MTG Salvation

Quote from Buffsam89 »

Quote from fluxje »

Quote from Yandere Sliver »

That looks abusable.

So instead of saying first, you just say 3 words without any explanation?

Looks like a 4 cmc PW to me, that requires you to have a board presence when you play her. And if its an empty board she doesnt do anything.
'Her ultimate' is an interesting take, but abusable???

4/10 Vivien

In what world would you not have a board for her??

Counters are bad because your opponents need spells!

Are you two siblings or kin?
It seems you two understand eachother but I can't for the love of me figure out what the two of you are trying to say.

Quote from lukey52 »

Wizards just doesn't seem to learn that cost reduction is as broken as fast mana.

Turn 1 mana dork, turn 2 lingering souls, turn 3 flashback lingering souls cast this bam 7/7 flying lifelinker and your lingering souls are indestructible roadblocks.

MTGS forum posters still havent learned that three colour Goldfishing in Eternal formats, never is as broken as it looks in their mind's eye.

Quote from Legend »

Saw a guy wreck a draft with Parhelion. The last play of the final game was attacking with Parhelion. It was a glorious sight. Even the runner up enjoyed it.

Thanks for sharing your wonderfull drafting experience by necroing a 2 month old thread in the rumor mill section during spoilerseason of the next set.

Quote from AtraxianShade »

At least when watching people play physical magic you can try and spot how they are cheating.
(because it is not a matter of "if")

That moment when someone tries REALLY hard to make a joke, but is met by the sound of crickets.
You must be great fun at parties.

Quote from Joban8 »

How is that a melodramatic take? I didn't want counterspell in the set, but I too think the spoilers have been underwhelming thus far. Wotc hyped up the set, emphasizing the point that it's a set for Modern players and includes new/existing cards that will help bolster fledgling archetypes and more or less stabilize the format. Based on what we've seen thus far, the only inclusions that seem likely to make an impact across the board is the horizon land cycle. Otherwise the first half of the set looks like an EDH wet dream with campy nods to old cards and un-tested variations of existing cards that R&D hope will function similar to the card being imitated. Just give us the goddamn original and reprint it into the format. All of these imitation cards with intended-functions are just unknown variables which are as likely to succeed as they are to fail. If the main priority was format health wotc would've just reprinted the cards they have concrete data on rather than taking a shot in the dark hoping their imitations will serve the same purpose. I'm digging the sliver love and bolstering of goblin tribal, but then they waste x slots attempting to make bear tribal a thing and it makes one wonder just what the hell they're trying to do here.

Ok so let me pull this apart for you

1. WotC always hypes a set up. Thats what marketing does, they hype a product. So if for whatever reason a set lets you down, its mostly down to your expectations
2. Continues with the expectations. The first guy I quoted has 'make counterspells great again' as his signature. Counterspells are already pretty damn great, and exactly as pushed as they should be in modern. Yours and his expectations might be of a powerlevel modern never should attain, which means if WotC does not live up to that powerlevel you feel underwhelmed. There are plenty of cards already spoiled that will have impact on modern aside from the sac lands, and plenty that have potential to create new archetypes or see fringe play.
3. The 'sliver and goblin tribal' you refer to is purely there because the set, like EVERY SET since a LONG time, is designed to be drafted. That means for that to happen not every single card should be 'playable' in an eternal format. Its not only nearly impossible, you do not want that to be the case either. Again it all comes down to expectations.

Quote from Huaojozu »

I fail to see how cards like this couldn't be printed in a normal Standard-legal set. I can understand it for commons and uncommons where limited is a factor (though I really wish it wasn't), but I expect Rares/Mythics to clearly be something they wouldn't (re)print in a Standard set. Otherwise, what's the point?

Because you are apparently very bad at assessing raw power level.
This card would be maindeckable in standard, and straight up would win you some matchups when played and draw on curve.
Lets say you would maindeck this in Sultai Midrange, your winpercentage against monoblue, monored AND monowhite shoots through the roof.
Meaning you can just tweak the rest of your deck and sideboard to make it favourable against the control and combo matchups.

Quote from cyberium_neo »

Quote from leslak »

Stoneforge goblin
Not as powerful as nahiri prototype but still somewhat playable

Well this card can fetch a relic and have it ready as soon as turn 3. Dredge can have scary starts but at least this dude can make the post sideboard game a bit more “fair”. Also there are some artifacts that gives benefits for being sacrificed I guess this could be fun with those, with new saheli he is a really good recursion engine I guess.

I don't suppose this would be the best 2cc red creature we're all looking for? O_O

W = Stoneforge Mystic
U = Snapcaster Mage
G = Tarmogoyf
B = Dark Confidant

Some argued Young Pyromancer should be it, but YP isn't as powerful as the other four.

I dont know if this was an honest question or a statement?
In any case the answer would be no.
The 'power' of the other 'power 2' mostly come from them being incredibly high power level in a vacuum. In all 4 cases you have to barely warp your deck to make them function, or they are at least versatile AND powerfull enough to fit into multiple shells.

Young pyromancer is a VERY Powerfull card, it just needs a very specific deck for it to function properly. A deck with cheap cantrips and f.e. in vintage a ton of cheap artifact mana.
Same goes for this card, yes its very powerfull, but you need to run a critical mass of artifacts for it to function at all. Even though the raw power is high.

Quote from Lectrys »

Also, Finale of Devastation is a tutor, just like Chord of Calling is a tutor (that sees Modern play).

https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Tutor. Wiki agrees with you.
I played magic back when the original tutors got printed, and I personally would never call Tinker/Natural Order or even GSZ a tutor. But it might be a thing that grew with time.

About blast zone, we will have to see. I got one thing wrong about the card, namely that it could kill cmc = 0, which would obviously destroy workshop decks.
None the less its very effective against some major legacy offenders, miracles, rug delver, D&T, elves. Dont forget that you can play it on turn 4 and immediately activate it to kill 1 cmc. Aside from stifle, there is 0 counterplay against it.

Edit:
Still about Neoform, I first didnt want to mention it. But even though you say you tested it, it is a 2 card combo deck that you have to seriously warp your deck around for it to work. The entire Griselbrand + Nourishing Shoal shell always has been the lesser variant of Grisel decks. And the big reason for that is that you dont play green cards aside from Nourishing Shoal + whatever fatty. And you can NOT rely on only Neoform for your deck to function.
What you are basically saying is 'hey i have a deck, that reliably has 2 specific cards in the opening 8, plus the mana to cast a G/U spell. In addition I also happen to have 2 other green cards in my hand. And even if I dont have those 2 specific cards my deck will also function normally without them?
I remain skeptical until I see a decklist that won something, be it a modo tourney or top 8 a whatever.

Blast zone is truely a ridiculous card, one that I think never should have seen print. It will probably dominate some eternal formats before it gets banned / restricted.

The rest of your list seems very biased towards having a combo/janky preference. I don't see neoform ever being as good as you make it out to be, Karn is the weakest Karn of the three Karns and without the mentioned combo it is just a bad tutor for 4 mana.
Citadel is a strong card, but 6 mana, might see some fringe play in std and EDH
Finale of devastation is not a tutor, good card but not over the top by any stretch.

Two other cards you have correct though are Saheeli and Lili's triumph. Triumph again is just... Instant speed discard for 2 mana with upsides? K
Saheeli might have impact if it finds a shell.

Definitely not a top 10 list if it comes to impact on formats though.

The legend rule is a state based action and those are checked right before a player would get priority, even before any triggers waiting to be put on the stack are put there. So the duplicate legendary permanents are dealt with before you can even choose a target for the fight (you do that when putting the trigger on the stack). If the death of the legendary permanent causes a "dies" trigger, it joins the group of waiting triggers, so when the SBA checks are finished, it is among the triggers you can order as you see fit, so have it happen before or after the fight trigger. (Though the actual fight will only happen, if the legendary creature is still around to do the deed.)

So in short, first the ETB ability triggers, then the legendary creature dies, then you put the dies trigger and ETB trigger on the stack in the order of your choosing.

Ok, WOTC, you got me. Now just add Tradewind Rider as a reprint and I'll start playing modern.

Quote from idSurge »

Drop the stats (3/2 or something), the effect is super strong (until you whiff and hit a land and an Expedition Map), put the Ninjitsu at 3cmc (1UB), and the actual cast cost at 4.

4 Mana is the big stuff in Modern, its what ends games. Keeping something attacking AND hold 4 mana? Or just hard cast at 5? Nah.

Dude, 2 mana evasive beater into a 3 mana nearly unblockable, uncounterable guy with a relevant body that can randomly win you the game on the spot against some decks sounds like the most frustrating thing ever. I'm not saying that it COULDN'T cost 3... I'm saying it SHOULDN'T cost 3.

Quote from MinaHarcourt »

You will never be happy, will you? Not until you get Cryptic Command for U. It's telling that you are the same people who commented on Censor. If you don't like it, you could always pick up a new game. That's some friendly advice people shared with me a few weeks ago. Or you could try to join the development team and make a good case. Right now, it doesn't seem like you have much of an argument beyond "Muh bluez!". I understand you don't like it, but come up with an argument that goes beyond "I don't like it." Show me why things are wrong. Show me what is broken. Because right now all you come across as is entitled kids who are suddenly finding the real world doesn't listen to the same rules their parents said it would listen to.

This is a decent speech, but the things that are wrong and broken can literally be all found in Standard. You can be the anti-blue guy all you want, but there is clearly a problem right now with current design. They have been making the game so creature focus that we have hit the point where it has become far more boring for most, which is why attendance is dropping and another format was invented in the last 6 months.

The lack of removal, counterspells, and general interaction is so incredibly light that the game is all battlecruiser Magic. We just had bannings to try and make the format more diverse but instead made it less diverse. Those bannings wouldn't have been needed if there were ways to deal with problem cards in the format. Instead all we get is more and more creatures that keep pushing the envelope while we're still just waiting for anything to deal with them or other issues.

Also, stop being so condescending and trolling with your "but muh bluz" because all you are coming off as is a child telling the adults that "this is the way things are and these times are better because it's new" rather than any real arguments. Less hyperbole would be good too. Most people would just like Doom Blade or Miscalculation. You know, basic cards to help keep things in check, not Cryptic for one mana to ruin the game.

Quote from Victor Sant »

Yet another native new planeswalker, at last it now makes sense why the gatewatch will be involved with the Inventors' Fair. Although we still need a reasoning on how he know about it on the first place.

Quote from Victor Sant »

Unles the gatewatch did some self advertisement on their own, there is no way for others to know that it was a doing of the group. The only possibility is that tamiyo spread their stories, since she was the only non-gatewatch, non-enemy, non-stoned planeswalker involved that know about the gatewatch as a group that protect the peace of the planes.

I'm guessing these are all over Kaladesh like the Cirque de Soleil billboards in my town.

Quote from jeremylin »

Quote from MercurialMemory »

Her +1 is really relevant in any meta. In a Standard dominated by Reflector Mages, Sylvan Advocates, and Gideon tokens its even more applicable than it usually would be.

The -2 is, literally, CA. Its hard to ask for more than that.

Ultimate is ultimate. Its fine.

I strongly encourage anyone being overly critical of Lilly's current iteration to go back and re-read the threads on LotV, Domri Rade, and Nissa. Then ask yourself if you *really* wanna be 'that guy.'

The +1 can blank. How is that relevant for a pw that starts at 3 loyalty?
The -2 is only card advantage if you hit a creature. Realistically, you won't have a creature in the yard the first few turns, so you can't even use the -2 except for mill(which is really bad).
The ultimate costs 7 and is underpowered. Mass tokens don't always end the game and this one needs several turns past the ultimate to make them.

It's funny how you say to not be "that guy". Well judging from those past threads, it seems that "that guy" is the general consensus of mtgs. It looks like the general consensus on this card is positive, so what are the odds that all of you are wrong about this card and it ends up being terrible

Your evaluation is different than mine. No harm in that because I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. There will always be a 'glass is half full' camp and a 'glass is half empty' camp and everyone can shape their discussion to validate their stance. All I wanted to do was remind folks that regardless of whether they're a half empty or half full kinda person, the one thing that isn't debatable is the fact that there's a glass with water. In this case, said glass is a planeswalker with three mana worth of water in it. History tells us that is an inherently strong combination, regardless of how we feel about it at face value.

So, what are the odds of us being wrong and its terrible? Well, its certainly a non-zero amount. However, once again, history has shown us that every 3CMC planeswalker ever printed has seen substantial constructed play. I like those odds and I like learning from history instead of repeating past mistakes. But that's just me. To each their own, good sir.

MTGS Rumor Mill never fails to amaze.

One set: "OMG Mythics too powerful **** you Wizards for Mythic rarity and making Magic more expensive"

Next set: "OMG Mythics too weak why is that a Mythic? These uncommons and rares suck! Strictly worse strictly worse strictly worse!"

Then the next set: "OMG this set is too good WTF with the power creep Wizards my wallet is crying!"

And the next: "OMG the uncommons in this set are too good why didn't you make these rare instead!?"

Quote from Singer of White Line »

Quote from clan_iraq »

Remember when the rock paper scissors was control vs aggro vs combo? Remember that thing that once was called 'combo'? Yeah I know there was accidentally some infinite number of tokens splinter something guy, but its been a few years

Pretty much every single combo deck was a design accident, us getting no new combo decks just means that the designers get better at their job. There's no way a designer nowadays would say something like "Let's print this card so you can win on the spot when it's combined with that card! Surely it will be healthy for all formats ever and bring us more sales!"

Lets back up to the part where we define 'better at their jobs'
Not to be a fedora tipping trite game designer spewing buzzwords or anything, but when you stifle emergent gameplay by having an overbearing iron hand until a game is basically paint by numbers, you aren't doing your job well. Some people seem to feel that the best crafted game is one with no loose ends, every stroke masterminded and every position you can play immaculately calculated and balanced by the blue lipped mentat that is R&D. But thats not good design.

Combo is healthy for the game when its balanced- viable and kept in check, and its unhealthy for the game when its either degenerately overpowered or stifled completely

Quote from TequilaFlavor »

Quote from Trivmvirate »

Power level in standard is a completely relative thing. Remember how Desecration Demon did nothing back with Innistrad and now everybody is pissing their pants whenever one hits the field.

No it isn't. Desecration Demon started seeing play after Innistrad rotated in part because the powerlevel of Standard went down (the powerlevel in RTR/Theros Standard was quite a bit lower than the powerlevel in Inn/RTR Standard).

Powerlevel is not "subjective", otherwise people would just "subjectively" play every single card ever released equally in older formats. What you mean - and what I partly agree with - is that powerlevel is, to an extent, based on the format. Some cards like Burning-Tree Emissary or Nightveil Specter will suddenly shine because of a new mechanic (like Devotion).

However, there is an objective powerlevel, where you just ask yourself "what is/are the most powerful card/s that I can "buy" for 2/3/4 etc. mana ?" and I can tell you: A Standard season like Zen/Scars where you had Stoneforge Mystic, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Batterskull, Wurmcoil Engine, Karn Liberated, Spellskite, Mindslaver, Sword of Feast and Famine, Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and Vengevine - just to name a few - had an objectively higher powerlevel than RTR/Theros.

Emphasis mine. You say this like it is a good thing. Two cards you named are so powerful they are Banned in Modern. Making cards that are ban worthy might be fine and all if you think power is the only metric a set's quality should be judged by, but that's a pretty narrow and horrible metric. I've been playing since Revised and I have seen the worse end of power (Urza Block) beyond the game's very inception and it is not either fun or particularly exciting.

Any single metric for judging a set's quality is going to end up in failure. No set is ever going to be that powerful, that flavourful, that resonant. It's the combination of them all that is important.

That or all these wannaba-Spikes need to play way more Limited and relearn the subjective qualities of power. I'm very glad the game isn't designed by those kind of players.