I wish they had made a new walker in green instead of red. No one gives a 2 damns about frey while a ton of people want either Jaya or Slobad. He doesn't seem bad though I really despise discard first looting.
I'd like to disprove your theory. I give multiple damns about Freyalise and have loved her as a character since playing Ice Age.
Well you're in a clear minority there bud. If someone other than frey had been printed there would have been almost no one complaining. It's pretty easy to tell that since very few people were talking about frey before before she got revealed.
I wish they had made a new walker in green instead of red. No one gives a 2 damns about frey while a ton of people want either Jaya or Slobad. He doesn't seem bad though I really despise discard first looting.
Ive been playing Top Control for months now and the Cage is not as good as you mention it. Cage still doesnt deal with Emrakul, Crime or E. Witness and it doesnt help the top disruption plan, which is the main goal of the deck. It may take 2 spots on the list even making the trimming tools up to 10 (if we feel greedy and want to play 4 bells and 4 codecs) but I dont think its a straight 4-of
I too have been playing a ton of top control over the last couple months. I agree cage isn't the best thing ever and it certainly isn't part of the top control package but that package with 8 mill cards isn't really in need there. Other graveyard hate just seems to be more versatile and less time dependant. Relic deals with witness, Emrakul, and crime while replacing itself and grafdiggers deals with almost any other problem. And the big thing is even if they come down after the stuff is in the yard they still deal with it. Pyxis does nothing to crime in opening hand and can't stop witness from recurring something already in the yard.
I disagree, this should fit very well as a 2-of in top control. It solves the problem of milling ancient grudge, bump in the night, mystical teachings, etc... It exiles loam, raven's crime, etc...
Theres a lot it can do in top control other than just get rid of emrakul. We just have to find the right number to fit it in because yes, we thrive on academy ruins.
What solves most of those problems better is a grafdigger's cage in my opinion. This only stops raven's and bump when they are on top, if they've already been cast it does nothing while graf still turns them off. Graf can also shut down more than one a turn if you happen to mill more than one. I can see it as a one or 2 of but it seems outclassed by the gy hate we already play.
So yea, I don't think the downsides of this (more slots taken up by combo) out weighs the upside (Situational gy hate).
Honestly it probably won't see much play in modern top control as the deck plays academy ruins for synergy with it's mill cards. The deck can easily get one of it's 8 mill cards it can have a problem getting lantern though, and this is not lanterns 4-8. I could see adding this as mill card 9-10 but I think having 8 is consistent enough really.
Though it does stop eldrazi which is nice but against decks with those you could almost always just kill with tezz if you got the lock down.
No it's more like a cheaper Journey that will be more resilient to removal since land destruction is much harder to come by than enchantment removal. I agree, it's no path, but path was busted. (Which is fine by me!)
It can be removed with enchantment OR land destruction. explain again how it's 'more resilient to removal'
@zerodown: I completely forgot about the leylines. Unfortunately, I don't have any, but I'll see if I can pick some up soon.
I much prefer surgical extraction to beast within. Every game I've had a beast within I've wished it was either a pithing needle, dispatch, or surgical. Surgicals allow me to neuter a deck without a lantern in play. I've found it to be one of the most useful cards mainboard, while beast within has been the least useful. I'll keep them sideboard just in case, though. There are absolutely no leylines of sanctity in my metagame, which is the only reason I can think of for beast within.
It works as extra removal for anything that bothers us (Extra assuming you play Wear 'n Tear) It gets rid of pithing needle, stony silence, leyline, inkmoth nexus, etc. Also has the nice ability to mana screw someone who kept a one lander until we set up, though that's just a side benefit.
It might be better, but Blood Pet is not modern legal.
With Heartless Summoning you could also use Myr Moonvessel to generate unlimited colorless mana, or Priest of Urabrask to generate unlimited red mana.
Heh, didn't even notice that, still then the combo in the OP with wild cantor has the same point of being only a 3 card over a 4 card over both of those combos.
You could do the same thing with Basal Sliver with Heartless Summoning to generate B with every cast, or have Basal Silver combo with Mindlash Sliver to do the same thing as well as discard all your opponents cards.
That's a 4 card combo though, if you really wanted to go with black Blood Pet/Blood Artist is almost assuredly better. 3 card combo that wins the game > 4 card combo that doesn't
Sideboard is probably crap. You need some way to stall for mana or the card itself if warrens is your alt win, as you can't just use muddle to tutor it, and gaining inf life is a pretty good way to do so. Pyroclasms are just there cause I wasn't sure what to put in, the deck probably needs some aggro hate in the sideboard.
The other option I was considering was cutting red, Wild cantor provides the only red you need for grapeshot/warrens and that would let you run green more easily for some ramp like Noble Hierarch or even some fog stall. Or even running beck // call to draw your whole deck with cantor and winning.
Anyway, not sure how viable this deck is as I'm not that great of a modern player but it does seem to work at the very least.
Oh, another option could be going WB and running Blood Pet and Blood Artist though that is probably worse as there is no easy alt wincon in WB but you could just run Ray of Revelation and/or other enchant hate.
Also, who's running Leyline of Sanctity ? I used to run it on Cockatrice but as I am now building it on paper I dont know if I want to spend +$40 on just sb cards... It worked well against Combo and RDW but I dont know if its THAT necessary
Leyline is a sideboard card in quite a few decks so it's not that bad to buy, there is a decent chance whatever deck you build next will run leylines in the SB too.
Well you're in a clear minority there bud. If someone other than frey had been printed there would have been almost no one complaining. It's pretty easy to tell that since very few people were talking about frey before before she got revealed.
I too have been playing a ton of top control over the last couple months. I agree cage isn't the best thing ever and it certainly isn't part of the top control package but that package with 8 mill cards isn't really in need there. Other graveyard hate just seems to be more versatile and less time dependant. Relic deals with witness, Emrakul, and crime while replacing itself and grafdiggers deals with almost any other problem. And the big thing is even if they come down after the stuff is in the yard they still deal with it. Pyxis does nothing to crime in opening hand and can't stop witness from recurring something already in the yard.
What solves most of those problems better is a grafdigger's cage in my opinion. This only stops raven's and bump when they are on top, if they've already been cast it does nothing while graf still turns them off. Graf can also shut down more than one a turn if you happen to mill more than one. I can see it as a one or 2 of but it seems outclassed by the gy hate we already play.
So yea, I don't think the downsides of this (more slots taken up by combo) out weighs the upside (Situational gy hate).
Though it does stop eldrazi which is nice but against decks with those you could almost always just kill with tezz if you got the lock down.
It can be removed with enchantment OR land destruction. explain again how it's 'more resilient to removal'
1 Air Servant
1 Celestial Flare
1 Wall of frost
1 Disperse
2 Essence scatter
2 Messenger Drake
1 Banisher Priest
1 Master of Diversion
1 Seacoast Drake
1 Trained Condor
1 Time Ebb
1 Divination
1 Divine Favor
1 Accorder's shield
1 Cancel
1 Serra Angel
1 Ring of Three Wishes
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Fiend Slayer Paladin
1 Elixir of Immortality
Was the full list. People just got stalled then I killed them with flyers or dropped jace and 0'd them to death.
It works as extra removal for anything that bothers us (Extra assuming you play Wear 'n Tear) It gets rid of pithing needle, stony silence, leyline, inkmoth nexus, etc. Also has the nice ability to mana screw someone who kept a one lander until we set up, though that's just a side benefit.
Heh, didn't even notice that, still then the combo in the OP with wild cantor has the same point of being only a 3 card over a 4 card over both of those combos.
That's a 4 card combo though,
if you really wanted to go with black Blood Pet/Blood Artist is almost assuredly better.3 card combo that wins the game > 4 card combo that doesn't4 Enduring Renewal
4 Grapeshot
4 Wild Cantor
Counterspells:
4 Remand
4 Mana Leak
4 Rune Snag
Digging/utility:
4 Telling Time
4 Muddle the Mixture
4 Izzet Charm
4 Steam Vents
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Arid Mesa
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
2 Plains
4 Empty the Warrens
4 Soul Warden
4 Soul's Attendant
3 Pyroclasm
Is what I just threw together
Sideboard is probably crap. You need some way to stall for mana or the card itself if warrens is your alt win, as you can't just use muddle to tutor it, and gaining inf life is a pretty good way to do so.
Pyroclasms are just there cause I wasn't sure what to put in, the deck probably needs some aggro hate in the sideboard.
The other option I was considering was cutting red, Wild cantor provides the only red you need for grapeshot/warrens and that would let you run green more easily for some ramp like Noble Hierarch or even some fog stall. Or even running beck // call to draw your whole deck with cantor and winning.
Anyway, not sure how viable this deck is as I'm not that great of a modern player but it does seem to work at the very least.
Oh, another option could be going WB and running Blood Pet and Blood Artist though that is probably worse as there is no easy alt wincon in WB but you could just run Ray of Revelation and/or other enchant hate.Leyline is a sideboard card in quite a few decks so it's not that bad to buy, there is a decent chance whatever deck you build next will run leylines in the SB too.