Im just gonna plug how I think that this deck is far from dead. It seems clear we have to get rid of acensions due to the loss of git probe. But thanks to recent printings both baral and curious homo provide us with plenty of discounters. Im thinking the following changes too the finkel list is the way to go (so far in testing)
-4 git probe
-4 pyro acension
-2 desperate ravings
-1 past in flames
+4 gifts ungiven
+3 remand
+1 land
+1 empty the warrens
+3 curious homo (or baral) either i feel is fine
i like the haemonculus better though because you can trigger his flip with thought scours arbitrarily, you can tap him for mana before he flips and if your opponent doesnt have bloockers he can half your needed storm count by smashing face.
Also want peoples opinions on sideboarding, i have room in my sideboard for either the madcap experiment combo (4 experiment plus platinum emperion), gifts package with (iona and elesh norn maybe griselbrand?) or 4 copies of thing in the ice. What are your thoughts on which of the three seems more viable? Keep in mind the rest of my sideboard looks like this:
Blood moons
Lightning bolts
Echoing truth
Empty the warrens
Dispels
I put this in the twin forum but i thought id leave it here too,
Hey guys just wanna say that this ban really isnt as bad for you former twin players as a lot of you are making it out to be. Because of the ban you now have 10 or so cards that are now useless garbage (4 twin, 4 deciever, 2 pestermite), but all the money cards and the core power of the deck is still legal and in tact. Perhaps the best method to deal with this ban is to construct a U/R/X tempo/control deck, as twin decks often just turn into this type of strategy after game 1 anyways against certain matchups/ At the end of the day you still have snapcasters, lightning bolts and other amazing cards that are capable of becoming a tier 1 strategy, its just gonna take some adaptation to fill the empty slots that the combo left. I mean the power behind the splinter twin deck was never just the combo in my personal opinion but instead the strong tempo plays that the deck was capable of doing.
Hey guys just wanna say that this ban really isnt as bad for you former twin players as a lot of you are making it out to be. Because of the ban you now have 10 or so cards that are now useless garbange (4 twin, 4 deciever, 2 pestermite), but all the money cards and the core power of the deck is still legal and in tact. Perhaps the best method to deal with this ban is to construct a U/R/X tempo/control deck, as twin decks often just turn into this type of strategy after game 1 anyways against certain matchups/ At the end of the day you still have snapcasters, lightning bolts and other amazing cards that are capable of becoming a tier 1 strategy, its just gonna take some adaptation to fill the empty slots that the combo left. I mean the power behind the splinter twin deck was never just the combo in my personal opinion but instead the strong tempo plays that the deck was capable of doing.
Having never tested dispel i cant say for sure swan song is better, but i will be swapping out the songs with dispels next time i play to try em out. I feel though that dispel lacks the versatility song does. Its not the counter sorcery mode that makes song good but the counter enchantment. Swan song hits splinter twin, rest in peace, leyline of sanctity, eidolon of rhetoric, night of souls betrayl (if your on plan empty)and most importantly EIDOLON OF THE GREAT REVEL(this decks worst enemy). basically all the things that can really ruin your gameplan. All this while being just as mana efficent as dispel in forcing through your win. A 2/2 swan is meaningless anyways if were forcing through the kill on that turn. Again havent yet tested dispel so ill definetly give it a try. Another card i need to testplay is defense grid, although a huge 3 mana investment into an artifact seems risky especially with there being so many efficent ways to destroy artificats in this format, often
in maindecks (kolaghans command comes to mind).
@praisethekappa I cant imagine running less then 4 serum visons in storm ever. Visions is literally the best blue cantrip we have access to, it lets us see the most cards. And its still insane during the combo because its usually getting forked so the second visions will let you draw the card you want after the first visions scry effect. Id go -1 looting and +1 visions. Your gonna find when your not goldfishing and your opponent has ways to attack your hand card disadvantage spells like looting are gonna put you in akward situations where you dont have access to a past in flames and you have no cards in hand.
Managed to 4-0 my last fnm type event with this deck. Things to note, when people arent prepared for storm and when you notice a low volume of burn players in your meta this deck feels almost tier 1. Also a couple other things i learned:
- Swan song is amazing out of the board to win the blue matchups. I currently have 2 in the board want to find a way to get up to 3.
- Blood moon, while a very predictable game 2 plan out of the board against a lot of decks just gives us free wins too often to not run a min of 3 sb
Also to anyone running the finkel list, i reccomend trying a 2/3 split of desperate ravings and grapeshot maindeck instead. Ive found that the third maindeck grapeshot helps me avoid fizzling moreso then a 3rd ravings did. It also gives you a maindeck edge against decks like affinity, elves, infect etc, you can fire off a turn 2/3 grapeshot for 2-4, wipe there board and buy you 2 turns at minimum. Its really powerful because a lot of those decks are just faster goldfishes then you, especially when you start at a virtual 15 because of our painful manabase and how we want to be casting free probes.
Have 2 sideboard slots open and i want to use counters in those slots for the faster combo decks and control/ twin, and im trying to decide between swan song or dispel. Any reccomendations on which one is better in the slot?
Current sb:
3 blood moon
3 empty
2 shatterstorm
4 bolt
1 echoing truth
Hi im considering building this deck and im wondering if the deck would still be viable if i cut the fetchland dual manabase and instead ran a goldland manabase out of city of brass gemstone mine and mana confluence. then cut the 4 brainstorms (because of no fetches) and swap them with preordain?
I know it makes ad nauseum worse but i can just cut ad nauseum as well and make the deck empty the warrens or PIF + tendrils or bust.
Im beginning to believe my greatestest room for improvment is learning when to keep certain hands. I didnt even factor in that fetching turn 1 rips a possible land hit out of the deck (as stupid as that sounds). What would you say is the threshold that keeps one land hands keepable then? For instance if my hand could dig one card deeper (serum visions instead, or a probe in addition to the slight of hand) then is it more or less a snap keep? Assuming im on the play which i was
Went 2-1-1 last night with storm and managed to place in top 8 for credit. My list is the stock Finkel list but with -1 desperate ravings and +1 grapeshot. Sideboard is as follows:
4 lightning bolt
3 blood moon
1 echoing truth
2 shatterstorm
2 swan song
3 empty the warrens
Game 1 vs grixis control 0-2
He gave me till turn 5 with no interaction to kill him but i could find a past in flames, was stuck with a bunch of rituals and lands all game. Game 2 my hand was threatening a turn 2 empty for 8, but it had one land and a sleight of hand. I kept hoping to find the second land but didnt see a second one till turn 5 to my dismay. I cant tell whether or not keepping that hand was the right decision. It was: 3 rituals, fetchland, 2 empty the warrens and a sleight of hand.
Game 2 vs UW control 1-1-1
I keep bricking on lands even though im fetching and getting my electromancers pathed. By the time im ready to kill him he has the counterspells ready. Game 2 I combo off but cant find a grapeshot so i settle for landing a blood moon which shuts him off of his only win con (collonade). I proceed to eventually combo him. Game 3 he turn on leylines me, then turn 2 RIPs. He then procceeds to drop another rip and leyline but cant find a win con. We end up drawing after he answers an empty for 12 with a supreme verdict.
Game 3 vs mono black 2-0
He had no interaction, was running despise over the other, better hand disruption spells, and had no GY hate post board.
Game 4 vs Infect 2-1
Game 1 i manage to brick wall his glistener elfs with goblin electomancers (his draw wasnt the best) and having two electromancers in play was enough for me to combo him on turn 4. Game 2 we both mul to 5 my hand has 3 bolts so im feeling pretty good. But once the dust settles and we just top decking, his deck is way better at it and he beats me to death with an inkmoth plus become immense. Game 3 I probe him on turn 3 and see he has the kill in hand, so i have to get creative and past in flames to just manage an online ascension and let me recycle a bolt on his unprotected blighted agent. I win the proceeding turn by swinging in with electromancer and forking a couple bolts to his face. This matchup felt really good postboard once i brought in 4 bolts and 3 blood moons.
Things i've learned
1. If there not on white postboard games tend to feel better
2. I still need a ton more practice with the deck
3. Its fun bringing the deck to casual events cause you dont feel pressure to win every matchup because the deck isnt even close to tier 1.
So a few weeks ago with the rise of merfolk i was a strong advocate of affinity being the deck to play. Now it seems to me that affinity hate in the sideboards are at there absolute highest. One game i played against jund, the guy on top of his 3 MD kolaghans also had 2 grudge, the 4th command and 1-2 shatterstorms he jammed in against me. That wasnt an isolated incident either. So my question to you guys is this also happening where you play, is there significantly more hate for us then normal? Or is it specific to my meta. My theory is its because of worlds representing a false meta game.
I just think that its up to the player to decide which of the three they like best. This deck is just so figured out, were often so quick to dismiss voice, ravings or looting depending on what our preference is. I highly recommend the player test playing all 3 first before consulting the forum on which is the best. I mean we are talking about quarter cards and depending on the meta some have the potential to be better then others.
I will admit ravings is most likely the best of the three, but 9 times out of ten the choice on which of the three to play wont decide whether you win or lose. This decks biggest issue is all the maindeck answers a lot of the tier 1 decks have to our 3 win cons (ascension, electromancer, PIF) and our red mana draw spell wont stop our electromancer getting bolted or our ascension getting abrupt decayed etc.
If your meta has no jund faithless looting actually might be the red cantrip of choice for you. Looting goldfishes the fastest kills and tends to only be bad against attrition discard decks. That tends to be why people opt for ravings(or in my case voice) over it.
I find that im often missing colored mana, and its nice to reliably have the colored mana to cast key sideboard cards like thoughseize immediatly. I also like how city doesnt die to a hurkyls like glimmervoid does. Inkmoth just seems like the best one to cut a copy of since it hits them outside of life total alternate to the rest of the deck. Do you think the one city of brass is a terrible idea? Should it just be glimmervoid. I do hate seeing it in the burn matchup
-4 git probe
-4 pyro acension
-2 desperate ravings
-1 past in flames
+4 gifts ungiven
+3 remand
+1 land
+1 empty the warrens
+3 curious homo (or baral) either i feel is fine
i like the haemonculus better though because you can trigger his flip with thought scours arbitrarily, you can tap him for mana before he flips and if your opponent doesnt have bloockers he can half your needed storm count by smashing face.
Also want peoples opinions on sideboarding, i have room in my sideboard for either the madcap experiment combo (4 experiment plus platinum emperion), gifts package with (iona and elesh norn maybe griselbrand?) or 4 copies of thing in the ice. What are your thoughts on which of the three seems more viable? Keep in mind the rest of my sideboard looks like this:
Blood moons
Lightning bolts
Echoing truth
Empty the warrens
Dispels
Hey guys just wanna say that this ban really isnt as bad for you former twin players as a lot of you are making it out to be. Because of the ban you now have 10 or so cards that are now useless garbage (4 twin, 4 deciever, 2 pestermite), but all the money cards and the core power of the deck is still legal and in tact. Perhaps the best method to deal with this ban is to construct a U/R/X tempo/control deck, as twin decks often just turn into this type of strategy after game 1 anyways against certain matchups/ At the end of the day you still have snapcasters, lightning bolts and other amazing cards that are capable of becoming a tier 1 strategy, its just gonna take some adaptation to fill the empty slots that the combo left. I mean the power behind the splinter twin deck was never just the combo in my personal opinion but instead the strong tempo plays that the deck was capable of doing.
in maindecks (kolaghans command comes to mind).
@praisethekappa I cant imagine running less then 4 serum visons in storm ever. Visions is literally the best blue cantrip we have access to, it lets us see the most cards. And its still insane during the combo because its usually getting forked so the second visions will let you draw the card you want after the first visions scry effect. Id go -1 looting and +1 visions. Your gonna find when your not goldfishing and your opponent has ways to attack your hand card disadvantage spells like looting are gonna put you in akward situations where you dont have access to a past in flames and you have no cards in hand.
- Swan song is amazing out of the board to win the blue matchups. I currently have 2 in the board want to find a way to get up to 3.
- Blood moon, while a very predictable game 2 plan out of the board against a lot of decks just gives us free wins too often to not run a min of 3 sb
Also to anyone running the finkel list, i reccomend trying a 2/3 split of desperate ravings and grapeshot maindeck instead. Ive found that the third maindeck grapeshot helps me avoid fizzling moreso then a 3rd ravings did. It also gives you a maindeck edge against decks like affinity, elves, infect etc, you can fire off a turn 2/3 grapeshot for 2-4, wipe there board and buy you 2 turns at minimum. Its really powerful because a lot of those decks are just faster goldfishes then you, especially when you start at a virtual 15 because of our painful manabase and how we want to be casting free probes.
Current sb:
3 blood moon
3 empty
2 shatterstorm
4 bolt
1 echoing truth
I know it makes ad nauseum worse but i can just cut ad nauseum as well and make the deck empty the warrens or PIF + tendrils or bust.
4 lightning bolt
3 blood moon
1 echoing truth
2 shatterstorm
2 swan song
3 empty the warrens
Game 1 vs grixis control 0-2
He gave me till turn 5 with no interaction to kill him but i could find a past in flames, was stuck with a bunch of rituals and lands all game. Game 2 my hand was threatening a turn 2 empty for 8, but it had one land and a sleight of hand. I kept hoping to find the second land but didnt see a second one till turn 5 to my dismay. I cant tell whether or not keepping that hand was the right decision. It was: 3 rituals, fetchland, 2 empty the warrens and a sleight of hand.
Game 2 vs UW control 1-1-1
I keep bricking on lands even though im fetching and getting my electromancers pathed. By the time im ready to kill him he has the counterspells ready. Game 2 I combo off but cant find a grapeshot so i settle for landing a blood moon which shuts him off of his only win con (collonade). I proceed to eventually combo him. Game 3 he turn on leylines me, then turn 2 RIPs. He then procceeds to drop another rip and leyline but cant find a win con. We end up drawing after he answers an empty for 12 with a supreme verdict.
Game 3 vs mono black 2-0
He had no interaction, was running despise over the other, better hand disruption spells, and had no GY hate post board.
Game 4 vs Infect 2-1
Game 1 i manage to brick wall his glistener elfs with goblin electomancers (his draw wasnt the best) and having two electromancers in play was enough for me to combo him on turn 4. Game 2 we both mul to 5 my hand has 3 bolts so im feeling pretty good. But once the dust settles and we just top decking, his deck is way better at it and he beats me to death with an inkmoth plus become immense. Game 3 I probe him on turn 3 and see he has the kill in hand, so i have to get creative and past in flames to just manage an online ascension and let me recycle a bolt on his unprotected blighted agent. I win the proceeding turn by swinging in with electromancer and forking a couple bolts to his face. This matchup felt really good postboard once i brought in 4 bolts and 3 blood moons.
Things i've learned
1. If there not on white postboard games tend to feel better
2. I still need a ton more practice with the deck
3. Its fun bringing the deck to casual events cause you dont feel pressure to win every matchup because the deck isnt even close to tier 1.
I will admit ravings is most likely the best of the three, but 9 times out of ten the choice on which of the three to play wont decide whether you win or lose. This decks biggest issue is all the maindeck answers a lot of the tier 1 decks have to our 3 win cons (ascension, electromancer, PIF) and our red mana draw spell wont stop our electromancer getting bolted or our ascension getting abrupt decayed etc.
2 master of etherium. Your probably right gonna pick up the 4th inkmoth when i can