Control decks, Mirror, games where u don't want more Golems essentially.
Gotcha! Think it's a good idea running him as a 2-of in the sideboard in a 19 land / 3 Pike list? I'm going to be playing in the TCG Diamond Event this weekend and I'm just trying to make the last few changes... might as well post up the decklist I'm thinking of running.
Nice tournament report with lots of good info. I was mainly curious about Attended Knight. I'm actually running Blade Splicer in a similar role right now. It has more powerful synergy with Resto and can block sworded creatures if you don't happen to have a Snag available. Isn't that just better than Attended Knight?
Edit: Sorry if this shouldn't be posted here. Mods please move if there is another place where discussion of these decks belongs.
If you wanted to do this post-M13, I'd recommend starting with something like the following: *Snip*
A Cavern of Souls configuration gives you the option of running Zealous Conscripts out of the sideboard, which solves a lot of your issues against the decks that can go bigger.
Interesting that you recently posted this. I have a build ready for tonight that looks quite similar.
I'm still rounding some stuff out for my meta, but I think this is what I'll be running.
Thought subtle, the Lava Dart is a game breaker for Delver.
I would agree that it's relevant, but not that it's a game breaker.
There's no way to tell whether the effect would still be good in whatever new meta crops up.
Never though of Reassembling Skelly! He'd be a good Pike handler. This is what I think, Im looking for. Thanks for the idea man. Id start from this list. Any idea for the SB?
All depends on meta really, but here's where I'd start:
3 Phantasmal Image
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Dissipate
2 Tragic Slip
1 Go for the Throat
1 Doom Blade
1 Sever the Bloodline
1 Negate
I'd almost prefer playing something closer to UB control than to delver. 4 Snapcaster, 4 Delver, some Stalkers, equipment, then Tragic Slips and Vapor Snags, Doom blades... Keep it pretty much all instant speed, and take advantage of the black cheap removal to gain a kind of late game competition that U/W delver can't do that well preboard.
You also lose a lot of the best sideboard options in standard. Divine Offering, Timely Reinforcements, Day of Judgment, Celestial Purge, Oblivion Ring, Revoke Existence etc. Even fringe cards like Demystify can be useful with snapcaster. Black's sideboard options are things like Edicts and discard, which, frankly don't compare IMO.
I think this is the advice to take if you want to try U/B Delver. You lose Moorland Haunt from white, so a similar card in black could be Reassembling Skeleton. Seems to work nicely in the deck running Thought Scours and Pikes.
Being that U/W doesn't actually run many white cards, I don't see an abundance of slots to put removal into. Instead, I think you run 4+ removal spells in the side, and you have the option of sliding into a more controlling build after round 1 (most likely removing some Snags and/or Leaks for removal).
One thing being overlooked by naysayers is that this dude has 3 toughness. He doesn't die to just any removal like Stromkirk Noble (before pumps). Let's list what removal can't kill a Vexing Devil (please help me out guys, if I forgot anything):
I'm not including Vapor Snag because VS is a tempo play, and spending one mana to bounce a one mana creature isn't gaining anyone any tempo.
RE: RDW vs. Sligh - I believe RDW is traditionally burn based (meaning Vexing Devil belongs there) and Sligh is traditionally creature based, so he probably wouldn't belong there.
Listing removal that can't kill him is pointless. If I'm going to take a hit from this guy, I'm just going to pay the initial 4 life to get rid of him.
Everyone who's talking about this guy as a creature is foolish, as it's only going to be a creature when the opponent can deal with it.
My mind is boggled how 4 damage or a 4/3 for one mana is a bad thing. Are people really that spoiled? The fact that this guy can be splashed in just about any deck is worthy of celebration as it is! Who needs RDW when it can be played in BR Zombies or RG Aggro?
It's not that people are spoiled. It's the fact that when you want 4 damage, it's going to be a 4/3 that gets blocked or destroyed. When you want a 4/3 to bash with, it's just going to be 4 damage.
Unless you can capitalize on the early life loss, trading a card to do to do 4 damage to the opponent is just card disadvantage.
I don't think anyone's really hyping it. It's 4 damage or a 4/3 for one mana. What more do people want out of a red card?
It is 4 damage, but as I said, the body is irrelevant. If the opponent knows that you'll connect with it even once, they're just going to pay the initial 4 life.
I just see it as card disadvantage. This dude costs the opponent 4 life to remove. Other creatures cost the opponent a card from their hand to remove.
I think people are hyping this card up way too much. The 4/3 body on this creature is basically irrelevant, as it's never going to connect with the opponent.
This card is just a slightly larger Lava Spike early game, and a bad top-deck later on.
Congrats ErikVile. How do Skirge and Tribute work for you?
Vault Skirge is really only good if you're running Lashwrithe in your deck. Being a 1/1 just isn't enough, but having a 4+ power lifelinker is just bonkers.
@ bmrabb I think the decklist you played against was hippoblade, one of my personal favorites here is an example of the full decklist
[URL="http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=399240"]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=399240[/URL
Yeah, you're right. The dude I played mentioned that his friend Caleb played it at PT DKA.
Lashwrithe - Obviously awesome in mono black. Helps push some of the decent creatures over the top.
Highborn Ghoul - Depending on your meta, I think this guy can be pretty good. Works well with the equipment named above.
Skirsdag High Priest - Not sure on this one, but he seems like he'd be decent in a heavy creature deck.
Phyrexian Metamorph - Copying Geralf's Messenger, Lashwrithe, or any other big threat seems pretty good.
Phyrexian Obliterator - Probably the most obvious for mono black. He can be bad in some matchups, but when he's good, he's very good.
Mortarpod - Not a terrible 2-drop. Helps push thru damage in the end game. Best in decks that run Gravecrawlers and a zombie suite or decks trying to make use of the High Priest.
Skinrender - Typically, removal and a body is never bad. Being a zombie could actually be relevant too.
Bloodline Keeper - If he sticks, he starts pumping out dudes and becoming trouble for the opponent.
Bloodgift Demon - Source of card advantage on a big flying body.
Gotcha! Think it's a good idea running him as a 2-of in the sideboard in a 19 land / 3 Pike list? I'm going to be playing in the TCG Diamond Event this weekend and I'm just trying to make the last few changes... might as well post up the decklist I'm thinking of running.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Blade Splicer
3 Restoration Angel
Instants/Sorceries - 23
2 Mental Misstep
2 Gut Shot
4 Thought Scour
4 Vapor Snag
4 Ponder
4 Mana Leak
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Runechanter’s Pike
Lands - 19
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Seachrome Coast
2 Moorland Haunt
8 Island
1 Plains
3 Celestial Purge
3 Phantasmal Image
2 Talrand, Sky Summoner
2 Dissipate
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Dismember
1 Divine Offering
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Gut Shot
Thanks for the quick reply by the way.
Nice tournament report with lots of good info. I was mainly curious about Attended Knight. I'm actually running Blade Splicer in a similar role right now. It has more powerful synergy with Resto and can block sworded creatures if you don't happen to have a Snag available. Isn't that just better than Attended Knight?
Edit: Sorry if this shouldn't be posted here. Mods please move if there is another place where discussion of these decks belongs.
Interesting that you recently posted this. I have a build ready for tonight that looks quite similar.
I'm still rounding some stuff out for my meta, but I think this is what I'll be running.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Blade Splicer
3 Restoration Angel
1 Zealous Conscripts
Instants - 11
1 Dismember
2 Thought Scour
3 Mana Leak
3 Vapor Snag
2 Mental Misstep
Sorceries - 11
4 Ponder
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Bonfire of the Damned
3 Pillar of Flame
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Glacial Fortress
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Seachrome Coast
5 Island
2 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Celestial Purge
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Combust
1 Blade Splicer
1 Batterskull
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Arc Trail
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Divine Offering
I would agree that it's relevant, but not that it's a game breaker.
There's no way to tell whether the effect would still be good in whatever new meta crops up.
All depends on meta really, but here's where I'd start:
3 Phantasmal Image
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Dissipate
2 Tragic Slip
1 Go for the Throat
1 Doom Blade
1 Sever the Bloodline
1 Negate
I think this is the advice to take if you want to try U/B Delver. You lose Moorland Haunt from white, so a similar card in black could be Reassembling Skeleton. Seems to work nicely in the deck running Thought Scours and Pikes.
Being that U/W doesn't actually run many white cards, I don't see an abundance of slots to put removal into. Instead, I think you run 4+ removal spells in the side, and you have the option of sliding into a more controlling build after round 1 (most likely removing some Snags and/or Leaks for removal).
Here's roughly where I'd start:
Creatures - 15
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Invisible Stalker
4 Reassembling Skeleton
Instants/Sorceries - 21
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Thought Scour
4 Ponder
3 Vapor Snag
4 Mana Leak
2 Go for the Throat
2 Tribute to Hunger
Artifacts - 3
3 Runechanter's Pike
Listing removal that can't kill him is pointless. If I'm going to take a hit from this guy, I'm just going to pay the initial 4 life to get rid of him.
Everyone who's talking about this guy as a creature is foolish, as it's only going to be a creature when the opponent can deal with it.
It's not that people are spoiled. It's the fact that when you want 4 damage, it's going to be a 4/3 that gets blocked or destroyed. When you want a 4/3 to bash with, it's just going to be 4 damage.
Unless you can capitalize on the early life loss, trading a card to do to do 4 damage to the opponent is just card disadvantage.
It is 4 damage, but as I said, the body is irrelevant. If the opponent knows that you'll connect with it even once, they're just going to pay the initial 4 life.
I just see it as card disadvantage. This dude costs the opponent 4 life to remove. Other creatures cost the opponent a card from their hand to remove.
This card is just a slightly larger Lava Spike early game, and a bad top-deck later on.
Vault Skirge is really only good if you're running Lashwrithe in your deck. Being a 1/1 just isn't enough, but having a 4+ power lifelinker is just bonkers.
Yeah, you're right. The dude I played mentioned that his friend Caleb played it at PT DKA.
Lashwrithe - Obviously awesome in mono black. Helps push some of the decent creatures over the top.
Highborn Ghoul - Depending on your meta, I think this guy can be pretty good. Works well with the equipment named above.
Skirsdag High Priest - Not sure on this one, but he seems like he'd be decent in a heavy creature deck.
Phyrexian Metamorph - Copying Geralf's Messenger, Lashwrithe, or any other big threat seems pretty good.
Phyrexian Obliterator - Probably the most obvious for mono black. He can be bad in some matchups, but when he's good, he's very good.
Mortarpod - Not a terrible 2-drop. Helps push thru damage in the end game. Best in decks that run Gravecrawlers and a zombie suite or decks trying to make use of the High Priest.
Skinrender - Typically, removal and a body is never bad. Being a zombie could actually be relevant too.
Bloodline Keeper - If he sticks, he starts pumping out dudes and becoming trouble for the opponent.
Bloodgift Demon - Source of card advantage on a big flying body.
Just some ideas for you to possibly add.
IBTL