@TehWookie, Those decklists are way way way outdated... Stoneforge mystics weren't even printed then, and i believe that card is one of the major reasons why D&T managed to survive postM10... M10 rules change changed everything... that is why stonecloakers were dropped, and so were Isamarus... Don't just get some random decklist from more than a year ago... use lists from the last 3-6 months...
23-24 land D&T is too much... 22 is the right number... Finn put in a lot of testing to get the numbers right in this deck... Also as said by Finn in the OP, some of the creatures may seem underwhelming at times but they are in there for a reason... From Finn's list, i think there are only 5 flex slots, the 3 arbiters and the 2 condemns... other than those cards, the rest have been in the core build for a long time... there may be some variations for some, like 2-3 grunts but the main point is, you don't have much room to wriggle around... the deck is tight as it is...
Suggesting things is easy, the hard part is figuring what to take out... as for 8.5 tails, he is too mana intensive to really be effective... knight of the white orchid, there are better 2 drops - getting another plains, when all you really need is 2 white sources for you to function (which you already have when you cast it)... There are times when you can vial it in, and you get your plains, but then you think about the times you can vial the arbiter in response to a fetch, and that usually means game for some decks...
Regarding your matches: you did pretty good... you lost to a matchup you're supposed to lose, as for zoo it's 50-50 and 3 nacatl draw is hard to beat... but i don't agree that arbiter is completely useless in that matchup seeing as he is a lightning rod against that deck because of the absurd amount of fetches he runs...
@Landtax, nope wispmare doesn't... When an opponent drops humility on you... you go on to the next game... only out is oblivion ring and goodluck resolving that against landstill... wispmare would've been strong during the vengevine meta... but now, the only target I can see it hitting is counterbalance...
I'd go for condemns over path to exiles just because the monoW version is more focused on the mana denial plan, considering you run rishadan ports... as opposed to the GW version which doesn't...
I'm thinking of putting in thorn of amethyst in its place to help with the storm matchup... it's a turn earlier and sometimes 1 turn can mean winning and losing against storm...
Nope I said affinity drops everything by turn 3...okay thanks for the input on aura of silence... I think I'll drop it as I run cataclysms on the SB as well...
Just a question regarding aura of silence: what particular matches, besides enchantress is it put in?
Aura of silence is a house against enchantress but I just can't see siding it in any other matches... I'm just wondering because it doesn't do it against affinity, they usually empty their hand before you can get to 3 mana...
Runed Halo is there as an out to progenitus decks mainly...but it can serve as a pseudo removal for a troublesome creature of your opponent as well...it had more uses during the reign of vengevine decks because you're sure there'll be more than one on the table...but 1 for 1 is nice...also, you can reset it with flickerwisp so that's a plus as well...
Hmm, well I only got this when I was reading from thesource when they were pondering the merits of arbiter prior to the release of scars...haha
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding when cataclysm resolves, stuff goes to the yard, then flagstones triggered ability goes on the stack... don't i get priority here?
Regarding the non-interaction between cataclysm and flagstones and arbiter...you sac the arbiter as well, together with the flagstones...so you are free to search your library...regarding wastelanding your flagstones while arbiter is out...who cares if he wastelands it, 1 less wasteland for karakas and rishadan port is good in my book...considering you're not susceptible to colorscrew anyway...
Regarding arbiter and mystic, there are some games that it does happen when you topdeck a mystic and you have an arbiter out, and it does suck... but you have to think of how many times arbiter will screw your opponent out... the way i see it, the opponent gets more screwed by the arbiter than it could ever to you... I for one think that arbiters is needed MD if you're monowhite... in reality, how many decks out there don't run fetches? and how many do? off the top of my head, I can only think of monoU merfolks (which is actually budgeted because most go splash now), dredge, monoR gobs (it can be argued that splashing black in gobs is also better) that don't really use fetches...
As Finn, stated in the OP, some of the creatures may appear lackluster at times but they are there for a reason... I for 1 run 4 arbiters MD and don't regret it 1 bit... also, you can get away with running 4 because the ability stacks, so if you have 2 out, they have to pay 4, unlike canonists, which has been tried and found to be lackluster as MD hatebear, that has an ability which doesn't stack...
Lewis Laskin in the top4 of SCG Kansas using GW Taxes
Wow what a sick topdeck from horizon canopy...
G2 and dead on the attack, he popped horizon canopy to draw swords, the only card that would let him live!
Edit: He lost...boo...
Merfolk v. Gobs in the Finals
I think it's been discussed a while back that orim's chant is not good too because good storm players duress you before they go off anyway... i use the tutor board and therefore i have canonist, runed halo, and ghostly prison (for empty the warrens shenanigans) but the matchup is still horrible... frankly, for me i think there seems to be no sideboard tech that will make the combo matchup decent...
As for the landstill matchup, cataclysms and pithing needles go a long way but you'll still be climbing uphill... But the matchup is a little bit better than combo... It is definitely winnable as long as they don't drop humility...
The reality is, you really can't have a great matchup against every deck... but aside from those 2 (and decks packing pernicious deed - you fold to this card hard), you pretty much have an even to great matchup against pretty much the rest off the field... plus the rogue factor should help...
The best tech for these decks is:
Pray you don't get paired up with them
*Good luck in your tourney and hoping for an update as to how it goes
I think the argument that it is wrong to replace jotun grunt which has a CMC of 2, with a card that has a CMC of 3, is faulty... because 9 out of 10 times, you won't be able to play grunt turn 2 anyway... except in some cases (like when you're against the dredge), the optimal play is to wait for the graveyard to fill so at least it can live for more than a turn or 2... moreover, you'd almost always want your vial to be at 3 asap for mangara and flickerwisp tricks...
Don't get me wrong, i love jotun grunt, but i can see cutting him down to 2 if the need arises... however, i don't see the cavalier as powerful enough to push the grunt out of the way...the cavalier is often times too mana intensive (colored mana at that) to really be effective... the protection from swords is nice, but goyf laughs at his face...and does black even play with targeted removal anymore?the only one i can think of is ghastly demise...
I too sometimes feel the grunts are underwhelming...but i wouldn't cut them off totally...i could see myself replacing only one of the grunts (i'm running 3, therefore i'm gonna leave 2) for a 3-drop that is really strong (the new crusader comes to mind)... I don't see the stillmoon cavalier cutting it however...
23-24 land D&T is too much... 22 is the right number... Finn put in a lot of testing to get the numbers right in this deck... Also as said by Finn in the OP, some of the creatures may seem underwhelming at times but they are in there for a reason... From Finn's list, i think there are only 5 flex slots, the 3 arbiters and the 2 condemns... other than those cards, the rest have been in the core build for a long time... there may be some variations for some, like 2-3 grunts but the main point is, you don't have much room to wriggle around... the deck is tight as it is...
Suggesting things is easy, the hard part is figuring what to take out... as for 8.5 tails, he is too mana intensive to really be effective... knight of the white orchid, there are better 2 drops - getting another plains, when all you really need is 2 white sources for you to function (which you already have when you cast it)... There are times when you can vial it in, and you get your plains, but then you think about the times you can vial the arbiter in response to a fetch, and that usually means game for some decks...
Regarding your matches: you did pretty good... you lost to a matchup you're supposed to lose, as for zoo it's 50-50 and 3 nacatl draw is hard to beat... but i don't agree that arbiter is completely useless in that matchup seeing as he is a lightning rod against that deck because of the absurd amount of fetches he runs...
Aura of silence is a house against enchantress but I just can't see siding it in any other matches... I'm just wondering because it doesn't do it against affinity, they usually empty their hand before you can get to 3 mana...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding when cataclysm resolves, stuff goes to the yard, then flagstones triggered ability goes on the stack... don't i get priority here?
Regarding arbiter and mystic, there are some games that it does happen when you topdeck a mystic and you have an arbiter out, and it does suck... but you have to think of how many times arbiter will screw your opponent out... the way i see it, the opponent gets more screwed by the arbiter than it could ever to you... I for one think that arbiters is needed MD if you're monowhite... in reality, how many decks out there don't run fetches? and how many do? off the top of my head, I can only think of monoU merfolks (which is actually budgeted because most go splash now), dredge, monoR gobs (it can be argued that splashing black in gobs is also better) that don't really use fetches...
As Finn, stated in the OP, some of the creatures may appear lackluster at times but they are there for a reason... I for 1 run 4 arbiters MD and don't regret it 1 bit... also, you can get away with running 4 because the ability stacks, so if you have 2 out, they have to pay 4, unlike canonists, which has been tried and found to be lackluster as MD hatebear, that has an ability which doesn't stack...
Wow what a sick topdeck from horizon canopy...
G2 and dead on the attack, he popped horizon canopy to draw swords, the only card that would let him live!
Edit: He lost...boo...
Merfolk v. Gobs in the Finals
As for the landstill matchup, cataclysms and pithing needles go a long way but you'll still be climbing uphill... But the matchup is a little bit better than combo... It is definitely winnable as long as they don't drop humility...
The reality is, you really can't have a great matchup against every deck... but aside from those 2 (and decks packing pernicious deed - you fold to this card hard), you pretty much have an even to great matchup against pretty much the rest off the field... plus the rogue factor should help...
The best tech for these decks is:
Pray you don't get paired up with them
*Good luck in your tourney and hoping for an update as to how it goes
Don't get me wrong, i love jotun grunt, but i can see cutting him down to 2 if the need arises... however, i don't see the cavalier as powerful enough to push the grunt out of the way...the cavalier is often times too mana intensive (colored mana at that) to really be effective... the protection from swords is nice, but goyf laughs at his face...and does black even play with targeted removal anymore?the only one i can think of is ghastly demise...