Food Chain, if you want to go for a super dedicated, cEDH style of deck.
Honestly, I kind of feel my shortcomings as a Magic player now. (Not to say my stupidity.) I saw Food Chain mentioned on several Facebook groups as an awesome card to synergize with The First Sliver, and we were discussing this card with my brother -who has much broader experience than I do-, and still I couldn't grasp why it's supposed to work so well. I mean, I can't really see past the resource boon thing. Cascade, more often than not, will mean free permanents in my case, most of which will be critters I can exile for mana with this card, and the Hive is always mana-starved. But for the love of the Queen, I can't factor it into any awesome plays on the same way I do with Mana Echoes or Intruder Alert.
I plan on putting the 7 mana 6/6 Changeling guy in the deck. First Sliver is a given. I also like the new Boros sliver. The other 2 are kind of meh to me.
I was thinking Dregscape Sliver is nothing short of awesome because it can potentially turn your graveyard into an extension of your hand. I wonder what would make you think it's subpar.
Note that these are, according to the source, just some of all the slivers to be released on Modern Horizons. What other surprises are in store, I wonder?
And while we're at it, what awesome synergies do you guys see for The First Sliver?
*The Queen bows her head slowly, impressed* Now here's a dedicated servant of the Hive
The one reason for which I'm going to feature your list on the primer is because it's kitchen table Magic. A deck fit for social gaming. And, my friend, that's great.
You seem to know your deck well enough. I'm kind of afraid to give much advice, because most of the additions I'd suggest could have the unintended effect of boosting the power of your list beyond KTM. I think Vanquisher's Banner and Beast Whisperer are the most worthwile picks out of the list you mentioned last. Synapse Sliver has proved to be a lightning rod, and the fact that its ability procs via combat damage reduces its flexibility somewhat. Toxin Sliver is rather weak in my book for the same reason.
There are some qualities your swarm definitely needs - haste, flying, lifelink and mana. Duplication in those cases won't hurt. First strike and double strike overlap so pick one of each.
Hey there! Glad to know that wall of text with pretensions of coolness actually is good enough to help someone. Most of the merit goes to people like DanzBorin and Gref. I'm just the janitor here.
Speaking of Danz, he's definitely right. It's perfectly fine to play slivers just for fun - hell, back in the day EDH was kitchen table Magic, it all was like that. Then things got serious and everything escalated to the point we have that pesky COMPETITIVENESS thing to worry about in a format that can be broken six ways from Sunday.
My two cents - I believe the hatred slivers get is undeserved and exaggerated. Everyone panics whenever the Overlord is revealed but no one bats an eye at any one of the myriad stax commanders out there. Me, I'd much rather go against an ax crazy commander like, say, Kresh the Bloodbraided or any other deck that tries to bury me under a living tide of elves or goblins or what have you than having to put up with Grand Arbiter Augustin IV. To put it succinctly - when I sit down and pull my deck out, I want to play. I don't sit down to just watch someone not allowing anyone to play.
*The Queen regards the newcomer warmly and chitters with joy*
I'm passionate about slivers to a point not matched by anything else in MtG. Hell, in my pantheon they're next to things like S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Mass Effect, the Tzimisce, and Puella Magi Madoka Magica.
This thread is the result of all your work and contributions. I'm merely the janitor that keeps everything tidy. Usually DanzBorin or Gref have more and better insights than I do, probably owing to their broader experience. I'm rather narrow-minded when it comes to Magic, and that's probably my main flaw here.
Galerider Sliver - Flying for U is nice, but i am considering removing both this guy and Winged Sliver for some higher value cards
I tried doing this, experimented. The result: you gotta have flying. Not for offense, you got other things that will help you punch through. Not having flyers will hurt your defense a lot.
Diffusion Sliver - This guy is also close to being swapped out, but it might simply be that i don't notice spells NOT targeting my Slivers. On the fence Opaline Sliver - Nice value when its ability goes off, it rarely does though. I guess the deterrent factor is usefull? in doubt if this is proactive enough
If people want to kill your slivers, they'll cough up the extra mana or let you have that extra card. I'd swap them out. Long story short: things that proc once in a while are a precious waste of slots.
Victual Sliver - Can turn sweepers into life gain, but seems a little janky? also in danger of being swapped. Not proactive enough.
Darkheart Sliver is much, much better, if only for the simple reason that you don't have to pay mana on top of saccing to activate it. Typical response for a boardwipe - you can't bounce them, then turn them into food.
Muscle Sliver - Close to swapping, but sometimes bodies are just nice to have on the board. On the fence Sinew Sliver - If i cut muscle i will cut this guy too. Thinking of Ward Sliver and the coinflip Sliver to replace them maybe? Predatory Sliver - Same as muscle and sinew Might Sliver - Might swap. Same thoughts as Muscle Sliver and Sinew Sliver
Replace them all. Gonna ship something that beefs up your slivers, might as well go all the way and bring in Megantic Sliver.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - Easily ramped into with Coffers and Itlimoc and whatever else ramp, good way of recurring your graveyard too. I don't see myself not running him.
I'll have to try this one out, too.
EDIT - props to you for the 40k references. I'll have to adapt the main decklist to copy your format. Loved it!
The game plan is to play many cheap slivers as early as possible and to attack aggressively. I don’t know if my opponents will let that happen and in multiplayer games with more mass removal it seems to be more unlikely.
My experience with such strategies has not been a good one. It repeatedly happens to me that whenever I have two or more slivers in play everyone stops and looks carefully at what I'm doing, even if they were durdling around before that. You try and pursue that plan, better be prepared to defend your plays or, worse still, to become de facto Archenemy.
I think, I want to play mana stones, instead of ramp. Also I don’t want to play counters, because I would like to play rather active and cast creatures than reactive and saving up mana.
I've found that mana stones usually are more fragile than lands. My current strategy heavily hinges on having few nonpermanent spells, so my list is brimming with them regardless. Now, about not using countermagic - I can hardly fault your reasoning, though I have my misgivings (see previous comment). Furthermore, stuff like Paradox Engine will more often than not earn a first-class ticket to the graveyard the moment they land, which means you'll profit from such staples only by deploying them simultaneously - and that requires, of course, mana by the truckload, which means they'll be dead weights in your hands up until that point.
My actual decklist contains 104 cards, so i have to cut something. Also, I’m not happy with the amount of pointremoval and not sure about the count of lands and creatures.
Your picks are all good, so it's really hard for me to point out stuff I'd ditch. I will at least say that unless you have ways to protect it, you won't profit much from Rhystic Study. It's an absolute pain in the ass, and it will draw a lot of attention your way.
How do you guys handle it, hive members? You reveal your commander and you get hated out. My list is running around 28 slivers but recent games I spent as the archenemy which makes me feel like I should run interaction, which comes at the expense of creatures. Spiritually, how do you make peace with cutting slivers to run more practical cards and call yourself a sliver deck?
*The Queen shakes her head ruefully* I've had similar stuff told to me in the past. IMHO slivers stand at a disadvantage regarding other tribes. They're too powerful to go casual - even a list where your every nonland card consists of slivers (a clunky and inefficient plan, really) is going to pound the rest of the table into submission. And they're too underpowered to stand toe to toe with other tribes in a competitive environment: the best goblin decks will absolutely steamroll us, not to mention allies or elves.
Oftentimes I like to joke about just how much the slivers resemble the Tyranids from 40k. The alien intelligence in command of that swarm always adapts to overcome threats, and so should we. Just in the same way the 'nids would deploy xenomorph-like assassins to take out key enemy figureheads or straight-out subvert them by mind-controlling them, we will resort to non-sliver critters to do the jobs they can't - the none too kindly called thralls.
I only run 22 Slivers in mine. I run ramp, destruction, and control stuff to make it further in the game. I try to hold off until I have a decent amount to play in 1 turn with some protection. From there I build. Having indestructible and shroud usually gets you in a great place to build your forces.
Danz's concept is a good starting point. You'll have to back up this strategy with countermeasures to neutralize threats that can evade those defenses (say, mass exile or tucking, effects that cause you to sacrifice permanents, and the occasional Ixidron).
Furthermore, I think it is good to revisit a solid piece of wisdom, courtesy of Raging Levine:
Quote from Raging Levine »
In Commander, the first person to do something nuts has the responsibility to protect it.
Regrettably, for us servants of the Hive, merely having three or more slivers in play automatically qualifies as 'doing something nuts'. That presents us with a conundrum - we need to have our spawn on the board to win.
My answer to this is to hold on to them and field them as responses. You're going to need as many flash-giving things in play as you possibly can to do it. Quick Sliver is, of course, a given; Vedalken Orrery and Winding Canyons will also perform well.
Cloudshredder Sliver.
Honestly, I kind of feel my shortcomings as a Magic player now. (Not to say my stupidity.) I saw Food Chain mentioned on several Facebook groups as an awesome card to synergize with The First Sliver, and we were discussing this card with my brother -who has much broader experience than I do-, and still I couldn't grasp why it's supposed to work so well. I mean, I can't really see past the resource boon thing. Cascade, more often than not, will mean free permanents in my case, most of which will be critters I can exile for mana with this card, and the Hive is always mana-starved. But for the love of the Queen, I can't factor it into any awesome plays on the same way I do with Mana Echoes or Intruder Alert.
I was thinking Dregscape Sliver is nothing short of awesome because it can potentially turn your graveyard into an extension of your hand. I wonder what would make you think it's subpar.
Were that to happen, it would fulfill one of my two dreams for slivers - the other being one that gave them infect. (Bite me. )
Yep, saw it. And there was much rejoicing.
Note that these are, according to the source, just some of all the slivers to be released on Modern Horizons. What other surprises are in store, I wonder?
And while we're at it, what awesome synergies do you guys see for The First Sliver?
The one reason for which I'm going to feature your list on the primer is because it's kitchen table Magic. A deck fit for social gaming. And, my friend, that's great.
You seem to know your deck well enough. I'm kind of afraid to give much advice, because most of the additions I'd suggest could have the unintended effect of boosting the power of your list beyond KTM. I think Vanquisher's Banner and Beast Whisperer are the most worthwile picks out of the list you mentioned last. Synapse Sliver has proved to be a lightning rod, and the fact that its ability procs via combat damage reduces its flexibility somewhat. Toxin Sliver is rather weak in my book for the same reason.
There are some qualities your swarm definitely needs - haste, flying, lifelink and mana. Duplication in those cases won't hurt. First strike and double strike overlap so pick one of each.
Speaking of Danz, he's definitely right. It's perfectly fine to play slivers just for fun - hell, back in the day EDH was kitchen table Magic, it all was like that. Then things got serious and everything escalated to the point we have that pesky COMPETITIVENESS thing to worry about in a format that can be broken six ways from Sunday.
My two cents - I believe the hatred slivers get is undeserved and exaggerated. Everyone panics whenever the Overlord is revealed but no one bats an eye at any one of the myriad stax commanders out there. Me, I'd much rather go against an ax crazy commander like, say, Kresh the Bloodbraided or any other deck that tries to bury me under a living tide of elves or goblins or what have you than having to put up with Grand Arbiter Augustin IV. To put it succinctly - when I sit down and pull my deck out, I want to play. I don't sit down to just watch someone not allowing anyone to play.
1 Sliver Overlord
Creatures:
1 Sliver Hivelord
1 Gemhide Sliver
1 Sliver Legion
1 Sentinel Sliver
1 Root Sliver
1 Syphon Sliver
1 Essence Sliver
1 Crystalline Sliver
1 Predatory Sliver
1 Two-Headed Sliver
1 Blur Sliver
1 Darkheart Sliver
1 Striking Sliver
1 Pulmonic Sliver
1 Might Sliver
1 Horned Sliver
1 Spinneret Sliver
1 Muscle Sliver
1 Leeching Sliver
1 Virulent Sliver
1 Quick Sliver
1 Acidic Sliver
1 Frenzy Sliver
1 Winged Sliver
1 Constricting Sliver
1 Plated Sliver
1 Venom Sliver
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Reflex Sliver
1 Bonesplitter Sliver
1 Shifting Sliver
1 Toxin Sliver
1 Sliver Queen
1 Crypt Sliver
1 Heart Sliver
1 Manaweft Sliver
1 Bonescythe Sliver
1 Sinew Sliver
1 Galerider Sliver
1 Temple of Malady
1 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Triumph
1 Command Tower
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple of Deceit
1 Temple of Plenty
1 Temple of Malice
1 Blood Crypt
1 Temple Garden
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple of Epiphany
1 Godless Shrine
1 Steam Vents
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Sliver Hive
1 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Island
3 Forest
3 Mountain
2 Plains
2 Swamp
Artifacts:
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Door of Destinies
1 Coat of Arms
1 Vanquisher's Banner
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Rhystic Study
1 Mana Echoes
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Spirit of Resistance
1 Descendant's Path
1 Aura Shards
1 Intruder Alarm
1 Training Grounds
1 Unnatural Selection
Sorceries:
1 Decree of Pain
1 Living Death
1 Necromantic Selection
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Martial Coup
1 In Garruk's Wake
1 Damnation
1 Patriarch's Bidding
Instants:
1 Sudden Spoiling
1 Cyclonic Rift
I'm passionate about slivers to a point not matched by anything else in MtG. Hell, in my pantheon they're next to things like S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Mass Effect, the Tzimisce, and Puella Magi Madoka Magica.
This thread is the result of all your work and contributions. I'm merely the janitor that keeps everything tidy. Usually DanzBorin or Gref have more and better insights than I do, probably owing to their broader experience. I'm rather narrow-minded when it comes to Magic, and that's probably my main flaw here.
I tried doing this, experimented. The result: you gotta have flying. Not for offense, you got other things that will help you punch through. Not having flyers will hurt your defense a lot.
If people want to kill your slivers, they'll cough up the extra mana or let you have that extra card. I'd swap them out. Long story short: things that proc once in a while are a precious waste of slots.
Darkheart Sliver is much, much better, if only for the simple reason that you don't have to pay mana on top of saccing to activate it. Typical response for a boardwipe - you can't bounce them, then turn them into food.
Replace them all. Gonna ship something that beefs up your slivers, might as well go all the way and bring in Megantic Sliver.
*The Queen nods slowly in approval* I'll have to try this out.
I'll have to try this one out, too.
EDIT - props to you for the 40k references. I'll have to adapt the main decklist to copy your format. Loved it!
My experience with such strategies has not been a good one. It repeatedly happens to me that whenever I have two or more slivers in play everyone stops and looks carefully at what I'm doing, even if they were durdling around before that. You try and pursue that plan, better be prepared to defend your plays or, worse still, to become de facto Archenemy.
I've found that mana stones usually are more fragile than lands. My current strategy heavily hinges on having few nonpermanent spells, so my list is brimming with them regardless. Now, about not using countermagic - I can hardly fault your reasoning, though I have my misgivings (see previous comment). Furthermore, stuff like Paradox Engine will more often than not earn a first-class ticket to the graveyard the moment they land, which means you'll profit from such staples only by deploying them simultaneously - and that requires, of course, mana by the truckload, which means they'll be dead weights in your hands up until that point.
Your picks are all good, so it's really hard for me to point out stuff I'd ditch. I will at least say that unless you have ways to protect it, you won't profit much from Rhystic Study. It's an absolute pain in the ass, and it will draw a lot of attention your way.
*The Queen shakes her head ruefully* I've had similar stuff told to me in the past. IMHO slivers stand at a disadvantage regarding other tribes. They're too powerful to go casual - even a list where your every nonland card consists of slivers (a clunky and inefficient plan, really) is going to pound the rest of the table into submission. And they're too underpowered to stand toe to toe with other tribes in a competitive environment: the best goblin decks will absolutely steamroll us, not to mention allies or elves.
Oftentimes I like to joke about just how much the slivers resemble the Tyranids from 40k. The alien intelligence in command of that swarm always adapts to overcome threats, and so should we. Just in the same way the 'nids would deploy xenomorph-like assassins to take out key enemy figureheads or straight-out subvert them by mind-controlling them, we will resort to non-sliver critters to do the jobs they can't - the none too kindly called thralls.
Danz's concept is a good starting point. You'll have to back up this strategy with countermeasures to neutralize threats that can evade those defenses (say, mass exile or tucking, effects that cause you to sacrifice permanents, and the occasional Ixidron).
Furthermore, I think it is good to revisit a solid piece of wisdom, courtesy of Raging Levine:
Regrettably, for us servants of the Hive, merely having three or more slivers in play automatically qualifies as 'doing something nuts'. That presents us with a conundrum - we need to have our spawn on the board to win.
My answer to this is to hold on to them and field them as responses. You're going to need as many flash-giving things in play as you possibly can to do it. Quick Sliver is, of course, a given; Vedalken Orrery and Winding Canyons will also perform well.