I also think some of the cards might be borderline broken, but i might be wrong. (phyrexian reclamation/spout swarm)
Thanks for the comments! I'm feeling pretty excited about this project. There's a lot of design space that opens up once you slow aggro down a couple turns.
Auramancer - I just switched it for Monk Idealist as I like the art better, and I don't want 2 of the same effect.
Sanctum Gargoyle - Treasure Hunter, Sanctum Gargoyle, and Razor Hippogriff came out when I decided to most orient White with Enchantments...I'm not sure how I feel about running both alongside each other. It does seem to be a shame to not take advantage of white's artifact recursion when I'm running so many artifacts.
Carrier Thrall - Struck me as too generally good. Butcher Ghoul might be a more fair version.
Pawn of Ulamog - Is an awesome card, I've left it out as I thought it might be a little too good and too easy for the sac deck. Do you think it would be reasonable?
Blood Artist - Was downgraded to Zulaport Cutthroat, because black already has Falkenrath Noble and I didn't want things to be too easy.
Kiln Fiend - May make it in, but it's lack of evasion turned me off. I'd need to run shadow rift type stuff to make it particularly useful I think. Not sure I have the room in blue.
I'll change reclamation to Disturbed Burial instead. I wanted a way to use the lifegain in Orzhov, but I see how it could get too out of hand in the slower format.
Sprout Swarm is probably far too good. I'm trying to find a reasonable mana sink in green. Maybe Centaur Glade? There's enough enchantment hate to keep it from getting to crazy.
EDIT: A couple more decks
Red Aggro to get a sense of the spectrum of speeds:
Edited down to 360. Lowered the power of removal even more, and I'm slowly trimming out cards that are overpowered for the environment. More token support to green and white has been added, and I cut the Arcbound creatures as they're just not good enough. Small lifegain matters support added which includes Bloodhunter Bat, but it's on the watchlist lest it warp my format.
Promising Archetype is BUG Lands...that focuses on untapping karoos and enchanted lands. Karoo shenanigans with Mortuary Mire and Halimar Depths. I misclicked on a card and missed drafting Caustic Tar for this deck which would be obscene.
Making the removal conditional was a great choice, although it makes me sad that executioner's capsule can hit artifact creatures since it is far and away the best piece of removal in the list in a vacuum.
You know, I didn't realize it hit artifact creatures until you said it, and that does make it too good for my turn 2 cube. Fortunately, salvagers still has plenty of targets to stick around in my list. Looks like I'll be bringing in seal of doom again to synergize with my auramancer bros
I just cut illusory angel for it. Angel's novelty has worn off for me. I'd rather have a creature I can cast whenever I want. It was nice in spells matters, but functionally useless elsewhere for me. That of course varies with how your blue section is set up. Snap/gush tempo isn't something I support.
In regards to your question in the main thread: The only way I see ramp being over supported is in the amount of high cmc ramp targets you're running. You've doubled your amount of huge colorless beasties, while adding more to greens top-end as well. The amount of ramping cards seems completely reasonable. I'd probably trim a 6 drop for an aggro-oriented 3 drop. As boring as it is, I think trusted forcemage is the best option we have at the moment. I've really come around to it over time, stacking with other boosting effects can make things get out of hand quickly, and it's a really nice play off a mana elf on turn two. It is my first card to replace when we finally get a staple aggro 3 drop, but it's been a valuable role player here.
Channeler seems very ordinary and not particularly clutch in any mode. It's a poor body for the cost, and acceleration after turn 5 gets less and less relevant. I guess having a blocker that can enable capsize with buyback, and eventually go on the offensive would be okay...but I struggle to think of other relevant contexts.
Cycling lands have been really welcome for me in my side project for the same reasons as you state for the karoos.
I don't think I'd ever draft those egg type cards unless I had synergies.
yeah, you're right about the cycling lands....they were only just cut in the last round as i was trying to get near 360.
the system does work better with multiples of chromatic star and friends. that way it's functional mana fixing no matter what your deck is...as there's almost no 1-drops, and all mana fixing is slow. i may give in and break singleton for that alone.
as it stands there's a decent amount of synergy for the eggs with the prowess guys and things like salvagers and skywise teachings...but there's no synergy in green and black, and very little in red.
Can this be thrown on cubetutor? It's a little hard to look at through the spreadsheet. I'm interested in a lot of decks you're working with here. I just posted a new cube and I see some overlaps with what you're doing. I think you posted this list when I was sucked into Modern as I haven't seen it until now.
The decks look akin to themed starter decks. Which is a good thing I think. I haven't had time to look at everything in depth, but my first question is if you're at 1200+ cards with a lot of cards in multiples (some 4+), why don't you cut the entire thing in half? Same odds for most cards, but you don't have to load it into the back of a pickup truck for game nights.
Hey guys, I just posted my new idea for a cube: The Turn 2 Peasant Cube. If you guys have some time to sample draft and give me some opinions, I'd appreciate it!
This is my first draft of a peasant cube that favors heavy interaction and diversified gameplay at the cost of overt power, efficient removal, 2-for-1s, and turn-one aggro strategies (hence the "Turn 2").
Cube Size: 360 Breakdown: 49 Each Color, 30 Multicolor, 95 Colorless
Format: Peasant - Any card ever coined as uncommon by Wizards is fair game. This includes online releases, U2s, and foreign printings.
Portal: Yes
Un-Cards: No
Average # of Players: 4-8
The foundation for this idea was inspired by Grillo_Parlante's Penny Pincher Cube. The basic rationale for Karoos + Eggs is to reduce the amount of non-games due to mana screw, and to provide enough mana sinks to counteract mana flood. I'm less concerned with non-games as I am with using that configuration as a starting point for a slower more limited-like format that maintains archetype integrity. My interpretation is still within Peasant Restrictions and I have chosen to stick with Singleton for now.
I would love to hear any opinions, and discuss sample decklists to address unnecessary redundancies, power inconsistencies, and areas that need support.
I've noticed that a lot of people use blue as a reanimator support color. Any particular reason to not keep all the direct support in black? Stuff like Raven's Crime, Smallpox, Rotting Rats, and Macabre Waltz all seem awesome there. I really like the idea of smallpox alongside annihilators
raven's crime, rakdos guildmage, and maybe last rites are the most playable discard outlets in black. raven's crime in particular is straight filthy....it wrecks so much over here
I think the primary reason is that "going wide" with white is more valued as an aggressive strategy. The Exalted creatures are lower powered as well. Akrasan Squire, Knight of Infamy, and Knight of Glory are the only ones I'd consider in a standard peasant cube. Spending your combat step to swing with a single guy isn't always the best strategy when there's a lot of good spot removal floating around.
It still leaves me a blood pet if it dies bdog, and blue might like having extra mana the most of any color.
Inscho
io, majikian, and I each put the spawner in our top 3 independently. Majikian claimed it cryptically early, and I posted last of the 3 without reading anyone's thing.
I'm not actually trying to discredit anyone, I think the card is good, but not as strong as the 4 big gnarly dudes we got. It's just surprising. I mean we've had a lot of conversations about wing splicer in the past and blue 4 drops are far weaker than its 3's. Skyspawner is better, but not vastly so. I don't see my blue decks that want to rock 5+ drops running the skyspawner, it's also reminds me of those attended knight conversations we've had. Skyspawner is more on the aggro side of the spectrum compared the the knight given its evasion, but it's a reasonable comparison.
The fact that the token sacs for mana isn't crazy relevant for blue decks. Blue wants more consistent mana.
Thanks for the comments! I'm feeling pretty excited about this project. There's a lot of design space that opens up once you slow aggro down a couple turns.
Auramancer - I just switched it for Monk Idealist as I like the art better, and I don't want 2 of the same effect.
Sanctum Gargoyle - Treasure Hunter, Sanctum Gargoyle, and Razor Hippogriff came out when I decided to most orient White with Enchantments...I'm not sure how I feel about running both alongside each other. It does seem to be a shame to not take advantage of white's artifact recursion when I'm running so many artifacts.
Carrier Thrall - Struck me as too generally good. Butcher Ghoul might be a more fair version.
Pawn of Ulamog - Is an awesome card, I've left it out as I thought it might be a little too good and too easy for the sac deck. Do you think it would be reasonable?
Blood Artist - Was downgraded to Zulaport Cutthroat, because black already has Falkenrath Noble and I didn't want things to be too easy.
Kiln Fiend - May make it in, but it's lack of evasion turned me off. I'd need to run shadow rift type stuff to make it particularly useful I think. Not sure I have the room in blue.
I'll change reclamation to Disturbed Burial instead. I wanted a way to use the lifegain in Orzhov, but I see how it could get too out of hand in the slower format.
Sprout Swarm is probably far too good. I'm trying to find a reasonable mana sink in green. Maybe Centaur Glade? There's enough enchantment hate to keep it from getting to crazy.
EDIT: A couple more decks
Red Aggro to get a sense of the spectrum of speeds:
1x Mogg Fanatic
1x Ashmouth Hound
1x Gruul Guildmage
1x Humble Defector
1x Mogg Flunkies
1x Rakdos Guildmage
1x Torch Fiend
1x Viashino Slaughtermaster
1x Keldon Vandals
1x Pyreheart Wolf
1x Enthralling Victor
1x Tormentor Exarch
1x Scuzzback Marauders
1x Phyrexian War Beast
1x Spined Thopter
Artifact
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
Instant
1x Galvanic Blast
1x Harvest Pyre
1x Lightning Strike
1x Flame Javelin
1x Artillerize
Sorcery
1x Pyrotechnics
1x Barrage of Expendables
1x Rageform
Land
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Forgotten Cave
1x Sandstone Bridge
13x Mountain
Storm Deck with a potential combo finish:
1x Jeskai Elder
1x Riftwing Cloudskate
1x Gelectrode
1x Guttersnipe
1x Jhessian Thief
1x Zephyr Scribe
1x Archaeomancer
1x Mistfire Adept
1x Mnemonic Wall
1x Peregrine Drake
1x Perilous Myr
Instant
1x Whispers of the Muse
1x Deprive
1x Harvest Pyre
1x Remand
1x Turn // Burn
1x Complicate
1x Ghostly Flicker
1x Volt Charge
1x Dragon Fodder
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Pyrotechnics
1x Slice and Dice
Land
1x Boros Garrison
1x Temple of the False God
1x Urza's Factory
9x Island
5x Mountain
A mono black sacrifice deck:
1x Carrion Feeder
1x Qarsi High Priest
1x Bloodthrone Vampire
1x Corpse Hauler
1x Nezumi Graverobber
1x Reassembling Skeleton
1x Cadaver Imp
1x Liliana's Specter
1x Bloodhunter Bat
1x Entomber Exarch
1x Faceless Butcher
1x Falkenrath Noble
1x Vulturous Aven
1x Swarm of Bloodflies
1x Myr Sire
1x Moriok Replica
Artifact
1x Mortarpod
1x Spawning Pit
Sorcery
1x Disturbed Burial
1x Corpsehatch
Enchantment
1x Vampiric Rites
1x Stab Wound
1x Brain Maggot
Land
1x Barren Moor
1x Ghost Quarter
15x Swamp
Dimir Control:
1x Crypt Rats
1x Psychatog
1x Silumgar Sorcerer
1x Blizzard Specter
1x Mnemonic Wall
1x Prescient Chimera
Artifact
1x Unstable Obelisk
Instant
1x Miscalculation
1x Nameless Inversion
1x Remand
1x Capsize
1x Complicate
1x Clutch of Currents
1x Chainer's Edict
1x Crippling Fatigue
1x Barter in Blood
1x Deep Analysis
1x Corpsehatch
Enchantment
1x Spreading Seas
1x Seal of Doom
1x Binding Grasp
1x Skywise Teachings
1x Caustic Tar
1x Dimir Aqueduct
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Halimar Depths
8x Island
6x Swamp
Dimir Saboteur:
1x Cloud of Faeries
1x Ninja of the Deep Hours
1x Riftwing Cloudskate
1x Liliana's Specter
1x Mistblade Shinobi
1x Pestermite
1x Silumgar Sorcerer
1x Falkenrath Noble
1x Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1x Sultai Scavenger
1x Signal Pest
1x Spined Thopter
Artifact
1x Trusty Machete
1x Tumble Magnet
Instant
1x Darkblast
1x Tragic Slip
1x Undying Evil
1x Miscalculation
1x Remand
1x Snap
1x Capsize
1x Gitaxian Probe
Enchantment Creature
1x Brain Maggot
1x Spiteful Returned
Land
1x Evolving Wilds
8x Island
7x Swamp
Selesnya Counters:
1x Deftblade Elite
1x Quirion Ranger
1x Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
1x Phantom Nomad
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Serene Steward
1x Syndic of Tithes
1x Wandering Wolf
1x Abzan Falconer
1x Phantom Tiger
1x Spike Feeder
1x Tuskguard Captain
1x Cytoplast Root-Kin
1x Longshot Squad
1x Juniper Order Ranger
1x Rust Scarab
1x Dispeller's Capsule
1x Contagion Clasp
Instant
1x Otherworldly Journey
1x Encircling Fissure
Sorcery
1x Hunting Triad
Enchantment
1x Armadillo Cloak
1x Lightform
Enchantment Creature
1x Leafcrown Dryad
Land
1x Llanowar Reborn
1x Secluded Steppe
7x Plains
7x Forest
Promising Archetype is BUG Lands...that focuses on untapping karoos and enchanted lands. Karoo shenanigans with Mortuary Mire and Halimar Depths. I misclicked on a card and missed drafting Caustic Tar for this deck which would be obscene.
1x Kiora's Follower
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Voyaging Satyr
1x Civic Wayfinder
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Krosan Restorer
1x Argothian Elder
1x Blizzard Specter
1x Fatestitcher
1x Peregrine Drake
1x Pharika's Mender
1x Mold Shambler
1x Krosan Tusker
1x Executioner's Capsule
1x Jayemdae Tome
Instant
1x Tragic Slip
1x Whispers of the Muse
Enchantment
1x Abundant Growth
1x Wild Growth
1x Fertile Ground
1x Overgrowth
1x Squirrel Nest
1x Leafdrake Roost
Land
1x Barren Moor
1x Golgari Rot Farm
1x Halimar Depths
1x Mortuary Mire
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Urza's Factory
2x Island
2x Swamp
6x Forest
Here's an Orzhov Enchantment Build:
1x Basilica Screecher
1x Kor Skyfisher
1x Seeker of the Way
1x Heliod's Pilgrim
1x Faceless Butcher
1x Lotus-Eye Mystics
1x Totem-Guide Hartebeest
1x Twisted Abomination
1x Blinding Souleater
Artifact
1x Ichor Wellspring
1x Mycosynth Wellspring
1x Jayemdae Tome
Instant
1x Nameless Inversion
1x Dispense Justice
Sorcery
1x Moan of the Unhallowed
1x Unburial Rites
1x Cage of Hands
1x Pillory of the Sleepless
1x Seal of Doom
1x Stab Wound
1x Sphere of Safety
Enchantment Creature
1x Nyx-Fleece Ram
1x Underworld Coinsmith
Land
1x Orzhov Basilica
9x Plains
7x Swamp
You know, I didn't realize it hit artifact creatures until you said it, and that does make it too good for my turn 2 cube. Fortunately, salvagers still has plenty of targets to stick around in my list. Looks like I'll be bringing in seal of doom again to synergize with my auramancer bros
yeah, you're right about the cycling lands....they were only just cut in the last round as i was trying to get near 360.
the system does work better with multiples of chromatic star and friends. that way it's functional mana fixing no matter what your deck is...as there's almost no 1-drops, and all mana fixing is slow. i may give in and break singleton for that alone.
as it stands there's a decent amount of synergy for the eggs with the prowess guys and things like salvagers and skywise teachings...but there's no synergy in green and black, and very little in red.
The decks look akin to themed starter decks. Which is a good thing I think. I haven't had time to look at everything in depth, but my first question is if you're at 1200+ cards with a lot of cards in multiples (some 4+), why don't you cut the entire thing in half? Same odds for most cards, but you don't have to load it into the back of a pickup truck for game nights.
Cube Size: 360
Breakdown: 49 Each Color, 30 Multicolor, 95 Colorless
Format: Peasant - Any card ever coined as uncommon by Wizards is fair game. This includes online releases, U2s, and foreign printings.
Portal: Yes
Un-Cards: No
Average # of Players: 4-8
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/38686
The foundation for this idea was inspired by Grillo_Parlante's Penny Pincher Cube. The basic rationale for Karoos + Eggs is to reduce the amount of non-games due to mana screw, and to provide enough mana sinks to counteract mana flood. I'm less concerned with non-games as I am with using that configuration as a starting point for a slower more limited-like format that maintains archetype integrity. My interpretation is still within Peasant Restrictions
and I have chosen to stick with Singleton for now.I would love to hear any opinions, and discuss sample decklists to address unnecessary redundancies, power inconsistencies, and areas that need support.
raven's crime, rakdos guildmage, and maybe last rites are the most playable discard outlets in black. raven's crime in particular is straight filthy....it wrecks so much over here
I think the primary reason is that "going wide" with white is more valued as an aggressive strategy. The Exalted creatures are lower powered as well. Akrasan Squire, Knight of Infamy, and Knight of Glory are the only ones I'd consider in a standard peasant cube. Spending your combat step to swing with a single guy isn't always the best strategy when there's a lot of good spot removal floating around.
I'm not actually trying to discredit anyone, I think the card is good, but not as strong as the 4 big gnarly dudes we got. It's just surprising. I mean we've had a lot of conversations about wing splicer in the past and blue 4 drops are far weaker than its 3's. Skyspawner is better, but not vastly so. I don't see my blue decks that want to rock 5+ drops running the skyspawner, it's also reminds me of those attended knight conversations we've had. Skyspawner is more on the aggro side of the spectrum compared the the knight given its evasion, but it's a reasonable comparison.
The fact that the token sacs for mana isn't crazy relevant for blue decks. Blue wants more consistent mana.