Agelic overseer is definitely sweet and worth sideboard slots. Loyal cathar is a bit rough costing ww, and his flipside isn't that good. Doomed traveller isn't good now without honor of the pure in my opinion, though I may be wrong.
When you play huntmasters, you are looking to grind out games against all kinds of decks instead of praying for a godhand and killing the opponent quickly. I play in a lot of long tournaments and I dislike having games where I lose to a control or midrange opponent just because I didn't draw my nut hand. Lunarchs, mayors, and huntmasters make for a better grind-style deck whilst keeping a decent amount of aggressiveness. Lunarch is perfect here as he fits in all parts of your curve. It all boils down to the kind of deck you prefer. Consistency vs. Raw power.
- Sasky
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Nov 29, 2012Sasky posted a message on Naya Humans (RTR Standard)@javdubs: Your idea sounds good. Have you checked out Craig Wescoe's Lightning Humans deck? It's up on tcgplayer. His idea sounds like what you want to be doing for that direction. As for bant control, this deck, like all aggro decks, is quite soft to sweepers. However, I have played the matchup and this deck is superior to straight out g/w aggro in dealing with long, grindy games. You just need to land a werewolf and let him win the game for you or until they sweep, then play something else. Midrange is ok, just hope for the best game 1, then punish them with intrepid hero game 2 (and 3).Posted in: Sasky Blog
@BobMcfall: They are both control-ish cards, which isn't really what this deck wants to be doing. I do want to play daybreak ranger, but she seems to get in the way of the main game plan. Pillar is also too difficult to support mana-wise. We have like 1 turn one untapped mana. -
Aug 14, 2012Sasky posted a message on Making the best Werewolf deck (Innistrad Standard)Thanks, I have tested gang and found him to be clunky, especially with huntmaster competing at the 4-drop slot. Bonfire is usually a better spell.Posted in: Sasky Blog
I agree with the borderland comment. He's actually ok because of the relatively high curve and because he gets a boost from mayor, though running 4 might be a bit too much. As of now he's ok, but I'll see how it goes. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1 Viscera Seer
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
1 Cartel Aristocrat
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Spellskite
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Path to Exile
3 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
Lands (23)
1 Godless Shrine
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
2 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Gavony Township
3 Razorverge Thicket
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Path to Exile
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Kor Firewalker
4 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Choke
1 Orzhov Pontiff
4 Fulminator Mage
The rounds:
- Bye
- Bye
- 1-2 vs. UWR Control (one of the worst matchups, easily).
- 2-1 vs. Jund (a really easy matchup)
- 2-1 vs. Infect (another good matchup - tidehollow is insane here)
- 2-1 vs. Burn (not as easy as you think)
- 1-2 vs. Burn (I have 2 Firewalkers and 4 Finks!!! Wtf! I lost G3 with Firewalker, Finks, and Skite on board))
- 1-2 vs. Grixis Control (4 Terminates 4 Dispels = gg)
- No-show from opponent.
The MVP all day was Anafenza, the Foremost. I never lost a game when she lands. She just does so much for so little mana.
I don't think there's any way we're beating UWR control reliable without some luck. Burn is supposedly a pretty decent matchup. I was a little too conservative in my play in my loss to burn - we were both down to 1 hp and he topdecked an Atarka's command (he consistently drew burn every turn after playing his 4th land) so I am very sure I could have won had I made a better attack in an earlier turn. Grixis really depends on their draws - We had a long drawn out game 1 where he squeaked out a win, G2 was over very quickly when I swarmed him with creatures on T5-6, and G3 was extremely one-sided when he drew removal after removal, dispel'd all 3 Cocos I casted and landed Jace AoT on turn 4.
If you look at my decklist, I was hedging against random combo decks like Grishoalbrand and Amulet Bloom with stuff like MD Canonist and Mindcensor. Those were historically horrible matchups, but I did not meet any. I did not meet any Tron either, but I boarded in the 4 FMs a lot, so they're good.
Moving forward I'm not sure what changes I would make. I don't like to insta-lose to any matchup so I am iffy on cutting the canonist and mindcensor (they're pretty ok in other matchups) and they did not contribute to my losses in any way (no "I wish this canonist was a xxx" situations - in fact the only time I saw her G1 was vs. infect, a matchup she is good against). I've had a good run with this deck from before it became noticed due to all the States lists so it's probably time to give it a rest and go back to playing blue decks.
That's a neurok's helmet, which makes sense for a card from Mirrodin.
Congrats!
I can't make a sweeping statement on the BG/x matchup as I have much less experience with this deck as compared to the traditional build.
Based on gut feel and the one round I played against Abzan yesterday, I think it's about the same. You have more solid counterspells and Ojutai's a pain in the arse for them to deal with, but Finks are extremely good against them as compared to SSS (which are ok in disrupting discard spells and goyfs but not much else).
BG/x is a pretty good matchup for both builds anyway.
Yes. Being able to beat U-Tron (or other tron decks) was a major issue for me with the traditional U/W control decks. The matchup was much easier for me this time round as this deck does not have cards that suck in that matchup, like finks and walls.
I can't think of a matchup where this deck is actively bad against which the traditional build would be good against. You lose a bit of percentage against things like Affinity and Burn, but the matchups improve across the board. This should be the way forward for people looking to play U/W control decks in my humble opinion.
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Restoration Angel
2 Dragonlord Ojutai
Spells (22)
2 Spell Snare
4 Path to Exile
2 Anticipate
2 Valorous Stance
3 Remand
3 Silumgar's Scorn
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Cryptic Command
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Mystic Gate
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Plains
2 Seachrome Coast
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
4 Mutavault
1 Dispel
1 Celestial Purge
1 Flashfreeze
2 Disenchant
2 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Supreme Verdict
Decks faced:
R1: Abzan Little Kid
R2: Burn
R3: UR Twin
R4: Burn
R5: ID
R6: ID
QF: Mono Blue Tron
SF: Jeskai Control
F: Abzan
The midrange plan is not worse than the combo plan as long as you play the right 'hatebears' and fetch them accordingly.
Thank you for taking the time to test out my list. It is much appreciated.
You make very good points, thank you! I will mull over them and tweak my deck for next week's events with your feedback in mind.
Here are my thoughts on what you have said.
Canonist is great vs. Bloom, Infect, Burn, and Ad Nauseam. I agree that she would probably be better in the sb. The one-of in the MD is for testing, as I auto-lose to dedicated combo decks like bloom and ad nauseam g1.
Agree with wall of roots.
As Stuhl has pointed out, mindcensor is not symetrical. I would have to disagree with you on mindcensor as he's our only hedge against tron and bloom which are horrendous matchups, and he's pretty good as a beater too. I don't think he is leaving the maindeck any time soon.
Agree with Dauntless Escort.
For pontiff, do you not like him against lingering souls? Abzan is a pretty popular deck. The CC deck is also getting popular and he kills dorks well. I agree that he is pretty bad vs the rest of the field.
I think 22 lands and 6 dorks might be too low. I have many games where I am sitting on 2-3 lands the entire time, leaning on dorks for mana. Maybe some number in between is ideal, like 23 lands and 6 dorks.
I like the current split between ooze/pridemage/voice too and their numbers are not changing for me.
I like your suggestion to increase the beef count. Rhino might not be great because of CC, but I like the idea of testing some number of goyfs and knights. Lark might not be so good without pod to dump her in the yard.
I am only showing my results in actual events. There's a bunch of playtesting with friends and strangers that goes in-between as well but I did not take notes.
This is the list I started out with. There were tweaks in between events, but for the most part the list looks like this:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Viscera Seer
1 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Spellskite
1 Wall of Roots
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Voice of Resurgence
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Sin Collector
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Path to Exile
3 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
Lands (23)
1 Godless Shrine
1 Marsh Flats
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
2 Forest
3 Gavony Township
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Thoughtseize
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sin Collector
2 Choke
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
I played 3 weekday events and a GPT and a PPTQ.
I did not take notes on my wins, but I did note down the main reason for my losses.
Event 1 (2-0, split 3-0 prize):
Win vs. Grixis Delver
Win vs. UR Twin
Event 2 (2-0, split 3-0 prize):
Win vs. UWR Twin
Win vs. Abzan
GPT (1-2 drop) I played Abrupt Decay instead of paths this event to try it out.
Lose vs. GR Tron (It is difficult to fight through fatties without path. I combo'd to infinite life g1, but he annihilated my board with 2 Eldrazis and restarted the game with Karn. G2 I died to wurmcoil, Karn, Sundering Titan despite having Stony Silence in play.)
Win vs. Abzan
Lose vs. UWR Control (Angels! The guy drew 2 restoration angels game 1, and 3 of them game 2. Again, not having path sucks).
PPTQ (2-3) I tried out Blood Artist this event.
Win vs. Grixis control
Lose vs. Abzan (I had a game loss for writing 2 spellskites instead of 1, and I drew very poorly against my opponent game 1)
Lose vs. Merfolk (Double Master of Waves w/o drawing chord or pontiff game 1, then getting stuck on 2 lands with my BoP getting vapor snag'd twice + spreading seas on one of my lands + 5 lords on my opponent's side)
Win vs. G/W Hatebears
Lose vs. Bloom Titan (T3 kill g1, killed him g2, and died to two pyroclasm + firespout g3)
After my ridiculous loss to Bloom Titan I realized that playing the combo-light version exposes me to instant death against any fast combo decks.
I decided to move a canonist effect mb and beef up my tron-hate.
This brings me to the latest list I am playing:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Cartel Aristocrat
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Spellskite
1 Wall of Roots
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Voice of Resurgence
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Eternal Witness
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Sin Collector
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Path to Exile
3 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
Lands (23)
1 Godless Shrine
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
2 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Gavony Township
3 Razorverge Thicket
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Thoughtseize
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Choke
4 Fulminator Mage
I played 2 more weekday events with this list.
Event 3 (2-1)
Win vs. Grixis Delver
Lose vs. Burn (G1 I could not beat his insane draw, G2 finks + scooze saved me, G3 He topdeck skullcrack'd my finks after I already checked his hand with sin collector, and won by exactsies.)
Win vs. Burn
Event 4 (3-0)
Win vs. Grixis Twin
Win vs. UW Control
Win vs. Ad Nauseam
Just some comments:
Moving forward I might swap out the Dauntless Escort for something else. It might be a 4th finks, but drawing multiple finks in the matchups he is bad in is really sad, and he's not super-good in the matchups he is good in as well. I need more games with the Escort to see if stopping a sweeper is worth it. He could easily be a Fulminator Mage as well to stop manlands g1.
I like the md canonist - she gives us a chance against our worst matchups (except for Tron) and is not detrimental in others. I would not have beat my Ad Nauseam opponent G1 without her. We use our mana quite efficiently anyway due to being land-light and keeping mana open for township, chord, and CC so the single-spell clause does not hurt us. She has collateral benefits vs. decks like burn and infect.
I might trade one of the reclamation sages in the sb for something else.
Blood Artist is a trap in lists like mine. You are almost always on the beatdown plan (I have combo'd off to infinite life only twice in all my event-games). I hated drawing him every single time.
Speaking of the beatdown plan, our beatdown plan is amazing because of exalted triggers. Our creatures trade up quite easily with a couple of hierarchs on board. Birds are also great attackers on a clogged board when you give them exalted.
Thanks for reading. Let me know if anyone wants any details on any of the games I played.
When sideboarding in 3-4 thoughtseizes to combat fast combo decks like bloom titan, is it correct to board out some amount of collected company since you will be lowering your creature count anyway?
I agree with you and I don't take offence.
Isn't the whole point of discussion to have differing viewpoints and hearing each other out though? I've learnt a lot about this deck from people like cbgirardo clarifying why they disagree with the points I raised. I don't think I've been making any stupid or cute suggestions so far - if I have please point them out to me. The decks that are posted have been top 8-ing in States and that's a fantastic result, but States and SCG IQs are not a GP - therefore, I am quite sure that the deck has a lot of room to grow and only in discussing options can the deck grow.
The cartel aristocrat comment was an oversight on my part as I'm not playing the combo version and I apologize. It makes perfect sense that if you are looking to combo off frequently then the unblockable guy is better.