it's a pity that there aren't many good discard spells that have colorless mana in their costs because i don't think i ever got a discard spell through. i don't know if more discard would do the trick though...
well, if that discard spell drew a counter out of thier hand, then it did the job just fine.
i've been doing the silver bullet approach, lets just say pesicute is a beast.
i've also been trying to get more discard in the main deck, but you dont need it. other than 2 persicutes and haunting echos you should be plenty fine.
why's this in competitive?
there's several decks that just out pace this slow combo deck. such as the early harvest freeze deck which usually goes off on turn 4 and just wins on that turn.
4 main deck cranials lead me to a 3-1 overall finish tonight and 2-1 against TNN
Round 1 Extract TNN, hit 2 in their hand, then extract Titan. GG. Game2. Lost to just overall his better top decks than mine.. he had sided in fireball. had fireball in hand with 20+ mana on table. only needed a red source. top decked talismin, my next topdeck ( i know i shouldnt look but it was an extract) Game 3, Extract TNN. 2 in hand again. LOL w00t. oooh look titan in hand too. Extract hits titan in hand and one in deck. got KOKO on the table and consumed and then sac'd koko to moaning well. GG
Round 2 TNN, Game 1. OMFGWTFBBQ! i had a decent starting hand but he went first and reaped a land and then next turn plowed me in the arse. followed by another reap.. SCOOP. Game 2. woot. turn 2 arena. extract. extract. wait.. wait. wait. ok dead. Game 3. woot turn 2 arena. imprinted arena on mox, played arena. on his turn he blows up arena. BOOOO. on my turn i topdeck an arena, and play it and ride it on to victory! as i just topdeck well timed spells like eradicate when he played Titan. well i guess i dont have to extract it :), he scooped after seeing NOTHING for the past 8 shuffles with a top on the table. cards left in his deck that he could win with, Wittness, Sakura Tribe Elder. i could have double koko'd him next turn any way
Round 3 oh god. TNN AGAIN! uhg. i'm tired of this he's 2-0 i'm 2-0. we just glare at eachother. i get sub optimal hands not worthy of taking a mulligan and just lose 2-0 to his differnt than every one elses 3 slavers (no stone)
Round 4
MGA, omfg weee
his turn 2 he goes Greaves, i go WTF!? i have extract in hand but wtf do i extract? i didnt see him playing earlier. grrr thats what i get going and taking a smoke break instead of scouting.
i die to fangreen first born. oh snap.
game 2 and 3. identicle games. he plays beacon i play laughter., he plays beacon, i play laughter. i play NOSB next turn. HA! Dampening Matrix! HA! HA! Phyrexian Arena
HA HA HA! blow up random creature, solemn blocks random creature. stuff dies.
KOKUSHO! 4-8-22
out of 10 people over 50% were playing TNN
I ended up 3rd, 5 Packs and a Foil Juggernaught, yay.
my tie breakers sucked because the guy i played round 1 couldnt win crap the rest of the night against any thing.
i'll have to give harvester another chance again, i've noticed that i've been able to keep the board clear pretty good with the removal i have maybe instead of koko i'll try harvester. but i've had harvester chumpped so many times in the past that by the time he gets through i'm almost out of stuff i'm willing to sacrafice to hit them
Whoa whoa, you're talking about using three Cranial Extractions there. Keep in mind that they can still Oblivion Stone the board and then finish with a Rude Awakening.
Persecute takes out landsearch and Tooth.
\
well i guess i run hideous laughter for nothing more to kill trolls. hideous laugher never stops a rude :crazy:.
ok but yea.
if i extract them and i see rude. i will never tap out unless rude has been extracted.
well its not like i need to extract titan, 3 extractions are not uncommon to draw against tnn if i can hit their tnn turn 3 or 4 .then i usually can see 1 or 2 more in a game. arena draws soo many more cards, i usually have a pretty full hand against them, what ever they play usually dies before it hits me.
For having been targetted by it more than once, I know that Cranial Extraction is useless against TnN. Persecute , on the other hand, rocks.
In a game, I was Extracted 3 times and (a)Waken by a Nightmare twice. I still won.
In another game, I was Persecuted once (turn 3) and lost horribly. I only had 1 Forest and 1 Kiki-Jiki in hand.
i have had persicute in the main, it sucked soo bad. i'd persicute 2-3 cards from their hand looking at tron peices and a sundering titan. then they'd be in top deck mode and anything they get they can pretty much play after turn 5. in testing cranial has been alot better. cranial for titan cranial for tooth cranial for DSC or witness. any thing else that hits the board is pretty much dead and not comming back. i've run TNN out of threats with extract and enough removal. later one persicute is nothing more than a dead card, where as cranial can get threats from their deck.
i've given up on the main deck persicutes, i've gone for 4 md cranials just because 2/3rds of FNM is TNN, i hope i can play this friday, my gf is trying to talk me out of FNM because its been like 10 weeks straight, so i might loan it out to some one and have em play it. cuz she wants to see a movie with me instead of playing FNM :crazy:.
i've also thought about MD needle but that doesnt seem to be that great right now, but it'll be in the side with dampening matrix
i've found that yukora, while a fat beater for 2BB is doesnt seem to work out in this deck. i seem to drop it and sundering titans eat him up as i'm forced to block em, he sits in my hand against aggro,i just keep blowing their creatures up until they've stalled out then i drop kokusho and follow it up with swinging with koko twice and dropping another koko gg. barters just kill yukora over and over again. so he's dropped, solemn is in for chumps and mana accell into koko and consumes
I don't believe Tooth and Nail is a powerful card at all. The only reason it is good is because of the way the format exists. The large tutorable creatures are actually decent and can set up things to really hurt your opponent. As well, the acceleration is quite powerful.
The day a 9-mana sorcery is the best card in Standard is the day the game stops working.
well, as far as one broken/overpowered card goes, i dont see many that define the format like SkullClamp did before it got banned.
Cranial Extraction, Pithing Needle,TooTh And Nail,Shackles are all excellent cards. Kokusho is pretty good alone like kagemaru. but so are several other cards. Overall Green has been given a big boost lately, 3/2 nontargetable regen creature for 3 is pretty good. tooth and nail exists in this format because its a tutor. the rest of the decks are forced into topdecking to win. tooth can just TUTOR for their answers and devote the rest of the deck to mana accell and if they draw one of the cards they'd normall tutor for then they can usually play it. and TNN is 7 mana, 9 with entwine
Shooting at people is not like it looks in the movies. Over just a few hundred meters, the wind can really affect the trajectory of a round. Gusts in cities can be pretty tough to predict. What would the headlines have been if a single sniper fired a single round right into the skull of the little girl? (Please note that I have not read the article. I am just playing devil's advocate. )
true that.
probably still coulda used some form of LESS Lethal method. but rubberbullets were out because if they hit the kid they'd still die because they arent NON lethal like every one wants or THINKS they should be. they evaluated their options and did a poor job. sure a good shot in the guys leg or arm or head would have saved the kid, but bullets are not perfect, its not a video game ffs.
**** happens. people screwed up. 1 innocent dead. one bad guy dead.
@Erad, I have been working on a proxy making technique. I use blank index cards and print the back of an mtg card on one side, then photo copy the card I want to proxy, and then paste it to the blank side of the index card. The end product looks and feels just like a magic card, and even has the same stiffness.
too much work for that a sharpie and a sticky label can do. 5 seconds.
It's hard to relax when someone randomly posts some jank and claims that its just as viable as the competitive version of an archetype.
I visit competitive threads to discuss COMPETITIVE BUILDS of archetypes that I consider playing - not to correct some random newbs. And I really couldn't care less about some non-tournament results if it's not backed up by some good / foolproof explanations or logic.
Simply saying "I've been doing well with it" is never a valid argument. According to this argument, honden obliterate deck and almost landless affinity decks have also been doing well.
It's specifically that type of garbage and posters that's ruining the forum.
its a discussion board, if my garbage is doing well in playtesting against various other decks, does good while goldfishing and does well at a FNM then i'll be sure to keep it to my self from now on, and just keep my opinion to my self. Each area has differing meta's not all MBC's need deathcloud. i have run death cloud for a while and while it did do an excellent job of disrupting the game i always have been unable to recover from it. no mater what i have in play doesnt matter how big the cloud doesnt matter what i have in hand when i cloud it just doesnt do the job as good as other cards, as PJ I stated lets just start discussing MBC again and quit whining on how HIS DECK SUCKS and MY DECK ROCKS(but its supersecret tech so i wont post it), YOU NEED THIS CARD OR YOU ARE AN IDIOT, type discussion.
as far as post mirrodin rotation, we will have 9th edition at our disposal.
we will have blackmail, distress, Coercion, Cranial Extraction, Hypnotic Specter even. thats quite a fair amount of disruption, sure Block may be shifting towards gifts, but that doesnt mean it will be the "deck to beat" i'm sure some WW or other Agro deck will be the T2 agro deck to be delt with.
as far as gifts dominating. gifts shouldnt be a big problem with enough early disruption, thats 3 cards there B,BB,2B, casting cost. 3 turns of disrtuption should hold em off. BlackMail was voted into 9th so we know thats a for sure that we will have that card at our disposal. besides gifts rolls over to an early extract which can be achieved as early as turn 3 with just a fellwar stone and not missing 3 land drops off of 2-3 draws.
You guys have no clue what the two biggest losses to MBC is from Mirrodin. Here's a hint, they are both Artifacts. No more Damping Matrix and no more Chrome Mox means the deck loses a lot of its power.
and your point is..
we dont know what ravnica is bringing to us other than that cool phyrexian arena creature, i'm sure they will have plenty of replacement removal spells for us to use. only reason we needed mox was because we needed to accelerate into a turn 2 arena and turn 3 cranial/persicute. but taht was because all the other decks were fast, tooth is a minor problem the format will slow down. and mbc will still be fine.
well, if that discard spell drew a counter out of thier hand, then it did the job just fine.
i've been doing the silver bullet approach, lets just say pesicute is a beast.
i've also been trying to get more discard in the main deck, but you dont need it. other than 2 persicutes and haunting echos you should be plenty fine.
**** zwick
**** texas.
there's several decks that just out pace this slow combo deck. such as the early harvest freeze deck which usually goes off on turn 4 and just wins on that turn.
Round 1 Extract TNN, hit 2 in their hand, then extract Titan. GG. Game2. Lost to just overall his better top decks than mine.. he had sided in fireball. had fireball in hand with 20+ mana on table. only needed a red source. top decked talismin, my next topdeck ( i know i shouldnt look but it was an extract) Game 3, Extract TNN. 2 in hand again. LOL w00t. oooh look titan in hand too. Extract hits titan in hand and one in deck. got KOKO on the table and consumed and then sac'd koko to moaning well. GG
Round 2 TNN, Game 1. OMFGWTFBBQ! i had a decent starting hand but he went first and reaped a land and then next turn plowed me in the arse. followed by another reap.. SCOOP. Game 2. woot. turn 2 arena. extract. extract. wait.. wait. wait. ok dead. Game 3. woot turn 2 arena. imprinted arena on mox, played arena. on his turn he blows up arena. BOOOO. on my turn i topdeck an arena, and play it and ride it on to victory! as i just topdeck well timed spells like eradicate when he played Titan. well i guess i dont have to extract it :), he scooped after seeing NOTHING for the past 8 shuffles with a top on the table. cards left in his deck that he could win with, Wittness, Sakura Tribe Elder. i could have double koko'd him next turn any way
Round 3 oh god. TNN AGAIN! uhg. i'm tired of this he's 2-0 i'm 2-0. we just glare at eachother. i get sub optimal hands not worthy of taking a mulligan and just lose 2-0 to his differnt than every one elses 3 slavers (no stone)
Round 4
MGA, omfg weee
his turn 2 he goes Greaves, i go WTF!? i have extract in hand but wtf do i extract? i didnt see him playing earlier. grrr thats what i get going and taking a smoke break instead of scouting.
i die to fangreen first born. oh snap.
game 2 and 3. identicle games. he plays beacon i play laughter., he plays beacon, i play laughter. i play NOSB next turn. HA! Dampening Matrix! HA! HA! Phyrexian Arena
HA HA HA! blow up random creature, solemn blocks random creature. stuff dies.
KOKUSHO! 4-8-22
out of 10 people over 50% were playing TNN
I ended up 3rd, 5 Packs and a Foil Juggernaught, yay.
my tie breakers sucked because the guy i played round 1 couldnt win crap the rest of the night against any thing.
well i guess i run hideous laughter for nothing more to kill trolls. hideous laugher never stops a rude :crazy:.
ok but yea.
if i extract them and i see rude. i will never tap out unless rude has been extracted.
well its not like i need to extract titan, 3 extractions are not uncommon to draw against tnn if i can hit their tnn turn 3 or 4 .then i usually can see 1 or 2 more in a game. arena draws soo many more cards, i usually have a pretty full hand against them, what ever they play usually dies before it hits me.
i have had persicute in the main, it sucked soo bad. i'd persicute 2-3 cards from their hand looking at tron peices and a sundering titan. then they'd be in top deck mode and anything they get they can pretty much play after turn 5. in testing cranial has been alot better. cranial for titan cranial for tooth cranial for DSC or witness. any thing else that hits the board is pretty much dead and not comming back. i've run TNN out of threats with extract and enough removal. later one persicute is nothing more than a dead card, where as cranial can get threats from their deck.
i've also thought about MD needle but that doesnt seem to be that great right now, but it'll be in the side with dampening matrix
3 blinkmoth nexus
1 shizo, death's storehouse
2 miren, the moaning well
Land - 22 Spells - 30 creatures - 8
4 hideous laughter
4 phyrexian arena
4 hirobi's whisper
3 distress
3 consume spirit
4 barter in blood
4 chrome mox
4 cranial extraction
4 Kokusho, the evening star
4 solemn simulacrum
3 dampening matrix
3 persicute
3 defense grids
3 bosaiju, who shelters all
3 night of souls betrayl
i've found that yukora, while a fat beater for 2BB is doesnt seem to work out in this deck. i seem to drop it and sundering titans eat him up as i'm forced to block em, he sits in my hand against aggro,i just keep blowing their creatures up until they've stalled out then i drop kokusho and follow it up with swinging with koko twice and dropping another koko gg. barters just kill yukora over and over again. so he's dropped, solemn is in for chumps and mana accell into koko and consumes
well, as far as one broken/overpowered card goes, i dont see many that define the format like SkullClamp did before it got banned.
Cranial Extraction, Pithing Needle,TooTh And Nail,Shackles are all excellent cards. Kokusho is pretty good alone like kagemaru. but so are several other cards. Overall Green has been given a big boost lately, 3/2 nontargetable regen creature for 3 is pretty good. tooth and nail exists in this format because its a tutor. the rest of the decks are forced into topdecking to win. tooth can just TUTOR for their answers and devote the rest of the deck to mana accell and if they draw one of the cards they'd normall tutor for then they can usually play it. and TNN is 7 mana, 9 with entwine
true that.
probably still coulda used some form of LESS Lethal method. but rubberbullets were out because if they hit the kid they'd still die because they arent NON lethal like every one wants or THINKS they should be. they evaluated their options and did a poor job. sure a good shot in the guys leg or arm or head would have saved the kid, but bullets are not perfect, its not a video game ffs.
**** happens. people screwed up. 1 innocent dead. one bad guy dead.
too much work for that a sharpie and a sticky label can do. 5 seconds.
its a discussion board, if my garbage is doing well in playtesting against various other decks, does good while goldfishing and does well at a FNM then i'll be sure to keep it to my self from now on, and just keep my opinion to my self. Each area has differing meta's not all MBC's need deathcloud. i have run death cloud for a while and while it did do an excellent job of disrupting the game i always have been unable to recover from it. no mater what i have in play doesnt matter how big the cloud doesnt matter what i have in hand when i cloud it just doesnt do the job as good as other cards, as PJ I stated lets just start discussing MBC again and quit whining on how HIS DECK SUCKS and MY DECK ROCKS(but its supersecret tech so i wont post it), YOU NEED THIS CARD OR YOU ARE AN IDIOT, type discussion.
we will have blackmail, distress, Coercion, Cranial Extraction, Hypnotic Specter even. thats quite a fair amount of disruption, sure Block may be shifting towards gifts, but that doesnt mean it will be the "deck to beat" i'm sure some WW or other Agro deck will be the T2 agro deck to be delt with.
as far as gifts dominating. gifts shouldnt be a big problem with enough early disruption, thats 3 cards there B,BB,2B, casting cost. 3 turns of disrtuption should hold em off. BlackMail was voted into 9th so we know thats a for sure that we will have that card at our disposal. besides gifts rolls over to an early extract which can be achieved as early as turn 3 with just a fellwar stone and not missing 3 land drops off of 2-3 draws.
and your point is..
we dont know what ravnica is bringing to us other than that cool phyrexian arena creature, i'm sure they will have plenty of replacement removal spells for us to use. only reason we needed mox was because we needed to accelerate into a turn 2 arena and turn 3 cranial/persicute. but taht was because all the other decks were fast, tooth is a minor problem the format will slow down. and mbc will still be fine.