Unless you're in a combo infested meta, Force of Will is far, far, far from the best counterspell of all time. It's card disadvantage and only worth it if you had to tap out and it saves the game. I'd spring for an Italian Mana Draing before jamming FoW.
Has Havengul Lich been discussed on this thread before? Its for crazy activated abilities like this that I like the Ooze.
You can use him as another recusion outlet for bouncing stuff in and out of the GY. Just sac n' cast.
Hes not good enough for duals, but I feel like I would run him in multiplayer
I run him in my multiplayer deck. He's perpetually on the chopping block but I never do seem to cut him. The problem is that he costs 5, plus 1 to activate, plus whatever it is you're casting. It's just too much mana to be able to reliably activate the same turn you cast him and that means he's easy pickings before you're able to get any value out of him.
He's certainly fun when he works ("I'm going to cast your It That Betrays."), but if your goal is to have the best Marchesa deck possible, then I doubt he belongs in the list.
Interesting. I keep Chaos Warp around mostly as an answer to permanent graveyard hate (damn you Rest In Peace and Scavenging Ooze). I like the of Nevermaker, but seems like it's not sufficient in that use case.
Do you pretty much just sac Nevermaker in response to a shuffle effect? My group is pretty fetch-lite; I'm always the bastard holding up play shuffling after tutoring
I took a more or less stock list to a 53 man PPTQ yesterday.
R1 - Boggles. He basically had the nuts G1 and made short work of me. G2 he opened with a T0 Leyline and then a T2 RIP. I couldn't make enough Goblins.
R2 - Mono G something-or-other. 4 maindeck Dryad Militants + 3 Scavenging Ooze = very dead. G2 I brought in bolts and hit his T1 Militant. I had the second for his T2 Ooze, but he had Mutagenic Growth!
I stuck around for R3 for kicks and beat a Battle of Wits deck, but he made it interesting. Lots of counters, discard, and some enchantment removal. Dropped after that.
The life total I wouldn't sweat too much. Sac outlets are an essential ingredient for the deck, so you almost always have control over that aspect. Someone wraths and you're gonna get hit too hard? Just sac in response to the wrath. No problem.
I run a bit more controlling build than many in this thread w/ Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos, and Butcher of Malakir along with Toxic Deluge, Living Death and Nekrataal. And Damnation once I can get my hands on a Judge promo. I'm sure I'll be able to get some value out of the guy. Might just end up adding some mix of Merciless Executioner/Fleshbag Marauder/Slum Reaper just to maximize this dude if initial testing seems good. My shop doesn't allow infinite combos and most people play battle cruiser, so board control is real good
To Runes point though, all those cards would be great with him in his own deck
Bigger. Evasive. Triggers on fetches and blocks and incidental removal. Point taken though, as I cut Harvester long ago, so maybe Kothophed doesn't make the cut.
Are there YP lists? The "Search This Thread" function doesn't seem to be working for me. Seems bad to me though, as so many times opponents will board into something to clean up after an Empty the Warrens (eg Pyroclasm, etc) which unfortunately also answers YP. I'd think any such list would want Goblin Bushwhacker or Burst Of Speed just to ensure some value.
I've not looked over the spoiler yet, but I can't really imagine running any of the these three.
Avaricious Dragon - too much downside. "Trigger on the stack, Cyclonic Rift your board." I'd rather have an Outpost Siege if you need more gas. Both modes are good, enchantments are tougher to remove, and there's little downside besides it not being a creature.
Liliana, Heretical Healer - My group is super hostile towards planeswalkers and the -X mode is the only one I'm particularly interested in. Problem is, with a starting loyalty of 3, she'll usually need to tick up first in order to bring back something impactful. She is the one I'm most confident about though.
Mizzium Meddler - I'd rather have a sac outlet. Useful ability, but I don't like these sorts of triggers w/ a way to blink the creature.
Got a list you can share? My group finds my deck powerful, but it's definitely not unbeatable. The two obvious things to tone down a list are removing tutors and slowing it down (either less ramp or higher CMC).
How are people dealing with the various Delver decks? I played an IQ yesterday and lost to Jeskai once and Grixis twice. Fighting through all those counterspells just wasn't working for me and that's not a new problem. I think I'm going to add a couple Defense Grid to my board, but how are other people coping? Trying to bait out counters only goes so far when they've got a Delver or Pyro or Geist on board.
Odd question here, but has anyone ever tried Monastery Siege in a flex slot? Khans gives you additional card selection, but Dragons can protect Electromancers and Ascensions, it's protection against burn, protection against discard. I think I may try it out in place of a couple Ravings. May just be no good (pretty weak late in the game) but seems potentially interesting.
I run him in my multiplayer deck. He's perpetually on the chopping block but I never do seem to cut him. The problem is that he costs 5, plus 1 to activate, plus whatever it is you're casting. It's just too much mana to be able to reliably activate the same turn you cast him and that means he's easy pickings before you're able to get any value out of him.
He's certainly fun when he works ("I'm going to cast your It That Betrays."), but if your goal is to have the best Marchesa deck possible, then I doubt he belongs in the list.
R1 - Boggles. He basically had the nuts G1 and made short work of me. G2 he opened with a T0 Leyline and then a T2 RIP. I couldn't make enough Goblins.
R2 - Mono G something-or-other. 4 maindeck Dryad Militants + 3 Scavenging Ooze = very dead. G2 I brought in bolts and hit his T1 Militant. I had the second for his T2 Ooze, but he had Mutagenic Growth!
I stuck around for R3 for kicks and beat a Battle of Wits deck, but he made it interesting. Lots of counters, discard, and some enchantment removal. Dropped after that.
I run a bit more controlling build than many in this thread w/ Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos, and Butcher of Malakir along with Toxic Deluge, Living Death and Nekrataal. And Damnation once I can get my hands on a Judge promo. I'm sure I'll be able to get some value out of the guy. Might just end up adding some mix of Merciless Executioner/Fleshbag Marauder/Slum Reaper just to maximize this dude if initial testing seems good. My shop doesn't allow infinite combos and most people play battle cruiser, so board control is real good
To Runes point though, all those cards would be great with him in his own deck
Enthralling Victor also seems potentially nifty.
Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
Flying
Whenever a permanent owned by another player is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, you draw one card and lose 1 life.
Avaricious Dragon - too much downside. "Trigger on the stack, Cyclonic Rift your board." I'd rather have an Outpost Siege if you need more gas. Both modes are good, enchantments are tougher to remove, and there's little downside besides it not being a creature.
Liliana, Heretical Healer - My group is super hostile towards planeswalkers and the -X mode is the only one I'm particularly interested in. Problem is, with a starting loyalty of 3, she'll usually need to tick up first in order to bring back something impactful. She is the one I'm most confident about though.
Mizzium Meddler - I'd rather have a sac outlet. Useful ability, but I don't like these sorts of triggers w/ a way to blink the creature.