Essence Scatter might be just what I'm looking for. Hah. I'll have to do some testing with it in the board. I guess my brain just wrote that card off as unplayable without actually thinking about it. The other card I've been thinking about testing is a deprive or two in the board, but the double blue + land return feels. restrictive.
I've been thinking about playing some amount of mandrills, after seeing your success with it. I would prefer to not go down the road of it being a four of, and having to play thought scour as a result. How many do you think would be doable in a deck filling its graveyard at a normal rate? 1-2?
I would say the biggest offender for me is abzan the matchup. This lists game plan is to be extremely aggresive while disrupting the opponent, but I can't come up with cards to board in that really keep the pressure on abzan, while making their life harder. There's always the classic blood moon, and I've been toying with huntmasters for a more grindy sideboard game, but would really prefer more ways to 1 for 1 rhinos/finks without the opponent gaining the life. Previously I was running flashfreeze for that, but I took it out due to tasigurs being everywhere. Maybe it's still good enough though.
Over the last 1-2 months I've been playing an aggressive swiftspear build of RUG delver to solid success at local tournaments. I've 3-0-1'd, splitting the finals, in the last three events I've played with it. I'm really happy with the main board, but the sideboard is still changing every week and is still under construction. Any thoughts on sideboard cards for the currently evolving modern meta would be appreciated.
I played a variation of the deck with tribal flames tonight, geared to face pod as I expected lots at the store. Played 3 games against pod going 2-1, losing one match to 2 games of flood really. and beat a u/b fae deck.
If siege rhino becomes the real deal, I really like tribal flames moving forward, 8 ways to remove a rhino is great, and the extra sorceries helps get goyf big.
Over the past few months I've had some consistent good results with this deck, but of recent I've been running into a wall made of rhinos. It seems that the new pod list that runs no combos, and just midrange beat down, life gain creatures has taken over my meta, and I've been getting crushed by it. Previously I didn't mind my pod match up, being able to pressure and keep them off pod was usually enough to take wins, but pod is hardly even the game plan of this new take on the deck. I've even been running two flashfreeze in my side board to help the match up, but it doesn't seem to be enough.
Anyone have any experience in beating the new style of pod list with this deck?
Could Savage Knuckleblade be a good threat (in sideboard as 1 or 2 of) in a meta that is more midrange/burn heavy ?
We almost never have 6 lands to play him and guarantee safety (and even if we do, we have no mana to do anything else with) and he trades for negative tempo with Abrupt Decay. Plus RUG is hard to make (you need Vents/Garden + basic; Fountain/Ground/Island doesn't work). How is he good against Burn? Just because he's big? Obstinate Baloth would be way better against both decks (lifegain relevant vs. Burn; discard clause relevant vs. Midrange). I love Knuckleblade but I doubt he works here.
I have to agree, with the mana constraints the deck has, just casting him is going to be awkward at times, and being able to cast and haste him will be even harder. I would much prefer a baloth, or even a mandrills in the board to bring in. Dodging abrupt decay is almost nessicary to be worth bringing in against midrange.
Ashton is right. Run more lifegain in white. Splashing blue won't really make the aggressive decks deal less damage to you.
It's not the damage to me that's the problem, though, it's damage to my creatures. I really just want the cheap counterspells to prevent nacatl and friends from being bolted before they have a chance to attack. I'm probably doing something wrong here.
Actually, I think that the Burn player is the one doing something wrong here. I am pretty sure that Burn is supposed to be trying to kill you, not keeping a clear board from turn 1 onwards.
You're wrong. Burn absolutely has to remove his threats or it'll lose to a stream of Bolts from Nacatl.
Ayla, try Hallow. Seriously. Counter a Searing Blaze and gain 6 life, isn't that exactly what you want?
I'm in USA for the week so trying out different stores. Went 4-0 in a Modern event tonight.
Round 1 - Bye. I get to walk around and see people on UR Delver, Blue Tron, various Burn decks, various Pod decks, and even Esper Control.
Round 2: 2-0 vs. Angel Pod - This is the guy who told me to come to Off the Wall tonight. Both games I build a ton of pressure and let him resolve Siege Rhino since I can race anyway.
Round 4: 2-0 vs. Junk Pod - G1 I remand Kitchen Finks forever while Wild Nacatl delivers beats over a useless Birthing Pod. G2 I mull to 5 and keep a no-lander with Faithless Looting. Rip Scalding Tarn off the top and Loot into a Temple Garden. We interact and Cruise puts me back in the game. He misses a Reveillark trigger and I'm able to stabilize with a Tarmogoyf. Revelry his Pods when he casts them.
Taking the deck to a SCG IQ tomorrow in Hartford, wish me luck!
Burn player definitely needs to be removing threats, and not just trying to race this deck. I've won so many games where the burn player was unwilling to point anything but a searing blaze at my threats, and when that gets countered, the race swings heavily in my favor.
Good luck at the IQ. Have you made any significant changes to the sideboard lately? The meta feels like it has been shifting some.
Awesome, what would you cut from your current list if you were going to play tribal flames?
I have been toying with the idea of running tribal flames in this deck. The trade off is really, huge amounts of reach VS slightly worse mana, and dropping paths to the sb. I think the only match ups where path REALLY outshines flames is pod and twin, and you'll only be losing access to them in g1. When I was playing a non delver, more counter heavy domain zoo based version of this, I can't tell you how many goyfs and rhinos I burned with flames.
I think I would play something along the lines of:
Yep this. Also covered Tribal Flames in the primer. Nice job on the finish, glad you liked the deck! Was the Mandrills ok? I also went 3-1 last night, losing to GR ramp with MD Blood Moon and Chalice (same deck/pilot who beat me at the GPT). Yeah, maindeck Chalice is very hard for us to beat. That's okay though, since it loses to everything else (Junk, Pod, etc.). If you're really seeing a lot of them at your LGS, pack an extra Ancient Grudge in the side or consider adding more Spell Snare to the MD. Other than that, UB Faeries is very easy to beat. Interesting choice to pack Electrolyze in the MD. Isn't Forked Bolt better?
At my LGS U/R delver is still running pretty rampant, so cheesy decks maining chalices to take advantage are a common sight. I'll definitely be packing two grudge in the board next event. The faeries matchup outside chalice did seem quite easy though. The one game he didn't have it I walked over him, and when he did it was the only thing stopping me from easily burning him out.
The mandrills was only drawn once on the night, and he was immediately pathed, so I can't say exactly how I feel about him.
I ran the single Electroylze main deck as a hedge that cycled really. I can't say I was ever really happy to draw it though. I think I'd rather play a third leak or remand over it. As well I ran 4 serum visions, and had games where I felt over loaded on them, making me too slow. I think I'll cut it down to 3 for another pierce or snare.
There were some ideas about tribal flames options earlier in the thread.
As for Swiftspear, I don't think the deck wants more creatures, to keep delver consistent, and its a worse 1 drop than nacatl or delver, so it wouldn't be replacing any.
Match 1, 2-0, I rolled over an esper delver build who couldn't flip his delvers both games.
Match 2, 1-2, Played against u/b faeries with main deck chalices. Lost two games of t2 chalice on one, without disruption to stop it, and then not being able to remove it through his counter magic. Tough match up I think.
Match 3, 2-0, Beat birthing pod quite easily with quick threats, burn for their mana dudes, and counters for their scary stuff.
Match 4, 2-0, UR delver. He had to mull low game 1, and game 2 had a slow draw. Pressure from Goyf + Nacatl left him tapping out to let me cruise and hold up counter magic to fight over his cruises.
Overall I was super happy with the deck, and had a great time playing it. The sideboard was my weak spot, having just thrown it together shortly before playing the deck. I'll have to do some thinking about my meta, but I am thinking about adding more artifact hate, and chalice seems to be a bit rough to play through, and it all over at my LGS right now.
Don't take the name of a deck and use it for another deck and get pissed if someone posts something closer to the original.
The only person mad here is you.
Let's not completely derail the thread with useless arguing about naming conventions.
I've been working on building this interesting list myself, but I only have 3 goyfs at this moment. What would be the best choice for a 4th 2 drop? Maybe an ooze, a young pyro, or a mandrils? Mandrils seems great, but I'm a bit afraid of running 5 delve spells. I assume thought scours would become needed then.
Domain- Cruise is a must in domain zoo. I think it justifise dipping into blue. Ive always thought the best reasons (in order of best) to be in blue is 1. giest, 2. snap, 3 flames. Now you can justify the splash with 4 giest, 3 cruise, 2 snap, 4 flames, you have a real "Aggro" reason to play zoo.
When running Giest, some number of mutagenic or ghor-clan seems good. I'm torn between cast for free/"counter" a bolt on my x/3 creature and uncounterable trample/ random beater on an empty board.
I would say the biggest offender for me is abzan the matchup. This lists game plan is to be extremely aggresive while disrupting the opponent, but I can't come up with cards to board in that really keep the pressure on abzan, while making their life harder. There's always the classic blood moon, and I've been toying with huntmasters for a more grindy sideboard game, but would really prefer more ways to 1 for 1 rhinos/finks without the opponent gaining the life. Previously I was running flashfreeze for that, but I took it out due to tasigurs being everywhere. Maybe it's still good enough though.
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Porbe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Vapor Snag
4 Mana Leak
1 Remand
3 Disrupting Shoal
2 Spell Snare
1 Forked Bolt
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Island
2 Steam Vents
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
1 Mountain
Can't wait for the report.
Is there anything better than spellskites?
If siege rhino becomes the real deal, I really like tribal flames moving forward, 8 ways to remove a rhino is great, and the extra sorceries helps get goyf big.
Anyone have any experience in beating the new style of pod list with this deck?
I have to agree, with the mana constraints the deck has, just casting him is going to be awkward at times, and being able to cast and haste him will be even harder. I would much prefer a baloth, or even a mandrills in the board to bring in. Dodging abrupt decay is almost nessicary to be worth bringing in against midrange.
Burn player definitely needs to be removing threats, and not just trying to race this deck. I've won so many games where the burn player was unwilling to point anything but a searing blaze at my threats, and when that gets countered, the race swings heavily in my favor.
Good luck at the IQ. Have you made any significant changes to the sideboard lately? The meta feels like it has been shifting some.
I have been toying with the idea of running tribal flames in this deck. The trade off is really, huge amounts of reach VS slightly worse mana, and dropping paths to the sb. I think the only match ups where path REALLY outshines flames is pod and twin, and you'll only be losing access to them in g1. When I was playing a non delver, more counter heavy domain zoo based version of this, I can't tell you how many goyfs and rhinos I burned with flames.
I think I would play something along the lines of:
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Hooting Mandrills
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Tribal Flames
1 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
2 Remand
3 Serum Visions
3 Treasure Cruise
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
2 Flooded Strand
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Grounds
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Forest
1 Island
...with some number of paths in the sb.
Note, 4 goyf would be best, but I only have 3 atm, so Apes are my stand in.
At my LGS U/R delver is still running pretty rampant, so cheesy decks maining chalices to take advantage are a common sight. I'll definitely be packing two grudge in the board next event. The faeries matchup outside chalice did seem quite easy though. The one game he didn't have it I walked over him, and when he did it was the only thing stopping me from easily burning him out.
The mandrills was only drawn once on the night, and he was immediately pathed, so I can't say exactly how I feel about him.
I ran the single Electroylze main deck as a hedge that cycled really. I can't say I was ever really happy to draw it though. I think I'd rather play a third leak or remand over it. As well I ran 4 serum visions, and had games where I felt over loaded on them, making me too slow. I think I'll cut it down to 3 for another pierce or snare.
As for Swiftspear, I don't think the deck wants more creatures, to keep delver consistent, and its a worse 1 drop than nacatl or delver, so it wouldn't be replacing any.
Here is what I ran:
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
2 Flooded Strand
1 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Island
1 Forest
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Hooting Mandrills
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
1 Electrolyze
2 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
4 Serum Visions
3 Treasure Cruise
2 Flash Freeze
2 Negate
1 Spell Pierce
2 Hallow
2 Pyroclasm
1 Forked Bolt
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Boros Charm
1 Spellskite
Match 1, 2-0, I rolled over an esper delver build who couldn't flip his delvers both games.
Match 2, 1-2, Played against u/b faeries with main deck chalices. Lost two games of t2 chalice on one, without disruption to stop it, and then not being able to remove it through his counter magic. Tough match up I think.
Match 3, 2-0, Beat birthing pod quite easily with quick threats, burn for their mana dudes, and counters for their scary stuff.
Match 4, 2-0, UR delver. He had to mull low game 1, and game 2 had a slow draw. Pressure from Goyf + Nacatl left him tapping out to let me cruise and hold up counter magic to fight over his cruises.
Overall I was super happy with the deck, and had a great time playing it. The sideboard was my weak spot, having just thrown it together shortly before playing the deck. I'll have to do some thinking about my meta, but I am thinking about adding more artifact hate, and chalice seems to be a bit rough to play through, and it all over at my LGS right now.
The only person mad here is you.
Let's not completely derail the thread with useless arguing about naming conventions.
I've been working on building this interesting list myself, but I only have 3 goyfs at this moment. What would be the best choice for a 4th 2 drop? Maybe an ooze, a young pyro, or a mandrils? Mandrils seems great, but I'm a bit afraid of running 5 delve spells. I assume thought scours would become needed then.
Thoughts?
When running Giest, some number of mutagenic or ghor-clan seems good. I'm torn between cast for free/"counter" a bolt on my x/3 creature and uncounterable trample/ random beater on an empty board.
I'm thinking a 3/2 muta/ghorclan split?