Anyone consider Sakashima the Impostor? She's a clone (already useful) that can be used to copy Nekusar without running into the Legend Rule.
She is one of the very few creatures that I run in my build. Why not double up on the enjoyment. She can also help in case I need to copy something else, but that has yet to come up yet.
I kept 2 infect cards in my build, largely because a wheel + a copy + an infect is game. If its not stopped obviously in some way. Thats really only 6-7 mana at its cheapest. If you can make 14 dmg game instead, I say its worth a card or two.
I started running a few cards that shut things down: Damping Matrix, Torpor Orb, Overburden and just picked up a Grafdigger's Cage to throw in there as well. Shutting down options seems to leave cards in hands, which is hard to quantify.
I was on the fence about the cage because I run Past in Flames and Yawgmoth's Will, but the benefit is that I don't have to worry about feeding any reanimate strategies at the same time.
I won a game the other day off of a Chains of Mephistopheles / Teferi's Puzzlebox lock. I was debating taking them out, but I would have been dead in the water if it wasn't for the combo, so its staying for now. Having a bunch of fun with the deck and picked up a Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond for a little faster mana. Tainted Aether came through that game as an all star as well until Cyclonic Rift saved me from a general kill and sealed the game.
Also picked up a Gemstone Caverns, but have not had it in the opening hand yet =(
Since I run him in Animar, its typically Peregrine Drake, then the mayhem begins of dumping my hand onto the table and sometimes the deck. If not he fetches one of the 6+ Clone variants in the deck typically to get me a copy of the best on the board.
Agent of the Fates just doesn't do it for me. In a game/meta where my creatures are lost by not being targeted, I see it just not being a threat. It isnt big enough to swing with. Sure it might get in 2-6 damage but its easily able to get around.
SluggishnessI played with. I have found my self not using the enchantment sac as much as I thought. Rancor and Aspect of Mongoose are running just fine for me
Finally for your last comment, I can see your way as being viable. Do you seem to run into not having enough mana for cards like Endless Cockroaches. It is nice though if you get the full trigger-recursion package.
The good thing about Agent is that you can put Rancor on him, forcing a sac from everyone, then sac the enchantment with Shattergang for another enchantment sac. He works as his own Gravepact+ for just 5 mana, cost of enchantment + cost to sac enchantment. I run Liquidmetal Coating, and while it hasn't come up, I can't wait until I can turn Slugishness into an artifact after enchanting Agent of Fates, and force an artifact sac + creature sac instead. Not as many enchantments typically in my meta.
I don't run Slugishness as a good card, just as more chance to get an reoccurring enchantment. Roaches just requires 6 mana to sac every turn, and they come back without the life penalty of the 2 mana roaches. Skeletons are great because they come back into play, but they also don't trigger Endrek Sahr, which is my sleeper all star, until after 1 game, then everyone hates him and hates on him =(
Only run him in Oloro because the deck doesn't care about life, runs a really low curve, and is already loaded with tons of draw. It also has some human tricks and is usually called on Cavern of Souls.
I run Agent of the Fates in my decklist, but then again, I also run Slugishness and am considering another enchantment that bounces just to make sure I can hit one. I don't think giving up lands is the way to go when half the list has the potential to recycle itself or sacrifice for a similar effect.
Breathstealer's Crypt: Stops everyone from gaining creatures and as you are running very few, this guy will help.
+1 to Breathstealer's Crypt, most people also avoid taking the creatures because if they can't play them that turn (Tainted Aether, etc.) then they assume they will lose them to a upcoming wheel, even if one is not coming soon.
actually, when i build a deck is to make something. my token deck's point is to make a lot of tokens and use them for value, that's when i have fun. if then i win thanks to my tokens, it's only a bonus
I do the same often. I had a Mimeoplasm deck thats goal was to win with Laboratory guy. I also had a Krenko deck churn out 3400+ Goblins, without a technically infinite combo, Breath of Fury fun. I still lost that game, no haste, but mission accomplished!
Its looping a creature power 2 or less, you could loop anything, it doesn't have to be Acidic Slime. Wood Elves to pull all your forests, Coiling Oracle to put all your lands into play and draw your deck, etc. They are also comes into play triggers so you capitalize off tons of other creatures / enchantments that will see them, they are also dies triggers, for however many you can find in Bant.
Its boring. I have done it, I have built decks based on dropping a turn 2 (insert something that will make people sad). The thing is, its not fun for anyone else at the table and it takes time to realize that. Perhaps its just that I was able to recognize that my playgroup was not having fun, or I realized that I wasn't really having fun when dropping that massive turn 2-3 play resulted in a game ending.
I think it really depends on why you play magic, and if you care to talk to the people you play magic with. I play once a week with largely the same group of 15 people in mixed 4 player FFA games. I like talking and bull****ting with these guys and really couldn't care too much for winning in the end, though sometimes I break out combo Animar if its been too long since a W. The point being at some moment I think you can look at your deck and at the other people at your table and realize ... This deck has done what it was built to do, it works amazing, no one is having any fun playing against it, its time for something else.
I keep my Animar built and ready to go if some new people sit, or someones deck gets "too mean" for a lack of a better term. But I rather sit and have fun and let those people play with those people. Its not really a thing for those people to play against us, its probably not challenging for them, so I don't know why they would even bother. If you think the bad players are getting upset, then maybe you should stop playing with the bad players.
I just want to add, I build very competitive decks, I just don't build decks that make people bored. I had a deck that dropped a Anvil + Chains lock by turn 3-4 and slowly took a win if people didn't quit, but geez that is boring. Magic isn't solitaire, everyone should be enjoying the game. I used to get smacked by a very tuned Angus bird deck with Dovescape lock. We actually had fun playing that, the nuclear bird race for dominance! Make sure you are having fun, make sure everyone is having fun, or go join the pro-tour if you take magic more like a sport where your goal is to annihilate the competition and send them home crying.
Some really cool ideas in this thread. Dream Halls is just busted. Thanks everybody. I run a Jelava version but I'm not trying to kill anyone with Nekusar. I just Wheel a lot with Notion Thief in play and then overrun people with stupid card advantage. I'm usually digging for Kiki-combo. I run all five parts of the combo in my deck to maximize redundancy (Kiki, Twin, Exarch, Pestermite, Zealous conscripts).
Moxnix is totally right: if you can't win after wheeling with Thef out then you are definitely doing something wrong. Don't forget that you don't HAVE to win with Nekusar. You can just play a bunch of dudes and swing. It's not like anyone else has any cards in hand. Don't get bogged down in one dimensional thinking otherwise the game ends with Nekusar gets tucked.
This doesn't really work for my deck because there are pretty much no dudes. I tried Notion Thief a couple of games, but it completely shuts down the easy win in hopes for beats with a snapcaster? Also Notion Thief still gives them a draw each turn, its not that you are depriving them of cards, after 1 wheel, you are just drawing more, but not actually stopping their normal turn progression.
I might give it a try, rather talk from experience then theory, but it seems 100% counter to the idea, and if you are running dudes, they get shut off by your toys that shut off your opponents, Tainted Aether, etc.
I run an Oloro deck with a bunch of life gain / life loss effects:
Necropotence
Children of Korlis
Deathgreeter
Soul Warden
soul's Attendant
Thrull Parasite
Auriok Champion
Basilica Screecher
Blood Artist
Dark Confidant
Suture Priest
I have maybe 4 extorts. The real goal is to just move out of damage range, usually people don't bother swinging at you because your just so far out of reach. Also a couple of infinite comb's couldn't hurt. Sanguine Bond + Exquisite Blood, Teysa + Darkest Hour, Requiem Angel / Xathrid Necromancer + Conspiracy , etc.
She is one of the very few creatures that I run in my build. Why not double up on the enjoyment. She can also help in case I need to copy something else, but that has yet to come up yet.
I was on the fence about the cage because I run Past in Flames and Yawgmoth's Will, but the benefit is that I don't have to worry about feeding any reanimate strategies at the same time.
I won a game the other day off of a Chains of Mephistopheles / Teferi's Puzzlebox lock. I was debating taking them out, but I would have been dead in the water if it wasn't for the combo, so its staying for now. Having a bunch of fun with the deck and picked up a Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond for a little faster mana. Tainted Aether came through that game as an all star as well until Cyclonic Rift saved me from a general kill and sealed the game.
Also picked up a Gemstone Caverns, but have not had it in the opening hand yet =(
The good thing about Agent is that you can put Rancor on him, forcing a sac from everyone, then sac the enchantment with Shattergang for another enchantment sac. He works as his own Gravepact+ for just 5 mana, cost of enchantment + cost to sac enchantment. I run Liquidmetal Coating, and while it hasn't come up, I can't wait until I can turn Slugishness into an artifact after enchanting Agent of Fates, and force an artifact sac + creature sac instead. Not as many enchantments typically in my meta.
I don't run Slugishness as a good card, just as more chance to get an reoccurring enchantment. Roaches just requires 6 mana to sac every turn, and they come back without the life penalty of the 2 mana roaches. Skeletons are great because they come back into play, but they also don't trigger Endrek Sahr, which is my sleeper all star, until after 1 game, then everyone hates him and hates on him =(
Then again I also have a lot more recursion in mine like Endless Cockroaches, etc. to go with more token triggers like Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder and Ogre Slumlord.
+1 to Breathstealer's Crypt, most people also avoid taking the creatures because if they can't play them that turn (Tainted Aether, etc.) then they assume they will lose them to a upcoming wheel, even if one is not coming soon.
I do the same often. I had a Mimeoplasm deck thats goal was to win with Laboratory guy. I also had a Krenko deck churn out 3400+ Goblins, without a technically infinite combo, Breath of Fury fun. I still lost that game, no haste, but mission accomplished!
Its looping a creature power 2 or less, you could loop anything, it doesn't have to be Acidic Slime. Wood Elves to pull all your forests, Coiling Oracle to put all your lands into play and draw your deck, etc. They are also comes into play triggers so you capitalize off tons of other creatures / enchantments that will see them, they are also dies triggers, for however many you can find in Bant.
Not actually casting either of those.
I think it really depends on why you play magic, and if you care to talk to the people you play magic with. I play once a week with largely the same group of 15 people in mixed 4 player FFA games. I like talking and bull****ting with these guys and really couldn't care too much for winning in the end, though sometimes I break out combo Animar if its been too long since a W. The point being at some moment I think you can look at your deck and at the other people at your table and realize ... This deck has done what it was built to do, it works amazing, no one is having any fun playing against it, its time for something else.
I keep my Animar built and ready to go if some new people sit, or someones deck gets "too mean" for a lack of a better term. But I rather sit and have fun and let those people play with those people. Its not really a thing for those people to play against us, its probably not challenging for them, so I don't know why they would even bother. If you think the bad players are getting upset, then maybe you should stop playing with the bad players.
I just want to add, I build very competitive decks, I just don't build decks that make people bored. I had a deck that dropped a Anvil + Chains lock by turn 3-4 and slowly took a win if people didn't quit, but geez that is boring. Magic isn't solitaire, everyone should be enjoying the game. I used to get smacked by a very tuned Angus bird deck with Dovescape lock. We actually had fun playing that, the nuclear bird race for dominance! Make sure you are having fun, make sure everyone is having fun, or go join the pro-tour if you take magic more like a sport where your goal is to annihilate the competition and send them home crying.
This doesn't really work for my deck because there are pretty much no dudes. I tried Notion Thief a couple of games, but it completely shuts down the easy win in hopes for beats with a snapcaster? Also Notion Thief still gives them a draw each turn, its not that you are depriving them of cards, after 1 wheel, you are just drawing more, but not actually stopping their normal turn progression.
I might give it a try, rather talk from experience then theory, but it seems 100% counter to the idea, and if you are running dudes, they get shut off by your toys that shut off your opponents, Tainted Aether, etc.
Necropotence
Children of Korlis
Deathgreeter
Soul Warden
soul's Attendant
Thrull Parasite
Auriok Champion
Basilica Screecher
Blood Artist
Dark Confidant
Suture Priest
I have maybe 4 extorts. The real goal is to just move out of damage range, usually people don't bother swinging at you because your just so far out of reach. Also a couple of infinite comb's couldn't hurt. Sanguine Bond + Exquisite Blood, Teysa + Darkest Hour, Requiem Angel / Xathrid Necromancer + Conspiracy , etc.