mean that nothing was added for the phyrex... oops proliferate: a mechanic that opens up plenty of shenanigans with just this set, but also has more implications to the whole collection of magic than anyone could name or think of.
You've taken a single aspect of the set that happens to play like playing MtG, and have gone around the topics explaining why it's bad to print something that works like playing MtG to a bunch of people who happen to enjoy playing MtG. Obvious Troll is Obvious?
PS- In regards to my point A, I would personally love a card that was
Sorcery- Until the beginning of the next end step, if you would lose the game, you win the game instead.
Ok, I noticed some math in this thread about the new artifact doubling machine with Doubling Season. I just figured...
What if you had 4 artifact doubling machines in play as well as 4 doubling seasons, infinite mana and then play four Precursor Golems... And kickblast four Rite of Replications on them. Go.
4 doubling season
Formula is 1 original+#of mirrorworks on the field to copy+ #of mirrorworks copies *16 from DS’s
Therefore 1+(17 *previous total)
Mirrorworks 1 1
Mirrorworks 2 1+1*17 = 18 mirrorworks
Mirrorworks 3 1+18*17= 307 mirrorworks
Mirrorworks 4 1+ 307*17= 5220 mirrorworks
Lets get tricky
Precursor 1 1 original +2 tokens *16 = 1 original card +32 3/3 tokens
5220 mirrorworks precursors*16 = 83520 precursor tokens
make 167040 *16 = 2672640 3/3 tokens for a total of… 83521 precursor golems and 2672640 3/3 tokens
Precursor Golems 2-4 are the same process, so multiply by 4 and get 334084 precursor golems and 10680560 3/3 tokens
Rite of replication kicked adds 5 multiples of each*16, so the totals get multiplied by 81, and then add 2 vanillas for each precursor golem added, so 2*5*16*total of precursors, thus the totals will be
81*previous precursors and 81* previous total + 160*(previous total of precursors) vanillas
I will finish this in a sec
Rite 1 27060804 precursors + 918578800 vanillas
Rite 2 2191925124 precursors + 78734611440 vanillas ((it thinks this is a phone number lolz))
Rite 3 177545935044 precursors + 6728211546480 vanillas
Rite 4 14381220738564 precursors + 573392484871920 vanillas
Total: 587,773,705,610,484 3/3 golems that die to a single lightning bolt
Who exactly are you fighting against? Mark Rosewater? Is that why you're in the spoiler threads?
Also, while you see Mirran Mettle as only a keyword difference, you know gameplay-wise that it's extremely different. Before you could sit on a fetch land and crack it when you need to to get the +4/+4, where now you need to time your play carefully that your opponent can't naturalize your metalcraft away before you benefit. So in reality, Mirran Mettle is significantly less playable, but worse is definitely different. If havinf the 2/2 and 4/4 in both is too similar, start wondering why they never have instants that give +4/+2.
Just to make sure I'm clear to all, my meaning was that keyworded mechanics don't really vary from the attack and kill method; obviously individual cards are a different story, and I couldn't appreciate a reference any more than I do the above.
a) "with opposed mechanics" I shouldn't have to explain how bad an analogy creature type is to mechanic. Creature types dictate mechanics in many ways, where a machanic can interact with others however it feels like. A bear with flying will never happen, an infect with lifelink just did. It's just not comparable, and the fact that you suggested that infect, because it involves a seperate goal should have opposing mechanics. I suppose that would be winning by attacking myself and giving myself 10 poison counters instead.
b) You really think that a keyword that changes both a creature's damage to other creatures as well as to players is not new enough, you're expecting too much of keywords. Attacking the opponent until they die is how Magic works, and there will never be a keyword that offers you something different. If you want something different, go play Settlers of Catan or something. It's futile to get mad at Magic: the Gathering for printing Magic: the Gathering.
c) At worst, we say poison is exactly the same as life and infect is just a reprinting of wither. Would that really be bad to you? Don't you enjoy wither? I mean that would mean that nothing was added for the phyrex... oops proliferate: a mechanic that opens up plenty of shenanigans with just this set, but also has more implications to the whole collection of magic than anyone could name or think of.
You've taken a single aspect of the set that happens to play like playing MtG, and have gone around the topics explaining why it's bad to print something that works like playing MtG to a bunch of people who happen to enjoy playing MtG. Obvious Troll is Obvious?
PS- In regards to my point A, I would personally love a card that was
Sorcery- Until the beginning of the next end step, if you would lose the game, you win the game instead.
4 doubling season
Formula is 1 original+#of mirrorworks on the field to copy+ #of mirrorworks copies *16 from DS’s
Therefore 1+(17 *previous total)
Mirrorworks 1 1
Mirrorworks 2 1+1*17 = 18 mirrorworks
Mirrorworks 3 1+18*17= 307 mirrorworks
Mirrorworks 4 1+ 307*17= 5220 mirrorworks
Lets get tricky
Precursor 1 1 original +2 tokens *16 = 1 original card +32 3/3 tokens
5220 mirrorworks precursors*16 = 83520 precursor tokens
make 167040 *16 = 2672640 3/3 tokens for a total of…
83521 precursor golems and 2672640 3/3 tokens
Precursor Golems 2-4 are the same process, so multiply by 4 and get
334084 precursor golems and 10680560 3/3 tokens
Rite of replication kicked adds 5 multiples of each*16, so the totals get multiplied by 81, and then add 2 vanillas for each precursor golem added, so 2*5*16*total of precursors, thus the totals will be
81*previous precursors and 81* previous total + 160*(previous total of precursors) vanillas
I will finish this in a sec
Rite 1 27060804 precursors + 918578800 vanillas
Rite 2 2191925124 precursors + 78734611440 vanillas ((it thinks this is a phone number lolz))
Rite 3 177545935044 precursors + 6728211546480 vanillas
Rite 4 14381220738564 precursors + 573392484871920 vanillas
Total: 587,773,705,610,484 3/3 golems that die to a single lightning bolt