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  • posted a message on Modern Spirits
    There are definitely advocates of UW here and on reddit. But claiming UW is superior? That's an opinion that's stretching a bit far. UW does certain things better than Bant and vice versa. There are also differing play patterns to an extent. There are also different pros and cons for things like mana consistency, explosiveness etc. Bant is definitely capable of the more powerful plays due to collected company.

    There are valid reasons for those who favour UW over Bant. Personally I'm on the Bant side of things.

    But based on the only quantifiable metrics available, Bant is better. Higher play rate, appearances in top 8s across multiple GPs.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    "The thing that makes me think Humans may be the better tribal deck is the fact that Humans is in EVERY set, right? I feel as though the deck has the chance of being a lesser stagnant tribal deck than, well, any tribal deck."

    Knight of Autumn is an upgrade for any deck that can support Green and White. The conversation is about continued direct support down the line for Spirits vs Humans specifically with regards to the core creature type.

    Read between the lines a little bit. Does everything need to be defined to the letter or are you just being pedantic for the sake of it?
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from Spsiegel1987 »
    I'm frustrated to see how quickly Noble went back up already.



    I kind of expected this for the format staples like hierarch and snap. High power-level, sees play in multiple decks, played in 4s. Yeap.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    There may be humans in every set, and just because they are 'good' doesn't mean they will improve the deck. The Humans core is very tight. There's 3, 4 flex slots maximum.

    When Militia Bugler was revealed, the humans ban-mania (at the time) went to an all-time high. In actuality, Militia Bugler turned out to just be a solid choice. The humans community are pretty split on the more value oriented Bugler build or Heretic Cathar / Kessig Malcontents more aggressive build. After that fiasco got settled, there were similar reactions to Tajic and plaguecrafter being the next things to push humans over the edge, neither of which are seeing play.

    Unless WOTC prints something like a strictly better mantis rider/reflector mage/lieutenant type of core card, new humans will only serve to diversify builds, not increase its power level.

    Based on that I think that Spirits and Humans will remain at roughly the same level of viability even though humans gets more cards.

    Edit: Also because SPirits gets to play coloured non-creature SB cards. RiP and Stony Silence will always be relevant unless WOTC actually prints those effects on human creature cards.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Thopter Sword was part of a winning strategy in Extended, not accomplishing anything of note in Modern. Goblins with vial might have been ban-worthy in extended. None of that really means anything in Modern. Extended as a format is fundamentally built differently from Modern, it is also a rotating format with a much smaller card pool.

    Cards need to be evaluated in the context of each format. Vial has been in Modern since its inception, I struggle to remember a time when it was dominating for an extended period.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Why is there a need for anything to be banned? Modern has proven again that it has the ability to self-regulate well enough. Maybe as a community we need to see that perhaps we aren't that good at evaluating cards and decks right off the bat and not be in such a hurry to pitchfork something. It was shadow decks, then it was humans, then it was KCI, then it was dredge.

    Looting, Stirrings and vial are enabling a good variety of decks, with varying scales of interactivity/linearity. We've had downright horrible top 8/16s, we've also had very healthy top 8/16s. All this shows is that Modern CAN adapt. Fair decks CAN rise up to beat the 'linear menace'.

    Edit: In fact, the dreaded format boogeymen of KCI & Dredge that wrecked havoc in previous events, hardly got a look in here.
    From the top 100 day 2 decks to the top 16. Stirrings decks as a whole under-performed(KCI 1/6, Tron 2/8 and Scales 0/7).
    Looting decks converted decently on the back of excellent performance by Phoenix (4/7), dredge failed to convert at (0/5). Vial decks also under-performed with Spirits (2/14) and Humans (0/3).
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from gkourou »
    Quote from gkourou »

    Day 2 metagame breakdown(100 decks out of 322 decks)

    Bant Spirits 14
    Mono-Green Tron 8
    Hardened Scales Affinity 7
    Izzet Phoenix 7
    Krark-Clan Ironworks 6
    Burn 5
    Dredge 5
    White-Blue Control 4
    Elves 3
    Five-Color Humans 3
    Hollow Phoenix 3
    Storm 3
    Others....


    Note that in seven out of 6 out of the first 7 categories, one can find either Ancient Stirrings, Faithless Looting, or Aether Vial.


    I don't see what the significance of this statistic is. So what are you implying?

    In that same 6 out of the first 7, one can also find lightning bolt, mox opal, serum visions, noble hierarch, collected company etc. Shall we start taking note of those as well?



    The only single common denominators for those decks are Stirrings, Looting and Vials. For example, Stirrings is being played on 3 distinct archetypes(Scales Affinity, Tron, KCI), while your serum visions paradigm only one, same with Lightning Bolt only on one (Izzet Phoenix and partly on KCI sideboard).
    This is not to say we should ban or remove things, it's just to say how powerful really Ancient Stirrings is, a suspicion we already had.


    Uhhh, the only card that has common denominators in the top 7 decks that you laid out is ancient stirrings, seeing play in 3 different decks. In that 7, only ONE uses Vial. That's not having common denominators. The other 2 yes. If you're extending that to the entire list other than the top 7 then yes I agree.

    As you said, we all know how powerful stirrings and looting are, that hasn't changed for the past what 4 or 5 big events now? There's really no need to call special attention to any of those 3 cards.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from gkourou »

    Day 2 metagame breakdown(100 decks out of 322 decks)

    Bant Spirits 14
    Mono-Green Tron 8
    Hardened Scales Affinity 7
    Izzet Phoenix 7
    Krark-Clan Ironworks 6
    Burn 5
    Dredge 5
    White-Blue Control 4
    Elves 3
    Five-Color Humans 3
    Hollow Phoenix 3
    Storm 3
    Others....


    Note that in seven out of 6 out of the first 7 categories, one can find either Ancient Stirrings, Faithless Looting, or Aether Vial.


    I don't see what the significance of this statistic is. So what are you implying?

    In that same 6 out of the first 7, one can also find lightning bolt, mox opal, serum visions, noble hierarch, collected company etc. Shall we start taking note of those as well?

    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    I really enjoyed watching the dredge vs mill match (Round 11 I believe) on the Liverpool stream. I know many might be thinking dredge vs mill?? pffft 2 ships passing in the night typical modern goldfish format bla bla bla just based on what these 2 decks do but it was a really good match. The posturing and timing of key spells at key turns from mill to take the match shows that even among 'linear' decks there can be a lot of skill involved.

    Edit: After watching a couple more rounds of Liverpool, I think the UR thing/phoenix decks are really sweet. Good set-up, hollywood-play swing turns to switch defense to offense, ability to race while packing robust amount of interaction.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Modern Spirits
    Eidolon of Rhetoric
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on SCG Baltimore Open
    RD5: Jadine Klomparens (Jund) vs Jonathan Rosum (Jeskai Control)

    Here we are with a classic match up. Lets goooo
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    I read, I just think the premise you layed out is flawed because if you have enough time to play a Stoneforge, wait 1 turn to cheat in a batterskull and still have the luxury of time be able to bounce and replay constantly, then as a control deck, you likely already have the game locked up and any slow win-con will get you there.

    Maybe you've been away from Modern but I assure you that Modern as it is right now, there is no way you have the time to play a batterskull recursion game.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    How is any of that relevant?

    I could apply the same logic to ANY pay off card in a low-resource situation - Gideon AOZ, Jace, Lili, Teferi, BBE just to name a few. Any deck that wants to get to the late game already has those tools of inevitability. How is SFM + Skull better than those? And you really don't need to deal with both SFM and skull, you just need to deal with one, depending on the stage of the game.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from idSurge »
    Quote from rcwraspy »
    Quote from ktkenshinx »
    Posting memes, one-liners, and other such low-effort posts doesn't even try to convince people. It's just regurgitating tired tropes and repeating the exact same kind of minimum-content complaining we've heard for years on mediums like Twitch.
    I posted the meme, but it was more satire than anything else. I'm still in the "leave SFM banned" camp. Everybody's arguments leading up to my post basically boiled down to the same tired drivel of "T3 BSkull is nuffink compurred to teh combos" and I decided to meme it. Not the best of decisions, but oh well. Nobody seems to understand context, nuance and consequences when discussing unbans. Or they understand it and simply choose not to engage with it. The problem with SFM has never been about the T3 Batterskull and whether that beats any decks. It's about the shell that the SFM package fits into and the inevitability the package provides. SFM and Twin both occupy that same space, so it's really no wonder that there's such a large crossover in the people discussing both.


    I still cannot fathom your argument here though. You dont like the inevitability? You dont like the shell? I just dont understand the issue. Its power level is NOT outside the realm of Modern to answer, and you dont need to be main decking something stupid like RIP, or have 4 Leyline of the Void in the side to do it.

    You just need to be able to answer a creature, that can even be pushed, or an artifact.

    Is that bar REALLY too high?


    What inevitability is there even? Cards like K-command, Knight of Autumn easily 2-for-1 a turn 3 batterskull. Now you have a bunch of *****ty 1/2s in your deck that do absolutely nothing. Stoneforge-based strategies are already bang average in Legacy and that's even with Jitte.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    See there's this whole debacle when pros make claims. Even the pro community is split on this issue. We went through this same song and dance way back with hellfire and sisicat. Quoting what pros say only devolves the thread into so-and-so pro said this therefore my opinion is validated while dismissing the other bunch of pros who say differently. For every pro who wants twin in, there's likely one who wants twin out. And let's be real, they're not going to able to prove anything anyway. Articles like these are just that, theories.

    Appeal to 'authority' should have no place in these discussions or be taken with a huge grain of salt.
    Posted in: Modern
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