I think Cabal Therapy is a great idea. Especially post Ad Nauseam, it just adds storm count. Unmask is also a good option, I haven't tried it, but I'd like to see how much it effects the curve.
Have you considered Zuran Orb? Not only does it add to your storm count, but it can allow you to gain some extra life before casting Ad Nauseam.
Also, personally I really like Goryo's Vengeance in glass canon versions of XHD just as a backup in case both Ad Nauseam and XHD fail, which is possible in more competitive metas.
Zuran Orb definitely has potential. It would probably fit in the Brittle Effigy spot. Brittle Effigy is better when facing hatebears, Zuran Orb would be better when facing any sort of aggro, or if you play any cards that cause additional life loss.
Regarding Goryo's Vengeance, how exactly do you use it? Do you just make a ton of mana first then sac Xiahou Dun, then bring it back with Goryo's and loop Xiahou Dun and Goryo's to add storm count?
Also, I hadn't thought of Bubbling Muck before. It definitely has potential, I just don't like that it's pretty useless post Ad Nauseam. You try to go off so quickly, you are ususally tapped out by the time you're casing Ad Nauseam. But it is a great ritual effect if you can cast it before trying to go off. If I was to play that, I would definitely cut non basics like Wasteland and Strip Mine to up my basic count even more. This deck only really needs black mana. The important non basics are the ones that add more than one mana or cycle to draw you more cards.
I just wanted to address some of your points. This deck is relatively a glass cannon, but not as much as you might think. For instance, if you get Ad Nauseam countered, you have Xiahou Dun to return it from your graveyard. You also are playing Duress, Thoughtseize, Mind Twist, and Defense Grid to protect yourself from counterspells. While that may not seem like much, you do play a lot of tutors as well which you can decide to play a slower game if you need protection before trying to go off. How I see games normally play out is your group tries to establish board position early with mana rocks and whatnot, but that forces them to tap out early, and your deck is so quick they cannot react properly. Or your opponents play conservatively which also means they aren't pressuring you, and you can take your time to set up a win with protection. The main point is that the deck can win so quickly, you often don't need to worry about any counterspell except for Force of Will. That being said, Inquisition of Kozilek is a lot worse in the deck because it doesn't hit Force of Will. Hymn to Tourach is an interesting option, but may not be good enough because it's random and there is a chance you might not hit what you need to. This deck isn't a grindy deck looking to out card advantage your opponent, which is usually where you see Hymn in Legacy decks.
The next thing you need to look at is your life total. This deck revolves around Ad Nauseam. Every life lost before casting it, is at least one card less you get to draw. And sometimes you need every single card possible to be able to win after an Ad Nauseam. I don't think Teeg is a big enough issue to warrant Toxic Deluge. Not only does Deluge cost life to cast, but it's one cmc higher than Black Sun's Zenith which will cost the deck around 5 life lost as opposed to 2. Same thing with Contagion. It's a 5 cmc card which doesn't play well with Ad Nauseam. Contagion also doesn't kill Teeg since its cmc is higher than 4 and a non creature.
The last thing is that you need all of your mana acceleration to net mana. Jet Medallion is a fine card when generating mana over the course of a game, but you need to generate mana after casting Ad Nauseam, because you often need to win the game at that spot. Helm of Awakening, however, has potential. I've seen it used in combo EDH decks before, I'm not sure how well it would work here, but I think it's worth testing at least. I think the biggest issue would be finding something to cut for it. The mana acceleration is pretty good in this deck to begin with, and more isn't necessary at the moment. Helm also has the downside of helping your opponents, like you said.
I really do appreciate the comments though. I think Helm is worth a shot just to see its overall impact. Right now, the biggest issues with the deck are dealing with Rest in Peace/Leyline of the Void. Black has no enchantment removal and we have the tools to fight against activated graveyard removal like Relic of Progenitus.
The Deck
Here is my highly competitive Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed deck. It is heavily influenced by Sean McKeown's list he has posted on Star City Games a few times, but with some tweaks. What I'm looking to do is create the fastest, most consistent deck possible. This deck boils down to being an Ad Nauseam Tendrils deck, like one you might see in Legacy. You play as many rituals and tutors as you can, and the rest is just fluff. Right now, the average win turn is turn 3, with 4 and 5 also being highly likely. Turn 1 and 2 wins are possible with God hands.
How to Win
Your opening hand is extremely important in this deck. You are really looking for either Ad Nauseam, or a way to tutor for it, so mulligan very aggressively. If you don't, you'll often find yourself just drawing lands until you die. Mainly, you want to cast Ad Nauseam as quickly as you can. Once you cast Ad Nauseam, you draw most of your deck. You should stop around when you have 5 life left, as you may need to use Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, or Vampiric Tutor to find missing combo pieces. You are looking for a few key pieces when going off: Tendrils of Agony, Skirge Familiar, Elixir of Immortality, and mana rocks. Any piece you are missing, you'll need to be able to tutor for. So after you draw most of your deck, play all of your mana sources out, and then play Skirge Familiar. Using Skirge Familiar, you can discard around 30 lands to generate that much black mana. If you have Krark-Clan Ironworks, you can also sac all of your used up mana rocks to generate even more mana. Once your storm is high enough, cast Tendrils of Agony. This should be enough to kill one player at the table. Cast your general, Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, and sacrifice him to get back Ad Nauseam. Cast Elixir of Immortality and shuffle all of your lands, Tendrils, and any sacrificed artifacts (from Krark-Clan Ironworks if you have it.) You should have plenty of life again, and just repeat. If you have lots of spare mana and Exsanguinate, you can speed the process up during your first iteration of the combo. Anything past the first, you should be able to generate near infinite mana, while continuing to grow your Tendrils and Exsanguinate.
Problems
Black has a huge issue dealing with enchantments, so cards like Leyline of the Void and Rest in Peace are almost an auto-loss. The only answer to those is Oblivion Stone. Other than that, the deck is pretty resilient to hate. You have discards to interact with counters, and some spot removal to deal with hatebears.
Potential Cuts Black Sun's Zenith-Hatebears pose a potential issue to this deck. This answer's things like Thalia or Aven Mindcensor, but not Gaddock Teeg. When you're winning quickly, sometimes it's hard for your opponent to find their hatebears, and this is pretty useless after an Ad Nauseam.
Yawgmoth's Will-One of the most powerful cards in the game. However, when comboing off in this deck, you often need to reuse your graveyard multiple times so exiling something like Tendrils of Agony, is not exactly what you're looking to do. Mostly, you'll use this to bring back any mana rocks that might get destroyed early, or to use a countered tutor when setting up your combo.
Potential Additions Diabolic Intent-Most often, you lose to not being able to cast Ad Nauseam quickly enough, or if you cannot assemble the rest of your combo post Ad Nauseam. Before casting Ad Nauseam, Diabolic Intent only has value if you have a creature. With only 5 in the deck, that's a pretty slim chance, but post Ad Nauseam, it is essentially Demonic Tutor. I'm already playing Culling the Weak, this isn't too different.
Cruel Tutor-More tutors is always good, this gives you a turn 4 win ususally, so it's not great. After Ad Nauseam, it's not great either though. Probably not going to make the cut.
Beseech the Queen-Great if you're struggling to draw into a win. Does nothing to help you win quick though. I do like this more than Cruel Tutor though.
Overeager Apprentice-A nice way to invest 3 mana one turn, and use it to ramp another.
Conclusion
Power level wise, this is the strongest deck I've ever played in Commander. It goldfishes faster than Hermit Druid or Doomsday. It has a very solid mana base, and is extremely consistent. However, it is not perfect. Graveyard hate is pretty prevalent in the format, and there are two cards that are almost impossible to beat. The longer the games go, the less likely you are to win. This deck does not have a backup win condition as of right now. Anything else would just dilute the deck, create a higher average CMC for the deck, which means you draw less off your Ad Nauseam. I highly discourage playing this deck in a casual meta. It probably performs sub-par in heavy control metas as well. But in a heavy combo meta, this should thrive. Like I said before, this shell was not developed by myself, but Sean McKeown. I am just trying to tweak the deck to be as good as it possibly can be. Any comments and/or suggestions are more than welcome!
Anything in Commander 2014 that you think makes the cut into the deck? I don't think Teferi would be awful, he kind of seems like a hybrid between Jace and Tezzeret, and I don't think I would hate cascading into him.
Entomb: Ran it at some point, and I'm not sure why I took it out. It's a good tutor. With the banning of Sylvan Primordial it isn't nearly as cool to have on turn 1 alongside Reanimate. But it's a solid card. I think I decided that I only needed one graveyard tutor effect, and Buried Alive was the bigger effect.
Jarad's Orders: That's a good combo that I didn't think of. I never tried this card before, and a 4 mana sorcery speed tutor wasn't impressive. I'd like to hear how other people have used it though.
Vindicate: Pretty much. I love the card and run it a lot, but I have a pretty good removal suite so instant speed is really what I was looking for.
Sheoldred: Just took her out, actually. I like her, but expect her to draw a lot of hate. I had a hard time keeping her on the field when I ran her.
Sylvan Library: Really good at refilling your hand, but the life loss adds up if you don't have Kokusho or something else to gain life. I may have used it at some point in the past, but other than deck space I don't have a good reason for removing it. Greater Good does a really good job though.
Pernicious Deed: Never owned one, sadly. I should fix that.
SDT: Lots of shuffling going on in the deck, so it's a really good card. Finding room in the deck is probably the hardest thing.
Living Death: Never took my deck in that direction. With all the sac outlets it should be strong.
Defense of the Heart: Doesn't come back with Sun Titan. I like Tooth and Nail better.
Thanks for the reply! I personally like Jarad's Orders, but it works best with really high impact legends like Iona or Avacyn which you do not play right now, so I can see you continuing to not play it for the time being.
In Legacy, the U for Peak vs Probe does matter, but it doesn't here. The critical turn in Legacy is like 2 or 3 where it's not even close to that in EDH. Peak is an instant and can be played at our last opponent's EOT. And it's not just the slow combo decks that don't play it. There are plenty of examples of fast decks that do play it, and ones that don't. Sneak and Show and Storm are examples of decks that can play it or not. It depends on how reliant on information you want to be as opposed to playing a higher power card. Storm decks that do play them, also team it up with Cabal Therapy which makes it more relevant. It still doesn't address the point that we have to beat multiple players and Probe only sees one hand too. Like I said, it's a very low impact card. You take the information with a grain of salt. If I had a hand that could go off but had zero ways to protect itself, and I only probed one person, but the other 2 players could still stop me, I'd wait until I had more protection.
I think you were missing the point I was trying to make about Mana Drain vs Counterspell. Mana Drain is strictly better than Counterspell in every way; there's no denying that. But the same amount of times you get screwed by mana for Counterspell, you will get screwed by Mana Drain as well. If you can hold up UU for Drain, you can hold up UU for Counterspell. If playing a blue spell during your turn is more important than holding up mana to counter, having Drain vs Counterspell won't make a difference. You also don't just counter any random spell just to get ramped during your turn (unless it wins you the game.) We only have a finite number of counters in our deck so we need to make them count when we do. There are very few scenarios that play out where at the end of it you say, "I would have won that game if my Counterspell would have been a Mana Drain." Which is why I said, they are basically the same in this deck.
There are also a lot of creatures that I wouldn't mind countering nowadays. Kaalia, Godo, Animar, Kiki Jiki and any other general that can combo you our are all things you might want to keep off the table. There are a lot more tuned lists these days than there used to be where other generals can win just as fast as we can. I'm not saying Counterspell is the only way to go, or that it's even the best option available, but it definitely isn't as awful as you're making it out to be. I haven't been screwed by it once yet. The extra U rarely matters, and it's not difficult to fetch appropriately so that you hit multiple blue sources. I like it because it's drawback is it's mana cost instead of something like Arcane Denial which allows your opponent to draw 2 cards. That's a very bad defensive spell.
Mana Drain would be unplayable if it didn't counter the spell. I don't think our deck needs more rituals, which is why we aren't playing Cabal Ritual right now. We have the potential to be very fast, but we only do that in some circumstances. I see us less like a Storm/Belcher deck and more like a Reanimator/Show and Tell deck (in comparison to Legacy decks.) You have the potential to win quickly, but your game plan most of the time is sculpting a proper win. And that's where personal preference comes into play. I'm fine with hindering my mana base a little. I have a lot of experience playing mana hungry decks in competitive formats which is why I choose to play Counterspell and Supreme Verdict over other options at this time. I don't think it's wrong to play other cards over them, and I see why people wouldn't want to play the cards I choose to play, but I don't think it's wrong by any means. Is it greedy to play both Counterspell and Supreme Verdict? Yes, but like I said, I haven't noticed it having any affect on my games yet, so I will continue to play them until it becomes a consistency issue, or obvious better options arise.
Just by these last few posts, I can tell our play styles differ quite a bit. I don't think either of us are wrong, honestly. I tend to play this deck a lot less aggressively than others might. Since we need multiple pieces in play to win, I tend to sculpt more until I can win through a few pieces of hate. Playing slower also might draw out counters if other people try to play a little bit more aggressively. The card choices you are making make me believe you might play more aggressively than I do, trying to win as quickly as possible. When doing that, you don't have time to set up your mana base perfectly, and often have to go off in a less than ideal situation. But it can be very rewarding since others will most likely be less prepared.
My problem with Gitaxian Probe is that it only targets one player. You might target the guy with no counters/removal/hate but the other 2 people can be loaded with them. So really the information you get from it is very limited. I would still be hesitant with other blue/black/white mages at the table even if I saw the coast is clear of one guy. If you use your logic with Probe, you also assume Peak is a good fit for the deck, and I don't see anyone arguing that one at all. The dig for 1 card is negligible. It's very low impact and the test with Scroll Rack was replacing a low impact card with a potential high impact card. I don't necessarily think Scroll Rack is the exact card we're looking for, but I do think Probe is one of the easiest slots to cut. Just look at combo decks in Legacy. Some play Probe sure, but lots forgo it altogether for spells that do more for their deck. The information you gather in Legacy is much more important because you have no other opponents to worry about.
Counterspell is hardly worse than Mana Drain here. Mana Drain's power comes when you are protecting yourself during someone else's turn so you can actually use the mana from it during your turn. Our deck doesn't have a problem holding up UU during our opponent's turns, the problem with the UU is when comboing off, which means Mana Drain has that same problem during our turn that Counterspell does, and we don't get to use the benefit from it either (yes there are corner cases where you can use Mana Drain's mana during your second main phase, but those are infrequent.) The reason I like Counterspell is because it is not conditional. I prefer to use it as a reactive spell, slowing my opponents down or stopping something like a Rest in Peace from resolving, not so much as my main combo protection. If you need protection for your combo turn, I agree Negate, Arcane Denial, Remand, and Memory Lapse are all much better, but I do think a little bit of diversity in our counters is something to consider.
I do like the idea of Unexpectedly Absent over Dispeller's Capsule as I also found the Capsule slow and unwanted a lot of times.
In my list I cut Gitaxian Probe for Scroll Rack. Scroll Rack has been alright, not great, but I felt that there's a good chance you get to fetch away one bad card and there's potential for multiple uses out of it so it should be better overall. I am thinking of trying out Entomb in that slot now. I have also cut Praetor's Grasp and Sleight of hand for Imperial Seal and Grim Tutor now that I have finally gotten them in paper I agree that cutting the cantrips is bad, but I felt like those ones were the worst for me and that the tutors are just better.
I think Deluge is most likely better than Damnation, but I don't know if I like it more than Supreme Verdict. I haven't had a time where the mana cost has inhibited me from casting it yet, and Toxic Deluge is a non-bo with Ad Nauseam and Necrologia.
Swords is better than Unexpectantly Absent for the reasons trancekat noted.
I also want to test Swan Song. It seems good, probably better than the Counterspell I'm playing right now at the least.
Upcoming, Mana Confluence should probably make it into the deck. It's a better City of Brass but can tap for black with Urborg out without having to pay life. I'm not sure what land to cut though. I already cut Buried Ruin for Mishra's Workshop. I'm really OCD about having symmetry in my lands so if I cut a painland, I'll most likely cut all of them.
Other than that, it's good to see both of you back here posting again. Hopefully we can work on tweaking the deck to be even better than it is already.
I played Big Zoo at GP Richmond going 6-2-1 with no byes. Against every known/top tier deck, I felt unbeatable. My loses and draw were to rogue decks in which I ususally misplayed during game 2. Also during the match that I drew, I misplayed in game 2 in which I would have won if I didn't. If I avoid that misplay, I win the round and better yet, don't go into the draw bracket in which I lost my next match which ended my chances at day 2. I played pretty much Kibler's main with a tweaked version of Owen's sideboard. Here's how my rounds went
Round 1: UWR Control 2-0
Round 2: Tribal Zoo 2-0
Round 3: BW Tokens 2-0
Round 4: Jund 2-1
Round 5: Chris Van Meter UR Pyromancer 1-2
Round 6: Mono U Delver (not Ninja Bear Delver) 1-1-1
Round 7: UB Tezzeret 0-2
Round 8: Opponent no show 2-0
Round 9: UR Tempo Twin 2-0
My main difference between Kibler's and Owen's list is that my curve stops at 3. I didn't play Thundermaw or Chandra, and instead played Domri and more Smiters. I cut Choke from my sideboard the night before the tournament because I thought that was overkill against UWR which I thought would be a bigger presence than it actually was. In hindsight, Choke would have won me the 3 matches I didn't win, so I have put it back in for now. Also, I plan on cutting some Twin hate because I feel most people are playing the slower non-combo oriented Twin decks more than the all in combo version and we need less specific hate against Twin when our burn spells do most of the work for us. Overall, I was very happy about my deck choice and would definitely play it again if given the chance.
What do you guys think about kikipod in the current metagame? It saw really less play at the pro tour and im in a torn wether to concentrate on this or faeries for the future. I really want to stick to one deck a greater period of time.
Opinions?
Honestly, I don't think Kiki Pod is well positioned in the current meta. That doesn't mean you can't have success with it, or you can't win events with the deck. But just from looking at the top Pro Tour decks, we don't have a great matchup against anything except Melira Pod. Affinity, Zoo, Living End, Bogle, Storm, and Twin are all relatively hard matchups and the control decks are about 50:50. It's also very hard to win with more and more decks playing Anger of the Gods and Blood Moon. I was planning on playing Kiki Pod at GP Richmond, but I just think it's a bit too fragile for a large event like that, right now at least.
+1. I totally love Kiki Pod, but between Nacatls, Blood Moons and Anger of the Gods I think we might often find ourselves stuck between a rock and a hard place.
@ Muten Yoshi: honestly, Faeries don't seem to be in a much better place at the moment. I'm personally considering to switch either to Melira Pod or to Tempo Twin (or Tarmo Twin... Dickmann's list is so sweet!). Both decks have the ability to beat down while threatening an infinite combo, just like Kiki Pod does, but have better disruption and a much less greedier manabase. The idea of abandoning this deck is painful, though. It's so much fun to play
especially painful since i deconstructed UWR and traded away pieces to build my Legacy deck. i compromised on winning less to have more fun, because Kiki Pod really is the most fun deck to play in modern. that being said, i do want to be successful. so rather than abandoning the list, how can we effect changes to make it positioned to take advantage of the meta?
First thing you need to do is become very proficient with the deck. I have a lifetime positive win percentage against Twin, Tron, and Affinity which are some of the harder matchups for the deck. But I also realize that there's very little we can do to win against their nut draws (which are far more common than our nut draws since we have so many one ofs.) That's the easiest way to stay ahead of the meta. Then after that you just take everything one step at a time.
To beat Anger of the Gods, you will probably have to dedicate more of your deck to X/4s like Loxodon Smiter or Knight of the Reliquary at the 3 drop slot. Beating Anger of the Gods also in turn helps against Zoo. Wall of Roots becomes important at the 2 drop slot (I think I was the only person to really play Caryatid anyway.)
For Blood Moon, you may want to add a basic Island to the deck in one of the flex land slots. Be familiar with what decks might be bringing in Blood Moon against you and make sure to fetch out basics early, even if it hinders your gameplan a bit. Most decks with Blood Moon tend to be more controlling and slower, so advancing your board slowly is perfectly fine. Also don't over extend your mana creatures. They will be necessary since we have so few basics. Also decks with Blood Moon will more than likely play some amount of Anger of the Gods or another sweeper. Against the Blue Moon deck, it may be safe to get Qasali Pridemage early for their Spreading Sea or Vedalken Shackles/Threads of Disloyalty.
Other than that, we can't do much to prepare for every deck, which is why I don't think Kiki Pod is the best choice right now. To fight Zoo, more Voices and Finks are good, but they are bad against Anger of the Gods. Affinity hate is very narrow as well as Twin hate. If you have a meta that is dominated by one specific archtype or deck, it's easy to tool your deck to be able to beat the field, but at a large event like a Grand Prix, it is very hard to pinpoint the exact meta and picking up 3 losses can be very easy. Melira Pod has a more stable mana base, has discard and Abrupt Decay to beat combo decks, and has a combo of its own to threaten decks that won't interact with it. Splinter Twin is simply more a powerful and consistent of a combo deck. Zoo is a much faster aggro and midrange deck. UWR Control is now packing an answer to what used to be our best threats against them. The format has polarized much more than it used to. Kiki Pod sits pretty much in the middle of everything. If you want to be playing Birthing Pod, Melira is most likely the correct answer as of right now.
edit: It also really hurts that Kiki Pod went from having very few "unwinnable" matchups, to now having many. Burn was awful and Twin was probably the second worst matchup for the deck. Now we have Twin, Storm, Bogle, Living End all coming in with much larger number than ever before. I would also expect to see Infect see some sort of resurgence. With so many awful matchups and just as many 50:50 matchups, it would just be very hard to day 2 a GP.
What do you guys think about kikipod in the current metagame? It saw really less play at the pro tour and im in a torn wether to concentrate on this or faeries for the future. I really want to stick to one deck a greater period of time.
Opinions?
Honestly, I don't think Kiki Pod is well positioned in the current meta. That doesn't mean you can't have success with it, or you can't win events with the deck. But just from looking at the top Pro Tour decks, we don't have a great matchup against anything except Melira Pod. Affinity, Zoo, Living End, Bogle, Storm, and Twin are all relatively hard matchups and the control decks are about 50:50. It's also very hard to win with more and more decks playing Anger of the Gods and Blood Moon. I was planning on playing Kiki Pod at GP Richmond, but I just think it's a bit too fragile for a large event like that, right now at least.
Tooth and Nail. It was the first real deck I ever build and played.And I love the fact that it's still an incredibly powerful card in casual formats like EDH/Commander.
Thanks!
Zuran Orb definitely has potential. It would probably fit in the Brittle Effigy spot. Brittle Effigy is better when facing hatebears, Zuran Orb would be better when facing any sort of aggro, or if you play any cards that cause additional life loss.
Regarding Goryo's Vengeance, how exactly do you use it? Do you just make a ton of mana first then sac Xiahou Dun, then bring it back with Goryo's and loop Xiahou Dun and Goryo's to add storm count?
Also, I hadn't thought of Bubbling Muck before. It definitely has potential, I just don't like that it's pretty useless post Ad Nauseam. You try to go off so quickly, you are ususally tapped out by the time you're casing Ad Nauseam. But it is a great ritual effect if you can cast it before trying to go off. If I was to play that, I would definitely cut non basics like Wasteland and Strip Mine to up my basic count even more. This deck only really needs black mana. The important non basics are the ones that add more than one mana or cycle to draw you more cards.
I just wanted to address some of your points. This deck is relatively a glass cannon, but not as much as you might think. For instance, if you get Ad Nauseam countered, you have Xiahou Dun to return it from your graveyard. You also are playing Duress, Thoughtseize, Mind Twist, and Defense Grid to protect yourself from counterspells. While that may not seem like much, you do play a lot of tutors as well which you can decide to play a slower game if you need protection before trying to go off. How I see games normally play out is your group tries to establish board position early with mana rocks and whatnot, but that forces them to tap out early, and your deck is so quick they cannot react properly. Or your opponents play conservatively which also means they aren't pressuring you, and you can take your time to set up a win with protection. The main point is that the deck can win so quickly, you often don't need to worry about any counterspell except for Force of Will. That being said, Inquisition of Kozilek is a lot worse in the deck because it doesn't hit Force of Will. Hymn to Tourach is an interesting option, but may not be good enough because it's random and there is a chance you might not hit what you need to. This deck isn't a grindy deck looking to out card advantage your opponent, which is usually where you see Hymn in Legacy decks.
The next thing you need to look at is your life total. This deck revolves around Ad Nauseam. Every life lost before casting it, is at least one card less you get to draw. And sometimes you need every single card possible to be able to win after an Ad Nauseam. I don't think Teeg is a big enough issue to warrant Toxic Deluge. Not only does Deluge cost life to cast, but it's one cmc higher than Black Sun's Zenith which will cost the deck around 5 life lost as opposed to 2. Same thing with Contagion. It's a 5 cmc card which doesn't play well with Ad Nauseam. Contagion also doesn't kill Teeg since its cmc is higher than 4 and a non creature.
The last thing is that you need all of your mana acceleration to net mana. Jet Medallion is a fine card when generating mana over the course of a game, but you need to generate mana after casting Ad Nauseam, because you often need to win the game at that spot. Helm of Awakening, however, has potential. I've seen it used in combo EDH decks before, I'm not sure how well it would work here, but I think it's worth testing at least. I think the biggest issue would be finding something to cut for it. The mana acceleration is pretty good in this deck to begin with, and more isn't necessary at the moment. Helm also has the downside of helping your opponents, like you said.
I really do appreciate the comments though. I think Helm is worth a shot just to see its overall impact. Right now, the biggest issues with the deck are dealing with Rest in Peace/Leyline of the Void. Black has no enchantment removal and we have the tools to fight against activated graveyard removal like Relic of Progenitus.
Here is my highly competitive Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed deck. It is heavily influenced by Sean McKeown's list he has posted on Star City Games a few times, but with some tweaks. What I'm looking to do is create the fastest, most consistent deck possible. This deck boils down to being an Ad Nauseam Tendrils deck, like one you might see in Legacy. You play as many rituals and tutors as you can, and the rest is just fluff. Right now, the average win turn is turn 3, with 4 and 5 also being highly likely. Turn 1 and 2 wins are possible with God hands.
The List
1x Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
Land (51)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Barren Moor
1x Blasted Landscape
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Cavern of Souls
1x City of Traitors
1x Crystal Vein
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Deserted Temple
1x Dust Bowl
1x Ebon Stronghold
1x Lake of the Dead
1x Marsh Flats
1x Peat Bog
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Polluted Delta
1x Polluted Mire
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Scrying Sheets
22x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Strip Mine
1x Thawing Glaciers
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of Whispers
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Vesuva
1x Wasteland
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Cabal Ritual
1x Culling the Weak
1x Dark Ritual
1x Rain of Filth
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Vampiric Tutor
Artifact (24)
1x Brittle Effigy
1x Chrome Mox
1x Defense Grid
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Expedition Map
1x Grim Monolith
1x Krark-Clan Ironworks
1x Lion's Eye Diamond
1x Lodestone Bauble
1x Lotus Bloom
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Mishra's Bauble
1x Mox Diamond
1x Mox Opal
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Pithing Needle
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Urza's Bauble
1x Black Sun's Zenith
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Diabolic Tutor
1x Duress
1x Exsanguinate
1x Grim Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Infernal Tutor
1x Mind Twist
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Thoughtseize
1x Yawgmoth's Will
Creature (5)
1x Memnite
1x Ornithopter
1x Phyrexian Walker
1x Shield Sphere
1x Skirge Familiar
How to Win
Your opening hand is extremely important in this deck. You are really looking for either Ad Nauseam, or a way to tutor for it, so mulligan very aggressively. If you don't, you'll often find yourself just drawing lands until you die. Mainly, you want to cast Ad Nauseam as quickly as you can. Once you cast Ad Nauseam, you draw most of your deck. You should stop around when you have 5 life left, as you may need to use Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, or Vampiric Tutor to find missing combo pieces. You are looking for a few key pieces when going off: Tendrils of Agony, Skirge Familiar, Elixir of Immortality, and mana rocks. Any piece you are missing, you'll need to be able to tutor for. So after you draw most of your deck, play all of your mana sources out, and then play Skirge Familiar. Using Skirge Familiar, you can discard around 30 lands to generate that much black mana. If you have Krark-Clan Ironworks, you can also sac all of your used up mana rocks to generate even more mana. Once your storm is high enough, cast Tendrils of Agony. This should be enough to kill one player at the table. Cast your general, Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, and sacrifice him to get back Ad Nauseam. Cast Elixir of Immortality and shuffle all of your lands, Tendrils, and any sacrificed artifacts (from Krark-Clan Ironworks if you have it.) You should have plenty of life again, and just repeat. If you have lots of spare mana and Exsanguinate, you can speed the process up during your first iteration of the combo. Anything past the first, you should be able to generate near infinite mana, while continuing to grow your Tendrils and Exsanguinate.
Problems
Black has a huge issue dealing with enchantments, so cards like Leyline of the Void and Rest in Peace are almost an auto-loss. The only answer to those is Oblivion Stone. Other than that, the deck is pretty resilient to hate. You have discards to interact with counters, and some spot removal to deal with hatebears.
Potential Cuts
Black Sun's Zenith-Hatebears pose a potential issue to this deck. This answer's things like Thalia or Aven Mindcensor, but not Gaddock Teeg. When you're winning quickly, sometimes it's hard for your opponent to find their hatebears, and this is pretty useless after an Ad Nauseam.
Brittle Effigy-Same as above, but this is at least and artifact, so it nets one mana with Krark-Clan Ironworks.
Yawgmoth's Will-One of the most powerful cards in the game. However, when comboing off in this deck, you often need to reuse your graveyard multiple times so exiling something like Tendrils of Agony, is not exactly what you're looking to do. Mostly, you'll use this to bring back any mana rocks that might get destroyed early, or to use a countered tutor when setting up your combo.
Potential Additions
Diabolic Intent-Most often, you lose to not being able to cast Ad Nauseam quickly enough, or if you cannot assemble the rest of your combo post Ad Nauseam. Before casting Ad Nauseam, Diabolic Intent only has value if you have a creature. With only 5 in the deck, that's a pretty slim chance, but post Ad Nauseam, it is essentially Demonic Tutor. I'm already playing Culling the Weak, this isn't too different.
Cruel Tutor-More tutors is always good, this gives you a turn 4 win ususally, so it's not great. After Ad Nauseam, it's not great either though. Probably not going to make the cut.
Beseech the Queen-Great if you're struggling to draw into a win. Does nothing to help you win quick though. I do like this more than Cruel Tutor though.
Overeager Apprentice-A nice way to invest 3 mana one turn, and use it to ramp another.
Blood Pet-Same as above, but a much smaller investment and a smaller payout. Adds another creature for Culling the Weak, and potentially Diabolic Intent.
Conclusion
Power level wise, this is the strongest deck I've ever played in Commander. It goldfishes faster than Hermit Druid or Doomsday. It has a very solid mana base, and is extremely consistent. However, it is not perfect. Graveyard hate is pretty prevalent in the format, and there are two cards that are almost impossible to beat. The longer the games go, the less likely you are to win. This deck does not have a backup win condition as of right now. Anything else would just dilute the deck, create a higher average CMC for the deck, which means you draw less off your Ad Nauseam. I highly discourage playing this deck in a casual meta. It probably performs sub-par in heavy control metas as well. But in a heavy combo meta, this should thrive. Like I said before, this shell was not developed by myself, but Sean McKeown. I am just trying to tweak the deck to be as good as it possibly can be. Any comments and/or suggestions are more than welcome!
Thanks for the reply! I personally like Jarad's Orders, but it works best with really high impact legends like Iona or Avacyn which you do not play right now, so I can see you continuing to not play it for the time being.
With all your sac outlets you play, have you ever considered things like Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos, or Butcher of Malakir?
Entomb
Jarad's Orders-Get Loyal Retainers and any other legendary
Vindicate-Sorcery speed too slow?
Sheoldred, Whispering One
Sylvan Library
Pernicious Deed-I like this with the recursion of Sun Titan
Sensei's Divining Top-Too slow?
Living Death-Acts as a board sweep and GY recursion if you're behind
Defense of the Heart
I think you were missing the point I was trying to make about Mana Drain vs Counterspell. Mana Drain is strictly better than Counterspell in every way; there's no denying that. But the same amount of times you get screwed by mana for Counterspell, you will get screwed by Mana Drain as well. If you can hold up UU for Drain, you can hold up UU for Counterspell. If playing a blue spell during your turn is more important than holding up mana to counter, having Drain vs Counterspell won't make a difference. You also don't just counter any random spell just to get ramped during your turn (unless it wins you the game.) We only have a finite number of counters in our deck so we need to make them count when we do. There are very few scenarios that play out where at the end of it you say, "I would have won that game if my Counterspell would have been a Mana Drain." Which is why I said, they are basically the same in this deck.
There are also a lot of creatures that I wouldn't mind countering nowadays. Kaalia, Godo, Animar, Kiki Jiki and any other general that can combo you our are all things you might want to keep off the table. There are a lot more tuned lists these days than there used to be where other generals can win just as fast as we can. I'm not saying Counterspell is the only way to go, or that it's even the best option available, but it definitely isn't as awful as you're making it out to be. I haven't been screwed by it once yet. The extra U rarely matters, and it's not difficult to fetch appropriately so that you hit multiple blue sources. I like it because it's drawback is it's mana cost instead of something like Arcane Denial which allows your opponent to draw 2 cards. That's a very bad defensive spell.
Mana Drain would be unplayable if it didn't counter the spell. I don't think our deck needs more rituals, which is why we aren't playing Cabal Ritual right now. We have the potential to be very fast, but we only do that in some circumstances. I see us less like a Storm/Belcher deck and more like a Reanimator/Show and Tell deck (in comparison to Legacy decks.) You have the potential to win quickly, but your game plan most of the time is sculpting a proper win. And that's where personal preference comes into play. I'm fine with hindering my mana base a little. I have a lot of experience playing mana hungry decks in competitive formats which is why I choose to play Counterspell and Supreme Verdict over other options at this time. I don't think it's wrong to play other cards over them, and I see why people wouldn't want to play the cards I choose to play, but I don't think it's wrong by any means. Is it greedy to play both Counterspell and Supreme Verdict? Yes, but like I said, I haven't noticed it having any affect on my games yet, so I will continue to play them until it becomes a consistency issue, or obvious better options arise.
Just by these last few posts, I can tell our play styles differ quite a bit. I don't think either of us are wrong, honestly. I tend to play this deck a lot less aggressively than others might. Since we need multiple pieces in play to win, I tend to sculpt more until I can win through a few pieces of hate. Playing slower also might draw out counters if other people try to play a little bit more aggressively. The card choices you are making make me believe you might play more aggressively than I do, trying to win as quickly as possible. When doing that, you don't have time to set up your mana base perfectly, and often have to go off in a less than ideal situation. But it can be very rewarding since others will most likely be less prepared.
Counterspell is hardly worse than Mana Drain here. Mana Drain's power comes when you are protecting yourself during someone else's turn so you can actually use the mana from it during your turn. Our deck doesn't have a problem holding up UU during our opponent's turns, the problem with the UU is when comboing off, which means Mana Drain has that same problem during our turn that Counterspell does, and we don't get to use the benefit from it either (yes there are corner cases where you can use Mana Drain's mana during your second main phase, but those are infrequent.) The reason I like Counterspell is because it is not conditional. I prefer to use it as a reactive spell, slowing my opponents down or stopping something like a Rest in Peace from resolving, not so much as my main combo protection. If you need protection for your combo turn, I agree Negate, Arcane Denial, Remand, and Memory Lapse are all much better, but I do think a little bit of diversity in our counters is something to consider.
I do like the idea of Unexpectedly Absent over Dispeller's Capsule as I also found the Capsule slow and unwanted a lot of times.
I think Deluge is most likely better than Damnation, but I don't know if I like it more than Supreme Verdict. I haven't had a time where the mana cost has inhibited me from casting it yet, and Toxic Deluge is a non-bo with Ad Nauseam and Necrologia.
Swords is better than Unexpectantly Absent for the reasons trancekat noted.
I also want to test Swan Song. It seems good, probably better than the Counterspell I'm playing right now at the least.
Upcoming, Mana Confluence should probably make it into the deck. It's a better City of Brass but can tap for black with Urborg out without having to pay life. I'm not sure what land to cut though. I already cut Buried Ruin for Mishra's Workshop. I'm really OCD about having symmetry in my lands so if I cut a painland, I'll most likely cut all of them.
Other than that, it's good to see both of you back here posting again. Hopefully we can work on tweaking the deck to be even better than it is already.
Round 1: UWR Control 2-0
Round 2: Tribal Zoo 2-0
Round 3: BW Tokens 2-0
Round 4: Jund 2-1
Round 5: Chris Van Meter UR Pyromancer 1-2
Round 6: Mono U Delver (not Ninja Bear Delver) 1-1-1
Round 7: UB Tezzeret 0-2
Round 8: Opponent no show 2-0
Round 9: UR Tempo Twin 2-0
My main difference between Kibler's and Owen's list is that my curve stops at 3. I didn't play Thundermaw or Chandra, and instead played Domri and more Smiters. I cut Choke from my sideboard the night before the tournament because I thought that was overkill against UWR which I thought would be a bigger presence than it actually was. In hindsight, Choke would have won me the 3 matches I didn't win, so I have put it back in for now. Also, I plan on cutting some Twin hate because I feel most people are playing the slower non-combo oriented Twin decks more than the all in combo version and we need less specific hate against Twin when our burn spells do most of the work for us. Overall, I was very happy about my deck choice and would definitely play it again if given the chance.
First thing you need to do is become very proficient with the deck. I have a lifetime positive win percentage against Twin, Tron, and Affinity which are some of the harder matchups for the deck. But I also realize that there's very little we can do to win against their nut draws (which are far more common than our nut draws since we have so many one ofs.) That's the easiest way to stay ahead of the meta. Then after that you just take everything one step at a time.
To beat Anger of the Gods, you will probably have to dedicate more of your deck to X/4s like Loxodon Smiter or Knight of the Reliquary at the 3 drop slot. Beating Anger of the Gods also in turn helps against Zoo. Wall of Roots becomes important at the 2 drop slot (I think I was the only person to really play Caryatid anyway.)
For Blood Moon, you may want to add a basic Island to the deck in one of the flex land slots. Be familiar with what decks might be bringing in Blood Moon against you and make sure to fetch out basics early, even if it hinders your gameplan a bit. Most decks with Blood Moon tend to be more controlling and slower, so advancing your board slowly is perfectly fine. Also don't over extend your mana creatures. They will be necessary since we have so few basics. Also decks with Blood Moon will more than likely play some amount of Anger of the Gods or another sweeper. Against the Blue Moon deck, it may be safe to get Qasali Pridemage early for their Spreading Sea or Vedalken Shackles/Threads of Disloyalty.
Other than that, we can't do much to prepare for every deck, which is why I don't think Kiki Pod is the best choice right now. To fight Zoo, more Voices and Finks are good, but they are bad against Anger of the Gods. Affinity hate is very narrow as well as Twin hate. If you have a meta that is dominated by one specific archtype or deck, it's easy to tool your deck to be able to beat the field, but at a large event like a Grand Prix, it is very hard to pinpoint the exact meta and picking up 3 losses can be very easy. Melira Pod has a more stable mana base, has discard and Abrupt Decay to beat combo decks, and has a combo of its own to threaten decks that won't interact with it. Splinter Twin is simply more a powerful and consistent of a combo deck. Zoo is a much faster aggro and midrange deck. UWR Control is now packing an answer to what used to be our best threats against them. The format has polarized much more than it used to. Kiki Pod sits pretty much in the middle of everything. If you want to be playing Birthing Pod, Melira is most likely the correct answer as of right now.
edit: It also really hurts that Kiki Pod went from having very few "unwinnable" matchups, to now having many. Burn was awful and Twin was probably the second worst matchup for the deck. Now we have Twin, Storm, Bogle, Living End all coming in with much larger number than ever before. I would also expect to see Infect see some sort of resurgence. With so many awful matchups and just as many 50:50 matchups, it would just be very hard to day 2 a GP.
Honestly, I don't think Kiki Pod is well positioned in the current meta. That doesn't mean you can't have success with it, or you can't win events with the deck. But just from looking at the top Pro Tour decks, we don't have a great matchup against anything except Melira Pod. Affinity, Zoo, Living End, Bogle, Storm, and Twin are all relatively hard matchups and the control decks are about 50:50. It's also very hard to win with more and more decks playing Anger of the Gods and Blood Moon. I was planning on playing Kiki Pod at GP Richmond, but I just think it's a bit too fragile for a large event like that, right now at least.