MTG Salvation

Quote from CommanderZ »

How is this set supposed to be distinct in comparison to the first set? Is it supposed to be just more "tactical combat stuff", perhaps with a bit more of war escalation? That seems like typical middle set (and something the new two-set block scheme is supposed to avoid). Sets that did this weren't particularly successful historically and generally ended up being unmemorable (Mirrodin Besieged, Dark Ascension, Born of the Gods are all examples of this).

This is a great time to have this discussion, actually, given that this is exploratory design and therefore nothing is set in stone at this point...

I'll be honest with you: I don't have a big plan to make it 'distinct'. It is, in many ways, more of the same (although I foresee it being much more cohesive from a limited standpoint given the lessons I've learned up to this point). There are new strategies that will be viable, new mechanics to explore, and lots of new stuff from a story perspective, but no big twist of departure from the first set. I don't know if that's ok or not, but that's why we have the discussion.

The good news is set 3 of the block will differ wildly, so this won't be a problem once we get to that point.

Would love to hear anyone's feedback on what they'd like to see this set do in order to be successful as a second set.

Reserved

Reserved

Reserved

Last Update: March, 2015

Project Status: Exploratory Design (The set skeleton is largely empty. Early thoughts regarding mechanics and archetypes are being formed. Very little, if anything will remain in its current form by the end of design.)




Block Information

While the first set of the block, Generals of Dareth, is still undergoing development, it's time to begin work in earnest on the second set. This set will feature the return of Vanguard and Reverberate from Generals of Dareth, and will feature two new mechanics (ok - one new, and one returning from Tarkir block, which was way too perfect for my needs to avoid, regardless of how new a mechanic it was). The focus on 'tactical creature combat' remains, and I think both of these mechanics add to that.

Storywise, this set will capture the culmination of the Great War of Dareth, which has for years been fought over an artifact - the Infinity Engine. The Infinity Engine is a artifact of unknown origin which resides on Dareth that allows its controller to undo one moment in time. This has led Planeswalker Avienne Rumare, whose home plane of Caeia has been destroyed by the Eldrazi, to Dareth in hopes of finding the Infinity Engine and undoing that event. However, other outside powers have also taken notice and seek the same thing.

New Mechanics

Battlefields of Dareth introduces one new mechanic - retaliate. It also features the return of three mechanics from the first set: Vanguard, Reverberate, and Dominance

Retaliate (If this creature would deal enough damage to creatures it blocks to destroy them, you may have it deal the rest of its damage to defending player or a planeswalker he or she controls.)

Retaliate is a mechanic that I've wanted to use for a very, very long time. Inspiration for the mechanic came from the Star Wars Trading Card Game, though as it evolved it became simply a 'reverse trample'. This should be a very interesting mechanic in this environment, presenting an interesting strategical counterpoint to Vanguard. Speaking of...

Vanguard (Attacking creatures with vanguard must be blocked, if able, before attacking creatures without vanguard can be blocked.)

Originally inspired by user Lord of Atlantis, Vanguard is the flagship mechanic of GEN. It returns again in BFD, albeit in smaller numbers.

509.1x If at least one attacking creature has vanguard as the declare blockers step begins, the only creatures that assign as blockers in that step are those assigned to block attacking creatures with vanguard. After that step, instead of proceeding to the combat damage step, the phase gets a second declare blockers step. The only creatures that assign as blockers in that step are the remaining creatures not assigned to block attacking creatures with vanguard as the first declare blockers step began, and creatures can only block during that step if all attacking creatures with vanguard that could be blocked were blocked during the first declare blockers step. After the second declare blockers step, the phase proceeds to the combat damage step.

Reverberate COST (Whenever you cast a spell with the same converted mana cost as this card, you may cast this card from your graveyard for its reverberate cost. Then exile it.)

Reverberate is an ability that showed up in Generals of Dareth, with the Reverberate cost always being a mana cost. In Battlefields of Dareth, Reverberate costs will be more varied than simply mana costs.

Dominance(Whenever a creature attacks and isn't blocked, [EFFECT])

Dominance returns from GEN, albeit in smaller numbers.

Feedback and Design Help Wanted

I am looking for any and all feedback that can be offered by the MtGS community. Good, bad, indifferent - I want to hear it all. Additionally, given that we are very early in design, I'm interested in hearing any design suggestions from anyone interested in being credited as a contributing designer.

Quote from BaronVonGrixis »

I feel these don't quite fit right into their respective colors.

For Mastery, green has plenty of combat tricks - Pump, Fog, Fight, Protection, Reach, and even just general utility. Black on the other hand mostly gets removal at instant speed, with only occasional pump spells. Battle Mastery stands out to me as a non-black mechanic far more than a non-green mechanic (and the same goes for prowess).

Resurge is a fairly awkward mechanic to evaluate, but again, red has recursion in Phoenixes, cards that grant flashback, and returning artifacts to the battlefield. Unearth could also be said to have been a large stretch for blue, which it got around with activated abilities.

For a mechanic to not be green, it has to care about things green does not care about. Green does care about making creatures stronger, so a pump spell doesn't work. For this I would look into artifact or land-abuse mechanics. For instance, you could go with this:

Arm X (When this creature enters the battlefield, put an Equipment artifact token onto the battlefield attached to this. It has "Equipped creature gets +X/+X." and Equip X.)

Green doesn't care about artifacts, so it wouldn't want to use this, because it prefers more 'natural' means of buffing its creatures.

I've already got a very strong equipment token theme in RW. For a long time, it was keyworded as 'Forge', but I've since moved away from that for several reasons. You're absolutely right that artifacts would be a good way to with a non-green mechanic, it's just not a path I'd be able to go down without extremely reworking the first set.

I should probably clarify that, regarding the excluded color, I'm not necessarily looking for something that color does, but rather looking for something that would be ok leaving out of that color. An example is the Reverberate mechanic from the first set, which was primary in blue and didn't appear at all in white. It could have appeared in white just fine, but for various reasons did not. That said, I think one of the stronger arguments against resurge is that it shares too much space with reverberate.

Quote from DJK3654 »

Battle Mastery just seems like a worse (by design) prowess. Why not just go with prowess?
Why does Resurge have the endstep clause? This mechanic also is plenty red based on flashback.

Yeah I'm leaning towards prowess because I've got space for a returning mechanic and it works.

As far as resurge having the end step clause, it's mostly to err on the safe side and not having any infinite sacrifice engine shenanigans (although I'm not sure that's necessary). Also, I think it certainly could stretch to red in a graveyard set, but I think it's something that would be ok as a non-red mechanic in this set. (Not that I'm sold on the mechanic - it's one way this could go, but I'm not sold on it yet)

I like the card as-is. It's not exciting, but it's solid and playable. It could easily cost 3WB, as others have pointed out, but it certainly doesn't have to - it all depends on if you want it to be playable in constructed (which even at 4cmc might now happen), or relegated to limited only.

Although the first of my current block, Generals of Dareth is still in the early development stages, I'm moving into the exploratory design phase of the second set of the block, Battlefields of Dareth. Currently, I'm brainstorming mechanics (as my original mechanical plans have been scrapped for this set) and I wanted to throw this out for discussion with you fine folks.

My mechanical needs for this set:

• I need two expert level mechanics.
• The first mechanic must appear in all colors except green. It needs to be primary in Red.
• The second mechanic must appear in all colors except red. It must be primary in Black.
• Only one of the mechanics can be a returning mechanic.
• The block has a heavy focus on creature combat, and also a focus on tactics/trickery (lots of combat tricks)

I'm referring to these as 'nephilim' mechanics in reference to the cycle of Nephilim creatures in the original Ravnica block, which were four-color creatures.

Primary in Red, Absent in Green

This is, by far, the easiest of the two. For this mechanic, I'm very tempted just to use prowess. It already fits in Blue, White, and Red and it's not much a stretch to put it in black I think. Out of the five colors, it's hardest to put into green, which also fits the bill.

At the same time, I could go with a variant to drive home the 'combat matters' theme a bit more. Something like:

Battle Mastery (Whenever you cast a spell during combat, this creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.)

Primary in Black, Absent in Red

This one is trickier. During early design of the block, when the mechanical focus was more on dual, enemy colors, I had the following mechanic:

Resurge COST (Whenever a creature dies, you may pay COST. If you do, return this creature from the graveyard to the battlefield tapped.)

Developmental issues aside, this mechanic just does not work in four color. It's definitely primary in black, and works great in green as well, and even in white. It does not, however, work in blue. Blue could do a graveyard mechanic if it targeted non-creature spells, but reanimating creature spells is a bridge too far.

If I wanted to sick with graveyard interaction (something that's nice, but not a necessity), I could go with something like:

Resurge COST (Whenever a creature dies, you may pay COST. If you do, you may exile this card from your graveyard at the beginning of the next end step. You may cast it from exile without paying its mana cost.)

So this is, I think, a fun idea. It works in blue, as it can hit noncreature spells. It's got its problems, of course, and it needs development. My concerns are that this mechanic is too wordy, does too many things, and adds a ton of complexity. However, it's got some pros - plenty of design space, and it looks like it could be fun to play.

I'd love to hear anybody's thoughts, not just on these mechanics but any ideas that might fit the bill!

Quote from Apoquallyp »

Quote from Advent »

0: Exile the top card of your library. Until then end of your next turn, you may play that card.

Chandra, Pyromaster already did that.

Kinda... but not with this new templating courtesy of Tarkir. This would be a more powerful effect.

I love the +2. It's the same effect I've been using with my red planeswalker for set 3 of the Dareth block, and from the (albeit limited) playtesting I've done with it, it's super fun.

I think the other 3 abilities need reworked. I'd say ditch them and instead have:

0: Exile the top card of your library. Until then end of your next turn, you may play that card.

The ultimate needs work too, though I don't have any suggestions just yet...

I don't see why everyone seems so angry. To me, this set is not only a huge flavor win, it also has the highest number of impactful cards to constructed play since NPH. I couldn't be happier.

I wouldn't mind seeing Nimbus Guide as a 2/1 to introduce some tension to any interactions with it. I also feel that Auraweft Enchantress needs some development - might need to cost one more, or be tweaked to be slightly splashier. Actually, I'd like to see this effect on a legendary creature that defines the archetype and makes me want to consider a RW auras commander deck...

Very Borborygmos. I like it.

It's not WB. What I was speaking about above is what I would shift it to if I were to make the mechanics 'guild mechanics' and just have them show up in color pairs. Currently, Dominance is in all colors (although it works best in WB when paired with Vanguard)