Here is what I would be testing if available today, guess I need to get Workstation going lol. Obviously the whole set isn't revealed yet, but this is the build I like best so far. Everything is subject to change. Let me know what you think.
I actually like it a lot! It's more PW-heavy, which is fine. I really do hope there's a good replacement for O-Ring.
I've been thinking this for a long time. Rather than Brave the Elements, why not implement a 3x Eldrazi Monument? It seems logical enough to me -- especially when running token generators like Elspeth. With the new Elsepth especially it will be a great addition to Soul Sisters.
Soul Sisters can run Sun Titan as a 2-of, too, to bring back sacrificed creatures. There's also Emeria, the Sky Ruin. And, like you said, there's Elspeth 2.0. EM is screaming to be played in this deck.
Sleep and Sunblast are a one sided sweep, some people may like that better than a full board wipe.
That's 10 mana as opposed to 4. It's not a bad idea for the reward, especially since Sun Titan has Vigilance. Post-Sunblast, you'll have a board with 1-2 Wall of Omens, 1 Sun Titan, and 1 Sunblast Angel. That's game.
The only reason I would run Frost Titan over Sun, is if you were running Venser to take advantage of the cip ability, which according to your list, your not. Imo Frost Titan is the weakest of the Titan's (Inferno being arguable), and Sun has a lot more synergy with u/w.
I'd replace 2 Chalice with 2 Beleren, and sub Frost out for Sun. I'd also drop Cancel for Essence Scatter, depending on your meta. I'll post my list for critique soon.
What do you think of mine? Also, Essence Scatter is on its way out. I wouldn't even bother. Frost Titan is really good in W/U Control, especially with Venser. Without Venser, I prefer Sphinx of Jwar Isle.
If you have a soul warden reprint, i think you'll see this deck continue to work. You lose Ranger of Eos, but I think losing that pales to what other decks in the format lose. Lone Missionary will definately see play in more and more builds.
Lone Missionary would definitely be a good addition. If the game goes late, and there's an Emeria, the Sky Ruin online, it becomes a reoccurring 4 life chump blocker.
Two things Wizards does every single set to yank Timmy's chain - 1) Print a 2/2 for 1 mana, with a bs contingency 2) Print a UU counterspell, with a bs contingency.
I'm a little tired of cards being added just so that we can play a version of Magic that has already proved itself capable of being balanced. I'm also a little tired of cards being added to the card pools of eternal formats that are strictly worse than other cards. Most of all, I'm tired of seeing sets that have next to no innovation and novelty.
Consider this, too...the game has been around for about 17 years or so. Innovation and novelty is a bit irrelevant at this point. Planeswalkers are the most recent game-changing addition, which was also innovative, but they've been a love/hate affair.
I'm a Johnny too, but it seems rather underwhelming. I can see it possibly in a control-type deck, but it's too slow to get going. There are other options available.
venser is getting the sarkhan treatment, a new multicolored planeswalker, who is very iconic and has so much flavor, getting hyped for being in the UW spectrum, but will not stay at anywhere near that value, where as elspeth fits right into UW and koth is a house in anything heavy red
We'll just have to wait and see. I believe people will find ways to exploit Venser.
MD:
I wanted to go for more of a permission build while trying to keep the curve as low as possible, focusing more on the planeswalkers. I could not fit BSA into the deck (which I know a lot of you are going crazy over). No matter how many times I fish it out when I pull a BSA I would rather see an Elspeth, or a Gideon, or a counterspell.
JTMS gets the nod over JB in the event I pull a card I don't need (DoJ when I have Elspeth at the ready and in complete control of the field) so I can Brainstorm then Fateseel it away.
Frost Titan gets the nod over Sun Titan as there is more of an impact imho with Frosty. Plus he has a psuedo shroud ability making my Mana Leaks good late game.
4 Everflowing Chalice? Yep. I could use them both early to land a turn 3 JTMS or late to help power out the larger cmc permanents and have counter magic open. The ability to add mana from the chalice to your pool, then use Elspeth's Ultimate in the same phase, seems tech and doesn't waste the chalice on the turn you need to Ultimate.
SB: Dispel is in the SB vs the mirror (or other counterspell happy decks) allowing me to safely land a permaenent and counter their counter. I'm not sure about Luminarch Ascension however it seems like a good choice vs the mirror or other slow decks that don't damage me right away.
Not including BSA is not a problem anymore. I think the Titans and Sphinx of Jwar Isle are better options. You raise a good question with Archive Trap/Leonin Arbiter. We'll just have to wait and see how the metagame turns out.
White power creep? This isn't even good. Probably a limited bomb, but in Constructed? Even if Baneslayer didn't exist, no one would run this; there are so many better options at 4 mana.
The only better, or alternative, options for 4cmc White creatures are (post-rotation):
Could a heavy U/W Planeswalker build be viable then?
Maybe we should go more permission base foresaking the BSAs for more counterspell space.
Perhaps we should take a look at some cards we've had for awhile and see if they're still viable. I'll start with Spreading Seas.
-Doesn't help against someone playing mono color or in an artifact deck where color may not matter
-takes up a 2cmc slot where a counterspell would fit
-is blown up on Elspeth's Ultimate
+a target for Venser
+a target for Sun Titan
+cantrip
+locks out manlands and other non-basics
Yay or nay on SS?
SS isn't a bad idea, but I always felt it was a SB card.
As you can see, the average mana cost for my spells is 2.22, which is very important when the rest of your curve is fairly high (the rest of my curve is 4).
I'm considering 2 Elspeth Tirel, 1 more Jace Beleren, 2 Brittle Effigy, 2 more Condemn, 2 Contagion Clasp, 2 Jace's Ingenuity, 1-2 more lands, 1-2 Mindslaver + 1-2 Prototype Portal, 2-4 Thrummingbird, 2-4 Sea Gate Oracle, and 2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle.
I said eBay prices. Gideon was $30 right after it was included in UW and now it is $22-23 on average. Elspeth was never more than $ 32-34 in the last six months, so you are lying. Elspeth 1 comes from a relatively poor set, it was a 4 cmc planeswalker second only to Jace and it saw play as 3-of most of the times, sometimes even 4-of. I think we can agree on Venser being not as good as Elspeth1 and SoM will most certainly be better (moneywise) than Shards. If you add that Venser is bicolored (only played in UW control) and Elspeth1 was not you will see that is quite impossible that Venser will cost more than $25 once prices are stabilized. IMO, he will fetch no more than $20
Elspeth 1.0 was indeed $40 on Ebay at some point. I've seen her for 34.99, 39.99, and even 42.99 on Ebay.
I hope you're right about Venser, though, because I want to be able to afford him.
Personnally, I think that Negate will end up as a one-of in most decks to counter other walkers (which we will be seeing more in aggro decks, at least red ones, thanks to Koth) and removal/counters, accompanied by the obliguatory 4 Mana Leaks. Depending on what removal artifact spells are in the set, I can see a combination of anywhere from 4 to 7 Cancels, Deprives, and Stoic Rebuttals. I can't see myself running this deck with anything less than 8 counters, so I think my choices will be 4 Mana Leak, 1 Negate, 2 Deprive, and 2 Stoic Rebuttal.
Of course, if there are enough playable artifacts to support it, I'll be running 4 Stoic Rebuttal and cut the Deprives or 1 Deprive and the Negate for the extra 2 Rebuttals.
The loss of O-Ring and PtE ensures that W/U Control will lean towards more permission, unless we get a good successor to O-Ring/PtE.
I actually like it a lot! It's more PW-heavy, which is fine. I really do hope there's a good replacement for O-Ring.
What do you think of mine?
2 Sun Titan
2 Frost Titan
2 Aether Adept
4 Wall of Omens
Planeswalkers: 8 (Curve: 4.25)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Jace Beleren
2 Gideon Jura
2 Venser, the Sojourner
Spells: 18 (Curve: 2.22)
4 Mana Leak
2 Deprive
2 Cancel
2 Condemn
2 Journey to Nowhere
4 Day of Judgment
2 Everflowing Chalice
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Halimar Depths
4 Island
6 Plains
3 Tectonic Edge
1 Mystifying Maze
3 Baneslayer Angel
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Negate
2 Luminarch Ascension
2 War Priest of Thune
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Celestial Purge
Curve:
0 - 2
1 - 2
2 - 10
3 - 6
4 - 6
5 - 4
6 - 4
Soul Sisters can run Sun Titan as a 2-of, too, to bring back sacrificed creatures. There's also Emeria, the Sky Ruin. And, like you said, there's Elspeth 2.0. EM is screaming to be played in this deck.
That's 10 mana as opposed to 4. It's not a bad idea for the reward, especially since Sun Titan has Vigilance. Post-Sunblast, you'll have a board with 1-2 Wall of Omens, 1 Sun Titan, and 1 Sunblast Angel. That's game.
What do you think of mine? Also, Essence Scatter is on its way out. I wouldn't even bother. Frost Titan is really good in W/U Control, especially with Venser. Without Venser, I prefer Sphinx of Jwar Isle.
2 Sun Titan
2 Frost Titan
2 Aether Adept
4 Wall of Omens
Planeswalkers: 8 (Curve: 4.25)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Jace Beleren
2 Gideon Jura
2 Venser, the Sojourner
Spells: 18 (Curve: 2.22)
4 Mana Leak
2 Deprive
2 Cancel
2 Condemn
2 Journey to Nowhere
4 Day of Judgment
2 Everflowing Chalice
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Halimar Depths
4 Island
6 Plains
3 Tectonic Edge
1 Mystifying Maze
3 Baneslayer Angel
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Negate
2 Luminarch Ascension
2 War Priest of Thune
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Celestial Purge
DoJ is a better option at 4 mana, especially if your intentions are to destroy all creatures, anyway.
Lone Missionary would definitely be a good addition. If the game goes late, and there's an Emeria, the Sky Ruin online, it becomes a reoccurring 4 life chump blocker.
Consider this, too...the game has been around for about 17 years or so. Innovation and novelty is a bit irrelevant at this point. Planeswalkers are the most recent game-changing addition, which was also innovative, but they've been a love/hate affair.
It is slow. I'd rather play Keening Stone.
We'll just have to wait and see. I believe people will find ways to exploit Venser.
Not including BSA is not a problem anymore. I think the Titans and Sphinx of Jwar Isle are better options. You raise a good question with Archive Trap/Leonin Arbiter. We'll just have to wait and see how the metagame turns out.
The only better, or alternative, options for 4cmc White creatures are (post-rotation):
That sure is a lot.
SS isn't a bad idea, but I always felt it was a SB card.
This will be my build post-rotation:
2 Sun Titan
2 Frost Titan
2 Aether Adept
4 Wall of Omens
Planeswalkers: 8 (Curve: 4.25)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Jace Beleren
2 Gideon Jura
2 Venser, the Sojourner
4 Mana Leak
2 Deprive
2 Cancel
2 Condemn
2 Journey to Nowhere
4 Day of Judgment
2 Everflowing Chalice
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Halimar Depths
4 Island
6 Plains
3 Tectonic Edge
1 Mystifying Maze
As you can see, the average mana cost for my spells is 2.22, which is very important when the rest of your curve is fairly high (the rest of my curve is 4).
I'm considering 2 Elspeth Tirel, 1 more Jace Beleren, 2 Brittle Effigy, 2 more Condemn, 2 Contagion Clasp, 2 Jace's Ingenuity, 1-2 more lands, 1-2 Mindslaver + 1-2 Prototype Portal, 2-4 Thrummingbird, 2-4 Sea Gate Oracle, and 2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle.
Elspeth 1.0 was indeed $40 on Ebay at some point. I've seen her for 34.99, 39.99, and even 42.99 on Ebay.
I hope you're right about Venser, though, because I want to be able to afford him.
The loss of O-Ring and PtE ensures that W/U Control will lean towards more permission, unless we get a good successor to O-Ring/PtE.