- JollyTheOctopuss
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Member for 19 years, 1 month, and 26 days
Last active Wed, Jan, 17 2024 23:22:51
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UsaSatsui posted a message on [[M14]] Mill is gonna be a thing?Mill has never been a "thing". Why should it start now?Posted in: New Card Discussion -
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Gerrard's Mom posted a message on [[M14]] Wolves (Standard)oh man "Hungry Like the Wolf" totally came on shuffle while looking at this listPosted in: New Card Discussion -
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NotMyName posted a message on [Primer]Mana Sink WerewolvesPosted in: Standard ArchivesMANA SINK
WEREWOLVES
Lycanthropy Awareness Day
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Introduction
Table of Contents
1 Introduction
2 The Core
3 Sideboarding
4 Example Decks
5 Strategy
6 Match Ups
6 Bad Cards
Mana Sink Werewolves is a tribal aggro deck that uses a light stax theme to restrict the opponent, while playing werewolves that will now reliably transform thanks to it's many mana dumps and flash creatures. It is primarily a green deck, with a heavy white splash for Thalia and other tax effects, and a light red splash to expand the creature base. I developed the archetype two months after the release of dark ascension in an attempt to get around werewolves' weakness, the text at the bottom of each werewolf card that reads "At the beginning of each upkeep, if no spells were cast last turn, transform CARDNAME," that many like to call the werewolf trigger. This weakness is why all the one mana three power creatures aren't broken in half. This archetype is built around the concept of the werewolf trigger, using mana dumps and instants to play without casting spells, and tax effects to stop the creatures other weakness, the text "At the beginning of each upkeep, if a player cast two or more spells, transform CARDNAME."
Why you might want to play this deck:
- Werewolves are awesome
- You enjoy suspense
- You hate control decks
Why you might want to avoid this deck:
- Werewolves are too awesome for you
- You have a bad sense of priority
- Your meta is more than 50% aggro
The Core
The core cards of the deck are as follows:
”Core”Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards 3 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Cavern of Souls4 Wolfbitten Captive
4 Reckless Waif
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Wolfir Avenger4 Selesnya Charm
- Wolfbitten Captive: This guy is a machine. He will often transform immediately if cast turn one. He is an early beater, a mana dump, and a win con all in one little package. He is rarely blocked in the early game due to his self pump, allowing you to get some reliable early damage in. His transformed state has a massive self pump, making him a 6/6. A neat trick you can do is activate his pump in response to the werewolf trigger, and then activate the other pump ability once he is transformed. This will make him an 8/8. He is probably the single best card in the deck.
- Kessig Wolf Run: The mana sink. This little gem is where all that unused mana goes every time you want to transform.
- Reckless Waif: She's costs one and transforms into a 3/2. A one drop that threatens a werewolf trigger.
- Mayor of Avabruck: He provides a constant buff to most of the decks' creatures, and is a massive token producer. He provides an insane amount of advantage over the course of only a few turns. His transformed side pumps the tokens he produces, so they are essentially 3/3's. A two drop that threatens a werewolf trigger.
- Thalia, Guardian of Thraben: Best stax effect in the deck. Pumped by mayor, good beater, and makes it difficult for an opponent to cast two spells in the same turn. The first strike is very relevant in a creature heavy meta, and the cost increase she creates is a lesser form of protection from removal spells. She can stonewall a number a creatures, and is our last defense against rancor.
- Selensya Charm: Versatile. Gets rid of big things, makes small things, or makes small things into big things. Solves two problems the deck has at instant speed. It can be used to create a knight on the opponent's end step, so you can still cast a creature while flipping your werewolves. It can exile any creature that is over the top. It can be used to save a creature from a burn spell, or push in some extra damage. If you have two of these there are a number of interesting synergies. You can use the first to pump your opponent's creature, and then use the second to exile it. You can use the first to create a creature at instant speed, and the second to pump it to stonewall an opponent's creature. The most versatile card in the deck by far, giving us a number of options at instant speed.
- Wolfir Avenger: Flash is amazing. Doubly so with regenerate. A turn two mayor, followed by flashing this in will quickly end a game. The built in regenerate is incredibly useful right now since incinerate and friends aren't here.
Strong Cards
- Huntmaster of the Fells: The werewolf Swiss Army Knife. He threatens a werewolf trigger, makes tokens, gains life, kills creatures, shocks opponents, eats babies, makes dinner, cleans the house, does your homework, and a bunch of other neat things too!
- Full Moon's Rise: It can counter supreme verdict. It grants trample and a buff. Anti control, anti tokens, and tribal buff. It's good enough, despite only affecting werewolves to be a deck staple. It is the only reason to play werewolves outside of the werewolf trigger. Ignore the pump though, as it doesn't provide nearly enough advantage to make this gem playable. It's the regenerate that makes it great.
- Restoration Angel: She's a flash creature, so you can transform your wolves. She is also a nifty way to dodge removal, and an evasive beater. a neat trick is flashing her in to rest Mayor of Avabruck to his day side to give Thalia a boost. It happens more than you would think.
- Ghor-Clan Rampager: An uncounterable pump spell, that also grants trample, and doesn't count towards your spell allotment. Discarding it for the pump is an ability, and not a spell, so discarding it will allow you to use some mana, and still allow your guys to flip. This should be used with carefully though, as your opponent can always cast a removal spell in response, not only preventing your guys from transforming, but getting nice two fro one off you. He can always be cast as a creature too, which is nice.
- Dryad Militant: She's an efficient beater that hoses flashback, a problem mechanic for werewolves.
- Grove of the Guardian: Late game reach, mana dump, wrath dodger built into one. It is worth the slots as it is a land, so nothing is really being lost.
- Gavony Township: Mana Dump. A pretty good one too. Placing a +1/+1 counter on all your creatures adds up quickly over the course of several turns. The counters stay on werewolves when they transform, making them even larger.
- Daybreak Ranger: Kills fliers, and then becomes a big dumb beater. The off color activation does require a slight splash, but really is worth it to be able to selectively off utility creatures almost at will.
- Kruin Outlaw: For killing token decks, nothing beats the terror of Kruin Pass.
Sideboarding
This section is under development, so here is a list of universally good sideboard cards:
- Pithing Needle: Generic Sideboard Card
- Skullcrack: Why do people think life gain is sophisticated? Too much philosophy, just crack their skulls for trying.
- Rest in Peace: Overpowered graveyard hate.
- Sundering Growth: Generic Sideboard card. Naturalize with populate.
- Ranger's Guile: Removal protection.
- Moonmist:This card is good against more aggressive decks. It is a fog effect that will flip all are humans. Against more aggressive decks will still need to play out your hand quickly, but your opponents creatures will likely outclass yours, and if they are clever will only cast a single creature each turn, making it a little harder to transform everyone. This will put you one the defense. When on the defense moonmist is much better because the fog will stop all damage their creatures do, which allows you to kill most their creatures, because yours still do damage. This will also keep your life total up against them which is important in these match ups.
I will update this when I have proper Match Up data to know which holes need to be plugged vs which decks.
Example Decks
Here's mine (will update later):
"ThisIsNotMyName's Werewolves"Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Lands 25
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Rootbound Crag
5 Mountain
2 Forest
2 Plains
Creatures 23
4 Wolfbitten Captive
4 Reckless Waif
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Wolfir Avenger
4 Huntmaster of the FellsOther 12
4 Selensya Charm
4 Soul Tithe
4 Full Moon's RiseSideboard
4 Pithing Needle
4 Sundering Growth
4 Rest in Peace
2 Ranger's Guile
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thaben
Strategy (This section is under much needed expansion.)
Mana Sink Werewolves is an odd deck with an odd strategy. It aims to play werewolves, which threaten the werewolf trigger, which cause the opponent to play in a predictable pattern, which this deck is designed to take advantage of. The moment we place our first Reckless Waif, or Wolfbitten Captive, our opponent will both ration spells, and cast one every turn. We exploit this by basing our own tempo on how they are rationing their spells. The early game is fairly straight forward. We cast our one drop, observe their response, and play just slightly faster than them to apply pressure. This forces them into a tough spot. They can continue rationing spells, or attempt to catch up with us on board position. As a very general rule, the moment they crack, and stop rationing we proceed to phase two. However, at this point in the game we have a lot of information about what we are up against, and it is wise to use this information to adjust when we go to phase two based off this information.
In phase two, the midgame, we will start abusing mana sinks and EOT creatures to continue applying pressure, while simultaneously forcing them to cast their instants on our turn, and stuff on their turn. This will result in them casting two spells per draw phase, meaning that they will run out of cards in a number turns approximately equal to two thirds (because of lands) the number of cards left in their hand. This information is used primarily to set up for the end game. We need to use this time to deal with their problem creatures, and anything else that might interfere with an alpha swing. If, in this time, they find way to stabilize, you will have drawn a few more cards, and should be able to repeat the process.
When they finally run out of spells to cast, the werewolves will all trigger in unison, and you can safely swing for anywhere between ten and thirty damage. On average, you will finish off the game in two turns time, with close to zero chance of your opponent recovering. At this point in the game it is fairly safe to say you won. This is also why the deck doesn't run Moonmist main, or Immerwolf at all.
Match Ups
Zombies (RB) 40-60.
This is a tough one only because of how aggressive they are. It is winnable, but only if they have a sluggish start.Zombies (GB) 20-80.
This one is completely unwinnable as far as I can tell. The tag team of Gravecrawler and Rancor are what do us in here. They provide enough fuel to keep our werewolves week almost indefinitely.
R/x Aggro 20-80
R/x Aggro is another almost unwinnable matchup. They kill us before we can transform almost every game because they can cast a spell every turn, and put enough pressure to force us to do the same. If we do manage to pull it off, they burn our wolves. Pretty nasty Matchup. The strategy here is to play defnesivally, until hopefully our board pressence is just larger than theres, however, this makes it possible to be blown out by Mizzium Mortars.
UW Aggro 30-70
They lack real removal, but their creature quality is much higher than other aggro decks. Against this deck, play defensively, and hope to get a Kessig online. Pretty straight forward.
Jund Midrange 50-50
They got removal, but they have to spend it one our 3/2 one drop, or our 2/2 that can swing for six most games. This match up is pretty even because our creatures flip reliably in this one, and they have no real way to get around our tempo control.
Naya Midrange 40-60
Oddly, this is another match up where you play defensively. They are more of a big aggro deck, so they play more like an aggro deck, which is much harder for us to deal with than a typical midrange deck.
Bant Midrange 60-40
They spend so much time durdling, that that we can usually run them over no problem. When they do someting unexpected (it's bant) it's usually not enough. These matches tend to go long, so Kessig and friends are extra nice here, and Wolf-Bitten Captive really gets to shine.
Reanimator 70-30
They spend way too much time durdling. Just run them over. And then do it again.
UWx Control 80-20
Control? Just kill them. They don't have a chance.
Bad Cards
A lot of cards you might think are awesome don't fit in this strategy. This isn't to say the cards are bad, just that this archetype doesn't want them. Mana Sink Werewolves is built around a few primary principles that allow the deck to function reliably regardless of the werewolf trigger. Stray too far from these principles and the deck succumbs to chaos and worse, the whim of the adversary. I will attempt to explain why a few popular werewolf cards don't fit within the scope of this deck. Remember, this isn't an attempt to insult a card, but an explanation as to why the card doesn't help further this archetype's game plan.
- Instigator Gang: Instigator Gang does two things really well. First, he attacks. Second he makes other things attack better. He does nothing else. Mana Sink Werewolves doesn't want pure attack power. The deck is designed so that each individual piece will increase the likelihood of the werewolves flipping, which puts them so over the top the additional buff just becomes overkill/
- Immerwolf: Immerwolf has three abilities. The first is intimidate. He is a two color card, in the middle of a multicolor block, meaning that Intimidate is little more than flavor text. His second ability is a tribal buff, of the traditional +1/+! variety. I can see how the additional toughness can be useful, but the extra power just isn't really that great. His third ability is an interesting one, and probably the reason most want to play him. Remember that Mana Sink Werewolves is a deck that is designed so that the werewolves transforming is inevitable, and this state being the end game that opponent's will rarely recover from. In this deck, transforming is often synonymous with winning. In that context, I am sure you can understand how his third ability, the prevention of untransforming the werwolves, is meaningless. It is only active after we have already won.
This primer is outdated, and won't be updated. If you find this many years in the future, the card you are looking for is Deep-Sea Kraken. -
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zaj56 posted a message on [[M14]] Mono Green FOREVER (Standard)as a green lover im so pumped for these cards!Posted in: New Card Discussion
witchstalker seems like a good ol'dude -
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Creedmoor posted a message on [[M14]] Mono Green FOREVER (Standard)I'm a fellow lover of Mono Green, and I, for one, welcome our new M14 friends. Scavenging Ooze will hopefully put an end to reanimator, or at least be a big threat, and Witchstalker looks like a fun little pup. Kalonian Hydra looks like it could take the place of a few of your higher costed cards that are rotating. Your deck looks good!Posted in: New Card Discussion -
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kane584 posted a message on MTG Salvation Forums vs. The Battle of Helm's DeepThat's an easy one, MTGSalvation leaders just have to deceive and lie about everything, then ban everyone on top of that.Posted in: The Versus Forum
Those Uruk-Hai won't even have time to get out of their gutters before they are wiped out. -
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Gaea's Regent posted a message on MTG Salvation Forums vs. The Battle of Helm's DeepAll it takes is for the staff to ban all of the uruk-hai, orcs and dunlendings, and it's piece of cake for Sally.Posted in: The Versus Forum
Except, they are morally corrupt, so they sell the site to Saruman and all of his forces get Curse IDs.
Also, Gandalf is Hannes and he never shows up. -
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sirpsychosexy posted a message on THE SPAM-ER's threadWhen I was a kid my best friend's little brother smacked himself in the head really, really hard with a baseball bat by hitting it against a basketball as hard as he could. Which of course sent the bat right back into his head. To this day it's one of the funniest things I've ever seen and that was over 20 years ago. Don't worry though, the kid still has one of the hardest heads I've ever seen in my life.Posted in: the Speakeasy -
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THEBEASTMASTER posted a message on This is one of the most uptight forums in the worldand I think it would be a better forum if you cut down the number of moderators by half.Posted in: Community Discussion
God help you if you actually have an opinion, or make an irrelevant topic on this forum, the pack of moderators will clamp down on your topic like starved wolves and give you the lock with a trademark patronising line in red
For a well behaved community, there are way way too many locks, bans and suspensions. Take a step back and just breathe, is a forum about a collectible card game serious enough that you have to moderate it like a concentration camp?
Trolling the staff and insulting people by making a joke out of the Holocaust is not acceptable. infraction issued - votan -
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jimmyrussles77 posted a message on [[M14]] Scavenging Ooze promoPosted in: The Rumor Mill
Leeched image probably, i dunno.
just wanted everyone to see the promo. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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This deck has no wincon, it's never won a game but tbh it hasn't really lost too many either. The entire focus of the deck is getting to 10-11 mana and then playing Divine Intervention and either Vampire Hexmage or Hex Parasite to remove the counters and immediately end the game in a draw. And boy does this get people angry! I've seen people freak out!
Super simple strat, use your board wipes to stay alive, tutor for the combo pieces, get to 10-11 and then do the thing. There's mass land destruction in there too cause it's always fun playing MLD with Teferi's Protection or just for the hell of it to upset people.
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Damn
1 Go for the Throat
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Depopulate
1 Wrath of God
1 Shatter the Sky
1 Day of Judgment
1 Damnation
1 Cleansing Nova
1 Doomskar
1 Austere Command
Tutors: 17
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Profane Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Scheming Symmetry
1 Mastermind's Acquisition
1 Beseech The Mirror
1 Academy Rector
1 The Cruelty of Gix
1 Coveted Prize
1 Demonic Collusion
1 Dark Petition
1 Increasing Ambition
1 Howling Mine
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Necropotence
1 Teferi's Protection
1 Moat
1 Armageddon
1 Ravages Of War
1 Portcullis
Draw Con: 3
1 Hex Parasite
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Divine Intervention
Ramp: 15
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Dark Ritual
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Pearl Medallion
1 Arcane Signet
1 Grim Monolith
1 Coalition Relic
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Smothering Tithe
12 Swamp
13 Plains
1 Ruins of Trokair
1 Brightclimb Pathway
1 Godless Shrine
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Concealed Courtyard
1 Tainted Field
1 Maze of Ith
1 Command Tower
1 Scrubland
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Crystal Vein
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Fetid Heath
1 Ebon Stronghold
1 Shineshadow Snarl
Commandy:
1 Shadrix Silverquill
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I understand MTG is trying to pull back the power creep and that's fair enough. But now it feels like they're taking us back to the days of Legends with these overcosted and tri-coloured cards that would still barely be playable even if they cost 1-2 less and and weren't so colour intensive. And what's with all the uncommon cards printed as rares?
This next block after Khans better be like Urza's Saga meets Mirrodin with power 9 reprints after all this crap.
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EVERYTHING runs it now and maybe I'm just doing something wrong but it seems really hard to come back from a 4th turn Thrag into 5th turn Resoration Angel. Removal doesn't do much, the huge life swing is really hard to get over and the whole threat of them totally screwing you in combat with an instant speed Restoration Angel puts you in that position of either NOT attacking and just dying to them being more aggressive than you or attacking and dying to them suddenly having 2 extra blockers, 5 extra life and most likely knocking out most of your attackers.
What sucks is that I understand that Thragtusk is "balanced" more or less. But jeez, it just sucks that the format has fallen into the whole "Play this card or lose against this card" thing.
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And hell, I actually hate anime with a passion, but the art on some yugioh cards is just really neat IMO.
Yugioh does sort of have a limited format, although I do totally admit it's REALLY lame in comparison to MTG's limited formats. Hell, it's really lame in general.
Like during the yugioh pre-release they give you 5 packs (I think it's 5) and you have to build a 20 card deck out of them.
There's generally no real cohesion in any given yugioh set. So it's nearly impossible to actually build a solid limited deck with even a semblance of a theme. And since many sets have no removal what so ever, it's entirely possible to win by just playing 1 creature bigger than anything they got and just letting them deck out.
There's also no real structure to these tournaments, they're basically just casual. You get a little paper in the beginning and you have to go around looking for matches and write the results on it. After 1 or 2 games, most people just fill out random names and results on the paper and hand it in for their free pack.
Not to mention that since there's such a large amount of little kids at these events, cheating isn't just a minor issue, it's part of their deck building process. All the time you'll see kids openly trading cards with eachother between decks, not even attempting to keep it discreet. You'll end up seeing decks with 6-7 of the same card and the "Oh, i got like 2 of this card in every pack!!!" excuse.
Which is silly, cause there's no benefit to winning in these tournaments. Whether you lose every game or win every game 2-0 you still only get 1 pack at the end for turning in your sheet.
Hell, I doubt they would. But it would be kinda of cool if Konami attempted to have a more structured limited format. But still, I do admit that yugioh sets are just pretty terrible for limited.
Although I could see it being kinda cool in a "Cube" kinda limited format.
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I'm actually not to worried about the crossover myself, Konami seems pretty knowledgeable about games, I'm hopeful that that could carry over to CCGs.
A lotta peeps were worried that Konami would somehow screw up the banlist or do away with it all together. I think Konami would know enough not to totally piss off the fanbase of one of their biggest cash cows.
And I'm sorta split on my feelings about Yugiohs annoying reprint policy. In some ways it does kinda suck that you'll bust your ass trading/buying to get this playset of 40-50 dollar cards, only to see them reprinted as commons in the next preconstructed deck.
In the same vein though, it is a pain in the ass that the tier 1 deck in yugioh right now is literally well over 1.5k in value. Even the more accessible tier 2 tournament decks are at least close to or over 200 dollars.
I think it'd be a hell of a lot better if yugioh had a rarity system closer to MTG. Instead of like 7-8 different kinds of rares and probably like a less than 5% chance of actually pulling the rares you'd need for decks or even a rare that would at least be decent trade bait.
At least in MTG if you buy 5 packs or so, there's a decent chance you'd get something that'd be worth trading for something you do need.