He also listed an Abzan version, which has Lingering Souls in the sideboard. In the maindeck, he has 2x Shriekmaw, which, when combined with his 4x Fiend Hunters, probably gives aggro a lot of grief.
For those of us that regularly read this thread, only (3) is something new and different. (1) and (2) get talked about a lot, and (4) gets mentioned, but doesn't play nicely with Thalia, which Wescoe isn't running anyway. Cloudthresher is interesting though. It curves pretty nicely on T4, but only if you led with an Æther Vial on T1 and have a Flickerwisp in hand. You won't get to keep the Flickerwisp (it won't matter how you order the triggers, because the Cloudthresher will trigger a second time when it reenters the battlefield), but you will get to keep the Cloudthresher. The same trick works more nicely with a Restoration Angel instead, but unless you have access to 8 mana, you're going to need a Vial on 4. Kudos to Wescoe for suggesting Cloudthresher, but it really necessitates having an active Vial, otherwise it will be dead in your hand.
So here's my question then for this build.
Is it even D&T anymore? Because I feel that it is just simply a Deadguy Ale minus hand disruption spells.
Not saying that it isn't cool but it just doesn't feel Death and Taxey.
Declaration in Stone - 1W
Sorcery - R
Exile Target creature and all other creatures its controller controls with the same name as that creature. That player investigates for each nontoken creature exiled this way.
Thoughts? Giving them clues goes well with our mana taxing strategy....
I will be picking up a full playset. It tells Merfolk to get out of here and does help with the Eldrazi horde a bit.
@majiger
Michael Derczo's lists (4x Wingmare in the main) tend to have two of either Wilt-Leaf Liege or Veteran Armorer as a way to help mitigate the one toughness hate. Veteran Armorer can really be a blowout, but it doesn't help against certain hate (e.g. Massacre). It also makes some of your lines awkward (e.g. Do I play this Stoneforge or this Armorer?). One of our users (Frenadol? SwordstoTimeshares?) once called Veteran Armorer and Honor of the Pure a "bandaid." It does something to make the wound a bit better, but sometimes it really doesn't stop the injury from occurring in the first place, and some bad things can happen if that bandaid is ripped off.
If you find your creatures are being outclassed, you can do something to try to fix that. RiP helps with the Tarmogoyf and Gurmag Angler threats. Path to Exile can get big idiots out of the way (which by the way, is great synergy with Leonin Arbiter). Some have suggested Gideon, Ally of Zendikar as a better anthem that isn't removable and an alternative threat, but I think most people have abandoned that idea. Playing more fliers also helps, as it is rare for opponents to have large (fair) creatures that also fly.
By Path you mean running along side StP or instead of? I'm currently running 3 Flickerwisps and 3 Serra Avengers as my fliers. Aside from increasing that to 4 and 4, are there any fliers of note?
@majiger
Yes, that is my overall opinion of the card. SotL is also a card that's also much better in the Arbiter list, as it puts the squeeze on their resources even more. Most of us have moved away from the maximum disruption lists to have a little bit more closing power and/or to decrease the number of 1 toughness creatures in the deck. The Arbiter lists are really rough on combo decks, but once the board stalls in a creature mirror, things get a little iffy.
Thanks for the input.
Are there any good ways to Sideboard for the creature match ups?
I'm currently running 1 WLL and 1 Armorsmith to try and close games but not sure if the Smith is worth the slot.
I've been considering Honor of the Pure since I have a tutor Sideboard but I don't know how viable that would be.
how is the testing going for new stuff like Seagate Wreckage, Eldrazi Displacer and Warping Wail? After having a measure of success (for me anyways) in Philly, I am hesitant to try anything new. Of anything, I really like Displacer at least in theory. If not for anything else its a decent body that doesn't get pounded by Dread of Night. I know you were testing them early Medea, anything to add?
I have been playing a single Seagate Wreckage with decent success. Either I see it and I'm happy to spend the left over mana when I end up flooding, or I don't see it and just play a normal match.
So from what I gather you guys talking about SotL, is that it's pretty bad when taken to an open meta like an Open but is fine for smaller local metas? I am still trying to decide. The guys in my area all have multiple decks but most of the time I see Elves, Fish, Reanimator, Miracles, a burn deck, an eldrazi deck and sometimes other D&T.
Everytime I played or vialed in a SotL, they try and remove it quickly. I'm not sure if it is the 3 power that's scaring them or the fact that they need to brainstorm to dig down. I like it because I'm playing a mana denial Arbiter list but at the same time I don't know if I should just move to a more traditional style.
DeathandCatmix, I gotta say Magus of the Moat is an absolute house from the SB. Love that tech. I'm running 3 in the SB and roflstomping merfolk, allies, kiki chord/Creature toolbox variants. Helped me win a lot of matches I had zero business winning in the modern leagues. Gone 4-1 a few times now hoping to get a 5-0 finish soon.
LOL! Yea there is just too many times where they are stopped dead in their tracks to a 0/3. Having two never seems like enough ( I don't seem to draw them consistently after boarding) and you are tempting me to run the 3rd now! I really appreciate you testing some cards I suggest. I know its not easy to see these kooky cards and take them serious but I appreciate you giving me a chance and also helping validate my experience with this area of deck development! I really hope you get that 5-0!
@Jonathanveedot I am totally on board with Eternal Witness! Its literally the equivalent to Snapcaster in green. I've been working on so many variations of Death and Taxes and I have a list based on abusing the looping value of E Wit. I'm not going to post it for multiple reasons but I will once I have some validity behind it. Also, if you are running my list in the tags, I highly recommend you run the Lingering Taxes list. The Death and Taxes list needs work and curving consideration.
@Everyone Here goes a list I can recommend! I've been sad that I hadn't prepared a red splash for debate in some time and decided to get on that! I think red is very close to being formidable in the format. Blood mooning the opponent is pretty good it turns out!
Any reason for Sunlance in sideboard instead of Lightning Bolt if you are running a W/R list? 6 ways to get red mana, or 10 if you count flagstones, seems enough to use bolts in sideboard over sunlance.
201.3. If an effect instructs a player to name a card, the player must choose the name of a card that exists in the Oracle card reference (see rule 108.1) and is legal in the format of the game the player is playing. (See rule 100.6.) If the player wants to name a split card, the player must name both halves of the split card. (See rule 708.) If the player wants to name a flip card’s alternative name, the player may do so. (See rule 709.) A player may not choose the name of a token unless it’s also the name of a card.
Sea Gate Wreckage was only good for me in WG. You have enough mana to activate it and still be able to empty your hand quickly enough to use it again each or every two rounds. After all it was good enough to get it ghost quartered most of the time
BW has better options with Bob for CA.
In Mono W it's an easy inclusion, it doesn't cost you much to put it in your mana base.
It seems like the game plan with every iteration of the D&T decks is just hold off until your fliers come online and start smashing.
Has anyone ever tried Norn's Annex + Angel of Jubilation?
A friend was looking for a budget version of Ghostly Prison/Worship and that came up. Seems like an interesting lock if they don't have White. Mark of Asylum further reduces the chance of the Angel dying.
Doesn't work unfortunately. Angel say you can't pay life to cast spells or activate abilities. Norn's annex's tax in neither.
Ahh right! My bad. I was excited for an interesting interaction that I missed that. That's too bad.
It seems like the game plan with every iteration of the D&T decks is just hold off until your fliers come online and start smashing.
Has anyone ever tried Norn's Annex + Angel of Jubilation?
A friend was looking for a budget version of Ghostly Prison/Worship and that came up. Seems like an interesting lock if they don't have White. Mark of Asylum further reduces the chance of the Angel dying.
-3 familiar
+2 wall of resurgence
+1 restoration angel
Great work though!
@gabriel_404 congrats!
@chalupacabra I want to see your list and the sb!
I've actually had Familiar doing a lot of work for me people tend to forget what he does and just run straight into it.
The wall is great but I just always want Flickerwisp.
Not sure about another Resto. I've been meaning to test a Wilt-Liege in side as another 4 drop.
Just like Cursecatcher. I love it when people fail to play around that as Merfolk
Restoration Angel, on the other hand, is a 4-of in this meta IMO. Eldrazi can't beat it in the air (whereas they can harass a Flickerwisp with an Eldrazi Skyspawner), which makes it your default finisher to chip away once you have the ground stalled. The fact that its blink effect gives you value makes it incredible.
I will argue that Wall is better than Splicer because the land is a 3/3 haster. Yes First Strike is relevant but I'd rather have an extra land to smash people with because our deck actually doesn't care for lands in the first place.
I run Finks main with 1 Wall with the other 3 Walls in side.
Resto Angel is really heavy in a mono-white build, a GW seems alright though with Noble Hierarch.
So here's my question then for this build.
Is it even D&T anymore? Because I feel that it is just simply a Deadguy Ale minus hand disruption spells.
Not saying that it isn't cool but it just doesn't feel Death and Taxey.
I will be picking up a full playset. It tells Merfolk to get out of here and does help with the Eldrazi horde a bit.
Obviously Lingering Souls tokens get the boot.
All in all it's a white Echoing Truth
Think he'd be useful to get a few draws in?
Too bad he says cast. Would be amazing with Vial otherwise.
What sort of numbers are you talking about when saying to add Resto and Mindcensors? Usually I feel like they are either a 1 or 2 of at best.
@Medea
The Path idea is interesting but I don't know if my meta supports more than 4 removal spells. I frequently side StP out in most games.
By Path you mean running along side StP or instead of? I'm currently running 3 Flickerwisps and 3 Serra Avengers as my fliers. Aside from increasing that to 4 and 4, are there any fliers of note?
It's not something I'd bring against combo by any means.
Thanks for the input.
Are there any good ways to Sideboard for the creature match ups?
I'm currently running 1 WLL and 1 Armorsmith to try and close games but not sure if the Smith is worth the slot.
I've been considering Honor of the Pure since I have a tutor Sideboard but I don't know how viable that would be.
I have been playing a single Seagate Wreckage with decent success. Either I see it and I'm happy to spend the left over mana when I end up flooding, or I don't see it and just play a normal match.
So from what I gather you guys talking about SotL, is that it's pretty bad when taken to an open meta like an Open but is fine for smaller local metas? I am still trying to decide. The guys in my area all have multiple decks but most of the time I see Elves, Fish, Reanimator, Miracles, a burn deck, an eldrazi deck and sometimes other D&T.
Everytime I played or vialed in a SotL, they try and remove it quickly. I'm not sure if it is the 3 power that's scaring them or the fact that they need to brainstorm to dig down. I like it because I'm playing a mana denial Arbiter list but at the same time I don't know if I should just move to a more traditional style.
Any reason for Sunlance in sideboard instead of Lightning Bolt if you are running a W/R list? 6 ways to get red mana, or 10 if you count flagstones, seems enough to use bolts in sideboard over sunlance.
Nope. Sadly.
201.3. If an effect instructs a player to name a card, the player must choose the name of a card that exists in the Oracle card reference (see rule 108.1) and is legal in the format of the game the player is playing. (See rule 100.6.) If the player wants to name a split card, the player must name both halves of the split card. (See rule 708.) If the player wants to name a flip card’s alternative name, the player may do so. (See rule 709.) A player may not choose the name of a token unless it’s also the name of a card.
Mind throwing it up?
Drawing a card? No. Canopy does it at a smaller cost and faster.
Guaranteeing a win on a grindy game? Yes. The re-usable draw effect pushes you ahead if you ever flood out or are in top deck mode.
I still only play 1 though, it doesn't feel like something you want more of.
Ahh right! My bad. I was excited for an interesting interaction that I missed that. That's too bad.
It seems like the game plan with every iteration of the D&T decks is just hold off until your fliers come online and start smashing.
Has anyone ever tried Norn's Annex + Angel of Jubilation?
A friend was looking for a budget version of Ghostly Prison/Worship and that came up. Seems like an interesting lock if they don't have White. Mark of Asylum further reduces the chance of the Angel dying.
I will argue that Wall is better than Splicer because the land is a 3/3 haster. Yes First Strike is relevant but I'd rather have an extra land to smash people with because our deck actually doesn't care for lands in the first place.
I run Finks main with 1 Wall with the other 3 Walls in side.
Resto Angel is really heavy in a mono-white build, a GW seems alright though with Noble Hierarch.