the WUR version isn't terrible. it plays like a midrange deck that has the option to win out of nowhere. but my preference is the all in combo. more dig means you can keep riskier hands and dig yourself out of holes if you get hit with discard. spellskite should be at least a 1 of, if not a 2 of in the mainboard. the third in the side makes some match ups cakewalks.
engineered explosives should be in the sideboard somewhere.
so, why peek over g-probe? probe slows us down by one turn. the life loss is hardly relevant, as it doesn't matter if we win with 1 life or 20. make sure the last thing you untap is the thing that does the untapping, so you can untap a blue source for dispel or whatever to stop any shenanigans.
Peek is an instant. So you could know at EOT if comboing out is safe. Either way I see no need for either of these cards.
They reaaaally need to just shell this wide beta and start over with some competent programmers. At this point it's a design issue and fixing it is a poor choice and sadly an easily made and commonly made poor choice in that industry. I also really didn't think the wide beta looked any more modern than the current client. It still looks incredibly dated and badly designed, ignoring the obviously awful performance.
There are 2 paths to victory for this deck. First of all, is to use Pestermite and Breaching Hippocamp 2 and 3 power respectively to kill the opponents. .
The other path to victory is to combo them out by protecting the combo using counterspells and Teferi.
Still testing it and hopefully it will be successful.
Is there any reason why you omit Deceiver Exarch and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker? Just curious. [card]Breaching Hippocamp seems interesting but I'm not really sure beating on the ground is the best way to go in this meta. It can be hard to count on. The 4 mana makes it a turn slower to combo out as well.
Yeah, I feel like this deck was never really that good to begin with. As if it's just that blue players are sticking to a 45/55 across-the-board decklist because it's the only Control option.
I don't think there are "set in stone" names for archetypes. There are plenty of people who would call this deck "midrange" because it has a whopping 3 creatures and a few planeswalkers. Where to me midrange is a deck full of 3-5cmc value cards and a few early game ramp spells or mana dorks. I don't think we're arguing about anything here that can actually be resolved. Furthermore arguing about what type of deck this is doesn't seem to be productive to the actual progression of the deck.
Personally, I think UWR is in a really nasty spot right now. I'm not even sure that it should stay in the Proven section much longer. I don't believe that a few minor tweaks here and there are going to bring it back to the spotlight. Scavenging Ooze really just gives Jund exactly what it wants, a card with the utility of Deathrite Shaman and raw beating power of Tarmogoyf. We have some number of Path to Exile to handle the usual 7 Tarmogoyf/Scavenging Ooze beaters that we can't really take care of otherwise without burning two spells. We rely on the same effects against the Naya shell (though less popular than GBx) and their huge beaters. Lightning Bolt just doesn't seem as powerful anymore. As someone stated previously, most cards in modern are either the staple 2/1 body or something outside of the range of Lightning Bolt. It's really really hard to be a late game deck in this meta when your removal is either a 1 for 1, or 1 for 2 against you like Path to Exile is. For a card like Mana Leak to be powerful we need to be ahead on lands, not the other way around. This card is virtually dead against Tron, and pretty sad against any midrange deck where we rely on Path to Exile as our removal spell.
I think this deck needs to rush itself into late game as fast as possible, or severely delay our opponents, since we are basically winning against non control when we are hitting 7-8+ lands. I'm not quite sure how to accomplish that though.
i'd actually like to have a discussion about stormbreath dragon vs thundermaw. the extra point of damage is pretty relevant, and the ability to get blockers out of the way is crazy as well. slamming a thundermaw against a deck that plays path is always going to be a risky play, but odds are you'll never play it on turn 5 into open mana anyways.
also, steam augury. i'm honestly tempted to play gifts ungiven over it. they serve slightly different purposes, but with slightly more thought into your deck construction, its basically the same.
Nobody is playing Thundermaw Hellkite right now, so why would you want to compare them in this thread?
Found this list in the MTGO results from the other day. Note the 4 of in his sideboard. I had a good laugh when I saw it. Do you guys think it's too narrow to have that for just the Jund decks?
I had honestly just been thinking about this as a joke. You really haven't lived until you've had a turn 2 Liliana of the Veil make you drop a Loxodon Smiter into play when you're on the draw. It's just way too funny.
EDIT: Joking aside, it's almost relevant in the control mirror (wait nope, Tectonic Edge exists) because it requires two burn spells. And probably against aggro. UWRg..control?
I can't think of any way that RiP could be destroyed and not get exiled by its own effect. It's sort of like when you wipe the board with a Blood Artist on the field. When those creatures go to the grave they look at how they existed last on the field. The reason things like Abrupt Decay don't get exiled is because the RiP is taken away before it finishes resolving and leaves the stack.
EDIT: Just tested this on MTGO, Rest in Peace is exiled, and whatever destroys it goes to the graveyard, just as gatherer states. Yay
So I tested this list the other day against a BUG Midrange deck. It was mostly like the BG deck, it had all the LD and they brought in Fulminator Mages. It was really bad. I couldn't deal with Goyfs all that well and the LD really hurt me. The fact that they had Mana Leaks available to stop my Mana Leaks was huge, especially since he generally would have more mana than I did.
Any suggestions for the SB? I assume the BG Rock matchup works the same way, where we just get hosed by a Goyf when we're on 3 lands.
Because of the massive increase in BG in my meta (MTGO), I have upped my Path to Exile count by 1 to 3, from 2. Spell Snare is really strong in this matchup as well. Though most good BG players will hold off on Tarmogoyf until he's coming in with at least 4 toughness as to not get blown out by a red sweeper like Pyroclasm or allow you to Lightning Bolt it. So mostly on the draw you're trying to get Dark Confidant with it. Fulminator Mage is seriously the most annoying card I have ever came across and everyone and their mother is now packing a playset. Various BUG decks that are running the standard BG shell and even others that I have seen are incredibly hard to deal with as you're playing draw-go with Cryptic Command and they're playing a fast game backed up by Spell Pierce and their own Mana Leaks. You can't really do much until you have a lot more mana than them and as you know that doesn't happen quickly. I generally just try to survive the Goyf beatdown and rely on our deck's lategame.
What do you guys think about Stonecloaker in side? A GY hate that can beat as well. Also can bounce snapcaster in a pinch.
Is it too expensive?
But instant speed recurrable "exile target card in GY" is always nice to be played in response to some trigger.
I think that is an interesting card. Having some graveyard hate in white is nice and extremely unexpected. I could see this as a 1-of similar to how people are running 1-of Shadow of Doubt. But what do we replace? I'm actually going to test this on MTGO. Just because I love potential hidden gem utility creatures.
How do you guys feel about Hallowed Burial? I've been main decking it for awhile and I don't think I've cast it for a long time. I always hate drawing it.
So now that i've played with crucible more, my suspicions have been confirmed and it's not very good.
It's just like molten rain, very good on turn 3, very bad on turn 15-20.
I'd rather just play elspeth, she's very good. I'm going to cut my ajani. I think the pressure she provides is going to come up more often than the 3 life ajani provides.
I also have a hard time tapping out for Crucible of Worlds. It lets me recur my Tectonic Edge's against Tron, but it doesn't really seem to help unless I get it in my opening hand and can power it out immediately, which can still leave me vulnerable to a blowout. I think the original idea for this card was for the mirror match, to make our Celestial Colonnade's non removable. But with the common inclusion of Sowing Salts I don't know that it functions as well anymore.
I don't think anyone has a serious problem with the things being discussed as they are relevant to MTG. But this forum doesn't seem like an appropriate place for it. This is the "UWR Control" forum intented to discuss and further develop that archetype alone. It doesn't seem right to be discussing non competitive decks in here.
I for one firmly support that all discussion here should be towards improving upon the UWR Control archetype. Splashing seems acceptable, but casting Cruel Ultimatum represents an entirely different deck.
How are you guys handling the Tron matchup? I'm playing basically the same list as darksteel88 and I'm not winning a single one of these matches. I am boarding in Sowing Salt, Crucible of Worlds, and an extra Tectonic Edge. Although I don't think I've seen a single one of those cards in over 10 matches against them. I assume the idea is to drop Snapcaster Mage early on and try to beat? They just seem like an inevitable loss.
Flames of the Firebrand is a significantly better card for killing small creatures. The problem I think with Aurelia's Fury is that it's too expensive for aggro, and there are just better options for control and midrange.
Peek is an instant. So you could know at EOT if comboing out is safe. Either way I see no need for either of these cards.
Is there any reason why you omit Deceiver Exarch and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker? Just curious. [card]Breaching Hippocamp seems interesting but I'm not really sure beating on the ground is the best way to go in this meta. It can be hard to count on. The 4 mana makes it a turn slower to combo out as well.
I never understood why this deck was so popular either. It's really an underdog in all of the popular match-ups.
I don't think there are "set in stone" names for archetypes. There are plenty of people who would call this deck "midrange" because it has a whopping 3 creatures and a few planeswalkers. Where to me midrange is a deck full of 3-5cmc value cards and a few early game ramp spells or mana dorks. I don't think we're arguing about anything here that can actually be resolved. Furthermore arguing about what type of deck this is doesn't seem to be productive to the actual progression of the deck.
Personally, I think UWR is in a really nasty spot right now. I'm not even sure that it should stay in the Proven section much longer. I don't believe that a few minor tweaks here and there are going to bring it back to the spotlight. Scavenging Ooze really just gives Jund exactly what it wants, a card with the utility of Deathrite Shaman and raw beating power of Tarmogoyf. We have some number of Path to Exile to handle the usual 7 Tarmogoyf/Scavenging Ooze beaters that we can't really take care of otherwise without burning two spells. We rely on the same effects against the Naya shell (though less popular than GBx) and their huge beaters. Lightning Bolt just doesn't seem as powerful anymore. As someone stated previously, most cards in modern are either the staple 2/1 body or something outside of the range of Lightning Bolt. It's really really hard to be a late game deck in this meta when your removal is either a 1 for 1, or 1 for 2 against you like Path to Exile is. For a card like Mana Leak to be powerful we need to be ahead on lands, not the other way around. This card is virtually dead against Tron, and pretty sad against any midrange deck where we rely on Path to Exile as our removal spell.
I think this deck needs to rush itself into late game as fast as possible, or severely delay our opponents, since we are basically winning against non control when we are hitting 7-8+ lands. I'm not quite sure how to accomplish that though.
Nobody is playing Thundermaw Hellkite right now, so why would you want to compare them in this thread?
I had honestly just been thinking about this as a joke. You really haven't lived until you've had a turn 2 Liliana of the Veil make you drop a Loxodon Smiter into play when you're on the draw. It's just way too funny.
EDIT: Joking aside, it's almost relevant in the control mirror (wait nope, Tectonic Edge exists) because it requires two burn spells. And probably against aggro. UWRg..control?
EDIT: Just tested this on MTGO, Rest in Peace is exiled, and whatever destroys it goes to the graveyard, just as gatherer states. Yay
Because of the massive increase in BG in my meta (MTGO), I have upped my Path to Exile count by 1 to 3, from 2. Spell Snare is really strong in this matchup as well. Though most good BG players will hold off on Tarmogoyf until he's coming in with at least 4 toughness as to not get blown out by a red sweeper like Pyroclasm or allow you to Lightning Bolt it. So mostly on the draw you're trying to get Dark Confidant with it. Fulminator Mage is seriously the most annoying card I have ever came across and everyone and their mother is now packing a playset. Various BUG decks that are running the standard BG shell and even others that I have seen are incredibly hard to deal with as you're playing draw-go with Cryptic Command and they're playing a fast game backed up by Spell Pierce and their own Mana Leaks. You can't really do much until you have a lot more mana than them and as you know that doesn't happen quickly. I generally just try to survive the Goyf beatdown and rely on our deck's lategame.
I think that is an interesting card. Having some graveyard hate in white is nice and extremely unexpected. I could see this as a 1-of similar to how people are running 1-of Shadow of Doubt. But what do we replace? I'm actually going to test this on MTGO. Just because I love potential hidden gem utility creatures.
I also have a hard time tapping out for Crucible of Worlds. It lets me recur my Tectonic Edge's against Tron, but it doesn't really seem to help unless I get it in my opening hand and can power it out immediately, which can still leave me vulnerable to a blowout. I think the original idea for this card was for the mirror match, to make our Celestial Colonnade's non removable. But with the common inclusion of Sowing Salts I don't know that it functions as well anymore.
I for one firmly support that all discussion here should be towards improving upon the UWR Control archetype. Splashing seems acceptable, but casting Cruel Ultimatum represents an entirely different deck.