Im not really sure about Sower being something we need here... so far Thou-knot is an MVP and Reality Smasher is a bit worse than Stormbreath Dragon in my testing.. Lets Continue...
And that is exactly why i predicted Skred was going to be my best bet on the next pro tour.. it will be filled with aggro decks trying to beat tron and eldrazi blasting each other..
On another note, yesterday as i tested vs Black Eldrazi i won 4 of 6 matches the key is an early blodo moon.. it all depended on that since if they didnt discard it they just flop to it. The matches i lost was a combination of exaclty that and being beaten by reality smasher on turn 3 and a second one on turn 4.. that card is a damn beast, best card on OGW for modern with the seer so far and they are close.. specially against us the smasher is almost unkillable.
This led me to think of the best ways to get rid of it and i think that perilous vault is the best bet so far.... then it clicked with me.. and what if we used it? we could get rid of the blood moon, or send it to the sb?.. or we could still play it on main and rely on mindstones solely to cast it, and also what about thought knot seer if we are at it?.. something like.
4 reality smasher
4 thought knot seer
4 mind stone
4 skred
4 lightning bolt
4 anger of the gods
4 koth of the hammer
3 relic of progenitus
3 blood moon
3 molten rain
3 scrying sheets
2 mouth of ronom
18 snow covered mountain
Ok so far i have tested a build with 4 reckoner 2 stormbreath 3 goblin dark dwellers and the goblins hadnt been all that amazing, and there is also the fact that i dont want to get rid of my 3 relics on mainboard and they kind of have a conflict with each other.. i must say i destroyed an american control deck by playing turn 3 moon, turn 4 molten to your island, turn 5 dwellers for molten to your plains gg...
Im not sure about this. i want to also try pia and kiran nalaar... ill keep on it... oh and if any of you play on MWS look for me there.. im The Horror.
Well i consider Tron a relatively good matchup cause of that same thing you point out, blood moon doesnt win you the game, nor do molten rain, but they surely slow them down enough to get you through a koth ultimate or a stormbreath dragon, match 1 is a pain in the ass, game 2 we do need pithing needles, spellskite is somehow good vs karn but nothing else, crumble to dust can slow down a lil bit more. so i dont think is a good matchup but it is not terrible.
The black eldrazi deck seems to suffer a lot more from the moon and land destruction than GR tron too, so far i dont see it as a particularly bad matchup.
Im liking the idea of th goblin dark-dwellers rebuying me a molten rain or an anger of the gods.. a bolt and or a skred arent that great though.. i dunno ill test them out.. as for chandra flamecaller i dunno.. 6 mana.. mm ill give it a try.
One thing is for sure.. im not cuting reckoner and blasphemous they re great, and although i like the idea of srhapnel blast and pia nalar it seems a lot more sinergy dependant thus more unstable.
I have to check thunderbreak regent but i dunno.. in my 4 mana slot i almost all the time will want to play koth..
Hey guys, well i have been playing Skred for a long time now.. i used to play it on Coldsnap T2 and i returned to it last year when everybody got the affinity and melira collected decks craze cause of the hangarback and collected company.
Welll i have won several FNM, PPTQ and GPT.. i even got in top 4 of my Regional PTQ and im qualified for Pro tour Atlanta cause of it.
Here is the list i was using just until before the TWIN ban..( that was also one of if not our worst matchup so yaaay).
Back then the worst match as i said wa UR twin and we had good to great matchups vs almost all of the Meta, but now we have a different monster in our laps which is GR Tron and Black Eldrazi..
So far im really thinking about playing this on the PT, i believe that it has a relatively good match vs GR Tron, im not so sure about Black Eldrazi i would have to test more, but im also sure that because of these 2 decks there will be a lot more of the other decks that beat these 2 so im expecting a lot of affinity, zoo, collected company, burn, infect and some jeskai control/kiki Resto, and Kiki chord decks.. And with Skred on my side im fine with all of those matches im even fine vs Scapeshift and i believe the 2 new bad matchups would be Boggles ( its a coin toss really, and Storm and maybe Ad Nauseam).
With all this in mind i believe that cutting the simian spirit guides is a big mistake, the turn 2 moon play is not only powerful it also makes the opponent play around it even if you cant cast it, it is the same with the relics, i wont cut them from the main because it not only shrinks tarmogoyf or keeps snapcaster on check, it also helps vs Knightfall, Melira, Infect (become inmense), Grixis Delve. I have been thinking of the tweaks on the sb for thi new meta and so far i think ill trade the oblivion stones ( that were there to destroy kor firewalker, etched champions and are overal better than a pyrite spellbomb since they are also sweepers) for PErilous vault,they execute mostly at the same speed but Vault also helps on the Boggle match.
Im not sure if the shattering spree will be needed but 2 shatterstorm need to stay affinity is a ***** haha, and they alsoare needed on case you ran into a lantern deck. Boil has to go along with Combust as they are no longer needed.
Crumble to dust i believe it has to go in as a 2 off on the sb to put a nail on the coffin of the tron and eldrazi matchups and i believe pithing needle would be sufficient to help as a catchem all card, spellskite stays where it is and i would like a second blasphemous act and a 4th relic on the sb but well see.. so far the main deck stays the same for me, reckoner, stormbreath and koth represent good pressure and the blasphemous/skred/reckoner plan C is something i dont want to give up since sometimes is the only way you can pull off insta wins in situations you would normally draw or lose.
Im also inclined to test Zealoous consrpits cause of the i steal Karn, Ugin, Ulamog factor.. but it is probably not needed..
Im tinkering with Fracturing Gust over shatterstorm and it seems fine to get to 5 mana before dying vs affinity and the lifegain is awesome so it may be a great choice, but i still need to test further.
Also im toying with the idea of using Sword of light and shadow and or Sword of fire and ice.. but im not sure if they are worth the risk of not having the best protections around.
Another thing to try out is Outpost siege, against some grindier matchups that arent really that hurt by the Moon effects it could be pretty useful..
Well, simiam spirit guide is a lot worse than a noble hierarch in a shell with green, also this does different things than skred, and as said above you can maximize the chances of puting a moon effect on the board by turn 2. Skred is a good deck if the meta is aggro oriented but this fights against weak manabases and can beat a lot of unwinnable or at least hard to desl matches for skred like ur delver, grixis etc...
Wow i can't believe its almost a year since i posted the deck here, well just a little update for anyone interested, i have been playing all year with it and with good results for the most part, although the metagame has changed quite a bit since last year, well a lot of the key facts are still true.
The moon effect is devastating to something like the 80% of the field.
The protections from the Stormbreath Dragon, and The sword of War and Peace is still awesome.
I have made some changes to improve the match against burn because at some point there was a lot of that over here, so i changed 3 Burning Tree Shaman for 3 Obstinate Baloth on the mainboard, becaus ethe Shaman didnt really helped a lot and the Baloth also helps against Liliana which was one of the reasons the Centaurs were here.
Also the SB is changed and looks similar to this.
2 Combust (Twin in all forms and shapes)
3 Spellskite (Twin, Auras and Infect plus a lot of heavy removal decks)
2 Boil (Scapeshift, UR Twin, American Control)
2 Relic of Progenitus (al grave strategies and some snapcaster decks, sometimes the ooze is not enough)
1 Krosan Grip (Twin, and it doesnt hurt vs affinity, this could be a 3rd combust but serves almost the same purpose in the Twin matchup)
3 anger of the Gods (Melira,and all collected decks, also Affinity, Hatebears, you name it..)
2 Shatterstorm (need i say AFFINITY is a tough match nonetheless..)
Hey guys, well after 6 months of piloting this idea, ill share my List here... it has been great since the meta was filled with infect, affinity and burn that it utterly destroyed, it did farely well against bloom titan and abzan decks and against UR Twin it is at least a 50%-50% match, the bad matchups in my opinion are Scapeshift and Tron specially the UTron variant.
// Spells
3 [RTR] Detention Sphere
3 [LRW] Cryptic Command
4 [CMD] Path to Exile
2 [RTR] Supreme Verdict
4 [RAV] Remand
1 [B] Wrath of God
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [NPH] Spellskite
SB: 2 [M12] Celestial Purge
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 [MI] Mind Bend
SB: 2 [SOK] Kataki, War's Wage
SB: 3 [ISD] Geist of Saint Traft
Everything creates card advantage and it develops pretty solid while maintaining board position, the Sun titan is the big game and most of the time it seals the deal, although it punishes you more than a lot of other decks whenever you make a mistake.
The SB is as i said tuned to the past metagame but it has changed now and this is why i ask you, how to change it now?.. im baffled.
Explaining what i ran well, leylines against burn and discard, skites vs infect, twin and heavy removal, kataki vs Affinity (just to be sure haha) Geist vs Tron and control decks ( although i dont really like it but sometimes we need to put that pressure), Celestial purge vs Liliana, Blood moon, Splinter Twin, Mind bend is just to get rid of Choke in a very cute way, it also helps vs Blood Moon.
Well i have to say GW hatebears is a pretty good match and post board even better, faeries dies to a moon if you play it correctly and as for merfolks im guessing the match is pretty much like the hatebears match ( cause of the vial) and slightly worse cause they don't care a lot about the moons but i doubt combust would help a lot there. Still as i have said it all depends on the meta, over here nobody plays neither merfolk not faeries...
I must say that yeah in a lot of cases Tarmo would be better but also in a lot of others he just sits there being a 2/3 because you don't really have a way to fill your grave and your opponent is locked under a moon ( this case is mostly relevant if the deck is working like we want it to), and yes he is very killable but i would say that on this meta there are 2 decks that play abrupt decay and slaughter pact (jund & junk), and only one that plays either terminate or maelstrom pulse that being jund, as for the supreme verdict and path to exile well you will most likely take those out for a boil, relic or baloths.
On the other hand he is amazing in matches like splinter twin, birthing pod, Tron and even affinity, trust me you would always prefer to have him instead of a goyf in those matches. There are matches when he is just meh like Burn, Merfolks, UW control and even American control but he is not strictly worse than a goyf there.
And yes you are right the anti-synergy he creates with scavenging ooze, spellskite and the sword really ticks me the wrong way but even with this being said he is totally worth it in my opinion because hey pay 3 instead of 2 life to protect your moon or dragon using a spellskite most likely translates into im still winning if you cannot destroy that thing you want. The sword give syou life so it negates the drawback, and its the same for the ooze so you are not really losing there you are just not gaining life, but you have to play it smart. And as for the fetchlands well most of the time syoull play one or 2 fetchlands before he gets into play and after that you will most likely try to land a moon or you would have landed it before he even gets into play so youll keep tapping them as mountains.
I know hes an odd choice but test him out and you'll see what i mean hes that good to include him instead of that fat beater
as for the kitchen finks well im not debating them they are great and if the meta is a lot more aggressive you should include them but so far 3 ooze 3 huntmaster 2 baloth and 3 swords can net you tons of life against a burn deck, yeah the first game is almost unwinnable but the second and third you will be playing turbo beaters that give you life :P.. so its manageable.
combust is not something i recommend unless your meta is like 70% splinter twin, Kiki Twin, Tarmo Twin.. it really is too narrow and as I've said before we have already 3 cards on the main to stall and 4 on the side to hose.
On another note, yesterday as i tested vs Black Eldrazi i won 4 of 6 matches the key is an early blodo moon.. it all depended on that since if they didnt discard it they just flop to it. The matches i lost was a combination of exaclty that and being beaten by reality smasher on turn 3 and a second one on turn 4.. that card is a damn beast, best card on OGW for modern with the seer so far and they are close.. specially against us the smasher is almost unkillable.
This led me to think of the best ways to get rid of it and i think that perilous vault is the best bet so far.... then it clicked with me.. and what if we used it? we could get rid of the blood moon, or send it to the sb?.. or we could still play it on main and rely on mindstones solely to cast it, and also what about thought knot seer if we are at it?.. something like.
4 reality smasher
4 thought knot seer
4 mind stone
4 skred
4 lightning bolt
4 anger of the gods
4 koth of the hammer
3 relic of progenitus
3 blood moon
3 molten rain
3 scrying sheets
2 mouth of ronom
18 snow covered mountain
Im not sure about this. i want to also try pia and kiran nalaar... ill keep on it... oh and if any of you play on MWS look for me there.. im The Horror.
The black eldrazi deck seems to suffer a lot more from the moon and land destruction than GR tron too, so far i dont see it as a particularly bad matchup.
Im liking the idea of th goblin dark-dwellers rebuying me a molten rain or an anger of the gods.. a bolt and or a skred arent that great though.. i dunno ill test them out.. as for chandra flamecaller i dunno.. 6 mana.. mm ill give it a try.
One thing is for sure.. im not cuting reckoner and blasphemous they re great, and although i like the idea of srhapnel blast and pia nalar it seems a lot more sinergy dependant thus more unstable.
I have to check thunderbreak regent but i dunno.. in my 4 mana slot i almost all the time will want to play koth..
Welll i have won several FNM, PPTQ and GPT.. i even got in top 4 of my Regional PTQ and im qualified for Pro tour Atlanta cause of it.
Here is the list i was using just until before the TWIN ban..( that was also one of if not our worst matchup so yaaay).
// Lands
2 [CS] Scrying Sheets
21 [CS] Snow-Covered Mountain
1 [CS] Mouth of Ronom
// Creatures
3 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
3 [THS] Stormbreath Dragon
4 [GTC] Boros Reckoner
// Spells
4 [SOM] Koth of the Hammer
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
3 [9E] Blood Moon
4 [M11] Lightning Bolt
4 [CS] Skred
1 [ISD] Blasphemous Act
3 [MR] Molten Rain
4 [THS] Anger of the Gods
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [TE] Boil
SB: 2 [10E] Shatterstorm
SB: 2 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 2 [MR] Oblivion Stone
SB: 3 [DS] Dragon's Claw
SB: 2 [M11] Combust
SB: 2 [NPH] Spellskite
Back then the worst match as i said wa UR twin and we had good to great matchups vs almost all of the Meta, but now we have a different monster in our laps which is GR Tron and Black Eldrazi..
So far im really thinking about playing this on the PT, i believe that it has a relatively good match vs GR Tron, im not so sure about Black Eldrazi i would have to test more, but im also sure that because of these 2 decks there will be a lot more of the other decks that beat these 2 so im expecting a lot of affinity, zoo, collected company, burn, infect and some jeskai control/kiki Resto, and Kiki chord decks.. And with Skred on my side im fine with all of those matches im even fine vs Scapeshift and i believe the 2 new bad matchups would be Boggles ( its a coin toss really, and Storm and maybe Ad Nauseam).
With all this in mind i believe that cutting the simian spirit guides is a big mistake, the turn 2 moon play is not only powerful it also makes the opponent play around it even if you cant cast it, it is the same with the relics, i wont cut them from the main because it not only shrinks tarmogoyf or keeps snapcaster on check, it also helps vs Knightfall, Melira, Infect (become inmense), Grixis Delve. I have been thinking of the tweaks on the sb for thi new meta and so far i think ill trade the oblivion stones ( that were there to destroy kor firewalker, etched champions and are overal better than a pyrite spellbomb since they are also sweepers) for PErilous vault,they execute mostly at the same speed but Vault also helps on the Boggle match.
Im not sure if the shattering spree will be needed but 2 shatterstorm need to stay affinity is a ***** haha, and they alsoare needed on case you ran into a lantern deck. Boil has to go along with Combust as they are no longer needed.
Crumble to dust i believe it has to go in as a 2 off on the sb to put a nail on the coffin of the tron and eldrazi matchups and i believe pithing needle would be sufficient to help as a catchem all card, spellskite stays where it is and i would like a second blasphemous act and a 4th relic on the sb but well see.. so far the main deck stays the same for me, reckoner, stormbreath and koth represent good pressure and the blasphemous/skred/reckoner plan C is something i dont want to give up since sometimes is the only way you can pull off insta wins in situations you would normally draw or lose.
Im also inclined to test Zealoous consrpits cause of the i steal Karn, Ugin, Ulamog factor.. but it is probably not needed..
so far this is my sb.
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [COK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [10E] Shatterstorm
SB: 2 [AVR] Zealous Consripts
SB: 2 [M15] Perilous Vault
SB: 3 [DS] Dragon's Claw
SB: 2 [BFZ] Crumble to Dust
SB: 2 [NPH] Spellskite
Well what do you think?
Also im toying with the idea of using Sword of light and shadow and or Sword of fire and ice.. but im not sure if they are worth the risk of not having the best protections around.
Another thing to try out is Outpost siege, against some grindier matchups that arent really that hurt by the Moon effects it could be pretty useful..
The moon effect is devastating to something like the 80% of the field.
The protections from the Stormbreath Dragon, and The sword of War and Peace is still awesome.
I have made some changes to improve the match against burn because at some point there was a lot of that over here, so i changed 3 Burning Tree Shaman for 3 Obstinate Baloth on the mainboard, becaus ethe Shaman didnt really helped a lot and the Baloth also helps against Liliana which was one of the reasons the Centaurs were here.
Also the SB is changed and looks similar to this.
2 Combust (Twin in all forms and shapes)
3 Spellskite (Twin, Auras and Infect plus a lot of heavy removal decks)
2 Boil (Scapeshift, UR Twin, American Control)
2 Relic of Progenitus (al grave strategies and some snapcaster decks, sometimes the ooze is not enough)
1 Krosan Grip (Twin, and it doesnt hurt vs affinity, this could be a 3rd combust but serves almost the same purpose in the Twin matchup)
3 anger of the Gods (Melira,and all collected decks, also Affinity, Hatebears, you name it..)
2 Shatterstorm (need i say AFFINITY is a tough match nonetheless..)
Cheers.
// Lands
2 [WWK] Celestial Colonnade
3 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
5 [UNH] Island
4 [UNH] Plains
3 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [M10] Glacial Fortress
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
// Creatures
2 [M12] Sun Titan
2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
3 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
3 [CMD] Wall of Omens
3 [AVR] Restoration Angel
3 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
2 [M12] Phantasmal Image
// Spells
3 [RTR] Detention Sphere
3 [LRW] Cryptic Command
4 [CMD] Path to Exile
2 [RTR] Supreme Verdict
4 [RAV] Remand
1 [B] Wrath of God
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [NPH] Spellskite
SB: 2 [M12] Celestial Purge
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 [MI] Mind Bend
SB: 2 [SOK] Kataki, War's Wage
SB: 3 [ISD] Geist of Saint Traft
Everything creates card advantage and it develops pretty solid while maintaining board position, the Sun titan is the big game and most of the time it seals the deal, although it punishes you more than a lot of other decks whenever you make a mistake.
The SB is as i said tuned to the past metagame but it has changed now and this is why i ask you, how to change it now?.. im baffled.
Explaining what i ran well, leylines against burn and discard, skites vs infect, twin and heavy removal, kataki vs Affinity (just to be sure haha) Geist vs Tron and control decks ( although i dont really like it but sometimes we need to put that pressure), Celestial purge vs Liliana, Blood moon, Splinter Twin, Mind bend is just to get rid of Choke in a very cute way, it also helps vs Blood Moon.
http://www.necrotower.com/articulos/vintage-magic-eclipse-lunar-en-el-ptq-honolulu
I must say that yeah in a lot of cases Tarmo would be better but also in a lot of others he just sits there being a 2/3 because you don't really have a way to fill your grave and your opponent is locked under a moon ( this case is mostly relevant if the deck is working like we want it to), and yes he is very killable but i would say that on this meta there are 2 decks that play abrupt decay and slaughter pact (jund & junk), and only one that plays either terminate or maelstrom pulse that being jund, as for the supreme verdict and path to exile well you will most likely take those out for a boil, relic or baloths.
On the other hand he is amazing in matches like splinter twin, birthing pod, Tron and even affinity, trust me you would always prefer to have him instead of a goyf in those matches. There are matches when he is just meh like Burn, Merfolks, UW control and even American control but he is not strictly worse than a goyf there.
And yes you are right the anti-synergy he creates with scavenging ooze, spellskite and the sword really ticks me the wrong way but even with this being said he is totally worth it in my opinion because hey pay 3 instead of 2 life to protect your moon or dragon using a spellskite most likely translates into im still winning if you cannot destroy that thing you want. The sword give syou life so it negates the drawback, and its the same for the ooze so you are not really losing there you are just not gaining life, but you have to play it smart. And as for the fetchlands well most of the time syoull play one or 2 fetchlands before he gets into play and after that you will most likely try to land a moon or you would have landed it before he even gets into play so youll keep tapping them as mountains.
I know hes an odd choice but test him out and you'll see what i mean hes that good to include him instead of that fat beater
as for the kitchen finks well im not debating them they are great and if the meta is a lot more aggressive you should include them but so far 3 ooze 3 huntmaster 2 baloth and 3 swords can net you tons of life against a burn deck, yeah the first game is almost unwinnable but the second and third you will be playing turbo beaters that give you life :P.. so its manageable.
combust is not something i recommend unless your meta is like 70% splinter twin, Kiki Twin, Tarmo Twin.. it really is too narrow and as I've said before we have already 3 cards on the main to stall and 4 on the side to hose.
Lemme know what you think.