Oh, how I have returned. Our worst match ups are Control and Combo.
Control is bad because they put our creatures in a bind with kill spells (bolts, paths, electrolyze etc). They also play the tempo game which is hard for us to get around because we can't build a solid board state. According to MTGTop8; UWx Midrange, UW Control, and Mardu Midrange are very painful decks to fight.
Combo is bad because if we can't kill the opponent by turn 3-4, they have a higher chance of going off with whatever combo is around. According to MTGTop8; Dredge, Scapeshift, Creatures toolbox and UW storm have the potential to just go off at usually by that point, preventing us from winning.
Boarding is pretty redudant when it comes to a deck like goblins considering we don't have any draw. Having 2s and 1s of doesn't really make a whole lot of sense because we want to see the cards in hand more often in order to help us win. 3-4s make a lot more sense because as I stated, seeing the card in your opening hand is a key to winning. That being said, I do not think that Kari Zev's Expertise should only be a 2-3, because it costs a lot of mana, where if we are casting a 3CMC spell it better win us the game or pretty close to it (we really just curve out at 3CMC for our deck).
I have yet to suit up my old 8whack list so unfortunately I can't give you the latest SB options. The sideboard is always based around your current meta.
Combo
Dredge is always countered by grave hate, anything along the lines of Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus works for the most part. Make sure you get them opening hand.
Scapeshift is tough, its sometimes an auto loss depending on the deck. My only reccomendation is rushing them quickly game 1, and be more conservative games 2-3 because of the creature removal being boarded in. I suppose Kari Zev's Expertise could be useful to take Primeval Titan but really theres not a lot you can do sideboard wise for this matchup.
UW Storm has become so strong since Baral, Chief of Compliance. Graveyard hate is key against this deck. A Crypt or Relic at the right time could be deveasting at times. But them going off on turn 3 is also a paddling.
Creatures Toolbox is easy game 1 because they don't have the tools(Didn't even mean for that to happen:)) to stop us. Games 2 and 3 are much different. Burrenton Forge-Tender and Kitchen Finks combos are not fun to deal with. Gravehate and Anti life gain options are great against the deck but its still not easy. Unless they stall out for some reason, they can control your board and gain constant life.
Control
UW Control, UWx Midrange, Mardu Midrange are pretty much the same much up, kill your creatures, stall out the game, and watch yourself die slowly. Blood Moon and Anti life gain is my recommendation, but its tough no matter what the match is.
That's all I really have, I apologize for being a bit vague at times, I'm not 100% up to speed on the current meta, but I hope this helped you out a bit
Hey guys, primers updated, I will be doing some updates all day as well as adding matchups and videos towards the end of the night.
Updates (03/16/16):
*The shell has been redone, adding goblin piledriver and removing chieftain.
*Added color splashing mana bases
*Added more sideboard/mainboard options
*Removed Red color effects
*Added types of goblin decks (No-Lord's, 8whack, and Gobots)
*Added additional Synergy information
*Added better updated sample lists
*Added/Removed more goblins
We could start running Painter's Servant in the sideboard. This card is a house against Eldrazi considering they don't run mb creature kill...most of the time. I have seen a few boards running Dismember but that's about it.
It's a 2 drop, it shuts off the search Ancient Stirrings, shuts off Eldrazi Temple and Eye of Ugin. On the bright side it slows us down turn 2, but keeps us ready for turn 3 and 4 considering they can't play anything else after that.
If we are still running Gruul/Naya/Jund lists, Destructive Revelry is still our best bet for Chalice, considering it's a two drop does extra damage.
I have two videos that do an introduction on how to play the new No-Lords Gobos, as well as some just basic reports. Unfortunately with my current schedule, I do not have the time to do any hardcore recordings, also my current living state sucks for recording. (My pc is in my basement in the furnace room, and it's loud so the feedback of the microphone sounds awful). I am moving out in the next month of two, and I promise everyone I will turn around and be more devoted to magic. I am working with hellakevin and Niallplaysmagic to help better the primer, we should be getting a better primer hook up in the next couple of weeks. Until then GL with the GP as well as your recordings. Also to anyone who is recording, please post the video, and if it's good enough I'll put it in the primer.
I like it BadMcFadden good job, I agree with your final conclusion. Even with piledriver the deck may get to tier 2, if we are lucky. But it's still not powerful enough to take on Control and still has trouble with certain styles of twin.
We can wait for the next set or keep practising. I'm sure someone is going to break into a piledriver style deck real soon.
I have been testing with a modified version of TreachTV's as well as FTW1987's CoCo Goblin Puffs. So far the Treach's list has had far more success, but FTW's is just a really fun deck to play. Collected company into two piledrivers with a chieftain and loyalist on the board was my highlight. Either way both are good lists. But, I have still had trouble with them.
I'm going to come up with my own white list and post a sample of it, see where it goes.
I agree with Squirrel's entire comment. Its not that were discrediting you for not taking our advice on gobo nade, were just saying that it is one of the real reasons to run goblins in modern. If Gobo Nade wasn't in the format, goblins wouldn't be either. Now that being said, you have a point, there is no list with tournament results...but then again there is really no high ranking goblin list that has a good result outside of PPTQ's.
I wanna remind you before the release of CoCo, Elves was just a deck with almost 0 play in any big name tournaments. Then that card comes out and all of a sudden elves wins GP Charlotte. Now of course when CoCo was announced everyone knew it was a broken card and certain decks will thrive with it.
My point is don't look down on a card because there is no tournament results. We appreciate every person who tries to better this deck, but when you completely ignore replies to comments and just start posting lists with statements like "Why not just play burn?", you can't expect people to simply not have retorts.
85% of the lists that are posted in this thread I give them a whirl, exactly the way they are, just to see how well they perform. If you tested at least one of the recent lists posted, you would see the power of the Goblin Nade, and the look on your opponent's face when just got dealt 5 damage when they have a superior board state, you would fully understand the need for the card in this deck.
Don't try to make this a burn deck Nevelo, it won't work. This is RDW, it's a different play style, if you a more burn style of goblins, you might as well just play burn, for it is clearly far superior in that aspect.
I don't think dragon claw is as useful against us as it is burn since we swing wide. I agree with the rest of your statements though, thats why i feel RG is better against life gain strategies
Since piledriver is now released for modern on MTGO, i will doing tests with the card with a modified version of treachtvs list. I wanna try out a no-lords goblins list, and an RB more mid-rangy list. I will try to get at least 20 games of each list in today since I got jack to do all day. I will also be editing the primer as well with updated information.
We will see how piledriver performs in both lists, wish me luck.
My MTGO name is Franx, for anyone willing to test out top tier decks against a goblins list just add me and tell your name on the forums.
As I said I will be on majority of today and tonight testing. If you guys have any suggestions or ideas for the primer just post them here and or pm me.
Raking Canopy punishes just about any flier you will come across; Geist Angel, Resto Angel, Pestermite and Faeries, Delver, Tokens, Inkmoths and Colonnade, Vault Skirges etc etc. And can dodge creature hate. And can be played T2 from a dork. But cannot be collected from Lead the Stampede, and certain Swords of XY still cause grief if you can't deal with them. I'm a stout user of Nature's Claim, also allowing you to gain 4 life if things get desperate rofl
right.. racking canopy. forgot about that card. if you can squeeze it in your deck, it seems like a decent option if your facing a lot of flyers. on the flip side, alot of the flying meta is blue isnt it? which scryb ranger can handle no prob.
1
Control is bad because they put our creatures in a bind with kill spells (bolts, paths, electrolyze etc). They also play the tempo game which is hard for us to get around because we can't build a solid board state. According to MTGTop8; UWx Midrange, UW Control, and Mardu Midrange are very painful decks to fight.
Combo is bad because if we can't kill the opponent by turn 3-4, they have a higher chance of going off with whatever combo is around. According to MTGTop8; Dredge, Scapeshift, Creatures toolbox and UW storm have the potential to just go off at usually by that point, preventing us from winning.
Boarding is pretty redudant when it comes to a deck like goblins considering we don't have any draw. Having 2s and 1s of doesn't really make a whole lot of sense because we want to see the cards in hand more often in order to help us win. 3-4s make a lot more sense because as I stated, seeing the card in your opening hand is a key to winning. That being said, I do not think that Kari Zev's Expertise should only be a 2-3, because it costs a lot of mana, where if we are casting a 3CMC spell it better win us the game or pretty close to it (we really just curve out at 3CMC for our deck).
I have yet to suit up my old 8whack list so unfortunately I can't give you the latest SB options. The sideboard is always based around your current meta.
Combo
Dredge is always countered by grave hate, anything along the lines of Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus works for the most part. Make sure you get them opening hand.
Scapeshift is tough, its sometimes an auto loss depending on the deck. My only reccomendation is rushing them quickly game 1, and be more conservative games 2-3 because of the creature removal being boarded in. I suppose Kari Zev's Expertise could be useful to take Primeval Titan but really theres not a lot you can do sideboard wise for this matchup.
UW Storm has become so strong since Baral, Chief of Compliance. Graveyard hate is key against this deck. A Crypt or Relic at the right time could be deveasting at times. But them going off on turn 3 is also a paddling.
Creatures Toolbox is easy game 1 because they don't have the tools(Didn't even mean for that to happen:)) to stop us. Games 2 and 3 are much different. Burrenton Forge-Tender and Kitchen Finks combos are not fun to deal with. Gravehate and Anti life gain options are great against the deck but its still not easy. Unless they stall out for some reason, they can control your board and gain constant life.
Control
UW Control, UWx Midrange, Mardu Midrange are pretty much the same much up, kill your creatures, stall out the game, and watch yourself die slowly. Blood Moon and Anti life gain is my recommendation, but its tough no matter what the match is.
That's all I really have, I apologize for being a bit vague at times, I'm not 100% up to speed on the current meta, but I hope this helped you out a bit
1
Updates (03/16/16):
*The shell has been redone, adding goblin piledriver and removing chieftain.
*Added color splashing mana bases
*Added more sideboard/mainboard options
*Removed Red color effects
*Added types of goblin decks (No-Lord's, 8whack, and Gobots)
*Added additional Synergy information
*Added better updated sample lists
*Added/Removed more goblins
This is just for now, more to come today
1
Just looking up greens hate towards blue and I found a few creatures that could be useful for stompy:
Mistcutter Hydra
Thrun, the Last Troll
Great Sable Stag
1
It's a 2 drop, it shuts off the search Ancient Stirrings, shuts off Eldrazi Temple and Eye of Ugin. On the bright side it slows us down turn 2, but keeps us ready for turn 3 and 4 considering they can't play anything else after that.
If we are still running Gruul/Naya/Jund lists, Destructive Revelry is still our best bet for Chalice, considering it's a two drop does extra damage.
1
2
1
We can wait for the next set or keep practising. I'm sure someone is going to break into a piledriver style deck real soon.
I have been testing with a modified version of TreachTV's as well as FTW1987's CoCo Goblin Puffs. So far the Treach's list has had far more success, but FTW's is just a really fun deck to play. Collected company into two piledrivers with a chieftain and loyalist on the board was my highlight. Either way both are good lists. But, I have still had trouble with them.
I'm going to come up with my own white list and post a sample of it, see where it goes.
1
I wanna remind you before the release of CoCo, Elves was just a deck with almost 0 play in any big name tournaments. Then that card comes out and all of a sudden elves wins GP Charlotte. Now of course when CoCo was announced everyone knew it was a broken card and certain decks will thrive with it.
My point is don't look down on a card because there is no tournament results. We appreciate every person who tries to better this deck, but when you completely ignore replies to comments and just start posting lists with statements like "Why not just play burn?", you can't expect people to simply not have retorts.
85% of the lists that are posted in this thread I give them a whirl, exactly the way they are, just to see how well they perform. If you tested at least one of the recent lists posted, you would see the power of the Goblin Nade, and the look on your opponent's face when just got dealt 5 damage when they have a superior board state, you would fully understand the need for the card in this deck.
Don't try to make this a burn deck Nevelo, it won't work. This is RDW, it's a different play style, if you a more burn style of goblins, you might as well just play burn, for it is clearly far superior in that aspect.
1
1
We will see how piledriver performs in both lists, wish me luck.
My MTGO name is Franx, for anyone willing to test out top tier decks against a goblins list just add me and tell your name on the forums.
As I said I will be on majority of today and tonight testing. If you guys have any suggestions or ideas for the primer just post them here and or pm me.