A few questions for you.
1.) How was herald throughout the 3 days?
2.) Did you ever wish you had access to aether grid or was the anti hate enough for you?
3.) How did your post board games vs tron go? I want as much info as possible on that matchup because it seems abysmal
it's been discussed a lot in the thread. the consensus is it's bad for multiple reasons. 1 not tutorable 2 doesn't help win through stony silence 3 requires an entire turn cycle to end the game in which a single removal spell stops you.
So I think I've finalized my list for this upcoming pptq season with the only cards I'm still uncertain of being: 3rd rainbow land vs academy ruins and if 2x damnation really deserve their slot.
I'd love to discuss my thought process on particular cards so please let me know what you think and what questions you have if any.
I like the look of this list overall and its the next one I'll try. I have not loved the collective brutality in the main and was moving back towards fatal push. It's so frustrating to get hit with Thalia/Arbiter/Kataki/Druid type cards and be somehow stuck unable to brutality. I've also been stuck looking at scvaenging oozes and spell quellers that brutality can't kill. The # of times I have whiffed on the duress are considerable, and the drain is pretty fringe outside of the burn match.
Decisions that stick out:
1) Infernal Tutor. I think you mentioned before this is a decent card but a totally optional fun-of at the end of the day.
2) Maindeck cage over relic/spellbomb. Unable to cantrip it when its useless, but I'm guessing the idea is its way higher impact when it actually matters. I'll try it but I'm skeptical - this feels more like a metagame call than anything else?
3)Single talisman. I like the idea of whirring for it when I'm choked on mana with an opal out already, I'm just not sure that ever comes up in reality.
4) Torpor Orb. I don't get what people are doing with this card. It shuts off your own primary win condition. You lay it down and now you pray to draw a tezzeret I guess? Or do you at some point sac it to foundry and make a bunch of tokens? (eg you have established thopter/sword/sieve?)? I need to know how to win once this comes down because the nonbo with our deck is real.
5) spellskite. For bogles? Curious when/why this comes in when we have jars. I guess it hits cryptic/echoing truth bounces and flickerwisp exiles?
1) this card is a lot better the more I play it the fact that it can be whir 5 is awesome but grabbing an impactful sideboard card (damnation, demon, decay, grid) is a huge bonus. Even grabbing a tezz is game 1s when you whir out bridge is huge.
2) firstly my 2 main deck bullet slots are relic amd cage. cage never hurts us and playing it out on turn 1 can cause people to scoop potentially (This card has stolen so many game 1s from storm) cage in the main has replaced my pithing needle as I've had so many games where I wanted to play pithing needle turn 1 to enable moxes while being mana efficient (no serum or inq) but I don't have enough information to call a card blind.
3) talisman is a concession to the atrocity that is double mox openers with no way to enable them or even use the lotus petal quickly. It will also help with the new 3 mana "lands don't untap" wrath.its also good for whirring out from time to time like when you have all parts of your combo in hand but only 2 lands plus pentad
4) torpor orb is just good vs hate bears style decks with an abundance of ten effects it gives you time to assemble the combo (much like bridge does against midrange decks) then you eat your orb and go off ezpz.
5) spellskite is just antihate for exile/bounce (most notably storm and flicker wisp as you brought up)
So I think I've finalized my list for this upcoming pptq season with the only cards I'm still uncertain of being: 3rd rainbow land vs academy ruins and if 2x damnation really deserve their slot.
Before I had baubles I was running 2 mox. Now I'm running 3 with the baubles and a single talisman of dominance instead of the 4th mox I've tried both ways and I'm a pretty big fan of the talisman I've whired for it several times to get guaranteed tezz mana or 5th mana source to go infinite with sieve when I get whir flooded.
I'd say start with trav's list a few posts above and play a lot of games with it.
I think the 4 tezz plan is bad, for those asking why we are on 3, because I've had many games while running 4 tezz in which i cast a tezz with prism mana then drew a second 1 without 4 actual mana sources. From here bridge doesnt protect you as well as youd like from some decks.
The benefit of academy ruins is that in conjunction with time sieve you have a truly infinite amount of damage so it's possible to beat decks with "infinite life gain" if you can land your combo preventing them from gaining anymore life as you won't be able to deck yourself ever. It's also nice vs old jund style decks.
I think Lilly matches the strategy of the deck well but unfortunately has the problem of being at a highly contested point on the curve. Whir and/or bridge is going to be demanding that mana which just leaves an extra permanent stranded in your hand that you might not even cast on t4
Stuffy doll is interesting but it's very expensive and I can't think of a situation where I'd rather have doll over endearing bridge. The current list is REALLY tight too so in not sure where I'd slot it in. Heck only in the past few pages of discussion have people started to give up on trading post which is less expensive and had many many functions.
On an unrelated note I've been testing 1x infernal tutor and man this card is the real deal. I also love that it effectively gives me "2 copies" of my singleton main deck maelstrom pulse. The only games where infernal tutor has been iffy is when i get it in my opener along with 2 tezz in my first 9 cards. Also I've had lines in testing where whirr for talisman of dominance was an option that made sense so I've been liking having it around. I'm back up to 4 mox, no reason not to play something so broken even if sometimes it's just a lotus petal.
Oh, sorry about that. My deck list app has been freaking out I'm going to have to re-evaluate this again. it was supposed to be 3 mox 4 prism 1 talisman instead of 4mox 4 prism
Edit:The reason for only 3 opal is that in testing the number of double opal opening hands without 2 additional artifacts has been high enough to be noticeable and I want to alleviate that issue.
Here is the list I'm thinking of running for the upcoming pptq season. I've been picking out everything I like from the thread while adding a few of my own touches, mainly the talismans to alleviate the pressure for u/b under our own blood moon. Thoughts?
I think in the 4 mox 4 bauble version of the deck blood moon makes a lot of sense as you can land it before tron comes down on the draw fairly consistently
Other pointed hate cards that need to be added to the side board section are pulse the fields kor firewalker(burn) celestial purge(jund) and cranial extraction variants(scapeshift).
1.) How was herald throughout the 3 days?
2.) Did you ever wish you had access to aether grid or was the anti hate enough for you?
3.) How did your post board games vs tron go? I want as much info as possible on that matchup because it seems abysmal
1) this card is a lot better the more I play it the fact that it can be whir 5 is awesome but grabbing an impactful sideboard card (damnation, demon, decay, grid) is a huge bonus. Even grabbing a tezz is game 1s when you whir out bridge is huge.
2) firstly my 2 main deck bullet slots are relic amd cage. cage never hurts us and playing it out on turn 1 can cause people to scoop potentially (This card has stolen so many game 1s from storm) cage in the main has replaced my pithing needle as I've had so many games where I wanted to play pithing needle turn 1 to enable moxes while being mana efficient (no serum or inq) but I don't have enough information to call a card blind.
3) talisman is a concession to the atrocity that is double mox openers with no way to enable them or even use the lotus petal quickly. It will also help with the new 3 mana "lands don't untap" wrath.its also good for whirring out from time to time like when you have all parts of your combo in hand but only 2 lands plus pentad
4) torpor orb is just good vs hate bears style decks with an abundance of ten effects it gives you time to assemble the combo (much like bridge does against midrange decks) then you eat your orb and go off ezpz.
5) spellskite is just antihate for exile/bounce (most notably storm and flicker wisp as you brought up)
4 Whir of Invention
4 Serum Visions
1 Infernal Tutor
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Artifacts
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Talisman of Dominance
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Time Sieve
2 Welding Jar
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Lands
1 Breeding Pool
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
3 Spire of Industry
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Collective Brutality
2 Damnation
1 Ghirapur Aether Grid
1 Herald of Anguish
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Pithing Needle
1 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
1 Trinisphere
1 Witchbane Orb
I'd love to discuss my thought process on particular cards so please let me know what you think and what questions you have if any.
I think the 4 tezz plan is bad, for those asking why we are on 3, because I've had many games while running 4 tezz in which i cast a tezz with prism mana then drew a second 1 without 4 actual mana sources. From here bridge doesnt protect you as well as youd like from some decks.
On an unrelated note I've been testing 1x infernal tutor and man this card is the real deal. I also love that it effectively gives me "2 copies" of my singleton main deck maelstrom pulse. The only games where infernal tutor has been iffy is when i get it in my opener along with 2 tezz in my first 9 cards. Also I've had lines in testing where whirr for talisman of dominance was an option that made sense so I've been liking having it around. I'm back up to 4 mox, no reason not to play something so broken even if sometimes it's just a lotus petal.
Edit:The reason for only 3 opal is that in testing the number of double opal opening hands without 2 additional artifacts has been high enough to be noticeable and I want to alleviate that issue.
1 Breeding Pool
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Spire of Industry
1 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
1 Infernal Tutor
2 Collective Brutality
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Serum Visions
4 Whir of Invention
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 mox opal
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mishra's Bauble
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pentad Prism
1 Pithing Needle
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Talisman of Dominance
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Time Sieve
2 Welding Jar
3 Blood Moon
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
3 Thoughtseize
1 Torpor Orb
1 Trinisphere
1 Witchbane orb