I have seen Trinisphere suggested in starcity's forum, even maindeck in lieu of Static Orb.
I wouldn't do it in my metagame (too many Tron/Post decks) but I can see how strong it would be against Scepter Chant (play a spell with Scepter, pay 5 :D), Affinity (no more quick Enforcer, Frogmite or Thoughtcast :D), Omelette (err, your whole deck is dead :D) and in a pinch Boros.
Would you think it would be enough to slow down TEPS so that we get the Opposition in time? Especially considering that Trinisphere can come down turn 2 and is not that problematic to UG.
Actually, it appears Planeshifted cards would be rarer but not *that* much.
Let's do some maths.
Planar Chaos will have 165 cards. Assuming that there is as usual for sets this size a number of 55 rares, then we could suppose that 40 would be "normal" and 15 would be "planeshifted" (would make sense to have a 15/15/15 breakdown for the 15 planeshifted cards).
This means that we have a 1/40 chance to get any specific "normal" rare (say red Akroma) in a pack.
The chance of getting any specific planeshifted rare (say Damnation) is then 1/4 (chances of getting a rare vs an uncommon) * 1/15 (chances of getting a given rare) = 1/60
Completely agree with Pronigious.
Titanium's math doesn't make any sense.
If you reason in term of "power points" per pack, basically you can only have 2 assumptions:
1) it doesn't vary between TS and earlier extensions, i.e., whatever the set, each booster holds the same value (basically this means that each card is created equal on average); or
2) it increases for TS (if you assume that rares/purples are usually more powerful than commons).
This is of course not taking into consideration the fact that cards in a given set (say Ravnica) could be more powerful than cards in another set (say Champions) for each rarity. I mean, if we take this into account, we could make it quite complicated...
Note that I speak with authority on statistics because I am quite a good liar (and also have a PhD in Statistics and lecture a stats course at the university - but hey, nobody's perfect)
Finally, you also have to take into account the fact that there are so many viable constructed decks now that it is not so important to get a *specific* card. A while ago, you *had* to have 4 Ravagers, 4 Wrath, etc.
Now, honestly, if you cannot afford 4 Ohran Vipers or 4 Shadowmage Infiltrators, no big deal, you can always play another competitive deck using cards you already have.
Simulacrum is much too slow.
This deck wants HUGE creatures that are very difficult for the opponent to manage. Troll, Kodama, Iwamori and Centaur fill this description. Call of the Herd is fine as well because it comes back.
Simulacrum is really a delayed cantrip here.
The deck rarely wants *tons* of mana, which means that the additional land the Simulacrum fetches is not very useful. Moreover, it needs only G so you cannot even use the Simulacrum to get your splash colour.
Finally a 2/2 for 4 is really subpar compared to the other creatures in the deck.
Keep in mind that Baloth/Hierarch (4/4 for 4, gaining you life) are already subpar...
By the way, once we get the Gruul league, I can see this deck evolving into a new version of Fires. Giving haste to all your creatures could make it a lot more explosive (but the mana base would be too shaky now).
Maybe we will get to see "My Fires, part 24" from Zvi?
I am a bad player. Especially in constructed, where I love to play the "unexpected" deck.
I took Krunk Juice to a PTQ qualifier yesterday (Bern, Switzerland). There were about 115 players and I just missed the top 8 (finished 10th, all the players from 6th to 10th were tied but I had the worst tiebreakers) which contained a lot of good matchups...
Foolishly, I didn't completely follow shokotanmagic's advice. He is right, keep it monogreen. My decklist was similar to the original one, except for:
- the 2 Elephant Guide in the main; I replaced them by a Sword of Light and Shadow (I thought that Ichorid, Slide and Aggro-Rock would get played) and Moldervine Cloak (so that I wouldn't care too much if my bird/elf/etc gets fried in response, resilient to discard as well);
- mana base: replaced 5 Forests by 4 Fetchlands (Windswept Heath, Wooden Foothills, doesn't matter - my goal was to thin the deck) and 1 Temple Garden (see sideboard);
- sideboard: I played 3 Pithing Needle, 2 Arashi, 2 Witness, 3 Naturalize, 1 Seedtime (could find only one), 2 Compost (Tog, Ichorizzo) and 2 Worship (mistake).
Very quick report; I usually forget details...
Round 1: Ponza; 2-0
I regretted my choice of playing fetchlands because Zozu was in play 2nd turn both times. However, as soon as I dropped some fat the game was over.
Round 2: Heartbeat 1-1
He does what he is supposed to do game 1 and comboes me out just the turn before I was going to kill him. It was close because I managed to deprive him of his resources with Claws but he managed to play Fact and turned Early Harvest as the 5th card of the Fact. This allowed him to go off.
Game 2: He mulligans and I beat him up quickly while he stumbles on mana
Game 3: He plays Heartbeat "naked" and I manage in one turn to: play Claws, attack with Nexus, play Chalice for 3 and Naturalize his Heartbeat! I also have 2 mana left for the 2 Claws on the table! I completely lock him with a Chalice at 3 and a Chalice at 2 but cannot find any creature to finish him off (except a Troll that cannot go under a Chalice at 3... :redface:) and he manages to survive until the round is called.
Round 3: Astral Slice 2-0
He mulligans and chokes on his mana on both games. Anyway, in one of them I got Iwamori turn 2 and equip him with a Sword on turn 3!
Round 4: Tooth and Nail 2-1 (or 2-0?)
He does his stuff game 1 ripping off successive Tron parts from the top and then playing a Tooth for Kiki-Titan (without any Top action!).
I am much quicker than him game 2 (thanks to a Moldervine Cloak) and prevent him from Topping with a Needle.
I have a temporary advantage game 3 (3 Call tokens and 1 Troll on the table, 1 Moment's Peace in the 'yard for him - he is at 12) but he has the Tron parts and (allegedly) Titan and Colossus in hand when a spectator notices a card on the floor (Urza's Powerplant) under his chair. We call a judge, my opponent argues that the card fell from the table and that it was in play; I argue I cannot recall him having this in play (he had exactly *one* on each Tron part and there is another Powerplant on the table). After recounting the cards and going through each turn again, the judge establishes he cannot have played the Part (confirmed by a friend who told me he saw him dropping the Plant while resolving a Sylvan Scrying - but the judge did not want to listen to witnesses (who could be biased) anyway). My opponent gets a game (or match?) loss and I get away with a difficult matchup...:wink:
Round 5: Astral Slide 0-2
Bad match-up. It doesn't help that I am mana-screwed game one (1 Land and 1 Bird in initial hand, on the draw - never got any Land/Elf/Bird before he got a Rift active and started shooting me left and right). Game 2, I end up mana-flooded and peck him little by little with a Nexus, until he finishes me with an Eternal Dragon.
Round 6: Boros 2-1
Boros at last. I run him over game 1 with fat and Swords.
I am all happy game 2 coz I have Troll + Worship in initial Hand.
He has a very good start though and when I manage to have Troll + Worship on the table, I am at 5 with no mana left to regenerate. He attacks, brings me to 3, Disenchants the Worship and Lightning Helixes me. So much for Troll + Worship
Game 3, I have also Troll + Worship in hand, but Worship ends up as Mox fodder because I have much better to play... Sword of Light and Shadow!
I end up recurring a Centaur and gaining too many life for him.
Round 7: Boros 2-1
Similar games every time. He has the usual Boros game, I have fat. My fat wins game 1. He wins game 2 with a combination of Lavamancer, burn and a Pulse of the Forge!
Game 3: I have gas in my opening hand. Troll, Worship and Chalice (plus accelerators!). I quickly drop a Chalice for 2 and feel all smug, especially coz I drew a Sword of Light/Shadow. I start thinking "Ha-ha, there I got you locked. No Disenchant for Mr Boros". Unfortunately (doh!), he Pillages my Chalice, Disenchants my Sword and starts getting back in the game (especially since I know he has drawn his only Pulse because he starts being very conscious about both our life scores). Fortunately he cannot find any answer for Troll + Worship before I run him over. I still finish at 1 (should have been exactly 0 without Worship). However, I still don't think it saved me, because had I played any creature, equipment or Cloak instead, I would have killed him one turn earlier.
As mentioned above, I end up 10th and get 3 boosters (and a lot of DCI points) richer for my effort.
My suggestions: my maindeck was fine except for the Temple Garden. Cannot figure out whether deck thinning was very efficient in the end, but I did not really regret it. IMHO Worship was completely unnecessary in the board. Most opponents would side in Disenchant/Naturalize for your equipments anyway so you cannot rely on a Worship lock and you might end up dead when you thought you were safe. Worship might still be an out against some combo-decks though (how can Ichorizzo for instance deal with a Troll + Worship?). Armadillo Cloak could be more useful, but I wouldn't even splash W anymore because Sword of LS might simply be better. I would now only be interested in W because of Kataki, but I didn't play it in the PTQ coz some team-mates needed it more than me, and we were short of them.
Finally, the deck was usually laughed at and was even described before the tournament started as "the worst deck in the room". It got respect from people I played against but not really from other guys...
I even had this funny conversation with one of my team-mates (finished 11th, one of the best Swiss players) after the tournament.
Him: "nice format, I loved my deck (cross between B/W aggro and Miracle-Gro, designed by yours truly) and would play it again anytime. What about you?"
Me: "same for me"
Him "You're kidding? You would play *that* deck again?!? It is so lousy!"
All of that coming from someone I tested with and who I ended up bettering in the tournament (even though, he has like 200 DCI points more than me in composite)
Anyway, good deck and fun to play! For all nay-sayers, test it before you diss it!
Mike Flores has introduced this deck in his article. I now have to prepare for it.
Also, anyone do any testing v. Ichorid? (Note Chalice doesnt stop the ichorid...)
Actually, I did, because I will play one of these two decks for a PTQ on Sunday. Basically, out of 10 games, Krunk won 8 times. Usually a Claws would be there early and sac to remove one key card in Ichorid's graveyard (Troll, Stinkweed, Ichorid itself, etc).
By the time the Icho deck could recover, it would be at "life = not too many" and have a huge green monster looking at it from the other side of the board.
I generally find that the Icho deck is quite sensitive to disruption (I mean graveyard disruption actually like Claws, Wretch or, god forbid, Haunting Echoes) and does not like to see Jitte either.
These early results are for now cementing my choice for Sunday...
About splashing, I am also using White, but only in the board (4 Heaths, 3 Gardens in the maindeck though).
I was mainly thinking about Worship (in addition to Kataki).
Would a Troll/Kodama + Worship lock be enough to contain Affinity and Boros (in addition to respectively Kataki and Hierarch)?
Edit: what about Compost against Dredge in general (Tog or Ichorid)?
No problem, Theif.
There is indeed no way to check my identity and I could well be somebody impersonating the 'News MojoJojo (although it escapes me why anybody would like to pretend being me :tongue2: but that's besides the point ;)).
Anyway, you'll get the confirmation once you hear about Nourishing Shoal.
By the way, for additional comfort, some stupid card names I could not have dreamed of inventing: Three Tragedies and Blinding Powder...
You should hear about them soon...
-> Arcane Sanctum
Battlefield Forge
Caves of Koilos
-> Crumbling Necropolis
-> Jungle Shrine
Llanowar Wastes
-> Savage Lands
-> Seaside Citadel
Shivan Reef
Yavimaya Coast
or the guildgates
-> Azorius GG
Battlefield Forge
Caves of Koilos
-> Dimir GG
-> Gruul GG
Llanowar Wastes
-> Rakdos GG
-> Selesnya GG
Shivan Reef
Yavimaya Coast
Actually, it could also be the bouncelands... but so soon after MM2015?!?
I tried every other allied colour cycle and nothing seems to fit.
Rooting for Mirage lands... in absence of better alternative
I wouldn't do it in my metagame (too many Tron/Post decks) but I can see how strong it would be against Scepter Chant (play a spell with Scepter, pay 5 :D), Affinity (no more quick Enforcer, Frogmite or Thoughtcast :D), Omelette (err, your whole deck is dead :D) and in a pinch Boros.
Would you think it would be enough to slow down TEPS so that we get the Opposition in time? Especially considering that Trinisphere can come down turn 2 and is not that problematic to UG.
Let's do some maths.
Planar Chaos will have 165 cards. Assuming that there is as usual for sets this size a number of 55 rares, then we could suppose that 40 would be "normal" and 15 would be "planeshifted" (would make sense to have a 15/15/15 breakdown for the 15 planeshifted cards).
This means that we have a 1/40 chance to get any specific "normal" rare (say red Akroma) in a pack.
The chance of getting any specific planeshifted rare (say Damnation) is then 1/4 (chances of getting a rare vs an uncommon) * 1/15 (chances of getting a given rare) = 1/60
Edit: Sarnath'd.
Titanium's math doesn't make any sense.
If you reason in term of "power points" per pack, basically you can only have 2 assumptions:
1) it doesn't vary between TS and earlier extensions, i.e., whatever the set, each booster holds the same value (basically this means that each card is created equal on average); or
2) it increases for TS (if you assume that rares/purples are usually more powerful than commons).
This is of course not taking into consideration the fact that cards in a given set (say Ravnica) could be more powerful than cards in another set (say Champions) for each rarity. I mean, if we take this into account, we could make it quite complicated...
Note that I speak with authority on statistics because I am quite a good liar (and also have a PhD in Statistics and lecture a stats course at the university - but hey, nobody's perfect)
Finally, you also have to take into account the fact that there are so many viable constructed decks now that it is not so important to get a *specific* card. A while ago, you *had* to have 4 Ravagers, 4 Wrath, etc.
Now, honestly, if you cannot afford 4 Ohran Vipers or 4 Shadowmage Infiltrators, no big deal, you can always play another competitive deck using cards you already have.
To sum it up, yay! for TS.
This deck wants HUGE creatures that are very difficult for the opponent to manage. Troll, Kodama, Iwamori and Centaur fill this description. Call of the Herd is fine as well because it comes back.
Simulacrum is really a delayed cantrip here.
The deck rarely wants *tons* of mana, which means that the additional land the Simulacrum fetches is not very useful. Moreover, it needs only G so you cannot even use the Simulacrum to get your splash colour.
Finally a 2/2 for 4 is really subpar compared to the other creatures in the deck.
Keep in mind that Baloth/Hierarch (4/4 for 4, gaining you life) are already subpar...
By the way, once we get the Gruul league, I can see this deck evolving into a new version of Fires. Giving haste to all your creatures could make it a lot more explosive (but the mana base would be too shaky now).
Maybe we will get to see "My Fires, part 24" from Zvi?
I am a bad player. Especially in constructed, where I love to play the "unexpected" deck.
I took Krunk Juice to a PTQ qualifier yesterday (Bern, Switzerland). There were about 115 players and I just missed the top 8 (finished 10th, all the players from 6th to 10th were tied but I had the worst tiebreakers) which contained a lot of good matchups...
Foolishly, I didn't completely follow shokotanmagic's advice. He is right, keep it monogreen. My decklist was similar to the original one, except for:
- the 2 Elephant Guide in the main; I replaced them by a Sword of Light and Shadow (I thought that Ichorid, Slide and Aggro-Rock would get played) and Moldervine Cloak (so that I wouldn't care too much if my bird/elf/etc gets fried in response, resilient to discard as well);
- mana base: replaced 5 Forests by 4 Fetchlands (Windswept Heath, Wooden Foothills, doesn't matter - my goal was to thin the deck) and 1 Temple Garden (see sideboard);
- sideboard: I played 3 Pithing Needle, 2 Arashi, 2 Witness, 3 Naturalize, 1 Seedtime (could find only one), 2 Compost (Tog, Ichorizzo) and 2 Worship (mistake).
Very quick report; I usually forget details...
Round 1: Ponza; 2-0
I regretted my choice of playing fetchlands because Zozu was in play 2nd turn both times. However, as soon as I dropped some fat the game was over.
Round 2: Heartbeat 1-1
He does what he is supposed to do game 1 and comboes me out just the turn before I was going to kill him. It was close because I managed to deprive him of his resources with Claws but he managed to play Fact and turned Early Harvest as the 5th card of the Fact. This allowed him to go off.
Game 2: He mulligans and I beat him up quickly while he stumbles on mana
Game 3: He plays Heartbeat "naked" and I manage in one turn to: play Claws, attack with Nexus, play Chalice for 3 and Naturalize his Heartbeat! I also have 2 mana left for the 2 Claws on the table! I completely lock him with a Chalice at 3 and a Chalice at 2 but cannot find any creature to finish him off (except a Troll that cannot go under a Chalice at 3... :redface:) and he manages to survive until the round is called.
Round 3: Astral Slice 2-0
He mulligans and chokes on his mana on both games. Anyway, in one of them I got Iwamori turn 2 and equip him with a Sword on turn 3!
Round 4: Tooth and Nail 2-1 (or 2-0?)
He does his stuff game 1 ripping off successive Tron parts from the top and then playing a Tooth for Kiki-Titan (without any Top action!).
I am much quicker than him game 2 (thanks to a Moldervine Cloak) and prevent him from Topping with a Needle.
I have a temporary advantage game 3 (3 Call tokens and 1 Troll on the table, 1 Moment's Peace in the 'yard for him - he is at 12) but he has the Tron parts and (allegedly) Titan and Colossus in hand when a spectator notices a card on the floor (Urza's Powerplant) under his chair. We call a judge, my opponent argues that the card fell from the table and that it was in play; I argue I cannot recall him having this in play (he had exactly *one* on each Tron part and there is another Powerplant on the table). After recounting the cards and going through each turn again, the judge establishes he cannot have played the Part (confirmed by a friend who told me he saw him dropping the Plant while resolving a Sylvan Scrying - but the judge did not want to listen to witnesses (who could be biased) anyway). My opponent gets a game (or match?) loss and I get away with a difficult matchup...:wink:
Round 5: Astral Slide 0-2
Bad match-up. It doesn't help that I am mana-screwed game one (1 Land and 1 Bird in initial hand, on the draw - never got any Land/Elf/Bird before he got a Rift active and started shooting me left and right). Game 2, I end up mana-flooded and peck him little by little with a Nexus, until he finishes me with an Eternal Dragon.
Round 6: Boros 2-1
Boros at last. I run him over game 1 with fat and Swords.
I am all happy game 2 coz I have Troll + Worship in initial Hand.
He has a very good start though and when I manage to have Troll + Worship on the table, I am at 5 with no mana left to regenerate. He attacks, brings me to 3, Disenchants the Worship and Lightning Helixes me. So much for Troll + Worship
Game 3, I have also Troll + Worship in hand, but Worship ends up as Mox fodder because I have much better to play... Sword of Light and Shadow!
I end up recurring a Centaur and gaining too many life for him.
Round 7: Boros 2-1
Similar games every time. He has the usual Boros game, I have fat. My fat wins game 1. He wins game 2 with a combination of Lavamancer, burn and a Pulse of the Forge!
Game 3: I have gas in my opening hand. Troll, Worship and Chalice (plus accelerators!). I quickly drop a Chalice for 2 and feel all smug, especially coz I drew a Sword of Light/Shadow. I start thinking "Ha-ha, there I got you locked. No Disenchant for Mr Boros". Unfortunately (doh!), he Pillages my Chalice, Disenchants my Sword and starts getting back in the game (especially since I know he has drawn his only Pulse because he starts being very conscious about both our life scores). Fortunately he cannot find any answer for Troll + Worship before I run him over. I still finish at 1 (should have been exactly 0 without Worship). However, I still don't think it saved me, because had I played any creature, equipment or Cloak instead, I would have killed him one turn earlier.
As mentioned above, I end up 10th and get 3 boosters (and a lot of DCI points) richer for my effort.
My suggestions: my maindeck was fine except for the Temple Garden. Cannot figure out whether deck thinning was very efficient in the end, but I did not really regret it. IMHO Worship was completely unnecessary in the board. Most opponents would side in Disenchant/Naturalize for your equipments anyway so you cannot rely on a Worship lock and you might end up dead when you thought you were safe. Worship might still be an out against some combo-decks though (how can Ichorizzo for instance deal with a Troll + Worship?). Armadillo Cloak could be more useful, but I wouldn't even splash W anymore because Sword of LS might simply be better. I would now only be interested in W because of Kataki, but I didn't play it in the PTQ coz some team-mates needed it more than me, and we were short of them.
Finally, the deck was usually laughed at and was even described before the tournament started as "the worst deck in the room". It got respect from people I played against but not really from other guys...
I even had this funny conversation with one of my team-mates (finished 11th, one of the best Swiss players) after the tournament.
Him: "nice format, I loved my deck (cross between B/W aggro and Miracle-Gro, designed by yours truly) and would play it again anytime. What about you?"
Me: "same for me"
Him "You're kidding? You would play *that* deck again?!? It is so lousy!"
All of that coming from someone I tested with and who I ended up bettering in the tournament (even though, he has like 200 DCI points more than me in composite)
Anyway, good deck and fun to play! For all nay-sayers, test it before you diss it!
Actually, I did, because I will play one of these two decks for a PTQ on Sunday. Basically, out of 10 games, Krunk won 8 times. Usually a Claws would be there early and sac to remove one key card in Ichorid's graveyard (Troll, Stinkweed, Ichorid itself, etc).
By the time the Icho deck could recover, it would be at "life = not too many" and have a huge green monster looking at it from the other side of the board.
I generally find that the Icho deck is quite sensitive to disruption (I mean graveyard disruption actually like Claws, Wretch or, god forbid, Haunting Echoes) and does not like to see Jitte either.
These early results are for now cementing my choice for Sunday...
About splashing, I am also using White, but only in the board (4 Heaths, 3 Gardens in the maindeck though).
I was mainly thinking about Worship (in addition to Kataki).
Would a Troll/Kodama + Worship lock be enough to contain Affinity and Boros (in addition to respectively Kataki and Hierarch)?
Edit: what about Compost against Dredge in general (Tog or Ichorid)?
There is indeed no way to check my identity and I could well be somebody impersonating the 'News MojoJojo (although it escapes me why anybody would like to pretend being me :tongue2: but that's besides the point ;)).
Anyway, you'll get the confirmation once you hear about Nourishing Shoal.
By the way, for additional comfort, some stupid card names I could not have dreamed of inventing: Three Tragedies and Blinding Powder...
You should hear about them soon...
Later.
It is "Goblin Cohort" (but there are two "Akki something" in the set).
Finally the green shoal is "Nourishing Shoal". Guess what it does :biggrin3:
And I am still the same MojoJojo who used to be a Rumor Mill hero on 'News.