Hi guys im runnin this list, but i just bought 2x Vendillion Clique and 3x Cryptic Command so i want to change the deck for that, what should i replace for that?
Guys just let it go, you're obviously going on very different paths with the deck.
If renwotac's list is as good as he claims it is, somebody will pick it up and put up results with it sooner or later whether it's on a GP, an SCG tournament or online.
It may sound rude of me to say, but results prove more than debate.
Until the build puts up results somewhere, you can't really make claims about which build is correct, or stronger or whatever.
It's worth noting that the highest placing UWR geist decks in the past year or so have run cryptic commands.
Vjeran Horvat had 3 main when he won GP prague, when DRS was around.
Shohei Mita had 2 main and he finished 3rd/4th in Kobe. This was pre- treasure cruise. ( probably the most similar field to the current predicted meta-game )
Vjeran Horvat then again narrowly missed top 8 in Milan running 2 main in the treasure cruise meta.
So frankly I dont understand why people are going around saying cryptic command is a bad card in this archetype when the finishes say otherwise.
The finishes DON'T say otherwise. How many Jeskai decks were at the top tables of the Pro Tour? Zero...
You're talking about results pre Khans. Burn is much better new with Swiftspear and shares a larger metashare. Affinity is as popular as ever wherever my team is playing. Cryptic is playable, it's just not something good to be doing. If you like it go ahead and play it. I'm just letting you know why this deck isn't performing and one of the reasons is CC another reason is people trying to force Geist in an unfriendly meta.
I'm not saying you are wrong or disagreeing with you because metagames everywhere are different, what works in a certain region might not work in another, the online meta is also not totally representative of the paper met but you should not be saying other builds aren't as good as yours based on your testing in your own meta.
Since PTFRF is partially limited format, the top 8 decks dont necessarily tell the whole story of modern. If we're looking at results from pro tour fate reforged for modern decks that finished 6-4 or better, only 1 UWR midrange deck is listed, Henry Romero's (7-3) with 4 geists, 3 cryptics. But his list is quite different from the typical UWR lists we see, namely the absence of remands and the addition of young pyromancers. Sure he didnt finish in the top 8 but as far as modern goes, he had a pretty good run with the deck.
As far as high profile finishes go lack of results can be partially attributed to how small the deck's metagame share is compared to the vast metagame shares that archetypes like junk, burn and infect showed at the pro tour. The day 2 metagame break down of PTFRF shows only 5 UWR decks made day 2. That is a 1.9% metagame share. For this statistic, UWR midrange and UWR control were considered the same archetype and only 2 made it into 6-4 or better. One being Henry Romero's Geist build and the other being Shuhei Nakamura's control build.
Considering the facts, would you still say that Geist and cryptic are bad choices moving forward ?
The point i am trying to illustrate is that the appearance of this archetype are few and far between at the top tables so any list that finishes with a somewhat good score should not have its card choices dismissed.
It's worth noting that the highest placing UWR geist decks in the past year or so have run cryptic commands.
Vjeran Horvat had 3 main when he won GP prague, when DRS was around.
Shohei Mita had 2 main and he finished 3rd/4th in Kobe. This was pre- treasure cruise. ( probably the most similar field to the current predicted meta-game )
Vjeran Horvat then again narrowly missed top 8 in Milan running 2 main in the treasure cruise meta.
So frankly I dont understand why people are going around saying cryptic command is a bad card in this archetype when the finishes say otherwise.
Monastery Mentor feels more like a delver card to me. They can make use of the effect much more than UWR midrange due to the sheer amount of cheap spells they have.
Our spells are generally of better quality with higher costs, but with Mentor I think quantity > quality being that they can keep chaining cheap cantrips to have a steady stream of tokens going whereas in midrange we're rarely casting more than 1 or 2 instants/sorceries in a single turn until we go for the win with burn.
I think it could still be good but definitely not a card to just slot in.
vs tron and scapeshift, you want to have a clock (for instance, turn 2 snapcaster sometimes helps). vs Junk/GBx in general, i'ld bring keranos/batterskull, relic of progenitus, leyline of sanctity, (if you have) celestial purge and sometimes engineered explosives (for 2 it can hit bob, goyf and ooze). Regarding Thrun, i don't have a plan for him, except keeping the board clear so that if he attacks (4 damage), they'll take 6 from geist and/or chump block with batterskull or with thundermaw hellkite. Eventually win with bolt-snap-bolt + attack with flying colonnade
If tron , scapeshift and GBx really become the decks to beat, i'd say the black splash gets better. Crackling Doom/Slaughter Games is probably a better answer than whatever we currently have against those problems you mentioned. The only downside is a slightly more painful mana base and inability to run tectonic edge/ghost quarter reliably.
i dont think that it is ever a good idea to play swords as long as GBx and abrupt decay and running rampant. Which seems to be what most people think will be the best deck post bannings.
I am pretty sure no UWR decks ran swords before treasure cruise came about and i dont think running swords now will improve anything.
sure it's awesome if it sticks but there isn't much else for them to use their ADs on, maybe as a SB card ?
But wouldn't mirran crusader just be better ? since aside from LoTV there's no real good way to get rid of him.
Bear in mind that venser has some very niche uses.
He can be a soft 'counter' to uncounterable spells like abrupt decay, supreme verdict, emrakul or thrun as he removes them from the stack so they don't resolve.
I don't think there is anyone saying not to run rather than how many is the right number to run and to still be able to get efficient use out of snapcaster Mage at the same time.
I'm sure it's good but I think our graveyard is a much too important a resource to justify any more than 2 dig through time, personally I wouldnt go more than 1.
Could probably cut 1 angel, 1 helix, 1 leak, and move batterskull to the side to accommodate 2 cliques and 2 cryptics
If renwotac's list is as good as he claims it is, somebody will pick it up and put up results with it sooner or later whether it's on a GP, an SCG tournament or online.
It may sound rude of me to say, but results prove more than debate.
Until the build puts up results somewhere, you can't really make claims about which build is correct, or stronger or whatever.
We'll see in the upcoming months.
I'm not saying you are wrong or disagreeing with you because metagames everywhere are different, what works in a certain region might not work in another, the online meta is also not totally representative of the paper met but you should not be saying other builds aren't as good as yours based on your testing in your own meta.
Since PTFRF is partially limited format, the top 8 decks dont necessarily tell the whole story of modern. If we're looking at results from pro tour fate reforged for modern decks that finished 6-4 or better, only 1 UWR midrange deck is listed, Henry Romero's (7-3) with 4 geists, 3 cryptics. But his list is quite different from the typical UWR lists we see, namely the absence of remands and the addition of young pyromancers. Sure he didnt finish in the top 8 but as far as modern goes, he had a pretty good run with the deck.
As far as high profile finishes go lack of results can be partially attributed to how small the deck's metagame share is compared to the vast metagame shares that archetypes like junk, burn and infect showed at the pro tour. The day 2 metagame break down of PTFRF shows only 5 UWR decks made day 2. That is a 1.9% metagame share. For this statistic, UWR midrange and UWR control were considered the same archetype and only 2 made it into 6-4 or better. One being Henry Romero's Geist build and the other being Shuhei Nakamura's control build.
The breakdown can be found here : http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/ptfrf/day-two-modern-metagame-breakdown-2015-02-07
Considering the facts, would you still say that Geist and cryptic are bad choices moving forward ?
The point i am trying to illustrate is that the appearance of this archetype are few and far between at the top tables so any list that finishes with a somewhat good score should not have its card choices dismissed.
Vjeran Horvat had 3 main when he won GP prague, when DRS was around.
Shohei Mita had 2 main and he finished 3rd/4th in Kobe. This was pre- treasure cruise. ( probably the most similar field to the current predicted meta-game )
Vjeran Horvat then again narrowly missed top 8 in Milan running 2 main in the treasure cruise meta.
So frankly I dont understand why people are going around saying cryptic command is a bad card in this archetype when the finishes say otherwise.
I mean c'mon you could at least show some respect to your opponent.
Our spells are generally of better quality with higher costs, but with Mentor I think quantity > quality being that they can keep chaining cheap cantrips to have a steady stream of tokens going whereas in midrange we're rarely casting more than 1 or 2 instants/sorceries in a single turn until we go for the win with burn.
I think it could still be good but definitely not a card to just slot in.
If tron , scapeshift and GBx really become the decks to beat, i'd say the black splash gets better. Crackling Doom/Slaughter Games is probably a better answer than whatever we currently have against those problems you mentioned. The only downside is a slightly more painful mana base and inability to run tectonic edge/ghost quarter reliably.
I am pretty sure no UWR decks ran swords before treasure cruise came about and i dont think running swords now will improve anything.
sure it's awesome if it sticks but there isn't much else for them to use their ADs on, maybe as a SB card ?
But wouldn't mirran crusader just be better ? since aside from LoTV there's no real good way to get rid of him.
Just my 2 cents.
He can be a soft 'counter' to uncounterable spells like abrupt decay, supreme verdict, emrakul or thrun as he removes them from the stack so they don't resolve.
Aside from the obvious removal, there's not much around in the air in modern that beats it in combat.
I can see it being decent vs delver, get in 3 hasty damage and can still block.