Did you also lose faith in Wizards for catering to people when they removed damage from the stack, mana burn, the legend rule, etc.?
Yes. Damage on the stack was a big one for me, it made combat more interesting especially since they are promoting this as the main strategy by printing ever more powerful creatures with spells attached. I understand that it's a business decision to make the game easier to learn, but less complexity = less fun. All these minor changes aren't enough to make me want to quit playing, but they are starting to add up. EDH was pretty much the only format I was playing, and these last few changes make me want to play it less than the already infrequent amount I was playing. I guess the idea of resource management is too complicated for people to grasp, much less the stack. So I'll just stick to cube where I can ignore all the terrible things Wotc and the RC are doing to this game. Oh yeah, and every card frame update looks worse than the last, especially with the stupid foil stamp that looks like it's only purpose is so they can intentionally misprint cards without it.
Hey, I've been working on a zoo warriors tribal list for a couple weeks and it has been fun. Do you guys have any suggestions? I'm not really sure on the sideboard yet, I've played against: twin(favorable matchup, less if they have Anger of the gods sideboard), affinity(About even, slightly in my favor), storm(About even, turn two Blood Moon crushed me), infect(favorable, although I'm not sure his list was optimal), BUG control(unfavorable, though I think I can adjust my strategy to improve this matchup), Mono blue Tron(misplayed a few times and he Slavered me so I lost, I think I needed to race more than try to play around his counters). Other decks I've seen at FNMs: Amulet Bloom, Grixis Delver, GR Tron, Burn, Mono green Belcher. Overall the deck is pretty fast and my game plan most matchups is clog up the board with efficient dudes, pump them, disrupt my opponent, and aggro them to death. I want to add abrupt decays back at least in the sideboard, but I don't have any, same goes for the cavern of souls. I want to try Aether Vial, but I think it's too slow. I'm still not sure on the lands yet either, right now I'm at 20 and I've kept one land hands and not drawn a second land, and also had games that I drew 6-7 lands and was not thrilled with that either, there also have been times where I have been color screwed. I'm not sure I like the Gavony Township yet, as I'm currently playing Vault of the Archangel in place of it until I get one, but the colorless land hurts regardless.
If you guys can't win without Wanderer in the command zone, then you built your deck wrong. Most of the time he just sits in the command zone until I have nothing in hand to play, or nobody has blockers and I have time warps in hand. And if he gets tucked I am most likely not wasting my tutor searching for him when I can just find a card that wins me the game. The best part about tuck was that it punished people who built linear inflexible decks that depend way too much on the commander. If we are going to make rulings/bannings because people are bad/lazy deckbuilders then the banlist is going to be a mile long. This is the same reason people complain about mass land destruction, because their deck is poorly addressed to handle that strategy and instead of METAGAMING they just complain and refuse to play like children. I'm sorry if there is something I play that is unfun to you, but this game is all about metagaming and balance, one strategy may beat out another, but that one has weaknesses as well. If you constantly lose to something in your meta, then METAGAME against them, find their decks weaknesses and exploit them, find your decks weaknesses to that strategy and try to add resiliency. It seem like people don't want to interact in this format, either in game or in deckbuilding, everyone just wants to play solitaire which is evident by all the hyper competitive linear combo decks. Yes my Maelstrom Wanderer deck is absurdly broken and fast, but there are cards that just stop me from going off but nobody plays them so I only have to play like two answers in my deck. If MW is a problem for you try playing Rule of Law.
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer should have been the third choice instead of Bosh. Anyhow, there are many lists for these generals in the decklist forum that you can look at and get ideas.
The comment made earlier about playing a less graveyard oriented deck got me thinking, has anybody tried playing without black and just going Temur? So I decided to throw together a list, I haven't put much thought into tweaking or testing it yet but here it is:
The best commander I have that fits these criterion is Dromar, the Banisher. He has flying, with Sword of Kaldra/Umezawa's Jitte and True Conviction he can one shot people otherwise is a four turn clock on his own and has a relevant ability. He also gives you access to Esper colors so you should have plenty of gas and a solid control backup plan. It is my favorite deck to play and probably my best for multiplayer, while also being one of my opponents least favorite to play against. Plus you can maindeck Zur the Enchanter and swap them depending on matchups, Dromar is better vs. control and Zur is better vs. aggro. Whatever you decide upon I highly suggest playing white for True Conviction, it's just too good not to play. The rest of the invasion cycle of dragons are good too (specifically Numot, the Devastator) as well as the new dragons from Fate Reforged and Dragons of Tarkir. Lastly even though he lacks evasion Maelstrom Wanderer plus ramp into time walks is really strong as you only need to connect three times and he has haste so two extra turns vs a clear board spells death.
I haven't read much of this thread so excuse me if this has been asked before, but how do people feel about Grave strength and Become Immense in this deck? I have been working on a list since FRF because I wanted to play grave strength, I haven't tested it at all yet but here is my list:
All of the colors have the same amount of skill intensity because you're playing against an opponent and must anticipate their plays and try to play around them. In modern there are certain decks that try to play past the opponent and interact as little as possible, these decks cover all five colors between them (Bogles, Infect, Ad nauseam, Affinity, Amulet Bloom, etc.). People who say that blue is the most skill intensive color are wrong, it's not. The thing with playing blue is that it is the least forgiving color to play. Since you are usually playing reactively it is very easy for a poor decision to put you far behind in the game. Whereas when actively trying to advance your boardstate and you make the decision to play a threat that gets answered, you are not behind but even on the trade because they had to spend resources to stop you. I wouldn't say that playing blue requires more skill, but usually requires more experience because you need to have knowledge of what your opponents might play so that you can react accordingly. Additionally blue's threats are generally weaker than the other colors which makes their decisions more important because it is more difficult for them to close out games, which is why blue is generally used as a support color.
TL;DR It's not the color that determines the skill intensity but the choice of deck and the current meta.
Mostly though modern is missing a few key things to keep the archetypes balanced. These are: a Force of Will type card to keep non-interactive decks in check (I think Mental Misstep fills this role well, helps slow down the format, and increases variance against the linear strategies), a Wasteland effect to keep tron, 12 post, and greedy manabases in check, and a Brainstorm effect to improve controls late game (Jace, the Mind Sculptor).
I think that the actual problem with the format though is a simple lack of creativity by the players. Far too many people just netdeck something that puts up good results and as it happens abzan has the best results vs. most of the field. The entire point of a meta is to try to build something that will beat out what you are expecting to see. Since so many people netdeck lists, it is easy to know what to expect and thus build a deck that has the best chance of beating those decks, which happens to be abzan. But when people actually metagame properly and bring their own deck ideas to the table abzan starts to get significantly worse, as they can't predict the field and people will play cards that are good against them (the Wilted Liege deck comes to mind here). Too many people believe that the format is solved in the tier one decks that they fail to bring originality to the format which keeps the tier one decks powerful. This is partly because pros are required to play the format and it is their job to win so they want to play a deck thats been proven i.e tier one, and then people look up to the pros and netdeck their lists. If pros were able to play modern for "Fun" rather than work, then we would see a lot more diversity in decklists.
I can combo turn 4 with a god hand, but turn 5 is more probable with zur and two pieces in hand. Turn one dork, turn two o-ring, turn three zur, turn four fetch up Grim Guardian, turn five play second o-oring then tutor up the third. The combo is slow, but it's only there as a tertiary option and the o-rings are good enough to play anyhow. The game plan is to land turn two/three threat or hate card, then clear the way to aggro them to death. The blood moon doesn't really hurt me that much with birds and nobles in play, and usually search for it with zur so I don't really need to cast anything else. I originally was running fetches + shocks but was taking way too much damage and then I went from four color to five to play mantis rider so I switched up the lands to 4 city of brass, 4 mana confluence, 4 reflecting pool. I still needed more duals and didn't want to take any more damage and turns 1-3 are my critical plays so I went with the scars lands. The argument for discard over dorks may be right, but I wanted to be able to land turn two threat, hate, or combo piece. I just wish there was a dork that didn't die to bolt, I might go back to fetches plus shocks in order to play Utopia Sprawl over birds. Is Lightning Angel modern legal? It doesn't allow for turn two plays, but it also doesn't die to bolt or abrupt decay, I may consider that over riders. With noble and rider I can swing for four on turn two, turn three swing for four again and play a geist, turn four swing for nine totaling 17 damage which is probably lethal barring blocks/removal and bolt can put it to 20 if need be(I took out remands for bolts since I don't have remands and it was a really bad late game draw). Or go dork into geist turn two, then mantis rider turn three and swing for nine, turn four swing for nine again totaling 18 damage again probably lethal, so I can meet the modern is a turn four format requirement. Mantis rider has the plus of wearing a steel of the godhead nicely and being good against planeswalkers, they kill geist with lilliana or kill zur with karn or ugin, then I can play a mantis rider and finish of the PW. I played one game against RG tron and didn't lose to a resolved emrakul, sacced all but zur to annihilator, went to 8 life then swing with zur and o-ring the emrakul. Turn one bolt my dork sucks, but it just means that I play my threats a turn slower and now they don't have bolt for my mantis rider, pathing the dork still allows me turn two threats.
So I've been working on a 5 color Zur list for a couple days and I really like it. The idea is to get turn one dork to enable turn two Geist or Mantis Rider, or turn three Zur, then clear the way to get the damage through and/or protect my threat. I'm also able to take a more controlling route and go for three O-ring + Grim Guardian combo with Zur. Then I basically have a toolbox of silver bullet cards in the sideboard. The mana-base is a bit painful, I still need to work it out a bit. I really like how I can play as an aggro deck or as a control/combo deck. I'm really not sold on the remands/abrupt decays, mostly because I don't have any and they're expensive. Manits Rider is more vulnerable to removal than Geist or Zur, but is less vulnerable in combat and has a more immediate impact. I think I might want to play some amount of bolts in place of remands/abrupt decays to help finish out the aggro plan. Any input or suggestions would be great. Anyhow here's the list:
I think most people are missing the point here. Mentor is good in decks that already want to cast spells like burn and tokens. You trade off some of your speed in a burn deck in order to get more consistency against the fair decks. I've been working on a list for a while that goes less all in on burn spells in order to develop board state. So now I'm playing a deck with less burn spells, but with creatures that let me generate more value out of my burn spells. Here is my list so far:
Yes. Damage on the stack was a big one for me, it made combat more interesting especially since they are promoting this as the main strategy by printing ever more powerful creatures with spells attached. I understand that it's a business decision to make the game easier to learn, but less complexity = less fun. All these minor changes aren't enough to make me want to quit playing, but they are starting to add up. EDH was pretty much the only format I was playing, and these last few changes make me want to play it less than the already infrequent amount I was playing. I guess the idea of resource management is too complicated for people to grasp, much less the stack. So I'll just stick to cube where I can ignore all the terrible things Wotc and the RC are doing to this game. Oh yeah, and every card frame update looks worse than the last, especially with the stupid foil stamp that looks like it's only purpose is so they can intentionally misprint cards without it.
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Bramblewood Paragon
1 Champion of Lambholt
1 Mardu Strike Leader
4 Chief of the Edge
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Sunblade Elf
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Marsh Flats
4 Windswept Heath
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
1 Mountain
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Gavony Township
Sideboard:
P.S. Warriors, come out to play. Warriors, come out to plaaay. Warriors, come out to Plaaaayay!
2 Forest
1 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Faithless Looting
3 Stomping Ground
1 Mountain
4 Hedron Crab
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Island
2 Breeding Pool
4 Flamewake Phoenix
4 Skaab Ruinator
2 Life from the Loam
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Satyr Wayfinder
2 Steam Vents
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Flame Jab
3 Hooting Mandrills
1 Become Immense
With the sideboard so far:
I wish Punishing Fire was legal.
3 Become Immense
4 Vengevine
4 Bloodghast
3 Golgari Thug
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Swamp
1 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Stinkweed Imp
4 Faithless Looting
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mountain
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Hedron Crab
1 Watery Grave
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Breeding Pool
1 Darkblast
3 Magus of the Bazaar
1 Steam Vents
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Flamewake Phoenix
Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
TL;DR It's not the color that determines the skill intensity but the choice of deck and the current meta.
Mostly though modern is missing a few key things to keep the archetypes balanced. These are: a Force of Will type card to keep non-interactive decks in check (I think Mental Misstep fills this role well, helps slow down the format, and increases variance against the linear strategies), a Wasteland effect to keep tron, 12 post, and greedy manabases in check, and a Brainstorm effect to improve controls late game (Jace, the Mind Sculptor).
I think that the actual problem with the format though is a simple lack of creativity by the players. Far too many people just netdeck something that puts up good results and as it happens abzan has the best results vs. most of the field. The entire point of a meta is to try to build something that will beat out what you are expecting to see. Since so many people netdeck lists, it is easy to know what to expect and thus build a deck that has the best chance of beating those decks, which happens to be abzan. But when people actually metagame properly and bring their own deck ideas to the table abzan starts to get significantly worse, as they can't predict the field and people will play cards that are good against them (the Wilted Liege deck comes to mind here). Too many people believe that the format is solved in the tier one decks that they fail to bring originality to the format which keeps the tier one decks powerful. This is partly because pros are required to play the format and it is their job to win so they want to play a deck thats been proven i.e tier one, and then people look up to the pros and netdeck their lists. If pros were able to play modern for "Fun" rather than work, then we would see a lot more diversity in decklists.
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Brain Maggot
1 Grim Guardian
4 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Mantis Rider
4 Zur the Enchanter
1 Bitterblossom
4 Oblivion Ring
1 Detention Sphere
2 Steel of the Godhead
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Remand
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 City of Brass
4 Mana Confluence
4 Reflecting Pool
3 Seachrome Coast
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Darkslick Shores
Sideboard:
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Alesha, Who Smiles at Death
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Soulfire Grand Master
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Figure of Destiny
4 Lightning Helix
4 Boros Charm
4 Path to Exile
2 Shard Volley
1 Searing Blaze
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
1 Stomping Ground
2 Wooded Foothills
And here's the sideboard so far: