Lol. Didn't take long for someone to bring up the ole it's easy to play good decks canard. There's only one deck that should be winning consistently on turn 4-5 and that's Scion/Hermit Druid and that deck is brutal to pilot correctly. In fact all the high winning percentage decks involve pretty intensive decision making.
Any other deck doing so is just not being answered. Much like the other two people in this game did nothing to stop a huge early threat. Gee, he just doubled his mana, I'm sure nothing bad is going to come of that. The name of the game was no inf/no MLD, not no answers.
You quoted me but didn't address my point. They are easy decks to play, that game did not take skill for him to play, and clearly was not enjoyable for the other people. Congrats he won on turn 4, got kicked out another room, this clearly happens enough for him to be pushed to post on here, and they went on playing the enjoyable game they were looking for.
No matter how much rationalization is done, there is clearly a person that is getting kicked out of enough games for his decks, fine, maybe they are super skillful, the most skillful decks in the world are mono-green, but obviously his opponents are not finding his turn 4 wins fun. Which is the real issue.
I don't have a reference to self-evaluate the decks I'm playing versus the expectations of other people because I can't import their thoughts into my head.
The OP can play what's a very casual Mono-G ramp deck, and then make the mistake(?) of including powerful ramp cards like Rofellos instead of deliberately bad, precon-level ones like Spoils of Victory, then get kicked as a result. Or you can play a very one-dimensional creature beatdown plan, make the mistake(?) in choosing a good general like Rafiq of the Many or Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon, and also get booted as a result. I can also deliberately play a deck full of 1/1's, then get attacked into the ground and raged on when I attack a player with them.
The only conclusion for a rational mind to draw there is that the other players expect you to play deliberately bad cards and do nothing to try to win the game. Then you look on the other side of the table to see if that commitment is bi-lateral, and you see Mono-U Azami combo decks and so forth. Players just have no commitment to one another of any kind, so it's completely irrational to impute duties to yourself or other players, even if it were possible to arrive on a mutual understanding of what those duties would be. Which, of course, it's not.
This is a lazy mans excuse. I played Arcum for maybe 3 months, every game I got teamed on first for that 3 months. Now I can say, man I can't read these peoples minds, what is causing them to attack me first, or I can be an adult and exhibit some empathy. But hey, its better to come gripe on a forum about how no one wants to play with you after your turn 4 win. Lets look at another adult example, this is largely for people who play with other real people, sorry but virtual magic makes people do things that gets them kicked out games. I start with a nuts draw, easy turn 2-3 win, perhaps a mana rock, couple of lands, and my combo pieces to go infinite and a draw engine, this often happened in my SekKuar deck, turn 4-5 wins with first draws, I could go and do that end the game on turn 4, or I could put some of the cards back. Why would anyone do this you ask, why not win on turn 5 with my great hand? Well for that you would need to be willing to have a different experience then some players on here are willing to have. Now I didn't have to read anyones mind, I didn't have to gain magical powers or "impute duties to yourself" I simply had to realize that winning on turn 4-5 is not fun for anyone. Not fun for me, the game just starting then ending after a couple of land go plays, I didn't get to see any of the other decks which is usually an enjoyable thing, I barely had time to talk to anyone, turn 4 is usually 6 minutes into a game ...
For people who play Magic simply to win, knock yourself out, keep turn 4 winning and getting kicked out of games, and passed over for games. I am sure its more enjoyable for you to have the clutch win under your belt, then to have some conversation and meet new people and see different deck ideas.
So you're saying the the affinity for slow, predictable decks is a fundamental truth grasped intuitively by all mankind. Who's being unrealistic?
No, I am saying if you often find yourself excluded, or kicked out of games, there is probably a reason for it. You can self-evaluate the decks you are playing, or attempt to rationalize it further. Its not me getting kicked out of games then having to post on mtgsalvation hoping people will make me feel better, and its not me getting skipped over for games.
I think the people that find themselves left out of games, or unexpectedly kicked out of games, should look over the decks they play and see perhaps if the problem isn't everyone else ...
This is why I don't play online, people are only interested in winning because there is no actual conversation and enjoyment to be had, so you play to win, then stumble into the next group and repeat.
I don't mind a well tuned deck, or even a deck with some game winning combo's. However if your goal is to win on turn 4 so you can go play another game, then you may as well skip the game I am in. I rather go play magic, have some fun talking to friends / acquaintances, etc.
Also the really sad thing is that people net deck these awesome quick wins and its like ... well anyone can play that deck and win the same way. You didn't even have to make a decision, its not really skillful to have just played the first 3 cards off the top of the deck, so not only is not creative, or interesting to the others players, its not really skillful either.
Don't you ever see any interesting general and want to see the person's deck play out? I would keep someone alive for a few turns if they sat down with a non storm Melek deck, or Talrand, or most of the older generals.
Also this thread was clearly created as a lazy ego stroke, but I don't mind jacking it for a better topic.
This seems more like a Prossh deck then a Shattergang deck. With 2 Grave pact effects already, why bother running the brothers as general when you don't seem to have any reoccurring artifacts or enchantments. Also Fecundity doesn't seem like a good idea, if you are trying to prevent your opponents from playing things, I would think giving them more creatures to play for each creature lost, would work against that. If they are stuck on there standard draw then you just have to make 1 creature for each creature they have, if you start giving them draws, then you have to keep up with that rate.
Has anyone had much luck playing Oloro, I have a largely life gain based deck, but I find he is better to just keep in the Command Zone then to cast for 6 just to draw. Especially with so many other options for drawing that he enables. For instance Necropotence for 2 cards a turn, Phyrexian Arena out and still gain a life, enabling the life gain well, etc.
Has anyone tried Teferi's Puzzle Box? I know you can't Fork it, and its slower, but it seems like it could fit in pretty well. I was thinking of transforming my current Jeleva build to a Nekusar build with a Chains of Mephistopheles lock.
I put him in my Oloro gain life build, excited to try him out. Don't have to worry too much about what I get drawing off the top of other peoples decks since he is there largely to gain life.
Should get to try him out in 2 weeks when everything finally arrives.
Seen your consideration list. I would probably just invest in a Crucible of Worlds if you want to reuse fetches, etc. Instead of a one shot spell like restore. You could even go with Life from the Loam.
reveillark + mirror entity + karmic guide + (any 2 power creature) = infinite recurring of all those creatures.
I don't get why you need Mirror Entity to Karmic Guide loop. You just need a sac outlet. Karmic Guide comes into play, trigger on stack targeting Reveillark, sac Karmic Guide, Reveillark resolves, Reveillark trigger on stack, sac Reveillark, repeat. Not sure what Mirror Entity is suppose to do for the loop.
Edit: Is it for a sac outlet? This is too much work, and potentially hurts your board state, wouldn't a simple sac outlet by infinitely more useful?
If you consider PochetteRecharge's advice, you can run Nim Deathmantle with Ashnods Altar for infinite sac's. I used to run those chains in my Sek'Kuar deck. Makes lots of tokens, lots of mana and depending on whats out, lots of triggers.
Black Market would up your CMC average a bit, but in a deck based on Grave Pact and Shattergang, seems like it could be worth it.
Sanguine bond/exquisite blood seems too clunky for me. My playgroup is rather paranoid about combos, and usually to combo of you need to stick everything at the same time. I don't see that happening very easily with this combo however. I'll give it a try though to see how it goes. If not exquisite blood will probably go in due to the synergy with Oloro.
You could probably run one or the other if you are worried, Sanguine Bond goes better with Oloro probably.
Probably converting my Teysa deck into an Oloro deck. Just a note, you have Hero's Downfall listed twice. I have a lot more token / life gain in the deck list I am testing out however.
Finally a home for my Chains of Mephistopheles. Problem with most Wheel effects is that it will give your opponent ammo to get rid of your general, but not with Chains!
Poor Rubinia is getting retired it seems. More blink please. Since the spoilers are almost half done, it doesn't seem like there is going to be any new blink spells to compliment it unfortunately.
You quoted me but didn't address my point. They are easy decks to play, that game did not take skill for him to play, and clearly was not enjoyable for the other people. Congrats he won on turn 4, got kicked out another room, this clearly happens enough for him to be pushed to post on here, and they went on playing the enjoyable game they were looking for.
No matter how much rationalization is done, there is clearly a person that is getting kicked out of enough games for his decks, fine, maybe they are super skillful, the most skillful decks in the world are mono-green, but obviously his opponents are not finding his turn 4 wins fun. Which is the real issue.
This is a lazy mans excuse. I played Arcum for maybe 3 months, every game I got teamed on first for that 3 months. Now I can say, man I can't read these peoples minds, what is causing them to attack me first, or I can be an adult and exhibit some empathy. But hey, its better to come gripe on a forum about how no one wants to play with you after your turn 4 win. Lets look at another adult example, this is largely for people who play with other real people, sorry but virtual magic makes people do things that gets them kicked out games. I start with a nuts draw, easy turn 2-3 win, perhaps a mana rock, couple of lands, and my combo pieces to go infinite and a draw engine, this often happened in my SekKuar deck, turn 4-5 wins with first draws, I could go and do that end the game on turn 4, or I could put some of the cards back. Why would anyone do this you ask, why not win on turn 5 with my great hand? Well for that you would need to be willing to have a different experience then some players on here are willing to have. Now I didn't have to read anyones mind, I didn't have to gain magical powers or "impute duties to yourself" I simply had to realize that winning on turn 4-5 is not fun for anyone. Not fun for me, the game just starting then ending after a couple of land go plays, I didn't get to see any of the other decks which is usually an enjoyable thing, I barely had time to talk to anyone, turn 4 is usually 6 minutes into a game ...
For people who play Magic simply to win, knock yourself out, keep turn 4 winning and getting kicked out of games, and passed over for games. I am sure its more enjoyable for you to have the clutch win under your belt, then to have some conversation and meet new people and see different deck ideas.
No, I am saying if you often find yourself excluded, or kicked out of games, there is probably a reason for it. You can self-evaluate the decks you are playing, or attempt to rationalize it further. Its not me getting kicked out of games then having to post on mtgsalvation hoping people will make me feel better, and its not me getting skipped over for games.
I don't mind a well tuned deck, or even a deck with some game winning combo's. However if your goal is to win on turn 4 so you can go play another game, then you may as well skip the game I am in. I rather go play magic, have some fun talking to friends / acquaintances, etc.
Also the really sad thing is that people net deck these awesome quick wins and its like ... well anyone can play that deck and win the same way. You didn't even have to make a decision, its not really skillful to have just played the first 3 cards off the top of the deck, so not only is not creative, or interesting to the others players, its not really skillful either.
Don't you ever see any interesting general and want to see the person's deck play out? I would keep someone alive for a few turns if they sat down with a non storm Melek deck, or Talrand, or most of the older generals.
Also this thread was clearly created as a lazy ego stroke, but I don't mind jacking it for a better topic.
Should get to try him out in 2 weeks when everything finally arrives.
I don't get why you need Mirror Entity to Karmic Guide loop. You just need a sac outlet. Karmic Guide comes into play, trigger on stack targeting Reveillark, sac Karmic Guide, Reveillark resolves, Reveillark trigger on stack, sac Reveillark, repeat. Not sure what Mirror Entity is suppose to do for the loop.
Edit: Is it for a sac outlet? This is too much work, and potentially hurts your board state, wouldn't a simple sac outlet by infinitely more useful?
Black Market would up your CMC average a bit, but in a deck based on Grave Pact and Shattergang, seems like it could be worth it.
You could probably run one or the other if you are worried, Sanguine Bond goes better with Oloro probably.
This is a deck that is going to make people sad.