Thanks for the reply Jaden. I agree that the deck is doing a lot of different things at the same time, but I'm not sure that I agree that it is doing too much. The thing I like about the deck in comparison to other versions of burning vengeance, or even other control decks, is that the deck has the option to cast spells that affect the board turn after turn without running out of gas. As to running more fatties, none really match the power of elesh norn, but I could see running Inferno titan, Sheoldred, Primeval Titan, Grave Titan, Sun Titan, or even myr battlesphere. If I added more fatties, I definately would not go to more than 5, because in reality you only need one per game, and you see most of your deck in an average game.
I'll start off by saying I have not read through the whole thread yet (SO MANY posts), so I apologize if I'm not bringing anything new to the table.
I played a lot of burning vengeance before Dark Ascension came out, so I wanted to pick it up again, but I felt that the humans and mono-green matchups were unwinnable. However, I had the idea that an reanimator/burning vengeance deck could be really good. I threw together a rough 5 color reanimator vengeance list, and thus far it has not lost a match in testing.
This deck moves away from counter spells and pure grinding card advantage towards a more tap-out version. My version does not do well against nihil spellbomb, or grafdigger's cage, but can beat surgical extraction fairly well.
The manabase is very much a work in progress (I'm still not even sure if I want scars lands in the deck), and is most likely the biggest downfall of this deck.
The sideboard is also a work in progress, but I know it will contain 4 mana leak, and some number of ancient grudge and ray of revealation.
I know that faithless looting is a bit of an unconventional card choice for burning vengeance, because of it's negative card advantage, but the huge number of flashback spells played in the deck make it a very powerful enabler. I feel that this is an extremely powerful deck, because of its multiple angles of attack. For example, one-for-one removal is terrible against the deck, because of the only 3 maindeck creatures, but at the same time, most decks (barring UB) cannot beat a resolved elesh norn without a removal spell.
I have not yet tested this deck at an actual tournament, but I feel that it is extremely powerful. Comments and suggestions (or even flame) would be much appreciated.
I'm playing BG aggro. I'm not done testing so I'm not sure that all of my other matchups are as good as I think, but I couldn't get above 50-50 post-board even when i sided in 3 Black Sun's Zenith, 4 Lilliana of the Veil, 3 Naturalize, 2 Distress, and 3 despise. I also tried Phyrexian crusader and perilous myr, but it was still awful. Pre-board, I could not beat Mirran Crusader, or any good draw without the crusader.
Just a quick metagame question. Do you think it would be worthwhile to play a deck at Grand Prix Baltimore that is good in all match-ups except Humans?
With my current brew I cannot beat humans even if i sideboard 15 cards against the deck, but I do pretty well against all other decks. Do you think it would be a good idea to play such a deck?
Their have been a lot of Glissa, the traitor brews running around, and i thought I'd share mine, as it seems a bit different than the ones of seen. Sorry if this belongs in another thread, and Please excuse any bad formatting; as you can see I do not post very often.
Basically, the idea is to grind the opponent out with the deck's combination of aggressive, resilient threats, value cards, and powerful trumps.
Against control, the plan is to draw as many gravecrawlers, and strangleroot geists as possible. These cards are a pain for most control decks to handle efficiently. Otherwise, you have to depend on the 3 garruk's and 2 swords main deck to grind them down game 1, and 2 thrun and 5 garruk's post board.
Against aggro decks, the plan is to stabilize via the cornucopia of efficient removal spells, then hopefully lock them out via glissa ratchet bomb. with the right draw you can race them instead with multiple gravecrawlers and strangleroot geists. As you can probably tell, the deck is heavily skewed towards aggro decks in the main. I have found that humans and delver are both solid matchups in general, but tempered steel is kind of iffy.
Problems, and card choices:
blazing torch is basically just in the deck for it's interaction with glissa. against many cards, the torch is the best way to lock out the game via infinite creature kill. It's also a good way to use up gravecrawler's in a stalemate situation.
4 Glissa: Often you win the game when you have a glissa in play, which is why i have the full 4. I'd like everyone's opinion on playing the full four.
4 Birds of paradise: I'm not sure if they even belong in the deck. Any thoughts?
The kessig matchup: I haven't really tested this yet, but looking at the deck, it seems like a terribly unfavored matchup (though i did win the one match i played). Right now i'm on the mimic vat doom blade plan (mimic vat was really good in the matchup when I was playing Grixis).
0 liliana of the veil: Lilly is a really powerful card, but im not sure if the manabase is solid enough for it. Is it worth the cost to consistency?
0 6 drops: this is probably incorrect. To start, i wanted to keep the deck lean, so that the early game wasn't bogged down with dead cards. I don't have extensive experience with midrange, so I would love advice on this.
0 curse of death's hold: not sure if i need it with all the mortarpods, blazing torches, and tragic slips, but it is really powerful in this meta. \
The mana is also pretty iffy. You will often have to choose between turn 1 gravecrawler, and turn 2 strangleroot geist, which is as big pain. Even worse is choosing between double green and single black. It might be prudent to cut the grim backwoods, but they have a lot of value in gravecrawler stalemate.
So far I have only played 30-40 games with the deck, but it's been pretty solid. Please share your thoughts and suggestions, I again apologize for any grammar, spelling, formatting errors.
Lich is an absurdly bad card for tempo. His ability is not mana efficient at all, and tempo cares about mana efficiency a lot more than card advantage; see vapor snag
Playing Vault Skirge and solemn simulacrum in the same deck is really awkward. For weak cards like vault skirge to work, there needs to be a compelling reason to have it in the deck, especially with all the gut shot floating around. Right now, it just isn't synergistic with the rest of your deck.
What does everyone think of Realms uncharted in 12-post? It seems like fetching vesuva, cloudpost, eye of ugin, and glimmerpost for 3 mana is good. Is it good enough for the deck?
Note, I know nothing about modern, and this is pure speculation. I just want to know whether or not should buy a bunch of these at the 50 cents they are going for.
This is a first draft, with no testing. I'm not sure if its a good idea, or even worth the time trying to make it better, but it seems decent. potential sideboards would be:
I have just recently started to play magic, and I usually open 2 or 3 packs a week. I have made it my goal to open a mythic. So far I have gone 24 packs without opening a mythic. On top of that, I have only opened 5 good rares; phyrexian crusader, mirran crusader, and 2 black sun's zenith. Do I have the worst luck in the world? Or has anyone else had as bad of luck?
Not saying this is tier 1 material here, but mayhaps it could make a solid FNM deck.
Concept
I played a lot of burning vengeance before Dark Ascension came out, so I wanted to pick it up again, but I felt that the humans and mono-green matchups were unwinnable. However, I had the idea that an reanimator/burning vengeance deck could be really good. I threw together a rough 5 color reanimator vengeance list, and thus far it has not lost a match in testing.
This deck moves away from counter spells and pure grinding card advantage towards a more tap-out version. My version does not do well against nihil spellbomb, or grafdigger's cage, but can beat surgical extraction fairly well.
The manabase is very much a work in progress (I'm still not even sure if I want scars lands in the deck), and is most likely the biggest downfall of this deck.
1 forest
2 plains
2 mountain
1 swamp
4 evolving wilds
2 cliffttop retreat
2 sulfur falls
2 blackcleave cliffs
1 rootbound crag
2 glacial fortress
3 darkslick shores
2 drowned catacombs
4 faithless looting
3 tragic slip
3 geistflame
4 desperate ravings
3 whipflare
1 tribute to hunger
4 burning vengeance
4 forbidden alchemy
4 lingering souls
3 unburial rites
3 elesh norn
The sideboard is also a work in progress, but I know it will contain 4 mana leak, and some number of ancient grudge and ray of revealation.
I know that faithless looting is a bit of an unconventional card choice for burning vengeance, because of it's negative card advantage, but the huge number of flashback spells played in the deck make it a very powerful enabler. I feel that this is an extremely powerful deck, because of its multiple angles of attack. For example, one-for-one removal is terrible against the deck, because of the only 3 maindeck creatures, but at the same time, most decks (barring UB) cannot beat a resolved elesh norn without a removal spell.
I have not yet tested this deck at an actual tournament, but I feel that it is extremely powerful. Comments and suggestions (or even flame) would be much appreciated.
With my current brew I cannot beat humans even if i sideboard 15 cards against the deck, but I do pretty well against all other decks. Do you think it would be a good idea to play such a deck?
6 swamp
3 evolving wilds
4 woodland cemetery
8 forest
4 gravecrawler
4 strangleroot geist
4 glissa, the traitor
4 birds of paradise
1 skinrender
2 acidic slime
2 sword of war and peace
3 garruk relentless
3 mortarpod
2 blazing torch
3 ratchet bomb
3 tragic slip
2 green sun's zenith
For my sideboard i have
1 mortarpod
1 viridian corropter
2 thrun, the last troll
3 naturalize
2 mimic vat
3 doom blade
2 garruk, primal hunter
Basically, the idea is to grind the opponent out with the deck's combination of aggressive, resilient threats, value cards, and powerful trumps.
Against control, the plan is to draw as many gravecrawlers, and strangleroot geists as possible. These cards are a pain for most control decks to handle efficiently. Otherwise, you have to depend on the 3 garruk's and 2 swords main deck to grind them down game 1, and 2 thrun and 5 garruk's post board.
Against aggro decks, the plan is to stabilize via the cornucopia of efficient removal spells, then hopefully lock them out via glissa ratchet bomb. with the right draw you can race them instead with multiple gravecrawlers and strangleroot geists. As you can probably tell, the deck is heavily skewed towards aggro decks in the main. I have found that humans and delver are both solid matchups in general, but tempered steel is kind of iffy.
Problems, and card choices:
blazing torch is basically just in the deck for it's interaction with glissa. against many cards, the torch is the best way to lock out the game via infinite creature kill. It's also a good way to use up gravecrawler's in a stalemate situation.
4 Glissa: Often you win the game when you have a glissa in play, which is why i have the full 4. I'd like everyone's opinion on playing the full four.
4 Birds of paradise: I'm not sure if they even belong in the deck. Any thoughts?
The kessig matchup: I haven't really tested this yet, but looking at the deck, it seems like a terribly unfavored matchup (though i did win the one match i played). Right now i'm on the mimic vat doom blade plan (mimic vat was really good in the matchup when I was playing Grixis).
0 liliana of the veil: Lilly is a really powerful card, but im not sure if the manabase is solid enough for it. Is it worth the cost to consistency?
0 6 drops: this is probably incorrect. To start, i wanted to keep the deck lean, so that the early game wasn't bogged down with dead cards. I don't have extensive experience with midrange, so I would love advice on this.
0 curse of death's hold: not sure if i need it with all the mortarpods, blazing torches, and tragic slips, but it is really powerful in this meta. \
The mana is also pretty iffy. You will often have to choose between turn 1 gravecrawler, and turn 2 strangleroot geist, which is as big pain. Even worse is choosing between double green and single black. It might be prudent to cut the grim backwoods, but they have a lot of value in gravecrawler stalemate.
So far I have only played 30-40 games with the deck, but it's been pretty solid. Please share your thoughts and suggestions, I again apologize for any grammar, spelling, formatting errors.
Thanks for reading!
3 day of judgment
4 timely reinforcements
3 elspeth tirel
3 midnight haunting
4 intangible virtue
4 doom blade
4 shrine of loyal legions
2 oblivion ring
3 bloodline keeper
25 land
If you don't want that, look into genesis wave, and green suns's zenith
Note, I know nothing about modern, and this is pure speculation. I just want to know whether or not should buy a bunch of these at the 50 cents they are going for.
here is my idea list
2 terramorphic expanse
8 mountain
10 island
4 grim lavamancer
4 lightning bolt
4 shrine of burning rage
4 preordain
4 mana leak
4 gitaxian probe
2 divination
2 stoic rebuttal
2 slagstorm
3 chandra, the firebrand
3 consecrated sphinx
This is a first draft, with no testing. I'm not sure if its a good idea, or even worth the time trying to make it better, but it seems decent. potential sideboards would be:
4 deceiver exarch
4 shrine of peircing vision
3 spell pierce
or
4 flashfreeze
3 pyroclasm
4 other stuff
Also, spellskite might be better than gitaxian probe in this deck. Any ideas?