MTG Salvation

Hey gang. Missed out buying the commander products from last year so im glad im around for it this year.
My lgs has a deal for $27 each on preorder or $125 for all 5. Im buying at least 2.

-Saskia the unyielding - for my lady. she uses Radha, heir to keld right now so this is right up her wheel house. We may even just turn both into one. We will see.

-Breya, Etherium Shaper- Seems really cool and i do not have an artifact centered commander yet. I also love the challenge of building an edh deck without green. Will be my first one to actually stay built lol

for my third one im thinking Atraxa, Praetors' Voice but im not sold on it.

Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis just seems weird to me. like it wants to be group hug but not really. I'm not even sure how to evaluate it honestly so if people wanna help me out im totally cool with that.

I thought I was going to buy Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder but the deck they built around just seems wrong to me so I may just buy him and build around him with what I have for my Surrak Dragonclaw and go from there. Do people agree or am i evaluating it wrong?

What are some peoples thoughts on the decks or singles. What are you buying? Help me decide if im buying more than just 2 lol

I LOVE Yidris, but i dislike the deck that they have built around him. Does anyone else feel this way?

definitely not decided on sideboard. Was hoping to make room for disdainful stroke, and/or some deflecting palm

loving the assbusting this thread is doing lately. THAT is why this thread is awesome This is my list that ill be taking to modern probably next week once my back gets better.
Stormchaser does some serious work for my build. Jeff H inspired me to take this route, but i like the inclusion of my paths to take care of stuff like Finks, Mattery reshaper, goyf and kalitus, PRIMEVAL TITAN, the list can go on and on.

Quote from StevomatUWR »

Quote from Rutherjc19 »

How do you like pillar in the main? Do you ever wish it was a forked bolt? And does the exile clause come up being relevant?

I like them as Bolt no. 5 & 6 which can also target the opponent. Good to get rid of mana dorks and pesky creatures like Bob, Ooze or Grim Flayer. I prefer them over Forked Bolt since they get rid of Matter Reshaper, Kitchen Finks and dredge deck creatures for good. If the opponent doesn't play such threats, then they're an easy choice to board out.

Thats a good point with finks! More importantly Reshaper. Bant Eldrazi is pretty hyped right now. Also helps with dredge if you catch any enablers other than prized amalgam.

Quote from StevomatUWR »

Hi guys. Sorry that I didn't post so often lately, but I am in Japan for 6 weeks and I have been busy traveling. November I am working in Tokyo and yesterday I went to the Hareruya tournament center to play against Japanese players. Not comparable to Berlin. This center here in Tokyo is huge. There were over 100 players playing when I went there. How is this all related to Jeskai you ask? Well, I managed to go 3:0 against three Japanese players yesterday with my Jeskai deck
Here's what I played for reference:

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Land (20) 2x Arid Mesa 1x Cavern of Souls 1x Clifftop Retreat 3x Flooded Strand 1x Hallowed Fountain 1x Island 1x Mountain 1x Plains 1x Sacred Foundry 3x Scalding Tarn 1x Seachrome Coast 1x Spirebluff Canal 1x Steam Vents 1x Sulfur Falls 1x Wandering Fumarole	2x Emerge Unscathed 4x Lightning Bolt 3x Lightning Helix 1x Mutagenic Growth 3x Path to Exile 2x Remand 1x Negate 1x Blessed Alliance 1x Jeskai Charm 4x Delver of Secrets 3x Geist of Saint Traft 4x Monastery Swiftspear 4x Snapcaster Mage	2x Pillar of Flame 3x Serum Visions 2x Slip Through Space

I am still on the classic route without Reveler and Saheeli, but the deck is doing good work. Wasn't facing any T1 decks yesterday though. Match-ups were: 4C Doubling Season Walkers, Blue Moon and RG Land Destruction. So I was actually lucky enough to beat two decks that attacked my mana base with a 3-colored deck
The win against Blue Moon was pretty cool. He had a Master and one token and attacked me, when I used Deflecting Palm on the Master and snapped it back on the token and then pumped his Master with Mutagenic Growth to kill him with his own creatures.
Since the question came up: I think a 1-of Mutagenic Growth is awesome in this deck. It makes Monastery Swiftspear 4/5 and let's him block almost anything, and it can be flashed back "for free" with Snappy.

How do you like pillar in the main? Do you ever wish it was a forked bolt? And does the exile clause come up being relevant?

Quote from Mazereon »

I do Have to say one thing, you guys are awesome! The activity right now is insane and I really like it, keep it up!

I was kind off bussy the last days so I couldn't contribute as much as I would have liked to, sorry for that.

After playtesting yesterday I came to the conclusion that I have to change the deck, I just wasn't able to close out games at all or was so far behind that I couldn't come back anymore.
Except for the jund match I Steam rolled him with saheeli and chandra doing massive work.
Initially I was on the verge of dropping the deck, or at least changing it to geist control but reading through the last 2 pages gave me hope again.
Delver will be a 4 of again in the deck and geist will go up to 3 with a total of 19 Lands.
I did go down on 2 spell snares and moved them to the side, as you suggested I will try helix as a 2 off.

As 1CMC cards go, what do you think of mutagenic growth it could do some serious work and could be on double duty, defensive and offensive wise. Maybe as 3 copies?

Playing Elsbeth can give us a way to stall out and go aggro at the same time, I really love her

I would not try mutagenic growth without prowess creatures but thats just me. Just protecting a Delver is better suited for counter magic than that, but for geist just make him unblockable or the u/w enchantment that gives him +2+2 and flying lol
Post that decklist. Lets talk about what went wrong and what you liked!

Quote from RafiqEDH »

Quote from Rutherjc19 »

Quote from RafiqEDH »

Quote from CurdBros »

[quote from="RafiqEDH »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/592647-jeskai-prowess-aggro-tempo-the-jeskai-way?comment=1627"]

Hey Curd, I am not sure if it is a 50% ratio for loosing or not however alot of the time i am loosing it is to Jank which does make it harder to figure out why i am loosing. Here are some points i have noticed and my current list.

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creature 4 Delver of Secrets 3 Young Pyromancer 2 Snapcaster Mage 3 Geist of Saint Traft 2 Bedlam Reveler Instant/Sorcery 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Path to Exile 1 Spell Snare 3 Lightning Helix 4 Remand 4 Serum Visions 4 Gitaxian Probe 2 Slip Through Space	Planeswalker 1 Saheeli Rai 1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance Land 3 Polluted Delta 3 Flooded Strand 1 Bloodstained Mire 2 Hallowed Fountain 2 Steam Vents 2 Spirebluff Canal 1 Glacial Fortress 1 Island 1 Plains 2 Mountain

So Snapcaster, and Bedlam i rarely ever see in a game, and the odd time i get my Pyromancer... essentially leaving me relying on just Delver and Geist.. The problem here is since we are not Legacy i do not have enough / the right tools in my deck to actively protect Delver from spot removal, and if a creature with more then 3 toughness hits the board Geist is now useless unless i draw a path.. the upside is if it is just Geist and day Goyf online my opponent will avoid attacking to keep him at bay. We also cannot be adding to much countermagic to our deck as the best ones in modern cost alot of mana (Cryptic Command) and others as very situational.. not to mention the non-bo of having to many counters for Bedlam Reveler

Even with 18 land i am hit or miss, there are games (probably about 75%) where i am so much mana that by the end of the game i have like 7+ land on the field.. and about 15% of the games i have 2 land and 10% i have perfect and get enough land to play on curve and win quick. Ideal for us would be to have 4 - 5 land and be winning the game (with the exclusions of if we get pathed)

Spell Snare i thought would be great but i guess i was looking at a broader spectrum.. I generally don't see much at 2CMC in my meta unless the 1 jund player is around (which is not often) it works ok-ish against the UW control player to counter his counters and is just terrible against Infect and Jank (our meta jank usually has some sort of Emrakul or Kiki combo, or Archangel combo)

Saheeli Rai.. i really want her in the deck she is powerful for every reason you said above, i just have not gotten the chance to use her on a Bedlam except for once, never on a snapcaster.. usually on a fliped delver... which dont get me wrong is still an amazing extra 3pts of damage. and Her scry is wonderful.. maybe i just dont get her at good times in the match.

I wont switch to Grixis as i originally started / built this deck for Geist (Delver was just a nice add), i wanted a deck for him and Grixis takes that away and Esper is just bad.

one card that is very consostant to it's power level is Chandra I am never sad to draw into her. I have used her to destroy a creature i couldn't with a bolt, i have used her for extra 2 dmg, and got her ultimate once.

Also to note, i am very consistant in getting a Delver T1... not so consistant in it flipping T2 tho.

I really cannot figure out what causes me to loose.

Get ready for a LONG read. Also know that I do not mean to be harsh or offensive in anything I say. I like to get to the point on things, and I can feel your frustration. I wanna help you, so you're going to get the whole shabang lol
Also if people would like to question my analysis of some cards or add to it, or even disagree completely, lets do it. my brain is working on full power today and Im ready to fire away at the keyboard lol

Next time you play, take very specific notes. Because either the deck isn't tuned right, variance is out to get you, or you are playing plan A, but arent adapting your gameplay when you need to make a plan for C/D/E.
I'm not questioning your skills. Adapting to when you know to hold the horses or crank the pressure is a very hard skill that even pro magic players struggle with.
I'm going to go over the deck in my opinion. Feel free to fire back if you disagree on anything.
The appeal of this style is for some to be both proactive and reactive, with creatures and spells. The problem is when you have the reactive spell package with the wrong proactive creatures or visa versa, things get discombobulated and the deck doesnt run smoothly. I think your deck is a little confused on what it wants to be, so lets crank it down

Geist, Reveler, and planeswalkers

- Geist, we should drop him to the board or optimize your deck to make geist connect efficiently. My deck runs very smoothly without Geist mainboard, but my deck runs way more threats than yours does.
- Chandra seems very midrangy to me, but thats not a bad thing. She seems to be good in this style of deck, but we gotta give her a better shell or drop her.
- Sahili seems better in more aggressive builds with more threats or burn, same with Reveler. Great when you burn them, drop him and draw 3, more threats and burn spells. He's great in prowess builds because they have hasty creatures usually such as Stormchaser or Swiftspear, or combo U/R builds because they can cycle through 6 spells a turn with him and make him or another prowess creature (or Kiln Fiend) huge. With the counter magic, you dont wanna dump those, your cards hold a little more of a timing value, a positive and negative. So we either need to drop him or optimize your deck to run him. I don't like running him alongside Geist mainboard. They scream different deck styles and deck plans. I ran Reveler Main and geist side, but again, different deck styles.
- elspeth, knight errant is geist's best friend, FOR REAL and highly undervalued i think in modern. Now sometimes she wont seem the best if the meta is super fast, but thats what deck optimization and sideboards are for. This was the BEST geist list I have ever piloted. seriously it is disgusting when you line up geist on t3 and elspeth on t4.

Slip through Space- I don't like it here. Slip is much better in a harder prowess build that focuses on spell count or prowess creatures that can spam multiple cards in one turn for big damage. Your deck does NOT need this card. You have 2 prowess creatures in the 75. An unblocked geist for 1 turn just isn't worth this card. Even in my prowess heavy build, I dropped it from my list because there were better things I could be doing. If your deck is doing what it's supposed to do, most of the time they wont have a threat to play to block geist efficiently.

Remand- Remand has been getting worse it seems in most people's meta, especially mine. Affinity, Infect, DREDGE, Burn/Zoo variants, hell even Jund, all have seemed to have taken an upswing lately, at least from where Im sitting. Scapeshift/Valakut decks have also seen an uptick, but remand still are not optimal spells in this match up. So just be aware that you could possibly try Unsubstantiate in a heavy prowess build, or even cut down on some remand for threats or Spell pierce or another protection spell such as Emerge unscathed (this card for more heavier builds on low curve threats or prowess creatures i feel like or sideboard, but sideboard does not seem good to me lol)

Spell Snare- Again, this feels reactive, and only 1 I dont like. this should probably just be another threat card.

Young Pyromancer - I like him. I always have. The problem is, it just doesn't fit I feel like. More snaps alongside more spells, and some other deck changes I think its good. Hell ive always wanted ojutai's command alongside pyro and/or jace, vryn's prodigy, that just seems soooo good. I could get behind a list running pyromancers and bedlam revelers, that seems sweet and awesome.

I also love reading over Cbros creature evaluation. I think its great.

Delver of Secrets - The classic blue tempo one drop. No creature in the history of the game has provided more damage for tempo decks. He can flip on turn two and provide an evasive (flying) 3/2 insect beater that can do enough damage to end the game on his own.

Monastery Mentor- Jeskai’s front line attacker. Mentor is a prime definition of what we are trying to accomplish. It is buffed by all of our spells and can attack early and often.

Stormchaser Mage - Prowess, Flying, AND Haste...what's not to love? The 1 power can be a downside, but cards like Twisted Image can make this a powerful option (and the 3 toughness means any spell puts the Mage out of bolt range. Very few decks want 4 copies of this card, but it is a great addition to multiple Jeskia Prowess decks based on pure power, efficiency, speed, and evasion.

Kiln Fiend - This elemental can do all the damage needed by its self. Although Kiln Fiend is less evasive than some of the other options in the deck, it makes up for this with sheer power. It is buffed an additional +3 with every instant/sorcery spell we cast and when it becomes unblockable, it often ends the game on its own.

Snapcaster Mage - Snapcaster Mage is possibly the best creature in modern and is almost assuredly the best blue creature in modern. He offers card advantage in a single card. Simply the best source of card advantage a creature can offer. He is an honorary Jeskai member.

Geist of Saint Traft - My personal favorite creature and a favorite of tempo player’s since his induction. Hexproof gives Geist the ultimate protection from removal spells. In addition, he offers the most efficient source of damage a three drop can offer (he attacks for 6 damage with the angel). His only weakness is his 2/2 stats. However, in this deck he is often unblockable or protected from the colors of the opponents deck all but removing his only weakness. He is possibly the best creature for this deck.

Other options:

Mantis Rider - A powerful and evasive Jeskai beater is exactly what we are looking for in this deck. If your meta calls for a few more threats the insect riding monk is a super option. He is the definition of an efficient creature- 3/3 flyier with vigiliance and haste for only three mana fits the tone of the Jeskai Way perfectly.

Young Pyromancer - This young fire starter synergizes wonderfully with a deck full of instants and sorceries. While the pyromancer doesn’t fit into the more aggressive strategy , she fits wonderfully in the more control/tempo oriented Monastery Mentor Jeskai Way deck that will be presented later.

Monastery Mentor - The mentor and teacher of the Jeskai Clan. He teaches the jeskai way to the future tempo creatures of the world. He has the single best synergy with a deck full of non-creature spells and can take control of a game all by himself. He can be included in exchange for Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest if you want a slightly more controlled top end. He is also the central focus of the Monastery Mentor Jeskai Way deck.

Grim Lavamancer - This red wizard offers a large amount of value and efficiency to the deck. By allowing us to utilize the large amount of low costed spells in our graveyard as additional damage/removal, he is as efficient as they come. While he may be a little slow for the unblockable version (which may not be the case), he fits perfectly into the more controlling Monastery Mentor version of the deck

Ill be back later with more stuff probably. Im gettin hungry and a smoothie sounds REALLY good right now lol

</blockquote>

Quote from CurdBros »

Quote from RafiqEDH »

Quote from CurdBros »

That sucks if your losing lately. If you're losing consistently then I would definitely not keeping playing the deck as it is. Now matter how fun a deck is to play, it's not fun to lose often. You really shouldn't be losing consistently. I have heard many times on other deck topics on these boards that a certain deck has a 75% win rate or something like that. If those players were being honest then a 60% win rate is actually respectable. If think in modern if you really spend time mastering a deck you can achieve a 60-65% win rate with the deck against most players. Especially those who change decks a lot. If you losing 50% of your games or more you may want to try something different (a different version of the deck or another shard like grixis).

One thing I have said before and that I truly believe is that an aggro/control and/or tempo deck is the hardest archetype in modern to play well. This is mainly due to the fact that the deck is made up of different parts like you said above (threats, protection, interaction). You can draw all of your cantrips and non of your threats which sucks, but comes with the territory. You trade draw consistency for percentage points in most matchups. There are very few dead matchups with a jeskai aggro/control or tempo deck, but the deck is not as consistent as a midrange jund deck. Whereas Jund will always be consistent, it will always have a terrible tron matchup as well as others. Ryan Overturf talked about this in his last article as well (however his deck is more controlling).

This is also the reason that I am very happy that we got Bedlam Reveler and Saheeli Rai lately. If gives the deck a fighting chance in games we are behind. This is also why I run Geist because he adds pure power to the deck.

What typically happens when you lose?
What matchups are you struggling against?

I hope we can help or at minimum get you to a deck you like or archetype you like.


On the Saheeli Rai topic, she definitely fits a very specific style of deck. I'm not sure what you are running currently, but would love to see your deck. She may be better as a Monastery Mentor if your running a more controlling deck. Can you post your current list? Thanks Rafiq. Hopefully we can help.

Hey Curd, I am not sure if it is a 50% ratio for loosing or not however alot of the time i am loosing it is to Jank which does make it harder to figure out why i am loosing. Here are some points i have noticed and my current list.

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creature 4 Delver of Secrets 3 Young Pyromancer 2 Snapcaster Mage 3 Geist of Saint Traft 2 Bedlam Reveler Instant/Sorcery 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Path to Exile 1 Spell Snare 3 Lightning Helix 4 Remand 4 Serum Visions 4 Gitaxian Probe 2 Slip Through Space	Planeswalker 1 Saheeli Rai 1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance Land 3 Polluted Delta 3 Flooded Strand 1 Bloodstained Mire 2 Hallowed Fountain 2 Steam Vents 2 Spirebluff Canal 1 Glacial Fortress 1 Island 1 Plains 2 Mountain

So Snapcaster, and Bedlam i rarely ever see in a game, and the odd time i get my Pyromancer... essentially leaving me relying on just Delver and Geist.. The problem here is since we are not Legacy i do not have enough / the right tools in my deck to actively protect Delver from spot removal, and if a creature with more then 3 toughness hits the board Geist is now useless unless i draw a path.. the upside is if it is just Geist and day Goyf online my opponent will avoid attacking to keep him at bay. We also cannot be adding to much countermagic to our deck as the best ones in modern cost alot of mana (Cryptic Command) and others as very situational.. not to mention the non-bo of having to many counters for Bedlam Reveler

Even with 18 land i am hit or miss, there are games (probably about 75%) where i am so much mana that by the end of the game i have like 7+ land on the field.. and about 15% of the games i have 2 land and 10% i have perfect and get enough land to play on curve and win quick. Ideal for us would be to have 4 - 5 land and be winning the game (with the exclusions of if we get pathed)

Spell Snare i thought would be great but i guess i was looking at a broader spectrum.. I generally don't see much at 2CMC in my meta unless the 1 jund player is around (which is not often) it works ok-ish against the UW control player to counter his counters and is just terrible against Infect and Jank (our meta jank usually has some sort of Emrakul or Kiki combo, or Archangel combo)

Saheeli Rai.. i really want her in the deck she is powerful for every reason you said above, i just have not gotten the chance to use her on a Bedlam except for once, never on a snapcaster.. usually on a fliped delver... which dont get me wrong is still an amazing extra 3pts of damage. and Her scry is wonderful.. maybe i just dont get her at good times in the match.

I wont switch to Grixis as i originally started / built this deck for Geist (Delver was just a nice add), i wanted a deck for him and Grixis takes that away and Esper is just bad.

one card that is very consostant to it's power level is Chandra I am never sad to draw into her. I have used her to destroy a creature i couldn't with a bolt, i have used her for extra 2 dmg, and got her ultimate once.

Also to note, i am very consistant in getting a Delver T1... not so consistant in it flipping T2 tho.

I really cannot figure out what causes me to loose.

Ok. I see the main difference here. Our decks are very similar, however, I run Monastery Swiftspear where you run Young Pyromancer. This makes a giant difference in terms of the speed of the game. This is likely why you are drawing so many lands so often because your getting much later in the game before killing the opponent. Swiftspear gives the deck another early threat that an aggro/control or tempo deck desperately needs.

Now that I see that difference better I can make much better recommendation for the deck.

It seems like the deck is a little stuck between two ideas. Young Pyromancer is typically better in a deck with a ton of cantrips and/or counter magic/disruption. On the other hand, Monastery Swiftspear is better with more burn spells, pump spells, and unblockable spells. I always liked that monastery swiftspear gave me another viable target for the Distortion Strikes and Slip Through Spaces besides Geist of Saint Traft.

If you like the Young Pyromancer style then you could go more towards the midrange/controlling aspect. If so I would cut one Lightning Helix, the two Slip Through Spaces, the Spell Snare and one Geist of Saint Traft. Then you could add a Spell Pierce, and a Monastery Mentor, Emerge Unscathed, and two Vapor Snags or one snag and one Unsubstantiate. That way the deck plays a bit more of a controlling game that protects the threats and puts out a lot of tokens. In addition, you could putGeist of Saint Traft in the sideboard and play Spell Queller. Something like this:

Creatures (15)
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Spell Queller
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Bedlam Reveler
1 Monastery Mentor

Spells (25)
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
3 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
1 Vapor Snag
1 Emerge Unscathed
1 Unsubstantiate

Planeswalker (2)
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Lands 18- 60 cards, 19- 61 cards

If you wanted to go a bit more controlling you could go 19 lands and add a Cryptic Command or Electrolyze instead of Unsubstaniate.


If you prefer the more aggressive approach you would likely have to cut young pryomancer and 1 path to exile for for monastery swiftspear and play something similar to my deck (of course tweaked to your own personal preference). Another option you could play a more burn oriented approach like the one Hoogland was playing with Mantis Rider.

From what I remember, you are a an of Geist of Saint Traft. If so, your a man of my own heart :). Luckily he fits well into both midrange/control and aggro, I just personally believe he is utilized best in the more aggressive version.

Let us know what way you want to go and hopefully we can help you get to a deck you really love to play and also win consistently.

I like all of the suggestions for help so far thank you all.

So 1 thing that has come up consistant between all 3 of you is to add more Snapcaster... Unfortunately this is not an option. Snapcaster is very expensive atm sitting at $58(CDN) right now.. i know in comparison to other top end decks and such this is just a minor expense however it is not within my budget.. even my lands and such that i do have in the deck are cheaper alternative to the optimal lands and have taken me months to acquire what i have, also as i said earlier i still am using 1 proxied snapcaster atm as i still have not purchased my 2nd copy.

Curdbros - you are correct, I am a Geist of Saint Traft man, he is my boy and the main reason i built this deck over another so removing him is not something i will ever do. I originally made the switch from Swiftspear to Pyromancer as with my meta swiftspear wasn't doing enough. Maybe because i did not have enough spells to chain but the best it ever did was 3dmg and 3dmg from the bolt that triggered prowess.. I just found that it wasn't pulling it's weight in my deck. Pyromancer when i have gotten them have done their job.. When i beat Bant Eldrazi the other day i had 8 tokens just from playing the removal game against their threats. I am also surprised you suggested to cut Saheeli Rai in favor of Elspeth, Knight Errant as i know how much you truly enjoy Rai.

Slip Through Space if i was to cut this card am i not hindering myself even more if they have more threats? or is this the reason why i would be adding in the vapor snags instead so i have even more removal for the board?

Cryptic Command is a beast of a card there is no denying this, but a 4CMC counterspell isn't that a little to hard to run in our deck? I do not have much thought on ELectrolyze as it was in my original build when i played the enchantments and took it out and haven't looked back.

Spell Queller i have a 1-of in my sideboard for the few deck's i can use him against.. however like i said with my meta Jank is very previlant and Jank means Emrakul, The Aeons Torn or Through the Breach or Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker... all of which i cannot be quelled.

</blockquote>


dont forget about my response to you and also, spell queller is not a card that is a one of in the sideboard. spell queller is a 2+ of mainboard or none at all i feel like lol the appeal of it is to hit it on the earlier turns to hit something that it can ACTUALLY hit and be relevant. you said there are decks that are either jank or through the breach decks or kiki decks. i KNOW they run stuff that can be quelled you just have to play enough to see them early frequently.

vendilion clique, THATS a good one of in the main or side.

also you keep mentioning snapcaster is 56 dollars...but.. its not lol i can buy them all day for 35-42 bucks, some even lower. look on tcg player RIGHT now, they are dropping like crazy for some reason and now is the perfect time to get another one. I understand budget constraints, believe me, it took me a long time and a lucky collection to get myself into modern. but know they arent as expensive as you think. hell even scalding tarns are dropping, i bought my last 2 for 63 and 65 bucks. there was a playset of italian ones for 64 bucks each, thats insanely awesome.

Quote from RafiqEDH »

Quote from CurdBros »

[quote from="RafiqEDH »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/592647-jeskai-prowess-aggro-tempo-the-jeskai-way?comment=1627"]

Hey Curd, I am not sure if it is a 50% ratio for loosing or not however alot of the time i am loosing it is to Jank which does make it harder to figure out why i am loosing. Here are some points i have noticed and my current list.

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creature 4 Delver of Secrets 3 Young Pyromancer 2 Snapcaster Mage 3 Geist of Saint Traft 2 Bedlam Reveler Instant/Sorcery 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Path to Exile 1 Spell Snare 3 Lightning Helix 4 Remand 4 Serum Visions 4 Gitaxian Probe 2 Slip Through Space	Planeswalker 1 Saheeli Rai 1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance Land 3 Polluted Delta 3 Flooded Strand 1 Bloodstained Mire 2 Hallowed Fountain 2 Steam Vents 2 Spirebluff Canal 1 Glacial Fortress 1 Island 1 Plains 2 Mountain

So Snapcaster, and Bedlam i rarely ever see in a game, and the odd time i get my Pyromancer... essentially leaving me relying on just Delver and Geist.. The problem here is since we are not Legacy i do not have enough / the right tools in my deck to actively protect Delver from spot removal, and if a creature with more then 3 toughness hits the board Geist is now useless unless i draw a path.. the upside is if it is just Geist and day Goyf online my opponent will avoid attacking to keep him at bay. We also cannot be adding to much countermagic to our deck as the best ones in modern cost alot of mana (Cryptic Command) and others as very situational.. not to mention the non-bo of having to many counters for Bedlam Reveler

Even with 18 land i am hit or miss, there are games (probably about 75%) where i am so much mana that by the end of the game i have like 7+ land on the field.. and about 15% of the games i have 2 land and 10% i have perfect and get enough land to play on curve and win quick. Ideal for us would be to have 4 - 5 land and be winning the game (with the exclusions of if we get pathed)

Spell Snare i thought would be great but i guess i was looking at a broader spectrum.. I generally don't see much at 2CMC in my meta unless the 1 jund player is around (which is not often) it works ok-ish against the UW control player to counter his counters and is just terrible against Infect and Jank (our meta jank usually has some sort of Emrakul or Kiki combo, or Archangel combo)

Saheeli Rai.. i really want her in the deck she is powerful for every reason you said above, i just have not gotten the chance to use her on a Bedlam except for once, never on a snapcaster.. usually on a fliped delver... which dont get me wrong is still an amazing extra 3pts of damage. and Her scry is wonderful.. maybe i just dont get her at good times in the match.

I wont switch to Grixis as i originally started / built this deck for Geist (Delver was just a nice add), i wanted a deck for him and Grixis takes that away and Esper is just bad.

one card that is very consostant to it's power level is Chandra I am never sad to draw into her. I have used her to destroy a creature i couldn't with a bolt, i have used her for extra 2 dmg, and got her ultimate once.

Also to note, i am very consistant in getting a Delver T1... not so consistant in it flipping T2 tho.

I really cannot figure out what causes me to loose.

Get ready for a LONG read. Also know that I do not mean to be harsh or offensive in anything I say. I like to get to the point on things, and I can feel your frustration. I wanna help you, so you're going to get the whole shabang lol
Also if people would like to question my analysis of some cards or add to it, or even disagree completely, lets do it. my brain is working on full power today and Im ready to fire away at the keyboard lol

Next time you play, take very specific notes. Because either the deck isn't tuned right, variance is out to get you, or you are playing plan A, but arent adapting your gameplay when you need to make a plan for C/D/E.
I'm not questioning your skills. Adapting to when you know to hold the horses or crank the pressure is a very hard skill that even pro magic players struggle with.
I'm going to go over the deck in my opinion. Feel free to fire back if you disagree on anything.
The appeal of this style is for some to be both proactive and reactive, with creatures and spells. The problem is when you have the reactive spell package with the wrong proactive creatures or visa versa, things get discombobulated and the deck doesnt run smoothly. I think your deck is a little confused on what it wants to be, so lets crank it down

Geist, Reveler, and planeswalkers
Slip through Space- I don't like it here. Slip is much better in a harder prowess build that focuses on spell count or prowess creatures that can spam multiple cards in one turn for big damage. Your deck does NOT need this card. You have 2 prowess creatures in the 75. An unblocked geist for 1 turn just isn't worth this card. Even in my prowess heavy build, I dropped it from my list because there were better things I could be doing. If your deck is doing what it's supposed to do, most of the time they wont have a threat to play to block geist efficiently.

Remand- Remand has been getting worse it seems in most people's meta, especially mine. Affinity, Infect, DREDGE, Burn/Zoo variants, hell even Jund, all have seemed to have taken an upswing lately, at least from where Im sitting. Scapeshift/Valakut decks have also seen an uptick, but remand still are not optimal spells in this match up. So just be aware that you could possibly try Unsubstantiate in a heavy prowess build, or even cut down on some remand for threats or Spell pierce or another protection spell such as Emerge unscathed (this card for more heavier builds on low curve threats or prowess creatures i feel like or sideboard, but sideboard does not seem good to me lol)

Spell Snare- Again, this feels reactive, and only 1 I dont like. this should probably just be another threat card.

Young Pyromancer - I like him. I always have. The problem is, it just doesn't fit I feel like. More snaps alongside more spells, and some other deck changes I think its good. Hell ive always wanted ojutai's command alongside pyro and/or jace, vryn's prodigy, that just seems soooo good. I could get behind a list running pyromancers and bedlam revelers, that seems sweet and awesome.

I also love reading over Cbros creature evaluation. I think its great.


Ill be back later with more stuff probably. Im gettin hungry and a smoothie sounds REALLY good right now lol

Quote from D90Dennis14 »

Interesting read.

I wonder why not just go with Delver of Secrets over Mantis Rider which is much easier to cast (fewer lands and colors), is another turn 1 play and has the same damage output.

Bedlam Reveler over some of the Snapcaster Mages might be a decent idea as well.

Delver you have to build around though. Mantis Rider is a hasty flyer who never starts as a 1/1 lol
If you mutagenic growth a delver unflipped it still dies to Lightning Bolt. Mantis rider laughs and keeps on coming. Also Rider feels like a much better top deck than Delver.

Quote from RafiqEDH »

Quote from CurdBros »

Quote from Mazereon »

I myself am running a pretty similar version and I am pretty interested in this list.
The 4 paths are very interesting from my point of view, because as you mentioned the deck seems more mid-rangy and versus abzan/jund giving them extra mana can be very devastating for us.

The lack of pyromancer does confuse me although, I see mentor dealing more damage, but pyro comes out one turn earlier and can be protected.
What are your thoughts on this one?

I was a bit surprised with the list when I first saw it as well. Especially running only 19 lands with seven 3 cmc spells not including 3 snapcasters and bedlam reveler which are often at least 3 cmc spells. So there is a total of 13 spells that cost 3 CMC or more and an additional nine 2 CMC spells. The deck has twenty 1 CMC spells (including gitaxian probe).

Playing more powerful cards also mitigates the downside of Path to Exile. He can run 4 paths because he can top deck so many powerful cards. In addition, the builder runs only Remand as his counter magic spell of choice. Without Mana Leak and Spell Pierce, path is more effective as well. I assume if the game stays close it can end very quickly with a geist or mentor on the board especially powered by a mentor. I was just thinking how well mentor works with Saheeli Rai's second ability. I am super excited to add a mentor to my sideboard for grindy matchups.

I prefer to be slightly more aggressive than this deck, but for anyone who prefers to be slightly more midrange or for anyone who has a lot of jund/abzan in their meta and very little combo/tron, this is probably the best version of the deck you could run. You can't argue with results and this deck won the entire event so obviously it has some legs. I am excited to see what everyone on here comes up with after seeing this build.

Jeskai prowess is looking great right now!

I completely agree, the fact of only using Remand as the counter magic helps the 4-of Path to Exile I run the same thing. Leak and Spell PIerce are just horrible with Path there is nothing around that, atleast with the remand while they may recast what they use we got a cantrip out of it and tapped some mana (which against a control shell is a turning point) If i can make my opponant tap out to play the same spell twice i can easily turn the corner, or we have a UW control player in our meta, if i can counter his Cryptic back to his hand and force him to play it again or wait, i can play around knowing it is there it helps so much.

Personally i have found with my deck list that Snapcaster is not as large of a threat, i will not deny that there have been games that he has helped with a snap-bolt, or remand etc in the late game. I was however suggested by another player to switch out Snapcaster for Monastery Mentor... they do not do anything close to the same ability so im not sure why it came up.. I would guess because i am casting it the same time as i would a Snapcaster most times and it generate more board presence? I dunno. What do you guys think about the switch? My list doesnt run a full play set of snapcaster which may also contribute to why people have suggested switching... Not sure i agree. what is everyone's thoughts.

I would never completely switch the 2, because they can serve different roles and different purposes. Snapcaster has WAY more flexibility to it though, and is can only be as good as your spell package. If all you run is cantrips and bolts, then thats the most Snapcaster can ever bring you.
If you run a mixture or 1-2 of's, Snap brings more flexibility to the game due to the nature of the graveyard. Also, just because he isn't flashy, doesnt mean he isnt good. On t3, if i have to snap flash serum visions or probe, to give myself a draw and give 2 swiftspears prowess, thats pretty freaking good. Depending on the deck they will either removal spell snap, get hit with him, or you leave it back to block a goyf or others. ALL of those can be VERY good for a deck such as ours that can run out of gas, or needs an extra push for the right sideboard card. I think getting rid of Snap would be a huge mistake. 2 cents lol

Every time I go less than a full playset of path to exiles, I always find myself wishing i had just ONE more, like almost every game. Maybe it's a meta thing, but my next version will probably run a full playset. Dealing with kitchen finks, Primeval Titan, 4+ toughness Goyfs, Rhinos! All relevant creatures you'd much rather path than Vapor snag, but i will run vapor snag as well, card is sooo good for tempo plays.

Quote from CurdBros »

I have a lot to get too and thanks for the amazing posts RutherJC and Mazeron. I will get to them shortly, but I had to let everyone know that Jeff Hoogland brought Jeskai Aggro to the SCG event and was on camera last round. I'm sure he will be on camera again!

I noticed im super excited! I just ordered my mantos riders. Im gonna pilot this mamajama lol

Alright guys, here is my write up from last night! Ended 1-2

Round 1: Abzan Coco
----Game 1: I keep a hand with some gas but no creatures, and i just keep drawing redraw spells like Visions and Probe, but no freaking creature lol He starts kinda slow, plays Birds of Paradise into Kin-tree Spirit, and lands Viscera Seer soon after. Im holding up my 2 mana burn spells, since I dont have a 3rd land I dont wanna tap out and miss opportunity for spell pierce on his coco, which I now have 2 in my hand, so i tap some shots with the spirit and the seer, until finally he tries coco, which eats spell pierce with no remaining mana for him. Now i start to lean into aggression. I finally get a few creatures, and start applying pressure delver and swifty, and v clique revealing 2 lands for him, He tries another coco soon after, only to eat another spell pierce, (thank you Robert Holt) and swing in for over 10 damage on the next turn.

Side out- 1 slip through space, 1 boros charm
side In- 1 anger of the gods, 1 enginnered Ex.

Game 2: didnt last long. Also kept a no creature hand, with some removal and draw. This game he goes nuts, 2 voice of R, I see 2 kitchen finks, wall of roots, and 2 coco's while im stuck on 2 lands, and he runs me over, soon to get the combo.

Game 3:
Straight burn, best hand so far. I brought in the Geist here, taking out a lightning helix and a slip through space (i think). My hand was 2 delver, 1 swift, 1 geist, 1 bolt, 1 land. I play delver first, doesnt flip this turn but reveals a land so im ok with that, play delver and I bolt his Birds. He pays 2 life to play his viscera seer, then both my delver flips, and he dies soon after,

1-0

Round 2: Scapeshift.... **** i wish i had unsubstantiate

Game 1
I keep an ok hand, and his t1 search reveals exactly what is going on lol he bolts a couple of delvers before they flip, and i ping him here and there with a few burn spells waiting for a better creature. i finally draw some action with a v clique and 2 swiftys., the v clique is very timely since i ripped his scapeshift from his hand just in time. Then kill him on the following turn with a bolt + attackers, next turn he would have drawn scapeshift and won.

i have no clue what i did because i feel like i have nothing for the match up, ithink i brought in geist just to try to clock him faster.

Game 2
An anger of the gods blows me out when i have a very explosive start with 2 swiftys and some draw stuff fueling prowess for a few turns. After the anger i cant find anymore creatures and he blows me away with a titan and valakuts.

Game 3
I draw 6 land this game, and i path'ed an early obstinate baloth, and that was stupid, since 2 turns later he finished me off with a titan, next time, leave the damn thing alone. live and learn

1-1

Round 3: Bant Eldrazi

Game 1 I mulligan to 5 (hand 7 and 6 had no land) with keping a 1 lander, and keepin a land at the top. he does what eldrazi does, and just destroys me honestly, TKS ,2 bolts for any little creatures i draw, and my reality is soon smashed lol

-side- Chandra pyromaster, bedlam, stony silence (he played at least 2 of the g/r tap artifact things so i figured it couldnt hurt) 2 slips are out, a helix and a charm.

Game 2: Chandra wins me this game hands down. Its very grindy, we both draw stuff, answer each others stuff, i see a ratchet bomb, but i have stony silence, he plays kessig wolf fun but no creatures he has. So chandra is at 5, he smashed my reality at her, i block with a snapcaster tokeep her alive, and just keep pinging him while he draws crap, as i do, but soon hes in bolt range, and a molten rain off the top is just enough damage.

Game 3: this game is grindy, but hopeless. I draw at least 9 of my lands, he plays choke so im very choosey on what im playing and when im fetching, he draws all 4 of his kozileks return, and a ratchet bomb at 1 i literally just can't do anything. He brings down an 9/9 Endless one after both of us draw lands and pass for 2 turns each, and im sitting here with a useless spell pierce and a lightning bolt with him stil at a healthy 13.

the bant eldrazi match up seems absolutely horrendous for me. I honestly need a lot more testing, there are just a lot of things im very unfamililar with and i kinda felt lost during the match up. I felt more comfortable playing against scapeshift, which was weird lol
boros charm going back down to 1, unsubstantiate is going in as a 2 of, slip is going back to 2, and ill post post an adjusted list later for us to discuss if you all wouldnt mind.
appreciate the read if you read all of it lol
please feel free to throw me some advise, my sideboard is going to change drastically, but chandra will stay.

I was thinking of trying that sort of list. The more I Run with Delver the less impressed by him every singlr game.
I'll give it a try tomorrow and see how I like it. Only time will tell.
I playtested against affinity today, and I have to say i flooded out every game almost. I may drop a land. Drawing 6 lands at least 3 of my games was lretty ridiculous lol

Quote from CurdBros »

Here is my new list for reference:

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
4 Delver of Secrets 4 Monastery Swiftspear 2 Geist of Saint Traft 1 Vendilion Clique 2 Snapcaster Mage 2 Bedlam Reveler 4 Lightning Bolt 2 Lightning Helix 1 Boros Charm 1 Izzet Charm 2 Remand 1 Spell Pierce 1 Unsubstantiate 1 Vapor Snag 3 Path to Exile 4 Serum Visions 4 Gitaxian Probe 2 Slip Through Space 1 Saheeli Rai 4 Scalding Tarn 3 Flooded Strand 1 Arid Mesa 2 Steam Vents 1 Hallowed Fountain 1 Sacred Foundry 2 Spirebluff Canal 1 Seachrome Coast 1 Island 1 Plains 1 Mountain		2 Wear // Tear 1 Negate 1 Dispel 1 Celestial Purge 2 Deflecting Palm 1 Blessed Alliance 1 Spellskite 2 Stony Silence 1 Hallowed Moonlight 1 Engineered Explosives 1 Echoing Truth 1 Spreading Seas

I'm in the "testing stage" and am trying new things. I did notice that I wanted more threat to 15 total. I put Echoing Truth in the sideboard. I am giving Izzet Charm one more try, but I am also trying another Spell Pierce, another Unsubstantiate, and a Spell Snare.

What do you all think I should try?

Alrighty. I like it. The v clique is going to have spots where it is REALLY good i can feel it. I think you should keep track of when you see V clique, if it would have been better to be a Geist, and see if you like seeing it when you do.
_

Have you tried Electrolyze? Depending on meta, could be good mainboard even if it's 3 mana. I've been considering adding one, but also Forked Bolt is a card and 1 mana is MUCH nicer of a cmc. Lol

_
Built to smash why am i considering this card? Im not sure. I was opening a few Kaledesh packs and this card just stood out to be. Is giving +3 a better combat trick than protection or unblockable? Im not sure. I like the idea of a person blocking with a goyf or Kalitus and my swifty surviving. I kept this card out to test later for sure. Tell me if im crazy people.

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Oh! One more. Ive been looking at Repeal, i like the tempo, i like the draw, how most creatures are low cost (exception tron and through the breach) since we run such few lands... i like everything about this card. Any testing?

_
Aurelia's Fury this card seems great. Granted, bad in the first few turns but i feel like the text on this card could be SUPER relevant.
Lets discuss my peeps!
_

ONE MORE THING: thing in the ice seems to be popping up in more prowess sideboards. Anyone else been thinking about this guy?

_ Omg! Ajani, caller of pride! Is this the time for him!?