I'm really surprised by the lack of RUG in the top 8. I would have assumed it would have been the natural control foil to Solar Flare =/
Edit: With that being said, there are essentially 8 solar flare decks in the top 16 (That Esper control deck is just Solar Flare without unburial rites, and u know it, lol). I highly doubt a highly inconsistent deck could command 50% of the top 8 and 16, with just mirror matches..et al. especially since it probably only held about 25% of the decks played (just a ballpark number, btw)
Although... one thing about solar flare that should probably be kept in mind, is the fact that although all of those are solar flare decks, many of them are probably built slightly differently. They ranged from tap-out versions with no mana leaks, to permission heavy ones. Since we don't really know what the decklists for the ones that made it through to the top 8, we can't really comment on the viability of Solar Flare as a whole. (Although... if it does end up being essentially the same as the others, and end up only getting to the top 8 via endless mirror matches/jank decks, then we can reconsider). After all, Solar Flare at its very core is a control deck. It has as many tools to deal with virtually anything.
Out of curiosity, why not take a page out of Valakut's playbook and main 4 nature's claims. To some extent, it's almost devastating as an inquisition if played at the right time in the mirror. It can almost even act as a counter in some cases, if you can threaten it while making a play, making them think twice before countering your first spell.
To be honest, I don't play Caw-blade, but I was just wondering, how strong would Thada-Adel Acquisitor be in the mirror (I do play an esper control deck so I thought it would be appropriate here). After all, if you can get one hit with your Acquisitor, you can take their equips or just exile them without playing them. Either way, since Caw-blade needs the equips or their guys are bordering on useless. Even if they do grab one of their swords with their mystics early, you can still manage to take the rest of their threats if you can destroy the sword on the field. The islandwalk would probably also be pretty relevant. Any criticisms?
I wouldn't put too much credence into the results of a single tournament. Remember, after worlds, a lot of people thought that UW was dying after having been beaten pretty badly by all sorts of decks. Now, it's getting close to being one of the emerging, "decks to beat" (albeit with a caw-blade as opposed to classic blue white control). So... I really wouldn't count Valakut out yet, esp. since it is a powerful deck and still has the ability to make its presence felt in any meta.
Although everyone does seem to hate against red decks for being too linear, I'd actually have to say that some of the games I've played as a control deck against KRDW are probably some of the best I've played. Pressure builds up on both sides of the table and pretty much, the first one to make a mistake will end up losing, or at least getting really close. In one game, I made one mistake and got my life dropped from 16 to 3 in one turn. The only reason why I didn't die that game, was because of the lightning bolt he spent on my Jace (small, big one is too expensive) the turn earlier. Tiny, razor-thin mistakes like that decide the game. At that point both sides are actually forced to think out every move carefully even in a linear deck like RDW.
if the sphinx was like... a 3/7 I think it might see play, since it could block a titan and survive, but as is, since it'll die to a titan in combat alone (disregarding the effects of the titans), it's... really not worth it, since u rarely will find a way for it to survive long enough to abuse it.
What makes this matchup so hard? I play a permission build and I would like to get an idea of what to bring in... Obviously Oust should come in, and Flashfreeze seems good vs them right? What about Spell Pierce? Does that help vs them? What are the real problems for UW against RUG?
The thing that makes this match-up so hard, is that virtually every card in RUG can be a threat, both pre-board and post-board (with the exception of pyroclasm if they MB it in an aggro heavy meta). A lotus cobra, in an RUG deck, will tend to be able to pop out a titan on like... turn 4. Oracle of Mul-Daya allows them to tear through their decks, esp. with jace manipulation. With early explores, they gain massive tempo advantages without necessarily losing card advantage, and they also tend to have enormously powerful threats (ie primevil titan, Frost Titan, Raging Ravine) that either pretty much say answer me or die. Even Lightning bolt can be used to threaten your Jace to force you to fateseal the turn he comes out or else lose him to a bolt, especially if you need the cards that the brainstorm would draw you. UW does eventually have an answer to all of RUG's threats, but if UW can't stop RUG from exploding, they won't have the resources or time to answer everything. Not to mention RUG also has access to counters, and will most likely be able to out-counter you since their mana base can put them out of reach of your mana leaks relatively early.
Well, remember, if you're playing Esper colors, you may not necessarily require a 4th turn day. Between Journey, Oust, Disfigure, Doom blade/Go for the Throat, Mana Leak, and Into the Roil, you probably really need the DoJ at 5th turn at earliest. But... with that being said, preordain can help you get there relatively more reliably if you need the 4th turn day.
for me, she usually makes dudes and leaves.
vs aggro: she'll make dudes, eat a bolt, and die.
vs control, i'd much rather have gideon or venser.
Well, against aggro, she creates 3 blockers. If she gets a bolt, you've spent 5 mana for 2 turns and diverged quite a bit of heat off of you. Against aggro that's just fine. Not to mention, if they CAN'T bolt/kill her that turn, you gain life, and then pull yourself out of any immediate danger at that point.
Against control, Gideon isn't very good, since he is forced to turn into a creature where he's very vulnerable to doom blade and condemn. Also, Venser has no immediate impact on the board state when he hits the field, which Gideon, Elspeth, and Jace all do. Against control, I've played Elspeth, ticked her up by 2 and then just let her sit there threatening her ultimate pretty much just blanking everything in his deck aside from grave titan.
I only run one of her, but she is good. In most control match ups, if there is little board presence, you can just play her, tick her up by two, and then pretty much sit back and watch. The only things that she won't be able to stop alone is Grave Titan and Wurmcoil Engine. Sun Titan, Frost Titan, SoJI, Luminarch ascension, ratchet bomb, heck even Kozilek, can all be blown to bits after that. Also, against aggro, she can put a major dent in their plans by coming into play with a minus 2 and creating a wall of blockers. If nothing else, she'll probably buy you a turn or two to stabilize, or force the opponent to overextend themselves and run into a really awesome DoJ.
My deck was essentially UB splashing white for Venser, Gideon, and Day of Judgment mainboard. Celestial Purge sideboard.
Grave Titan plus Venser is amazing but I'll agree its pretty much overkill.
Not having a set of Tectonic Edges is also a huge disadvantage.
Yeah... I actually didn't even have Tectonic edges mainboard considered as part of my mana base. I SB'd it and counted it as if it were a spell in an of itself. (yeah, I know, it's stupid, but.... too fragile of a mana base) It helps that there's only one Valakut in my meta.
What do you mean by too slow? I have never really had a problem with dragging the game to mid-late game where i can just use my awesome Wurmcoil Engines or planeswalkers can take over the game.
U/W/B?!? Does that work? I suppose that it's possible if you run a ton of Dual Lands and Zendikar fetches, but still...
White for removal, blue for counters and Jace, black for hand manipulation, I suppose that could be good, but you would have to get it spot on for it to work at all.
I'll admit, the mana base can be relatively fragile, but the manlands, the scars and M11 dual lands and terramorphic can help stabilize. Although... it also helps that all of my control cards aren't color intensive. Although... technically, my deck is rarely actually an actual UWB deck, it's more like.... "Oh hey! I'm playing against control, let's sideboard so I'm really playing UB with some UW support" or... vice-versa with aggro.
We have Wall of Omens, and yes I do use that over Sea Gate Oracle. 3 mana and for a draw, weaker body, and forced card burn doesn't impress me. I'm not gonna hop on that band wagon, the Wall was heavily playedfor a reason and it still serves its purpose (plus it can't be bolted as well). Some lists (mine as well) als run Tumble Magnet. So among my solid removal (Journey, and DoJ) and Tumble Magnets, along with Gideon Jura, 2 2/2s is hardly a threat. I can tap them either via the magnet or Gideon, and I can block them as well.
Since when are a couple of vanillas a threat to U/W? Then agan, my deck is more creature heavy and aside from certain staples (Gideon Jura, DoJ, one of the Titans) isn't really all that similar to a typical U/W control deck. I don't know about your build, but in mine I'm very rarely threatened by creatures. I've beaten Vamps easily, and can beat Goblins as well, so 2 2/2s is a joke. Mine is tap out control really, light permission, heavy aggro hate, which judging from the popularity of Boros, Vamps, Elves, and Goblins, isn't really a bad thing. If you'll notice, a lot of cards from Scars are more aggro oriented. Myr, Infect, Knights. I'm thinking the time for U/W is coming again, because as far as aggro matchups are concerned, you can't beat U/W.
I normally find that any SGO I run ( don't have WoO so I can't try that) ends up being killed pretty fast, since that's one of the few targets UB removal has. (Granted they always seem to be able to save 6 Doom Blades for my one Sun Titan, or... at least it feels that way)
Also, the reason why I said the two 2/2s were a problem was because in a UB UW war, everything comes down the card advantage. If UW is forced to expend 2 cards to kill Grave Titan and then the rest of his little guys, UW is still behind one card, which can make a difference over the time of a close enough game, and if UW DOESN'T answer the little guys, it's still a clock. Against normal aggro, trading 1 for 1 is fine since aggro isn't getting CA out of the deal, and you are holding back their tempo which is great for control. In a control mirror, the question switches from tempo to CA, and answering a Grave Titan with more than one card is a great way to lose it.
Edit: With that being said, there are essentially 8 solar flare decks in the top 16 (That Esper control deck is just Solar Flare without unburial rites, and u know it, lol). I highly doubt a highly inconsistent deck could command 50% of the top 8 and 16, with just mirror matches..et al. especially since it probably only held about 25% of the decks played (just a ballpark number, btw)
notice earlier i said "tap-out" versions. Which was what Medina's definitely was. control=/=permission
Edit: so... in other words, what Dark Angel666 said. (srry, didn't see that before I typed this)
The thing that makes this match-up so hard, is that virtually every card in RUG can be a threat, both pre-board and post-board (with the exception of pyroclasm if they MB it in an aggro heavy meta). A lotus cobra, in an RUG deck, will tend to be able to pop out a titan on like... turn 4. Oracle of Mul-Daya allows them to tear through their decks, esp. with jace manipulation. With early explores, they gain massive tempo advantages without necessarily losing card advantage, and they also tend to have enormously powerful threats (ie primevil titan, Frost Titan, Raging Ravine) that either pretty much say answer me or die. Even Lightning bolt can be used to threaten your Jace to force you to fateseal the turn he comes out or else lose him to a bolt, especially if you need the cards that the brainstorm would draw you. UW does eventually have an answer to all of RUG's threats, but if UW can't stop RUG from exploding, they won't have the resources or time to answer everything. Not to mention RUG also has access to counters, and will most likely be able to out-counter you since their mana base can put them out of reach of your mana leaks relatively early.
Well, against aggro, she creates 3 blockers. If she gets a bolt, you've spent 5 mana for 2 turns and diverged quite a bit of heat off of you. Against aggro that's just fine. Not to mention, if they CAN'T bolt/kill her that turn, you gain life, and then pull yourself out of any immediate danger at that point.
Against control, Gideon isn't very good, since he is forced to turn into a creature where he's very vulnerable to doom blade and condemn. Also, Venser has no immediate impact on the board state when he hits the field, which Gideon, Elspeth, and Jace all do. Against control, I've played Elspeth, ticked her up by 2 and then just let her sit there threatening her ultimate pretty much just blanking everything in his deck aside from grave titan.
Yeah... I actually didn't even have Tectonic edges mainboard considered as part of my mana base. I SB'd it and counted it as if it were a spell in an of itself. (yeah, I know, it's stupid, but.... too fragile of a mana base) It helps that there's only one Valakut in my meta.
What do you mean by too slow? I have never really had a problem with dragging the game to mid-late game where i can just use my awesome Wurmcoil Engines or planeswalkers can take over the game.
I'll admit, the mana base can be relatively fragile, but the manlands, the scars and M11 dual lands and terramorphic can help stabilize. Although... it also helps that all of my control cards aren't color intensive. Although... technically, my deck is rarely actually an actual UWB deck, it's more like.... "Oh hey! I'm playing against control, let's sideboard so I'm really playing UB with some UW support" or... vice-versa with aggro.
I normally find that any SGO I run ( don't have WoO so I can't try that) ends up being killed pretty fast, since that's one of the few targets UB removal has. (Granted they always seem to be able to save 6 Doom Blades for my one Sun Titan, or... at least it feels that way)
Also, the reason why I said the two 2/2s were a problem was because in a UB UW war, everything comes down the card advantage. If UW is forced to expend 2 cards to kill Grave Titan and then the rest of his little guys, UW is still behind one card, which can make a difference over the time of a close enough game, and if UW DOESN'T answer the little guys, it's still a clock. Against normal aggro, trading 1 for 1 is fine since aggro isn't getting CA out of the deal, and you are holding back their tempo which is great for control. In a control mirror, the question switches from tempo to CA, and answering a Grave Titan with more than one card is a great way to lose it.