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  • posted a message on Painter's Servant
    Quote from Impossible »
    Or why we're only worried about that situation in regards to Painter's Servant instead of Mycosynth Lattice or Enchanted Evening, both of which are far more likely to accidentally nuke a game. Other players -- not the person playing the Lattice or Evening -- are far more likely to randomly have cards that interact poorly because playing Vandalblast and Fracturing Gust is just good deckbuilding, as opposed to playing random color-hosers. It really is just Iona.


    It was that way for some time but then when Ugin came out there was another kind of scare card. Ultimately I think there is some fear in what it could do with future cards but its a design space that is very rarely utilized. Assembing an artifact creature + a planeswalker isn't exactly easy and to be honest..... why the hell is Iona an ok thing assuming no other card is even with her?
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Original EDH decklists???
    Is there a place to find the first EDH decklists? The ones with the original Elder Dragon Legends.

    Thanks in advance.


    Likely no because that was a time that would have gone back to the late 90s or early 2000s and the game as a whole wasn't really regulated or had the rules that they do now. Its possible that Sheldon and or some of the very early adopters might have a list somewhere but its not very likely that they didn't document that stuffs or it is lost to time.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    2) I grow more bored of playing +3C decks. (playing against them is fine)


    This has been me for several years now. I really enjoy having strengths and weaknesses in my decks rather than having a big pit of goodstuff that three color decks feel like they turn into. I think there are still some builds that force you out of the normal goodstuffs in 3+ color but in general I have a hard time with them unless the commander is really extreme.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Commander Forum Helpdesk and Announcements
    Quote from Destro416 »
    Im not sure im in the right thread I was looking for help on making my first edh deck.


    Also, we have a guide for tags that I find helpful to pass to new users. It can be found here. Figuring out how to do tags can be a little confusing at first but they are very helpful.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on London Mulligan
    I think it has its advantages for those who aren't as good at deckbuilding. I saw a lot of people on a budget and or who own a LOT of decks who had some issues after partial went away because their decks weren't optimized. From this standpoint I think its possible that it could be adapted to commander.

    From the standpoint of those who build tuned and competitive decks.... I am not entirely sure if this is better than or close behind the power that was partial paris. I think that the current mulligan system is probably superior for those with higher tuned / competitive decks in mind.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Creatureless Mono-Green
    Quote from Joda »

    I think* that squall line (or the like) for 100000 plus Platinum angel because the first time all the state based effects are checked (simultaneously) the angel is still in play so everyone with 0 or less life loses and angel (preventing your loss) dies. Then when state based effects sre checked again you would lose since you no longer control the angel, but you've already won. (See rule 704.3)

    *If a judge could clarify this, I will edit accordingly.


    Linking to a super old rules thread but it addresses this. The state based check to see if the angel is dead also checks to see if other players are dead and so it would essentially resolve their deaths at the same time as the angel's death (I think). I believe you would be killed by state based after your opponents though.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on O-Kagachi - 5c Cycling
    Quote from rogerandover »
    Reaper King would be a great commander for a 5c cycling deck. With Xenograft and Conspiracy all dudes you would blink with Astral Slide would vindicate something.

    So, Pathfinder, you are just trying to see how the engine works, and will decide about your wincon later?

    You seem to be running way too little lands, since 21 of them would potentially go to your grave. And also, since they come into play tapped, why not play Amulet of Vigor? A great way to use already played cyclelands is Trade Routes and to a lesser extent Hallowed Ground.

    About Astral Slide I think you underrate it Smile So much value - and very very good with Containment Priest Smile


    Reaper King - it could be a thing I suppose. I like O-Kagachi in that it gives me an acceptable clock as well as some pillowfort like effect that punishes people from poking me. Reaper King would need me to add a few cards specifically for him but I could maybe see it. He would give me more of a control / removal concept rather than a combat based one. I probably won't pull the trigger on that right now but its an interesting thought. Given the budget landbase I am rocking here I could see merit in his hybrid mana costs.

    Wincon - honestly I often make decks and don't really dedicate a wincon. I care a lot more to see them work smoothly than committing myself to how I will win. I like to instead make the deck work smoothly and stop opponents from winning than to see how quickly and efficiently I can win myself. Some of my issue in general is that the cycling mechanic itself doesn't really seem to have a lot of valid ways of winning so most things would be just generic 5c wincon / combos and I don't really care enough to run those. I would maybe be willing to somehow buff something I am already running but I am not interested in running something that can win from nowhere like a combo. I am kind of intentionally making this more of a synergy focus build rather than trying to make a strong combo 5c deck as I would essentially immediately scrap that in that I don't find that interesting.

    Land count - Keep in mind with cycling cards it means I have a high prevalence of draw. I also have a few ways to recover lands I might cycle either to play or back to hand. The difference between 36 and 38 lands is also fairly slim and I am not running any fetchlands here for thinning. Also keep in mind that I have 9 cards that cycle to tutor lands as it stands. 36 might even be too many given how this deck is probably going to turn over cards a lot more than a lot of decks. Its possible I might want to throw a few tutors to get my Crucible of Worlds / Life from the Loam / Ramunap Excavator cards but its unlikely that I need more lands.

    Amulet of Vigor - I am well aware of amulet titan decks and how they work in modern. Its not great here because at its best I would play it turn 1/2 and it gives me one more mana per turn. Where this card shines is when you are putting a LOT of lands into play each turn and or stacking the amulets to generate mana. In commander I would need to be putting 2+ lands in play each turn to really have an average acceptable outcome with it. Its probably weaker than just having a mana stone due to this. Its also a card that falls off in value kind of hard if you don't curve it into play early on. ETB tapped lands can be a bugger but an easier solution is to run something like Exploration which can put me ahead on lands which is why I went that direction instead.

    Trade Routes - that's an interesting thought. I will keep that in mind for the future as it would be really cool to combine with crucible of worlds type effects. I would maybe need to bump up the number of "play an extra land" effects to make it really shine but I like the idea.

    Astral Slide - I might be under valuing it but I don't want to make a bunch of adjustments to make specifically it stronger. I might be willing to play with a few more things like Eternal Witness and Tilling Treefolk but I don't really foresee me getting 10+ ETB creatures anytime soon to make it really shine. Its interaction with Containment Priest is cool but again, I don't really currently have anything set up to defend, tutor, or abuse it and I feel like it feels a little all in without having a more dedicated means to get / recur it. For now I just plan to see what it does as is rather than plan to try to tutor / protect it.

    Quote from Tev »
    Yeah, definitely underrating Astral Slide. That's one of the few decks I took apart not because I was dissatisfied but because it's win percentage was too high. If you have access to Green, you may want to consider Life from the Loam and Tilling Treefolk as ways to continually recycle your Cycling Lands. Eternal Witness and other Regrows will be important, especially if someone nukes your important pieces.

    I think Reaper King is a great suggestion, though adding Xenograft and all that might be too much. On the other hand, I can almost salivate over the thought of blocking with Gonti, Lord of Luxury, Sliding him out, blow something up on end step when he returns and take a look at the top four of an opponent's deck. But my inner bad player always dreams of the very best results, I've learned to smother them and put in more realistic cards.

    Virulent Plague is a non-bo with Drake Haven. It's easier to abuse Archfiend of Ifnir.

    Monastery Siege is a free 'cycle' discard outlet. If you're looking for more in that range, I highly recommend Unfulfilled Desires, that frequently won me the game if I got it out with Faith of the Devoted.

    Here's the deck if you want to crib some notes. The next bit of improvement with the deck was adding Perplexing Chimera to gain control of various spells and slide him out on end step to get him back. It would be an extra layer to protect my Slide from kill spells. Another addition would be Glen Elendra Archmage for pretty much the same reason and if I were made of money Gilded Drake as well.

    Part of me wanted to make a Skybind Slide deck but I think that's just cramming too much into one deck.


    I was kind of planning on just not assuming I would have or keep important pieces than to try to protect anything. Eternal Witness is high on my list of things to add though I just keep needing to make cuts which have gotten harder and I haven't gotten to play this list yet to see where some of my hang ups are yet.

    Virulent Plague - its just a card I like. I see far too many token swarm decks in my meta and its an easy nuke that makes them answer the card before they can really progress. Its cheap to drop and honestly I don't think I have seen it be dead yet. Sure it kills those drakes but what it does to my opponents is too good for me to not run. There is a person I play against every week where 80% of what they play is token decks and honestly, Najeela needs to go die in a fire.

    Monastery Siege - it seems ok but what if instead it was just a tutor for Fluctuator? It seems hard to justify in that light if you ask me.

    Unfulfilled Desires - cool card I don't know if I had seen that one before. I think I would rather have a tutor for some of my better enablers though.

    Zur - the basics of your deck just runs completely different when playing zur as the commander. He gives a lot more regular access to specific enablers but also limits the abuse outlets. I really like the green land abuse options that I get in 5c as well as the number of cycling lands I get to run in 5c. The incentive to build around specific enchantments and keeping them in play changes entirely if you ask me. I am focusing a lot more on just making cycling as a whole better rather than focusing on any one specific enabler card.

    Skybind - I run it in my Heliod deck. I managed to combo it with Serra's Sanctum and was making Heliod tokens / flickering Sanctum on everyone's turns. I completely ran them down with that it was completely crazy fun. I don't really know if you could make both Skybind and Astral Slide both feel smooth in the same deck though to be totally honest.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Creatureless Mono-Green
    Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth for infinite mana. Then dump to Staff of Domination for lifegain and draw your deck into a Hurricane / Squall Line / Helix Pinnacle win.

    You could also augment some of this into a Paradox Engine plan potentially too if you wanted but its a bit harder to keep the draw up in green without creatures. I suppose you could use Sprout Swarm or something like it to go infinite.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Bad Bruna's Reanimation and Control Team

    Ha, yeah I had the same thought. Actually, if I'd stayed in the game I'd have run out of things to cast with all that mana (I did have Dawn of Hope in play, so there's that). I'm going to continue to test it - I now know it's good at it's best, I now need to know how wildly it varies and how good it is at it's worst.


    Yea I agree. Having more lifegain angels / humans in the deck does make Dawn better but I have made it work ok even when I start spinning my wheels in the mid to late.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Bad Bruna's Reanimation and Control Team
    Little bit of feedback on Smothering Tithe. It's pretty nuts. I had a short game the other day where I had a T1 Sol Ring, T2 Smothering Tithe. End of T3 I was easily in double digits for mana production. Seems really solid because 2 is somewhat unreasonable to pay for every draw - especially at the start of your turn. Game didn't end well - someone threw a sulk because my deck wasn't casual enough (apparently Thalia, Heretic Cathar is a stax piece), so I just left them to it - the price of playing randos online. Nonetheless, the silver lining was confirmation that Tithe is pretty crazy value.


    Yea..... but its also the kind of card that is going to have wildly different gameplay based on when you draw it. I play Dark Confidant in my vampire deck as an example and if I curve him in, yea he is totally nuts but if I topdeck him on turn 8 I question what the hell I am doing with my life.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Which Goblin is the best General?
    Quote from discomute »
    I think it's Google. I tried once to Google something like 'firemind v dracogenius' and when I got it, it had an interesting debate. I read it all and responded, not noticing the date stamp. A mod told me off for necroing threads and said I should start a new one.

    MTG salvation is rather unique in its rules. Most forums will give you infraction for not checking first and starting a new thread. Here it's the opposite. I think most People just Google and either don't notice or think they are doing the correct thing but continuing discussion rather than spamming threads.


    Necros can be annoying but we also don't want to chase people off because of them which is why mods usually don't do anything but lock them. This one spun up valid discussion after being necroed and most of the thread was still valid in that not many other tribal goblins have been created since this thread.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on O-Kagachi - 5c Cycling
    Quote from FunkyDragon »
    I'd love to do five color cycling sometime (already have a Zur Astral Slide deck), but I've had the same issue with picking a general. I had considered Ramos, Dragon Engine with Invigorating Boon to help generate mana but haven't given it a go yet.

    What do you plan to be your main win condition?
    Living Death is in there and can get back everything you cycle away, but will those creatures really pull a win?
    Drake Haven or a hard-cast Decree of Justice?
    Lightning Rift can certainly weaponize cycling, but so can Faith of the Devoted, which you didn't include.
    There's tons of draw, which Psychosis Crawler could weaponize.

    You also have Astral Slide but only one creature that really takes advantage of repeatable ETBs (Baleful Strix). Is that in there for more defensive purposes?

    Also, one of my favorite cycling cards is Rebuild. Sometimes it can be absolutely backbreaking for an opponent.


    Win Condition - honestly, I don't really know or care right now. I am more trying to prove the concept than worry about that right now lol. Its likely if I do kill players it might be with just random commander beat downs. I suspect that as a whole cycling isn't really going to have great wincons. If a deck plays well I don't really care if I win though.

    Astral Slide - I think its a little silly to go all in on slide. My assumption is it dies immediately. It can be used defnesively and or blanking tokens so its really not a cocnern of mine considering its also anti synergy to include a bunch of ETB creatures to make it "better". I might make room at some point for E witness but honestly, I think slide is totally over rated and only a single card among many so I don't see a reason to build around it. Its good without building around it especially for a deck with low tutors. I understand the idea of building around it a bit more if playing someone like zur I just think the deck works better without me building around it here.

    Rebuild - I am not sure, I will think about it but it seems really hit or miss in my meta. There are plenty of mana rocks I guess I just question if I would be happy casting it to bounce some stones.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on O-Kagachi - 5c Cycling
    I built this deck starting at the concept of cycling and worked backwards to figure out what colors / commander I was going to choose. I ended up at 5c in part because I felt like I was going to use at least four color (omitting red potentially) but in the end I wanted more cycling lands in the deck.

    • Cycling Focus - I wanted the cards that cycled to be either situational or always something I wanted to cycle. Cards with cycling that I plan to usually cast seem a little questionable since in most cases there are more powerful cards that don't cycle. I considered some like miscalculation but then I just questioned why I would want that over Arcane Denial, Mana Drain, or Negate for example.
    • Landbase - I often avoid 5c due to the landbase. With all of the cycling lands that I wanted to include (21) I sort of decided to not go deep on shock, fetch, and abu duals as a personal preference. I might still potentially change the landbase over time but for now I wanted to keep it simple and cheap and see how it works.
    • Commander - I am not really sold on any specific commander. I considered others like Sliver Queen and Cromat as well but I don't plan to combo regardless so I avoided Sliver Queen because of how expensive she is to buy and the fact that I won't go infinite with her even if I had her.

    DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    COMMANDER (1)
    1 O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami

    CREATURES (22)
    1 Baleful Strix
    1 Vile Manifestation
    1 Bant Sojourners
    1 Esper Sojourners
    1 Nimble Obstructionist
    1 Ramunap Excavator
    1 Curator of Mysteries
    1 Grixis Sojourners
    1 Oracle of Mul Daya
    1 Archfiend of Ifnir
    1 Horror of the Broken Lands
    1 Street Wraith
    1 The Gitrog Monster
    1 Pale Recluse
    1 Sanctum Plowbeast
    1 Shefet Monitor
    1 Twisted Abomination
    1 Valley Rannet
    1 Eternal Dragon
    1 Jungle Weaver
    1 Krosan Tusker
    1 Scion of Darkness

    ARTIFACT (5)
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Fluctuator
    1 Abandoned Sarcophagus
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Alhammarret's Archive

    ENCHANTMENT (8)
    1 Exploration
    1 Lightning Rift
    1 Astral Slide
    1 Drake Haven
    1 Virulent Plague
    1 Cast Out
    1 Collective Restraint
    1 New Perspectives

    INSTANT (19)
    1 Scarab Feast
    1 Stinging Shot
    1 Angelsong
    1 Cyclonic Rift
    1 Haze of Pollen
    1 Lull
    1 Rapid Decay
    1 Starstorm
    1 Anguished Unmaking
    1 Complicate
    1 Expunge
    1 Forsake the Worldly
    1 Radiant's Judgment
    1 Rescind
    1 Resounding Thunder
    1 Resounding Wave
    1 Ancient Excavation
    1 Resounding Silence
    1 Sylvan Reclamation

    SORCERY (9)
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Sweltering Suns
    1 Decree of Justice
    1 Splendid Reclamation
    1 Living Death
    1 Akroma's Vengeance
    1 Slice and Dice
    1 Decree of Pain

    LAND (36)
    1 Ash Barrens
    1 Barren Moor
    1 Canyon Slough
    1 Command Tower
    1 Desert of the Fervent
    1 Desert of the Glorified
    1 Desert of the Indomitable
    1 Desert of the Mindful
    1 Desert of the True
    1 Drifting Meadow
    1 Exotic Orchard
    1 Fetid Pools
    3 Forest
    1 Forgotten Cave
    1 Irrigated Farmland
    2 Island
    1 Kor Haven
    1 Lonely Sandbar
    1 Mountain
    1 Path of Ancestry
    2 Plains
    1 Polluted Mire
    1 Remote Isle
    1 Scattered Groves
    1 Secluded Steppe
    1 Sheltered Thicket
    1 Slippery Karst
    1 Smoldering Crater
    2 Swamp
    1 Tranquil Thicket
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    I remember hearing somewhere about it giving light for kids walking to school or something of that sort. No clue if that has any merit or truth though.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from Weebo »
    Every time there's a time change I like the Florida proposal of just making DST permanent more.


    I love when we fall back but hate the spring forward. Anytime I get an extra hour of sleep is a big thumbs up for me.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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