Big news! My group and I decided that we want to tighten up the cube. We were going to cut it all the way to 360, and indeed, did a couple of drafts at that size to get a feel for what we'd be missing, but ultimately decided that we aren't willing to go quite that far. Instead we're cutting the list down to 405, losing several of the following cards in the process. Also included in this list are my M2012 additions to date. (I'm still looking for the other two walkers, but otherwise I think I have everything.)
Tell me what you think guys. So far, we've really enjoyed the power level increase the change has given us, but its more than possible that we made some mistakes in our cuts.
Thank you all very much for your advice. I'm glad there seems to be a consensus. I will (hopefully) be the proud owner of a Library of Alexandria soon.
Superman is still a beast. Indeed, a beast and a half. The only rules change they could implement that would change that would be "You can activate abilities only any time you could play a sorcery".
I do not deny that it is a good card. One reason that I do not want to add it is that I try to keep the number of planeswalkers low, because I don't want too many of them showing up in a given draft (I do not play Elspeth Tirel for the same reason).
I can absolutely sympathize with this. I think that if I acquire Jace 3 I'm going to have to make an exception, but I am getting pretty tired of the number of auto-include planeswalkers. I agree that of the cards you listed Bribery would be my first cut, but I don't think you should cut it. If you're locked in to your current number of finishers, skip the walker.
EDIT - I see you're still running Jace 1. Since Jace 3 has the draw ability that you'd want anyway and gains loyalty while he does it, I think it's probably worth the extra 2 mana investment in the first place. If you want to look at him as a draw engine that occasionally finishes the game, maybe you can make that swap. It solves the walker problem anyway.
Of the red creatures you suggested for cuts, the only two I'd shy away from dropping are Goblin Patrol and Moltensteel Dragon. Of the spells, I can't see losing Staggershock at all. That's a staple as far as I can tell. I like Words of War a lot too, so I'd lose Whipflare.
I wouldn't cut Thieving Magpie. Assuming you aren't taking suggestions for dropping some of the blue aggro-only cards, then I think I'd drop Aether Adept first. It's redundant with Man-o'-war and Venser, so I don't know if you'd miss it that much. For us it hasn't been much more than filler (really good filler, but filler nonetheless).
I think the other changes are fine. I don't know about Skinshifter, Lawkeeper, or Azure Mage, especially the latter two, but I'm interested in seeing the results of your testing.
Double sleeving is the way to go. Nothing beats the peace of mind you get from it. Also, I've been using KMC Perfect Fits inside my Ultra Pros and haven't had a problem. (Well, except for my general problems with Ultra Pro sleeves. I need to upgrade to KMC.
I have zero proxies in my cube, primarily because I haven't found a way of making high-quality ones that aren't far too stiff to use, but secondarily because it's not really for me or my group. I don't fault anyone for running proxies though.
i would cut shelldock isle or sea gate oracle because i think they're the weakest cards in your blue section. you could also lose a blue finisher, but i think i'd go for sphinx of jwar isle/morphling over inky because those two are so similar and inky brings something else to the table. if inkwell isn't seeing a lot of play i'd go with him, though.
Shelldock Isle has been pretty good, though admittedly not great. I could see it coming out soon, but hopefully it would be for something low on the curve, like maybe Phantasmal Image, when I get one. I do like SGO a lot though. He's a really good speed bump. (Plus, how could I not cube with that art? :P). I'm thinking about exchanging Jwar Jwar Sphinx with Consecrated Sphinx to give CS another try, since I've read a lot of success stories on these forums the last couple of weeks and I'm beginning to think we didn't give him a proper trial. Inky is seeing some play, but no one ever hard casts it, so it seems like The Technodrome and Wurmcoil Engine can hold down the fort.
I had completely forgotten about YawgWin, I've been meaning to take that out for awhile now, so that's going to be the cut. (90% of the time, the decks that were playing it would have been better served with a Swamp.) I don't have enough experience with Sewer Nemesis to judge him yet, though every time he's come down he's been bigger than Sliver. I'll probably end up dropping the Djinn clone soon. Despise has been very good here, with aggro using it to get rid of nastiness like Spellskite and Elspeth before they have to deal with it. I've never seen it whiff either, so I doubt that one's going to get cut soon.
Another question for you guys- I'm going to be selling a bunch of my Legacy cards given how popular the format has become, and I'm putting the money towards improving my cube. I doubt I'm going to have this much loose cash again any time soon, so I'm torn. On the one hand, I could afford one or two of the huge cards that I'm missing, like Library of Alexandria and Mana Drain. On the other, I could use it to pick up a bunch of the recent stuff that I'm missing (Vengevine, Lotus Cobra, Karn, Planeswalker.) and to pay for my M12 update. So what do you think I should do - splurge on the legendary cards, or fill more slots with the modern cards?
I don't get why Kodama and Garruk both being 2GGG cards makes one a good cut for the other. If anything I am more encouraged to play a deck that has no problem to provide the three green if I have more than one card in my deck with that cost. So really the only argument left is the low toughness, which is valid, but in my experience they often have to block with two creatures to take Kodama down.
Here, mono-green is by far the weakest deck, and so I'm not inclined to try to push cards that are really only going to see play in those lists. Garruk is worth committing to more green, but I don't think Kodama North is, so that's what I'd cut. GGG is not a tempting mana cost in my cube, and I can't imagine a draft where I'd want to see both of them.
I see where you're coming from though, in saying that it would push you to reach for that third G. It's a good point. It's just that the deck that ends up reaching for that third G has not been strong for us.
sexy - Liliana definitely gets played more often than Sorin. I'm hoping we get a new, kick-ass Lil' Vess come Innistrad to replace her, but for now she's solid. At least I've seen more than one of her abilities used.
Konfusius- Yeah, the quality of colorless creatures is what inspired me to target Inky. As for black, Thrashing Wumpus is not near my block, but Makeshift Mannequin is a great catch. I think it sees more play than the BBB walker, and I don't really want to increase the overall CMC of the cube, but I'm looking its way now. I'm glad you mentioned the reanimator spell, because I overlooked it when I was looking for cuts.
Palinchron, Repeal, and Psionic Blast. I only suggest 'chron because I don't think you need another finisher in blue. If you want the new Jace, I think you have to make a decision here about exactly how much he means to you as a finisher. It's less about 'chron's power, and more about how many big mana spells need to be in the draft. At least, that's what pushed 'chron out of our cube.
Welder and Hellkite for me. Welder seems too inconsistent, though I'll admit that I've never tried him in cube. I share your love for Starstorm, so for me cutting that is right out. Chaos Warp has worked out pretty well here, but it's exactly the kind of card that's going to play differently for everyone. Hell, it's in the name. I don't think cutting the dragon significantly hurts reanimator.
I don't really want to cut the Exarch and add in 3 new planeswalkers...So now I'm leaning towards Kodama and Rofellos.
So much this.
Kodama is the perfect cut for Garruk because of the CMC, and because his toughness is a real downer. Rofellos is just solid, IMO. Enabling mono-green is far less important than keeping answers for walkers in, and the occasional Worldly Tutor on a stick has not been irrelevant here.
Okay guys, I need your help. I just acquired Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Grave Titan. Obviously, both need to come in, but I'm not at all sure what to cut. I'm thinking maybe Inky and Sorin Markov? I'm open to all suggestions.
I really like the art on the original Planeshift Flametongue Kavu. In all the other versions, they cut out the rock he's standing on... which takes a lot away from the composition. Foil Planeshift FTK is the way to go.
FTK was already on my list of things to upgrade to a more pimp version, since I'm still using the FNM foil, but you just made it shoot to the top of the list. I can't believe that I never noticed that.
White
-Knight of the White Orchid
-Ronom Unicorn
-Karmic Guide
-Sunblast Angel
-Temporal Isolation
-Decree of Justice
-Porcelain Legionnaire (Moved to Colorless)
+Stoneforge Mystic
Blue
-Dismiss
-Repeal
-Bribery
-Preordain
-Misdirection
-Shelldock Isle
-Frantic Search
-Gilded Drake
-Phyrexian Metamorph (Moved to Colorless)
+Phantasmal Image
+Jace, Memory Adept
Black
-Sorin Markov
-Liliana Vess
-Makeshift Mannequin
-Fledgling Djinn
-Black Knight
-Thrashing Wumpus
-Plague Sliver
Red
-Keldon Champion
-Rift Bolt
-Goblin Ruinblaster
-Hearth Kami
-Bogardan Hellkite
-Fireball
-Words of War
-Barbarian Ring
-Whipflare
+Chandra's Phoenix
+Stormblood Berserker
Green
-Berserk
-Gaea's Cradle
-Worldly Tutor
-Caller of the Claw
-Ohran Viper
-Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
-Brutalizer Exarch
-Terastodon
-Spike Weaver
+Skinshifter
+Wild Nacatl (Moved from Multicolor)
Colorless
-Engineered Explosives
-Precursor Golem
-Squee, Goblin Nabob
-Triskelion
-Bonehoard
-Chrome Mox
-Terramorphic Expanse
-Lightning Greaves
+Phyrexian Metamorph
+Porcelain Legionnaire
Multicolor
-Lightning Angel
-Broodmate Dragon
-Wild Nacatl (Moved to Green)
Tell me what you think guys. So far, we've really enjoyed the power level increase the change has given us, but its more than possible that we made some mistakes in our cuts.
Superman is still a beast. Indeed, a beast and a half. The only rules change they could implement that would change that would be "You can activate abilities only any time you could play a sorcery".
I can absolutely sympathize with this. I think that if I acquire Jace 3 I'm going to have to make an exception, but I am getting pretty tired of the number of auto-include planeswalkers. I agree that of the cards you listed Bribery would be my first cut, but I don't think you should cut it. If you're locked in to your current number of finishers, skip the walker.
EDIT - I see you're still running Jace 1. Since Jace 3 has the draw ability that you'd want anyway and gains loyalty while he does it, I think it's probably worth the extra 2 mana investment in the first place. If you want to look at him as a draw engine that occasionally finishes the game, maybe you can make that swap. It solves the walker problem anyway.
Of the red creatures you suggested for cuts, the only two I'd shy away from dropping are Goblin Patrol and Moltensteel Dragon. Of the spells, I can't see losing Staggershock at all. That's a staple as far as I can tell. I like Words of War a lot too, so I'd lose Whipflare.
I wouldn't cut Thieving Magpie. Assuming you aren't taking suggestions for dropping some of the blue aggro-only cards, then I think I'd drop Aether Adept first. It's redundant with Man-o'-war and Venser, so I don't know if you'd miss it that much. For us it hasn't been much more than filler (really good filler, but filler nonetheless).
I think the other changes are fine. I don't know about Skinshifter, Lawkeeper, or Azure Mage, especially the latter two, but I'm interested in seeing the results of your testing.
Wow. Sounds like. Unfortunately, I've never seen his ultimate in action.
Shelldock Isle has been pretty good, though admittedly not great. I could see it coming out soon, but hopefully it would be for something low on the curve, like maybe Phantasmal Image, when I get one. I do like SGO a lot though. He's a really good speed bump. (Plus, how could I not cube with that art? :P). I'm thinking about exchanging Jwar Jwar Sphinx with Consecrated Sphinx to give CS another try, since I've read a lot of success stories on these forums the last couple of weeks and I'm beginning to think we didn't give him a proper trial. Inky is seeing some play, but no one ever hard casts it, so it seems like The Technodrome and Wurmcoil Engine can hold down the fort.
I had completely forgotten about YawgWin, I've been meaning to take that out for awhile now, so that's going to be the cut. (90% of the time, the decks that were playing it would have been better served with a Swamp.) I don't have enough experience with Sewer Nemesis to judge him yet, though every time he's come down he's been bigger than Sliver. I'll probably end up dropping the Djinn clone soon. Despise has been very good here, with aggro using it to get rid of nastiness like Spellskite and Elspeth before they have to deal with it. I've never seen it whiff either, so I doubt that one's going to get cut soon.
So then let's make these changes final
OUT becomes IN
Yawgmoth's Will becomes Grave Titan
Inkwell Leviathan becomes Jace, The Mind Sculptor
Another question for you guys- I'm going to be selling a bunch of my Legacy cards given how popular the format has become, and I'm putting the money towards improving my cube. I doubt I'm going to have this much loose cash again any time soon, so I'm torn. On the one hand, I could afford one or two of the huge cards that I'm missing, like Library of Alexandria and Mana Drain. On the other, I could use it to pick up a bunch of the recent stuff that I'm missing (Vengevine, Lotus Cobra, Karn, Planeswalker.) and to pay for my M12 update. So what do you think I should do - splurge on the legendary cards, or fill more slots with the modern cards?
Here, mono-green is by far the weakest deck, and so I'm not inclined to try to push cards that are really only going to see play in those lists. Garruk is worth committing to more green, but I don't think Kodama North is, so that's what I'd cut. GGG is not a tempting mana cost in my cube, and I can't imagine a draft where I'd want to see both of them.
I see where you're coming from though, in saying that it would push you to reach for that third G. It's a good point. It's just that the deck that ends up reaching for that third G has not been strong for us.
Konfusius- Yeah, the quality of colorless creatures is what inspired me to target Inky. As for black, Thrashing Wumpus is not near my block, but Makeshift Mannequin is a great catch. I think it sees more play than the BBB walker, and I don't really want to increase the overall CMC of the cube, but I'm looking its way now. I'm glad you mentioned the reanimator spell, because I overlooked it when I was looking for cuts.
Thank you both.
Palinchron, Repeal, and Psionic Blast. I only suggest 'chron because I don't think you need another finisher in blue. If you want the new Jace, I think you have to make a decision here about exactly how much he means to you as a finisher. It's less about 'chron's power, and more about how many big mana spells need to be in the draft. At least, that's what pushed 'chron out of our cube.
Welder and Hellkite for me. Welder seems too inconsistent, though I'll admit that I've never tried him in cube. I share your love for Starstorm, so for me cutting that is right out. Chaos Warp has worked out pretty well here, but it's exactly the kind of card that's going to play differently for everyone. Hell, it's in the name. I don't think cutting the dragon significantly hurts reanimator.
Kodama and Rofellos, because...
So much this.
Kodama is the perfect cut for Garruk because of the CMC, and because his toughness is a real downer. Rofellos is just solid, IMO. Enabling mono-green is far less important than keeping answers for walkers in, and the occasional Worldly Tutor on a stick has not been irrelevant here.
Hope that helps.
Thanks as always.
FTK was already on my list of things to upgrade to a more pimp version, since I'm still using the FNM foil, but you just made it shoot to the top of the list. I can't believe that I never noticed that.