I understand this person might be talking out their butts... but it wouldn't surprise me.
Well, now that eternal masters has actually been spoiled, this leads more credence to the reddit poster that stated he had heard a vendor talking about both splinter twin and bloom bans, along with eternal masters set. This now leads in to a very ugly area. This could have been someone who had just got lucky, or it could be he actually overheard them say this stuff. At that point, where did the vendor get that info from, and from which vendor did he overhear talk about it?
Not only that, but we had someone on here already state it was coming as well, which would point at a leak as well.
I would like to point out how the guy is spot on about vendors trying to give you less money then they say, I would highly recommend counting it out yourself. Hotsauce games did it to me at SCG Columbus just a few weeks ago, the calculator said one thing, and the guy was saying something else... then he realized he had messed up and I saw it and he tried to hide it. With how fast these vendors add up numbers, I can almost guarentee they're smudging numbers even if they say 15....15.....45....13.....9 in then end they'll give you a fake total of say, $80 (obviously with not that few of cards, but in bulk it's too easy for them).
I thought they were talking crap until someone verified the claim about MTGPrice being almost broke, which AFAICT was new information.
But having the option to two-for-oneing something without using mana is what makes FOW such an incredibly powerful card.
And Wasteland (And Strip Mine for that matter) is so useful precisely because it deals with other utility lands at instant speed at low cost to yourself. Heck, around Tempest/Urza's Saga I used to run a Green/Red LD deck that could shut down most decks in less than three turns thanks to Wasteland (and several overpowered LD spells, the weakest of which was Argothian Wurm (which was used as a finisher, not many people are willing to sacrifice their last land to delay it by a turn).
We're talking about a limited environment. Most limited decks are filled with basic lands, so Wasteland in limited is usually just a fancy Wastes. Strip Mine would be completely different; I would be much more in favor of putting that card at mythic.
Similarly, counterspells are far worse in limited than in constructed. Games revolve around board state and players will more often be in top deck mode. There is no reason why a 5 mana Cancel that has an alternate casting cost that requires you to two-for-one yourself by pitching another blue spell can't be a rare. I'll point to Vintage Masters where Force of Will was in fact a regular rare.
For what it is worth, Vintage Masters had a set size that was very nonstandard. VMA Force of Will was actually the same rarity as MM2 Tarmogoyf (to within a percent).
I agree that Force of Will is not a particularly powerful Limited card - it's certainly not JtMS, Skullclamp, Pack Rat, Umezawa's Jitte or Citadel Siege. It's not even at the level of Oblivion Strike or Eldrazi Skyspawner - it's just a solid playable that always makes the cut. It would be balanced in Limited at any rarity.
Mana Drain OTOH - that card *must* be mythic. I've had it in VMA Limited, it is an absurd bomb. Leave up UU on your opponent's third turn, counter their 3 drop even if it is just a Death's-Head Buzzard, then ramp out something massive.
Wasteland is nastier in Limited than it looks, as most sets do have plentiful fixer lands.
Everybody is talking about shifting things to rare and mythic. At this rate, if Wizards did that, what is going to be common and uncommon? A few cards shifting is fine, but sheesh. If we only get 15 mythic slots, would you really think wasteland should be mythic in a set that wont have ABUR dual lands and cards like Gara's cradle? Unless the lands in the set are really good, it would be a terrible choice for mythic. In vintage masters they wamt it mythic because of the bad feels of likely seeing your tabernacle blown up often.
Would they really sell more packs if FOW were mythic? With all the great cards people are expecting, I dont think it matters what rarity it would be. They will have 0 problem moving boxes.
Wasteland and/or FoW at mythic would be nothing other than letting the price tag of a card dictate its rarity. There really isn't any gameplay justification for either to be at that rarity.
Tarmogoyf would like to have a word with you. It was printed in a set (MM2) at mythic where Scion of the Wild, a card of similar mechanics and complexity, was a common.
It was also printed in a set (MM1) at mythic where it would have played an interesting role in Limited at uncommon or common due to its potential to do serious work in the Dredge archetype.
The Modern Masters sets even had an explicit cycle at mythic of 'most expensive card, on the secondary market, in each colour, at the time of set selection'.
Sunscour is the one Wrath effect that's fast enough to matter against the various Eldrazi decks (and is far from blank against the rest of the field). Squadron Hawk helps cast it. Not sure what the exact shell should be.
This idea seems insane to me. 0 mana wraths are good, even if it costs you 3 cards, those are a card type where you can still break even.
Even if you trade 3 cards and 0 mana for 2 cards and 5 mana (a T1 Mimic and a T2 3/3 Endless One against an opponent's Temple draw) you are pretty happy with that deal. That's as much of a tempo blowout as (in Legacy) using Force of Will on a Through the Breach.
4 Cards and 2 mana, unless you don't want to tutor up cards with Squadron Hawk
No, Sunscour costs 3 cards and 0 mana, or (if you have exactly one Squadron Hawk in hand) it costs 2 cards and 2 mana and leaves you with a 'free' bad card in hand.
So this set makes a lot of sense from a financial perspective.
Jace (Mind Sculptor) will sell boosters. Lots of them.
So too would Mana Drain, Force of Will and Wasteland.
On MTGO, Rishadan Port and Misdirection will sell enormous numbers of packs (while the former will sell them in paper too).
There's also a lot of uncommons and commons that could be printed to sell packs. Sensei's Stalling Top (possibly promoted to rare), Serum Visions, IoK, and some quite old cards like Chain Lightning and Pyroblast.
Finally there's some really nasty stuff that could be rarity shifted in a big way. Sinkhole comes to mind immediately.
Sunscour is the one Wrath effect that's fast enough to matter against the various Eldrazi decks (and is far from blank against the rest of the field). Squadron Hawk helps cast it. Not sure what the exact shell should be.
This idea seems insane to me. 0 mana wraths are good, even if it costs you 3 cards, those are a card type where you can still break even.
Even if you trade 3 cards and 0 mana for 2 cards and 5 mana (a T1 Mimic and a T2 3/3 Endless One against an opponent's Temple draw) you are pretty happy with that deal. That's as much of a tempo blowout as (in Legacy) using Force of Will on a Through the Breach.
Sunscour is the one Wrath effect that's fast enough to matter against the various Eldrazi decks (and is far from blank against the rest of the field). Squadron Hawk helps cast it. Not sure what the exact shell should be.
As weird as it may seem, the various 1 mana deathtouch creatures work well against them too, but are almost blank against Affinity.
You will draw to 7 from the first Kozilek ability.
Then, you will have priority and the opportunity to use some of the cards drawn before the second ability resolves, which will refil you to seven.
For instance, if the first Kozilek ability draws you Lightning Bolt and you cast it, you will be at 6 cards when the second ability starts to resolve and so you'll draw back to 7.
Amulet bloom is still only presenting itself as a competitive-but-fringe strategy, and it just seems like people have all collectively just gone along with the idea that it might get hit with a ban, when really there isn't any particularly compelling reason for it. plenty of salt, buckets of salt, but nothing concrete.
Exactly this.
Magic players are generally terrible with variance and don't cope well against decks that have unbeatable hands in 2-5% of games.
BGx disruptive attrition isn't in a bad spot at the moment, it's just that people are shifting from the Jund version of the deck to the Abzan version. That happens with other decks too - colours get added or removed, but the deck's fundamental design stays the same.
I think Stoneforge Mystic should be unbanned. I don't see it being that dominant in current Modern. So many removal spells, so many good ways to deal with Batterskull. Jitte is banned. I don't see any of the current tier 1 deck using Mystic.
I see some decks that aren't currently Tier 1 using SFM and becoming Tier 1.
I don't see them going beyond that to problem levels.
Twin (and/or Exarch) is definitely on thin ice. I said that about Pod for a year before it get taken out back and shot (although I expected Pod to last longer than it did). Again I expect Twin and Exarch to both survive, but a banning would not shock me.
There's no way Twin is on thin ice. The deck goes right up to that turn 4 limit, but it never breaks it. It never virtually wins before 4 and it never actually wins before 4. It's also a diverse deck with many builds. It has a bit of consistency on it's side but it doesn't have the speed. And it doesn't limit future design space.
Pod never won pre-T4, was diverse with many builds, and both have similar impacts on future design space.
People swore black and blue the card would never be banned. I always considered it a possibility, although I expected it to happen later than it did.
Does anyone remember the exact reasoning behind the Cloudpost ban forever ago? IIRC it was banned because it was too good against fair decks and therefore reduced deck diversity. One has to wonder if maybe a few months down the road, the combination of these new Eldrazi decks and the ever-improving Tron will create a similar situation. If these decks rise to a higher metagame %, which is certainly possible given the tools they are getting in OGW, fair midrange and control decks could get weakened even more and maybe pushed out of the format entirely. If that were to happen, I wouldn't be surprised at an Eye of Ugin ban. Again, this is all speculation of course, because we don't know how exactly everything is going to play out. But, Tron did have a 10.1% major event day 2 share in December (higher than every other deck except Affinity), and that's scary. If Bx Eldrazi rises to a similar share, it could be the nail in the coffin for fair midrange/control in Modern, which would hopefully force some kind of action from Wizards.
Cloudpost was ABSURD. Caleb from ChannelFireball tested Modern with it unbanned and was reliably hardcasting Emrakul on turn 4 while still having relevant plays before it.
My expectation is no bannings and maybe some unbannings of the less dangerous cards on the list, with the artifact lands the safest candidates. Caleb from ChannelFireball streamed games where he was playing a hypothetical Modern with artifact lands unbanned, and he was not able to break them.
Cards that go straight into one of the best decks are the "safest"? Come on.
Watch the video.
The deck was worse with them in it than it was in its present form. More inconsistent mana draws.
I believed the same thing you did until I saw evidence that proved me wrong.
Caleb may be wrong and there may be a different build he didn't try that actually is broken, but it won't be today's WUx metalcraft aggro. (He tried WRu with Galvanic Blast and Shrapnel Blast, IIRC)
Amulet Bloom has proven itself to be dangerous but inconsistent. Its good draws have fundamental turn 3-3.5, which is too fast for the format. However its median draws are fundamental turn 4-4.25, which is fine.
I would vote against bannings but with a very clear statement that they were considered but deemed unnecessary for now, and that the deck is being watched closely.
That said the people that make this call know what hate cards and/or synergies for the deck are coming in Oath and SOI. If Oath included Abolish or something similar, there would be no consideration of a ban. OTOH if SOI is slated to include a new land that would be obnoxious in the deck, then that might make them lean more toward a ban. (And yes, Abolish is better than it looks against ABC).
My expectation is no bannings and maybe some unbannings of the less dangerous cards on the list, with the artifact lands the safest candidates. Caleb from ChannelFireball streamed games where he was playing a hypothetical Modern with artifact lands unbanned, and he was not able to break them.
All that said, I would not be shocked to see a larger banlist, aimed at smashing all the stronger combo and lock decks in the format. I don't think it's likely, but it is possible that we will wake up and see Splinter Twin, Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, Amulet of Vigor and Goryo's Vengeance ALL given the banhammer.
There is precisely a 0.0001% chance of this happening.
DCI: what kind of format u want fam?
Modern players: just **** my ***** up
DCI: I got u. *bans everything*
It's happened before, there have been two banned list announcements that smashed major archetypes.
Pod being banned smashed three archetypes, two of which were Tier 1 (Melira Pod, Kiki Pod and the tier 2 value pod decks).
Cruise and Dig being banned smashed Delver and to a lesser extent burn.
I don't think that sort of anti-combo format realignment will happen and I'm not for it happening, but it's not one in a million. More like one in twenty.
Twin (and/or Exarch) is definitely on thin ice. I said that about Pod for a year before it get taken out back and shot (although I expected Pod to last longer than it did). Again I expect Twin and Exarch to both survive, but a banning would not shock me.
I thought they were talking crap until someone verified the claim about MTGPrice being almost broke, which AFAICT was new information.
Normally wouldn't give this the time of day but this person has posted new information that's been independently verified.
No new cards but a lot of gossip about alleged vendor collusion.
For what it is worth, Vintage Masters had a set size that was very nonstandard. VMA Force of Will was actually the same rarity as MM2 Tarmogoyf (to within a percent).
I agree that Force of Will is not a particularly powerful Limited card - it's certainly not JtMS, Skullclamp, Pack Rat, Umezawa's Jitte or Citadel Siege. It's not even at the level of Oblivion Strike or Eldrazi Skyspawner - it's just a solid playable that always makes the cut. It would be balanced in Limited at any rarity.
Mana Drain OTOH - that card *must* be mythic. I've had it in VMA Limited, it is an absurd bomb. Leave up UU on your opponent's third turn, counter their 3 drop even if it is just a Death's-Head Buzzard, then ramp out something massive.
Wasteland is nastier in Limited than it looks, as most sets do have plentiful fixer lands.
Tarmogoyf would like to have a word with you. It was printed in a set (MM2) at mythic where Scion of the Wild, a card of similar mechanics and complexity, was a common.
It was also printed in a set (MM1) at mythic where it would have played an interesting role in Limited at uncommon or common due to its potential to do serious work in the Dredge archetype.
The Modern Masters sets even had an explicit cycle at mythic of 'most expensive card, on the secondary market, in each colour, at the time of set selection'.
No, Sunscour costs 3 cards and 0 mana, or (if you have exactly one Squadron Hawk in hand) it costs 2 cards and 2 mana and leaves you with a 'free' bad card in hand.
Jace (Mind Sculptor) will sell boosters. Lots of them.
So too would Mana Drain, Force of Will and Wasteland.
On MTGO, Rishadan Port and Misdirection will sell enormous numbers of packs (while the former will sell them in paper too).
There's also a lot of uncommons and commons that could be printed to sell packs. Sensei's Stalling Top (possibly promoted to rare), Serum Visions, IoK, and some quite old cards like Chain Lightning and Pyroblast.
Finally there's some really nasty stuff that could be rarity shifted in a big way. Sinkhole comes to mind immediately.
Even if you trade 3 cards and 0 mana for 2 cards and 5 mana (a T1 Mimic and a T2 3/3 Endless One against an opponent's Temple draw) you are pretty happy with that deal. That's as much of a tempo blowout as (in Legacy) using Force of Will on a Through the Breach.
As weird as it may seem, the various 1 mana deathtouch creatures work well against them too, but are almost blank against Affinity.
Then, you will have priority and the opportunity to use some of the cards drawn before the second ability resolves, which will refil you to seven.
For instance, if the first Kozilek ability draws you Lightning Bolt and you cast it, you will be at 6 cards when the second ability starts to resolve and so you'll draw back to 7.
Exactly this.
Magic players are generally terrible with variance and don't cope well against decks that have unbeatable hands in 2-5% of games.
BGx disruptive attrition isn't in a bad spot at the moment, it's just that people are shifting from the Jund version of the deck to the Abzan version. That happens with other decks too - colours get added or removed, but the deck's fundamental design stays the same.
I see some decks that aren't currently Tier 1 using SFM and becoming Tier 1.
I don't see them going beyond that to problem levels.
Pod never won pre-T4, was diverse with many builds, and both have similar impacts on future design space.
People swore black and blue the card would never be banned. I always considered it a possibility, although I expected it to happen later than it did.
Cloudpost was ABSURD. Caleb from ChannelFireball tested Modern with it unbanned and was reliably hardcasting Emrakul on turn 4 while still having relevant plays before it.
Watch the video.
The deck was worse with them in it than it was in its present form. More inconsistent mana draws.
I believed the same thing you did until I saw evidence that proved me wrong.
Caleb may be wrong and there may be a different build he didn't try that actually is broken, but it won't be today's WUx metalcraft aggro. (He tried WRu with Galvanic Blast and Shrapnel Blast, IIRC)
It's happened before, there have been two banned list announcements that smashed major archetypes.
Pod being banned smashed three archetypes, two of which were Tier 1 (Melira Pod, Kiki Pod and the tier 2 value pod decks).
Cruise and Dig being banned smashed Delver and to a lesser extent burn.
I don't think that sort of anti-combo format realignment will happen and I'm not for it happening, but it's not one in a million. More like one in twenty.
Twin (and/or Exarch) is definitely on thin ice. I said that about Pod for a year before it get taken out back and shot (although I expected Pod to last longer than it did). Again I expect Twin and Exarch to both survive, but a banning would not shock me.