MTG Salvation

Wow, Courser Of Kruphix is badass. And any excuse to play mono green is a good enough excuse for me. I've seen a few Mono green devotion builds but none were really tickling my fancy. Not that this one does, but IDK, it's here.

I hope I did this right. It should be a pinkish "Live" and an olive "arrhea", as one word, "Livearrhea".

Livearrhea

Quote from Kollegah

Play Chandra, if you reach her ultimate you win and it should not be to hard to protect her with that much removal. Also cut trooper and blade of the legion, they do just not what you need (the trooper is maybe SB when opp sides his removal out, but playing a 4drop that doesn end the game and dies eot is just not what a control deck wants).

Gideon is also a good thing in that kind of boros deck, he is resilent and beats very hard.

Yeah, the Trooper and Tajic were just kinda there as placeholders more or less. I definitely love the idea of Gideon, I totally forgot about him. He's that hard to kill, midrange guy I was looking for.

I actually had Chandra in there and she just never quite did much. Her damage was neat, but never really felt worth 4 mana. And the card draw was cool, but being forced to use the card that turn sometimes was a pain in the ass. But IDK, maybe as a 1 of, if not just to fetch back Pheonix and what not.

@RedKid: Thanks for the link, there's definitely some cool ideas. I like Pheonix in there for sure.

This particular build kinda sucks, but I wanna see some kinda R/W Control thing work.

I personally love it. I love goofy "infect-like" creatures. where you can hit it with 2 pump spells and it's enough to end the game. Sure it "dies to removal" and all that usual rot, I get that. But sometimes it doesn't. I think with just a lil common sense most people could figure out when a good time is to try and push for the big swing.

Too bad we don't have Might Of Oaks in standard.......

Quote from BbearZ

We don't think it's French. Most of us come from French metas though and our critique comes from playing the french format. Also you definitely should be playing Sylvan Safekeeper. I don't know about your meta but its very good at protecting your dudes.

Thrun isn't really played as straight up aggro. He needs more than that. Land denial and taxing cards are usually complimented with Thrun.

Ezuri is also a very viable commander. Although you might have to switch to elf tribal for that.

I totally wouldn't deny that Thrun and Ezuri are both great generals. But you yourself are saying that they're for a different style of deck. And that's sort of what I was trying to say as well. I definitely don't want to just play an entirely different deck. I wanted to stick to this deck and look for ways to improve it.

As far as straight up min-range aggro goes. I can't really think of anything better than Silvos for what this deck is trying to do. The deck is more or less meant to be played like any other aggro deck. No frills, no fancy combos, just plain aggro.

I do definitely love the idea of Sylvan Safekeeper though. I'll totally find room for him.

And I totally appreciate the input so far. I just think Silvos as a general is better than people are giving him credit for. And for what this deck is trying to do, I think he fits.

Quote from Seba

I think we need to call these lands, the disappointment lands.

I LOVE this idea and it's what I'll call them in my area.


I mean, I totally understand what they're trying to do, but still.....it sucks.

I think that's the big difference we're having here. I'm totally not playing French and seeing a TOTALLY different meta. I just play my friends at our local shop and on MTGO, neither of those places use the french list. There's really not to much counter heavy control decks in either place. I'm not sure why people still think this is french list though as I definitely said it wasn't right on that first part of the thread.

I see stuff like Slivers, that WBG Goat that like does something with the grave, Thraximunder and the like. Like other mid-rangey kinda deals. I mean sure the occasional Grand Arbiter deck comes up, but mostly mid-range stuff.

And the deck fairs pretty well against those.

Aside from Thrun, were there any other mono green generals you'd like to see other than Silvos? Or is Thrun kinda the only other AGGRO mono green general. Looking through Gatherer, I didn't really see anything that caught my eye.

At least the Scars lands (I don't remember anyone complaining about them personally) had a good chance to not come into play tapped on the turns when they were most needed.

That these ALWAYS come into play tapped AND take up 5 rare slots really makes me not wanna touch a pack of Theros. With my luck, I'm just gonna end up cracking 6 of these as my rare at the pre-release.

I don't know, I think we're really underestimating how much "come into play tapped" suuuuucks on a land. They're just slightly better than guildgates and they take up 5 rare slots.

I'm definitely not looking forward to this upcoming standard rotation. Especially after getting a look at these.

Quote from Clucky

I will second this notion. Sylavn Library is my #1 green spell in the game. Since your playing 20+ creatures Survival of the Fittest also needs to be on this list.

I think people are raising their eybrows over Silvos, Rogue Elemental because this is the 1v1 forum. Generally people like to choose 1v1 generals that are low CMC and have a nifty, game-changing effect or who offer a powerful, hard to disrupt wincon. Silvos is kinda vanilla, being a 8/5 with trample and regen for 6CMC. In most 1v1 players eyes he's no different from like Kodama of the North Tree or one of those vanilla Legends generals. This isn't to say you shouldn't play him, but rather to give you some insight on the responses you have been receiving (and will receive).

Secondly I agree with bbearz about the Moxen. Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond require you to discard a card. Unless you have a very strong and consistent turn 1 or turn 2 play (which you don't really), you would be a lot better of just replacing them with mana dorks or ramp spells. These will save you an extra card while netting you the exact same effect in most scenarios. Also no Mana Crypt in you list? Card seems like an include in any list with a 6CMC general.

Much thanks for the input! I will totally try and find room for Survival,Library and a Mana Crypt, I hadn't really thought of those. I still love and disagree about the Moxen though. There's tons of things for it to ramp into and at 0 cc, it let's you play that card THIS turn, not tap out for ramp and play it next turn, which seems pretty relevant. I can't really think of many times where I drew it early and had absolutely nothing that I wanted to drop with it or felt like I would have preferred it was a mana dork. I mean sure, sometimes it's not the card you want but I can't imagine wanting a mana dork in it's place, even though I fully understand how a dork can be better in some scenarios, the speed of the mox seems worth dropping a less useful card.

As for Silvos, I really don't know what to say that I haven't said. The deck's main focus is "aggro". Not going for some weird combo, or mill, or control, or hand disruption, or whatever. I personally can't really find any other mono green general that can be as aggressive and hit as hard as he can. I think people are kind of underestimating 8 power, trample and regenerate. It kills faster than Thrun, has some amount of resilience to removal and gets over chump blockers. Sure it's a pretty simplistic general, but he's not really meant to do much other than just be big and hit hard like the rest of the deck.

Do you think I should just change the commander to Thrun on the list? I'm still going to keep Silvos, but what's a more popular commander that would fit the deck as a placeholder just to keep every comment from being "Why Silvos"?

@Skankstar: I do totally understand the difference between a 1v1 decklist and a multiplayer one. I figure multiplayer decks can't rely on straight aggro as much, probably have to have more board wipe kinda stuff, more stuff with "each opponent" in it.

So yeah, this would be more of a 1v1 deck IMO. And that's generally how I play it.

Coalition Relic is kiiinda slow. But at very least it's 6 mana on turn 4 to drop Silvos. Who again is 6CMC not 8, I'm not sure where you got 8. Or just generally something else to to ramp faster into the other 5-6 CC stuff.

True on Cavern though, I guess I could drop a forest for it. There's kind of a lot of Elementals that I'd want to go uncounted so yeah I can totally see that.

I think Silvos is really underrated as a general. At 8 power with trample, he's thee hardest hitting general monogreen has to offer. His 6 CMC is really easy to get to in monogreen and while he's not "hexproof", the regenerate does still offer decent resilience to removal.

Thrun is cool too, and he has his own style of deck that's great. I'm sure there's stuff Thrun can do that Silvos can't and decks that Thrun is better against than Silvos. But I dig that Silvos is twice as big, doesn't need anything else to give him trample so he's not just huge and still being chump blocked by tokens and can pretty easily kill the first time he swings with stuff like Overwhelming Stampede, Berserk and other pump used in conjunction.

So I'm sure there's other monogreen generals that are also great in their respective decks. But as far as just a basic monogreen aggro, I think Silvos is just dandy. He's great by himself and he supports the strategy if just being aggro.

@Bbearz: I actually did cover a bit more about deck preferences, weaknesses and what not but I think some people may have trouble reading the first post as another user misread Silvos's abilities and CMC as well. On my end there's a brief description of the deck below the decklist. As well as some explanations for why I chose Silvos and the general idea of what the deck is trying to accomplish.

Playtesting the deck, it at least wins more than it loses. It fairs pretty well against decks not running blue. And can usually out aggro most other decks. Stuff like Bribery, Control Magic and hardcore counter magic can suck but it's not an auto-loss or anything.

I'm not sure what you mean by "too many themes" though. It's just ramp and aggro. What other themes do you feel the deck has?

I figure the Mox's are just more ramp. Heh, I don't know how else to explain the whole Silvos thing. While he's not literally the entire focus of the deck in the sense that if someone played a Meddling Mage on Silvos that I'd just have to scoop it up. He's still big enough to be a serious threat himself. And while it's not literally the one and only thing the deck is trying to do and the deck can function after he's removed or before he drops, he can win the game fast when he does come out and the faster you can ramp into him the better.

I mean, it's not as if the Mox's can ONLY be used to cast your general, so I'm also not really sure where you're coming from with that. I rarely regret dropping an excess pump spell or whatever else I can't use at the time to have a free (yes I'm aware it costs cards and isn't literally free) extra mana on turn 1-3.

Harmonize and Soul's Majesty definitely seem interesting. I'll try and find room for them as well.

Thanks for the feedback so far! Hopefully now that things have been explained a bit more we can focus more on constructive conversation!

Quote from masd

First, you are asking for feedback in a forum where EDH with the french banlist is mostly talked about and refer to it as the "french crap" ... that's plainly wrong and a bad starting point if you ask me ...

About the deck:
- I will max out dorks in 1v1 situations, that's means that I would make room for Elvish Mystic, Birds of Paradise and Boreal Druid.
- Your deck has a important ramp factor in it, but some creatures IMO just doesn't make the cut: ESG, Dungrove Elder, Wolbriar Elemental, Kodoma, Primalcrux, they just aren't good enough and you can get better goodies in their places.
- Where is Cavern of Souls, arguably one of the best lands in the format??
- I wouldn't include too many buff effects. They are OK in decks like Thrun who doesn't have evasion, but Silvos (who I guess is your main wincon), has trample, and also regenerates himself.
- Lignify is one the best green removals of the game.
- More creature tutors (GSZ, Worldly Tutor, Summoner's Pact) to add more consistency.

This is ridiculous now. I wasn't attacking anyone personally, I was just saying that I personally prefer the other list. It's just a list.....

Nevertheless, I updated the OP again in hopes to get people to focus more on actual content rather than just BS. And thanks for actually including content in your response!

I do dig the mana dorks, but I was finding that the 1 mana rampers like Dorks, Nature's Lore, Three Visits and what not, we're clogging things up a bit and just kinda lame after the first few turns. Where as the larger rampers like Gaea's Touch, Coalition Relic, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Rofellos etc.... were more welcome even midgame and of course did more early game.

Yeah, I was hoping to maybe get in a handful of better creatures in here. I can agree the Dungrove Elder, while cool, might not be exactly what we need. I totally love Primalcrux and Wolfbriar though. If anything those are in the top 3-4 guys I wanna see drop on turn 3-4. With the ramp, Wolfbriar can pump tons of wolves fast and drop power on the board that's always above the curve. And Primalcrux is pretty big by himself and just gets nuts with anything else. Aside from that though, what were some other creatures you might suggest? I feel like there's probably other 5-6 casting cost badasses out there that I'd love to run in here but I can't think of anything else.

Cavern is cool, but I figure I have waaaay too many different creature types in here to really work it. It just feels like all too often it'd just tap for a colourless and do nothing else.

And totally, I was thinking of Lignify and dropping just a teeny bit of the creature pump. Summoner's Pact would be cool too since I wouldn't have to weight a turn like I would with Wordly Tutor.

Although again, while Silvos is a BIG part of the deck. I hate saying he's a "main wincon" as the deck can definitely win without playing him and the moment you imply anything about a "main wincon" all you'll get is replies from people explaining how your main wincon can fail. While the deck can often win through him coming through with General Damage fast. And it's a definite consideration in any game. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's my "main wincon".

Thanks much for being the first real feedback!

Quote from BbearZ

He was just wondering why it was competitive. People have different concepts of it. I don't really see why you assumed he was negative when he asked a simple and fair question. You put a list. Said you liked mono green aggro. How do we infer that this list is going to be competitive? You didn't list any preferred critique with particular match ups or things you would like to work on. You didn't go in depth on strategies or weaknesses that your deck has. When he asks why this is competitive, I feel it is a very fair question.



Oh the irony.

Fair enough. It's just that I looked over a few other decks that were also labeled competitive right here on the first page and a couple of them had just about as much information as I provided for their deck and they weren't asked the same question. Last time I listed it "Duel Commander" thinking that just meant it was a "Commander" deck and that was wrong too.

I listed it "Competitive" because while I understand it's not flawless, I'm also just not trying to go for a "Casual" EDH deck. It at least wins a good bit more than it loses and has been able to play a lot faster than a good bit of the decks I've played it against. It feels competitive enough, as far as EDH goes.

I figured going into some long description to describe how to play a pretty basic aggro deck seemed kinda silly. You play ramp on the first few turns, play something big turn 3-4 or so, hook it up with pump and hope to win through damage. And again, it seemed a few other decks labeled "competitive" didn't have a play by play either. I guess I'll update the OP a bit.

As for not liking the French Ban list, it's just a local thing. I fully understand that stuff like Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mind Twist and what not could lead to some degenerate plays but that's part of the fun of EDH imo. You're still only running 1 each of any of those in a 99 deck, so it's not like everyone is getting stupidly consistent broken plays. No one goes by it here and no ones really running anything lame like the deck just based on getting out Hermit Druid and comboing off on turn 2.

Anywho, I was kinda hoping to get actual constructive feedback on the deck itself rather than my presentation of it.

Quote from SkankStar

Why is this listed under competitive?

Is there some specific rule about what does and does not fall under "competitive" that I've overlooked. Or are you just one of those guys that posts to offer nothing other than just being negative?