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  • posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer]
    In absence of Lantern:


    Zoo on video., although it's domain zoo and the lack of Geist seems strange. Become Immense seems interesting although without trample it strikes me as spinning wheels against decks more willing to interact than Jeskai
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer]
    Quote from Papdaddy_44 »
    I went 3-0 at my local tourney and won it. However I didn't have my Knight of the Reliquary and was forced to play 2 copies of Flinthoof Boar instead, creating drama with what I should be having. The boar did some work tonight! What would you guys think would be best for the deck 2 Flinthoof Boar and one Knight of the Reliquary or should I just go 3 Knight of the Reliquary and no Flinthoof Boar. The Boar has option for haste and allows for adding pressure as soon as it comes into play.

    It depends what the rest of your deck is doing. If you're really aggressive at putting opponents on the backfoot and down to low life then you may want boar for the haste.

    If you take a more little midrange approach to things and want a threat that can keep up with the game, or want to make use of lands like steppes then you'd be better served with Knight
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer]
    I also had a question in general regarding Aggro mirror matches and what, if anything, should be sided verses those types of matches? I've been running two Weapon Surge in my board to give my creature the edge in a mirror, but I don't notice any cards dedicated in other Sideboards to this situation.

    In the strict zoo mirror there's very little evasion. The attrition nature means it's about surviving the removal available so you want to bring in anything bigger than bolt and take out anything that can't defend as well as attack (Lynx, traditionally Kird Ape esque cards get trimmed as well if needed since they just match up poorly vs Nacatl). For Lantern's most recent list you'd bring path, vines and thruns. You'd cut 4 lynx and a kird ape. Pridemage can seem like a tempting cut, but he allows attacks such as Goyf on Goyf and is a hedge vs anyone trying to attack from a different angle.

    Ranger of Eos usually sees some mirror play since he's going to net a 3 for 1 quite often. More if you fetch Lavamancers at the right time. The best mirror card I've found so far though for modern is Sword of Light and Shadow. Your creature becomes immune to Path (the only efficient way to remove big guys) and you out card your opponent by connecting with it (bloodrushing Rampager to connect and then using sword to pick back up said rampager is known as living the dream)
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer]
    Lantern - game 3 vs WB tokens in your most recent video part 1.

    When he goes for Disfigure on Steppe Lynx "in response to first landfall trigger" you should be keeping the Lynx alive by stacking triggers correctly. The fetchland is already in play once the Lynx trigger goes on stack. He casts Disfigure, you then crack your Windswept Heath in response, fetch your land and stack another landfall trigger. Lynx is a 2/3, gets disfigured to a 0/1, then landfall trigger numero uno resolves and you kitty cat him for 2. Followed by the Tarmogoyf as planned.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer]
    Only watched the first match earlier before I went to work (CFB updates about 5am in the UK). Not a fan of the list for the reasons already covered by Lantern.

    Additionally I'd say Steppe Lynx is already a sketchy choice if Wilson thinks it needs heavier land count to support, since we're open to flooding but not drawing a Lynx. At least something like Experiment One encourages us to run more creatures (something we're already in the market for), or something like Monastery Swiftspear works in a Delver shell because we already want spells en masse.

    Plus the 'not drawing Lynx' scenario extends to Lynx getting killed. Ok, our creatures die to removal, but how much we want to go down a path that makes the rest of our deck worse (read land heavy with no manipulation) if there's a chance people adjust to Jeskai storm by running more early removal for dorks?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Judge foil Force of Will
    Quote from Monopoman
    Magic is not a classic bubble, most of the people paying these prices play the game, this is nothing like the tulip bubble that was going on a few hundred years ago. Until we hit the day when we get 10-20k speculators or more that could care less about the game and decide to just speculate endlessly, we won't be in a bubble.

    Cards like these are not proving that the game is a bubble at all, someone really wants a foil force most likely to play with it. I don't think many speculators are in on 1000 bucks a copy when you can likely take that 1000 bucks and turn it into a lot more cards that will grow in value at a faster and more noticeable rate.

    If these remain super rare though I can see the 1000+ dollar price tag holding quite well and perhaps a slow gain upwards.

    The fact remains demand is following these trends, record attendance at tournaments is why we are seeing cards like Scalding Tarn nearly tripling in price over a 1 year period.

    There's a difference though between Scalding Tarn - a card where the cheapest possible version has risen to the levels it has and a limited print run version of an existing card (albeit an expensive one)

    I mean sure, I know there's a market for premium and pimp but there is a difference between requiring a $100 card to complete a deck and wanting a $1000 one to make it prettier but add no functional value.

    YMMV but we're talking a playset that equates to 9 months of mortgage payments for me and even as an unmarried 20 something year old with no children and a well paid job/career that's just not really feasible to write off as an alternative to the set version.
    Posted in: Market Street Café
  • posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer] (5/13/2013-7/25/14)
    Quote from spec.ops
    Hey guys I have been wondering something. Would Signal Pest be a worthy include? It cost 1 colorless. It has evasion and boosts our creatures ATK by one. It sounds small, but all our 2/3s hit for 3 now. In the mirror match that can be big plus to include the evasion. And, with GCR and other pumps he can be a threat too.

    The appeal to Zoo is that you're playing cards that are strong in their own right. If you're utilising Rampager, he's usually a bit more of a precise tool in terms of engineering situations where you can use him without blowout (e.g. using Exalted triggers to bait a bolt within combat) or too much of a valuable tool (generally we struggle against x/4+ blockers) to just spend on picking up the slack for another card which is high variance.

    The way I usually like to play Zoo, RDW etc is like they're the smallest midrange in town. Similar card evaluation rules apply.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Event Discussion -] SCG Open: St. Louis
    Quote from Galerion
    Well like I said in another thread. The reason GR took off is because Mono-Blue fall out of favor and Mono-Black players are still stuck in the pre-BNG meta with all their Bile Blight, Devour Flesh, even Drown in Sorrow etc. which are all just terrible against GR Monsters.
    I twittered to Cedric Philips and Patrick Sullivan also said it on the camera, Mono-Black has all the tools to beat that matchup. They just have to finally switch up their removal suite and play Doom Blade and/or Ultimate Price maindeck again like they did in the beginning and things will start to change again.
    Until that happens and/or Mono-Blue picks up again it is certainly a good time to play GR Monsters but the hate is there. It is just a question of how long it will take to catch on.

    This. You only have to look at the highest placed black list, 11th. 1 Doom Blade Sideboard. 3 Lifebane is also relevant if we're being generous, but how enthusiastic do you feel looking at your 3 Bile Blight and 3 Devour Flesh when you have 4 cards to bring in? Well, at least no mana dorks are surviving.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [[Official]] The Great Modern Metagame Discussion Thread (9/2013 - 7/2014)
    Quote from gibbousm
    Protour Valencia is going to be a huge determinant in the meta as many people are simply going to play follow the leader.

    This. Not least because your average Magic player is historically lazy, but because outside of people already having a broad card pool it's a big risk paying in at current Bitterblossom price without an idea whether the deck is worth the entry fee etc.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on Why Standard is more fun than Modern (at our LGS)

    Player gives an opinion which is unfalsifiable (s/he prefers format A to format B) and reasons based on anecdotal evidence.

    Not sure what it achieves, but I prefer modern. It's a higher skill format because it offers more chances to be rewarded for format knowledge (bigger format, more to know) and decision making (more decisions in a game).

    I also even like that if I play modern at FNM it's a smaller group of the better players in my LGS...means more competitive games than getting a 5 rounder but having to run through newer players first.

    Plus I can find monthly tournaments for modern that regularly pull 20-30 players.

    I do think the price of entry to modern is a bit on the high side, but I do like having some kind of barrier...you tend to run into a better quality of player as a result because they've invested into getting into the format. YMMV though.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Pro Tour Valencia Prediction
    Quote from MemoryLapse
    With these nested quotes Im not really sure who is saying what, but UB Fae gets facerolled by Zoo. They can dedicate as many slots to beating aggro as they want. Zoo still facerolls UB Fae. The question is, how much Zoo will there be? The answer to that question will answer whether or not UB Fae is viable. What decks currently check Zoo?

    Pod, G/W Hatebears, Living End.

    Quote from Darkbrew
    Yea i was thinking myself that Anger of the Gods may be the breakout modern card this tourney. It wrecks Zoo AND pod pretty hard.

    We already had access to Firespout, which is easier for such as Tron to cast if required. Some decks such as tempo twin prefer Anger, but if it's Tron that succeeds I'd expect not since pod is already a good matchup and Anger is only really about as successful against zoo as firespout.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer] (5/13/2013-7/25/14)
    Quote from Lantern
    I'd say its 35-65 not us. At least in my list. I run rampagers to get over walls, tokens, and finkses, pillars for voice and finks, paths for the same reason, and a ton of hate in the side. Unlike hyper zoo which hits a finks and dies hard, this deck has a bit more give on it, since it has more gas as well.

    That videos Zoo was not the best in the world for modern, and looked more like a legacy zoo, legacy maverick, modern hatebears mashup than a Legacy zoo, Gruul zoo mashup as modern should have.

    Agreed on that list. I was really disappointed to watch it earlier, not sure if the pro players are sitting on better lists for the PT or just not as tuned into what makes zoo work in modern right now. Either way though, I wouldn't really be in the market for such as Steppe Lynx unless my biggest interest was pushing damage as fast as possible (i.e. uninteractive combo meta). Against the fair decks that are willing to interact, it's just asking to wind up blown out.

    KoTR has been good for me against pod over Smiter. He's just bigger when it comes to having a big turn with Bloodrush. Likewise Qasali Pridemage main deck has felt good in the pod matchup, not just for answering their engine but for making back and forth combat a bit easier (makes them have to commit a 2nd creature to a block or just chump a Kird Ape with Kitchen Finks etc). It's not just having the path and pillar, but being able to save them for the right moment Smile

    Fortunately Kiki-Pod is a bit easier. Their mana base hurts them and they can wind up being vulnerable to BoP getting bolted. Getting caught in a Resto/Kitchen Finks play is pretty much game over though, even for more resilient zoo lists.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer] (5/13/2013-7/25/14)
    Quote from Magix
    @ Handwritten Hero
    I am somewhat hesitant about 4 drops right now. It would mean to increase the land count and steal important maindeck space. You trade speed with consistency which is not bad per se, but if you aim for more midrange I think Domri Kibler Zoo is the place to be. It has all the stuff you wish to play and as much 1-drops. Swords are also very slow in Small Zoo, it already sucks to get a dude killed in responce to Rampager, I dont want that to happen on the crucial turn 4. Boarding out 1-drops delutes the gameplan even more.

    4 drops aren't too risky from sideboard and don't necessarily mean a requirement to increase the land count. Path to Exile happens and it cheats mana requirements a bit.

    Swords are generally slow, but it's basic theory of an aggro mirror. There's actually very few games where one player pulls far ahead (usually happens when one player floods out and the other sticks nicely at 2 lands and has the right mix of removal and efficient threats)...otherwise you're banging 3/3s into 2/3s into 2/2s and 3/4 or 4/4 and bolts are spent managing the field as things become a war of attrition. What sword does is improve the quality of every single threat you put onto the field in a grindy game, so when you're both playing off the top and are on 3 or 4 mana from paths, you draw a Nacatl that's actually able to do an impression of being a 5/5 for 3 mana, whereas your opponent just draws a 3/3 for 1 and leaves 2 mana unused.

    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer] (5/13/2013-7/25/14)
    Quote from Lantern
    Zoo: Nothing. Coin flip. Fall out maybe. Charms maybe, out pillar.

    We can do much better than coin flip.

    I'm a big fan of having some beef for the direct mirror (small zoo on small zoo). Obviously Rampager gets hardcast and Smiter fits the bill, but there's a few good options from the bench...
    Ranger of Eos to go the grindy route (fetch up double Nacatl)
    Elspeth to just go pure evasion or wall up
    Thrun to wall up
    Various swords...I personally like Light and Shadow since anything carrying it is too big to burn out so it's effectively red protection and WaP is usually bad against empty hands.

    Just bring whichever you like having around for other matchups (Elspeth is awesome against Melira pod, less so Kiki due to Resto where sword shines more. Thrun obviously against blue decks.)
    I also sideboard Scavenging Ooze since he can go legitimately big and the lifegain isn't irrelevant. He's not as effective a graveyard hate for the Living End matchup, but he's fine against pod and decks trying to cheat the gy a little i.e. Dredgevine or anything Reanimator.

    I tend to cut some of my 1 drops...even Nacatl walls Kird Ape so you don't want the full 6 of that effect, especially with no Pridemage in your 75 to force through combat (I'd overvalue Rampager since we only get so many answers to guys bigger than bolt and walking into the 2 for 1 isn't a good call when he causes grief as a 4/4 after they path ramp us)

    EDIT: I think Charm is really bad for the mirror. It doesn't present a repeatable threat and only saves our guys from bolt. Anything we care enough to save is usually because it's bigger than bolt (limited answers) and sadly charm doesn't stop path.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer] (5/13/2013-7/25/14)
    Quote from Lantern
    3. He talks about fink being a problem, makes no reference to pillar of flame. Edit: till side.

    4. Talks about how he main decks mind censer because lack of side space and he wants to cover all his problems. I have a different Idea, have a good main deck, so you dont die to inconsistency. It may seem "Dumb" or unintelligent, but having a race option as plan a is really important. Alot of decks you shouldnt win againt you do because you just go faster.

    5.Ghor-Clan Rampager- Yes. We use it to make finks less deadly, turning it into single chump, no life gained, no removal. But it really shines vs token/weenie chumps and to kill big midrange blockers like goyf or smiter. He undervalues that card a ton.

    In amongst this as well, I think he undervalues Pridemage:

    "While it doesn't lock the opponent out like a Meddling Mage or Gaddock Teeg, the deck doesn't need to shut someone down so much as buy a turn or two to attack and force through damage. My problem with most hate bears is that they're narrow and provide unimpressive clocks. Qasali Pridemage needs an artifact or enchantment to turn it on"

    There's also the other side to Pridemage where it's turned on by attacking with any creature solo. I'm in the market for sending a Kird Ape to 3/4 into a 3/2 Kitchen Finks. Sounds a lot like buying that turn or two, just in the future and relieves some of the pressure to have and spend path or pillar right now.

    Plus exalted plays really well with Ghor-Clan Rampager. Your opponent thinks they're getting you by letting you attack (planning to burn out your 1 attacker with exalted on stack) but they're really just turning on Rampager. The beautiful thing about zoo is these situations come up a lot, because against fair decks you can settle into a rhythm of having to make space for attacks and managing the swing back. It looks like a perfectly innocent play and sets a trap.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
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