This is absolutely my favorite kind of deck. I play a 5c deck that's essentially a "global police" deck. That is, you should probably have someone at the table whose main contribution is destroying peoples' Sensei's Divining Tops so the game can end at a reasonable hour. I run a LOT of Wrath effects, which means that I run few creatures. I think I have only Fog Bank, Wall of Denial and Rector in there right now. That has forced me to be a bit creative with my win conditions. Currently, I aim to just slam someone with Cromat over and over, or Ultimate a Planeswalker on someone. The biggest trick to surviving is to stress to other players how valuable you are and how non-threatening you are.
I trimmed the deck over time, but at one point, it had an innocuous combo win. I would get Dream Halls out and then cast Conflux, getting All Suns' Dawn and Cruel Ultimatum, among other targets. ASD recurs your Conflux and you can basically start chaining damage spells like Cruel into itself. If you do this, you need plenty of gold spells.
If you REALLY want a cool win condition, it goes like this: float mana for your general. Cast Cryptic Command (bounce:draw) and then Radiate it. The whole board gets bounced and you draw huge chunks of cards. Cast that General and cruise in for the win! I'd often set that up with my Dream Halls combo so that I would have plenty of cards to discard to Dream Halls.
If you plan on playing with the same group over time, you have to make sure your kill isn't a two-card combo or people will hate you out of existence. Magister Sphinx makes a superb one-card combo to kill off problematic players.
The main edge that Cromat has is that it has some pretty useful abilities if you want to make a deck that doesn't rely on the general. Sliver Overlord, of course, is much stronger if you want to devote 3+ slots in your deck to it. Child of Alara is also powerful if you don't mind getting your Lightning Greaves or Gilded Lotus blown away. Cromat does a decent job of being annoying without any extra support, which is why I run it.
I've got a 5c "fun stuff" deck with many permanents like Sun Droplet and Inheritance, which means that boardwipe from Child of Alara would be counterproductive. Since I'm light on win conditions in the deck anyway, I went with an option that would get through some serious damage. I went with Cromat.
Cromat has a few relevant abilities - with enough mana, it can jump up and insta-kill anything attacking you. It inefficiently firebreathes and can avoid tuck effects. Aside from Scion, it's the only 5c general that can fly, so you have a good chance of killing people with general damage. The biggest downside to Cromat, for me, is that I need an English copy because I can't remember everything that it does!
If you're dead-set against Cromat, then Sliver Overlord is a good choice; Slivers are The Real Deal in Commander. If you run the Overlord, I highly suggest Amoeboid Changeling . It's one of the best Slivers with Overlord because it can make anything a Sliver for the purposes of burgling their guys.
We can look at the card as it appears on paper (which people in this thread are doing), but we are neglecting the political impact of the card. Fact or Fiction is especially absurd in multiplayer formats because you can put people in situations where they will give you 5-0 piles. The same is easily possible with this card.
You can push politics with help or fear. If you want someone to help you, you can say "hey, I'm going to cast this Sphinx next turn. I want you to split the piles 5-0, and I'll make sure that the monster attacking you/that Winter Orb/Mishra's Helix goes away. Can I count on you?" If you want to use fear, you can go with "do this or I'll attack you" or "do this or I will Krosan Grip that Thran Dynamo you've been using to stay in the game."
I think you'll find that cutting deals makes this Sphinx into much more of a draw-5 than you think. There's no need to recur it for good value. If someone breaks their word, punish them severely. If they keep it, reward them lavishly. We pay 6 mana for Opportunity and 5 for Tidings, so this is a fine card when you've got enough clout on the board to get five cards from it.
Krosan Verge is also very good; it accelerates and, since it can grab duals, does a crazy amount of color fixing. You can grab Bayou and Plateau with it, for example.
Also: Slate of Ancestry has been a consistent Draw-7 every turn. Karn on the battlefield, plus a few dudes, means you draw huge piles from it. You mentioned that Tower and Blueprints were mana-intensive; I agree. However, monobrown isn't great at some things, and drawing lots of threats is one of them. All it takes is one Serenity or Akroma's Vengeance to take care of things, so reloading is essential. You make billions of manas anyway, so pumping 8 into Tower isn't unreasonable. You never get color-screwed, after all...
I'm trying out Karn right now, too. I haven't put in the Mycosynth Lattice/Forge business, since they're expensive to purchase and Karn seems to do fine without them.
I suggest some card drawing over card selection. Both Scroll Rack and Top disappointed me when I played them, since you lack realistic shuffle effects. Tower of Fortunes and Urza's Blueprints are both solid (and seriously, it's worth running both).
I have also gotten a surprising amount of mileage out of Steel Overseer. It is low on the curve, which is good because Karn lacks cheap drops. One situation had me animating my artifacts with Karn and putting counters on them with the Overseer. The counters stay on them even when they cease to be artifacts, which led to scenarios where I was attacking with a 7/7 Crystal Ball and a 9/9 Thran Dynamo.
I just cut Warhammer from my stack; I love the effect and the ability to make any of your artifacts into a trampling monster, but paying 3+1 every turn to make a reasonable attacker isn't a solid plan. I didn't run many creatures, but you might have more to work with.
There is also a strong possibility that you have too much mana ramping. I would much rather have Ur-Golem's Eye over the Monoliths, since one-shot mana hasn't been great for me unless it's accelerating into permanent sources of mana like Worn Powerstone. Another element against the Monoliths is that they are bad attackers with Karn. If I win a game with Karn, it's because I have a bunch of brown machines coming in, and I'd rather have a 4/4 that always attacks than a 2/2 that gets to hit once.
I play a semi-competitive list, so bear in mind that my choices reflect the fact that I don't want to lock people out of the game.
It was brought up in passing way back on page 6, but I'd like to elaborate on Dreams of the Dead a little more. It is one of the few relatively painless and recurring forms of reanimation, in a color that you wouldn't expect. The cumulative upkeep keeps it fair, of course, but who isn't going to pay 2 to get an extra attack with Akroma, Sphinx of the Steel Wind or the like? It reanimates at instant speed, which means that your Wall of Denial immediately springs up to block, just for 1U.
Dreams of the Dead gets especially sick when you combine it with ETBs like Karmic Guide, Shriekmaw, Loxodon Hierarch, Sharuum, Angel of Despair and so on.
I'm interested in whether anyone else has played around with it and what their results were. It only slots into certain kinds of decks, but it has been potent, in my experience.
Fixed. Looking into what caused this; I think it has to do with some changes in our member software, or evil and malicious multnational conglomerates : )
If you ever get this released in paper, let me know. I love it so far, but I have trouble reading ebooks.
Also, as long as you QS people are reading this, move the articles away from "what deck to play" and back more to MtG finance, please. I find it much more interesting, and I can already read strategy on SCG.
We are expanding, not diminishing our finance section! If you only want to read finance, you can bookmark the "Finance" tab at the top of the page and then just go there for only money-related articles : )
We are exploring print-on-demand, since it has lowered the cost of physical books. I also wanted like heck to get images of cards into the book, but I also don't want to get sued by WOTC. I just finished up a Copyright Law course and I am pretty sure we aren't doing fair use! I don't know how *other* ebooks about Magic got the images in - either they have licenses to do it or they are just breaking the law. But I'm looking into it, because showing the opening hands in the examples would be really, really cool!
Hi : ) I was an editor on the book, so I think I can answer some of these questions.
The file is a PDF; if you can read the sample chapter on your iPad, you are probably set for the whole thing.
I have gotten some early responses from readers using Kindles; they say that it is easy to read when you convert it to the Amazon format, but that the tables are a little off. I am currently thinking of the best way to solve this, since the normal PDF font is too small for some on a Kindle. We are thinking of releasing a "large print" version of subsequent books, but for now, I am focusing on how to make things ereader-friendly. Tips are welcome!
If you haven't sold them by now then you've missed the boat. The best you can hope for is to cut your losses and sell for $25ish. If you sold them a week or more ago then you probably just got lucky.
At this point, even if it doesn't get banned then it won't shoot back up right away. The short-term damage is already done. Honestly, I don't see how it doesn't get banned now, as it wouldn't really surprise anybody.
Also, justifying your decision to keep them by saying that you only paid $10 doesn't mean that you're not losing the same amount of money as someone who paid $40.
That last part is actually pretty intuitive when it comes to accounting. The "book value" of those cards would be $10, which is what he paid for them, but the market value might be a lot different! Spotting these kind of things, like you did, is a great way to grow as a trader. If you value your SOTF as a nostalgic thing, great, but if you view them as an asset that, at some point, you might sell, then your point that people are "losing" that $30 even if they don't sell is an important point.
Or to put it another way, this anecdote attributed to George Bernard Shaw is appropriate:
A certain gentleman inquired of a lady whether she would be willing to sleep with him for 50,000 pounds. After some hesitation, the lady replied that she supposed she would, in consideration of the magnitude of the offer. Then he asked whether she would sleep with him for twopence.
"Certainly not," she responded with indignation. "Just what kind of lady do you think I am?"
"Madam, I believe we have already established that," he remarked calmly. "Now we are just haggling over the price
If you, indeed, do have a price, then it's best to know what it actually is, since the buy prices for SOTFs might never equal what they are now : )
I was going to read this till you to jumped on the "omg scg open results = ban it" bandwagon, then I decided it probably is not worth it, though I do reccomend the other peoples articles on QS as they are usually very good.
It might behoove you to actually read it anyway, but maybe this is an inappropriate article for you to digest.
I had not considered Loyal Retainers, since hey, I don't own any, but the same analysis would apply here, too. I don't see them taking a huge nosedive because they are rarer than leprechauns, but basically all of their competitive value comes from play in SOTF builds. It would have been just as relevant to post about it, but I am sure less people would be interested to read it : )
Rather than go through the policy or play reasons for why Survival should be banned or legal (since you can read a lot of that on this site already!), I wrote up a handy article breaking down how to figure out whether you should cash in:
Minimal math required, I warn you. This approach works with a lot of cards, especially when they are near banning times. If you have SOTFs and you don't know whether to blow them out for money or hold onto them, give this a read. You'll get a sense of how to value your cards, as well as maybe learn some business principles!
The article is hosted on my website, quietspeculation.com so take a little while to poke around and get a sense of the site. We look at Magic from a financial angle with the hope of making you some money while trading and playing!
With the recent success of SOTF decks at the SCG Opens, it looks like the green Enchantment's days are numbered!
I trimmed the deck over time, but at one point, it had an innocuous combo win. I would get Dream Halls out and then cast Conflux, getting All Suns' Dawn and Cruel Ultimatum, among other targets. ASD recurs your Conflux and you can basically start chaining damage spells like Cruel into itself. If you do this, you need plenty of gold spells.
If you REALLY want a cool win condition, it goes like this: float mana for your general. Cast Cryptic Command (bounce:draw) and then Radiate it. The whole board gets bounced and you draw huge chunks of cards. Cast that General and cruise in for the win! I'd often set that up with my Dream Halls combo so that I would have plenty of cards to discard to Dream Halls.
If you plan on playing with the same group over time, you have to make sure your kill isn't a two-card combo or people will hate you out of existence. Magister Sphinx makes a superb one-card combo to kill off problematic players.
Cromat has a few relevant abilities - with enough mana, it can jump up and insta-kill anything attacking you. It inefficiently firebreathes and can avoid tuck effects. Aside from Scion, it's the only 5c general that can fly, so you have a good chance of killing people with general damage. The biggest downside to Cromat, for me, is that I need an English copy because I can't remember everything that it does!
If you're dead-set against Cromat, then Sliver Overlord is a good choice; Slivers are The Real Deal in Commander. If you run the Overlord, I highly suggest Amoeboid Changeling . It's one of the best Slivers with Overlord because it can make anything a Sliver for the purposes of burgling their guys.
You can push politics with help or fear. If you want someone to help you, you can say "hey, I'm going to cast this Sphinx next turn. I want you to split the piles 5-0, and I'll make sure that the monster attacking you/that Winter Orb/Mishra's Helix goes away. Can I count on you?" If you want to use fear, you can go with "do this or I'll attack you" or "do this or I will Krosan Grip that Thran Dynamo you've been using to stay in the game."
I think you'll find that cutting deals makes this Sphinx into much more of a draw-5 than you think. There's no need to recur it for good value. If someone breaks their word, punish them severely. If they keep it, reward them lavishly. We pay 6 mana for Opportunity and 5 for Tidings, so this is a fine card when you've got enough clout on the board to get five cards from it.
I suggest some card drawing over card selection. Both Scroll Rack and Top disappointed me when I played them, since you lack realistic shuffle effects. Tower of Fortunes and Urza's Blueprints are both solid (and seriously, it's worth running both).
Scorched Ruins is incredible, even in the face of LD.
I have also gotten a surprising amount of mileage out of Steel Overseer. It is low on the curve, which is good because Karn lacks cheap drops. One situation had me animating my artifacts with Karn and putting counters on them with the Overseer. The counters stay on them even when they cease to be artifacts, which led to scenarios where I was attacking with a 7/7 Crystal Ball and a 9/9 Thran Dynamo.
Unwinding Clock is pleasant, too. You can use Planar Portal and Predator, Flagship each turn!
I just cut Warhammer from my stack; I love the effect and the ability to make any of your artifacts into a trampling monster, but paying 3+1 every turn to make a reasonable attacker isn't a solid plan. I didn't run many creatures, but you might have more to work with.
There is also a strong possibility that you have too much mana ramping. I would much rather have Ur-Golem's Eye over the Monoliths, since one-shot mana hasn't been great for me unless it's accelerating into permanent sources of mana like Worn Powerstone. Another element against the Monoliths is that they are bad attackers with Karn. If I win a game with Karn, it's because I have a bunch of brown machines coming in, and I'd rather have a 4/4 that always attacks than a 2/2 that gets to hit once.
I play a semi-competitive list, so bear in mind that my choices reflect the fact that I don't want to lock people out of the game.
Dreams of the Dead gets especially sick when you combine it with ETBs like Karmic Guide, Shriekmaw, Loxodon Hierarch, Sharuum, Angel of Despair and so on.
I'm interested in whether anyone else has played around with it and what their results were. It only slots into certain kinds of decks, but it has been potent, in my experience.
We are expanding, not diminishing our finance section! If you only want to read finance, you can bookmark the "Finance" tab at the top of the page and then just go there for only money-related articles : )
We are exploring print-on-demand, since it has lowered the cost of physical books. I also wanted like heck to get images of cards into the book, but I also don't want to get sued by WOTC. I just finished up a Copyright Law course and I am pretty sure we aren't doing fair use! I don't know how *other* ebooks about Magic got the images in - either they have licenses to do it or they are just breaking the law. But I'm looking into it, because showing the opening hands in the examples would be really, really cool!
Hi : ) I was an editor on the book, so I think I can answer some of these questions.
The file is a PDF; if you can read the sample chapter on your iPad, you are probably set for the whole thing.
I have gotten some early responses from readers using Kindles; they say that it is easy to read when you convert it to the Amazon format, but that the tables are a little off. I am currently thinking of the best way to solve this, since the normal PDF font is too small for some on a Kindle. We are thinking of releasing a "large print" version of subsequent books, but for now, I am focusing on how to make things ereader-friendly. Tips are welcome!
That last part is actually pretty intuitive when it comes to accounting. The "book value" of those cards would be $10, which is what he paid for them, but the market value might be a lot different! Spotting these kind of things, like you did, is a great way to grow as a trader. If you value your SOTF as a nostalgic thing, great, but if you view them as an asset that, at some point, you might sell, then your point that people are "losing" that $30 even if they don't sell is an important point.
Or to put it another way, this anecdote attributed to George Bernard Shaw is appropriate:
If you, indeed, do have a price, then it's best to know what it actually is, since the buy prices for SOTFs might never equal what they are now : )
It might behoove you to actually read it anyway, but maybe this is an inappropriate article for you to digest.
I had not considered Loyal Retainers, since hey, I don't own any, but the same analysis would apply here, too. I don't see them taking a huge nosedive because they are rarer than leprechauns, but basically all of their competitive value comes from play in SOTF builds. It would have been just as relevant to post about it, but I am sure less people would be interested to read it : )
http://bit.ly/9ZCBqe
Minimal math required, I warn you. This approach works with a lot of cards, especially when they are near banning times. If you have SOTFs and you don't know whether to blow them out for money or hold onto them, give this a read. You'll get a sense of how to value your cards, as well as maybe learn some business principles!
The article is hosted on my website, quietspeculation.com so take a little while to poke around and get a sense of the site. We look at Magic from a financial angle with the hope of making you some money while trading and playing!
With the recent success of SOTF decks at the SCG Opens, it looks like the green Enchantment's days are numbered!