Quote from DrunkT »
Yeah, thats true. Thing is in my meta the group was scared of Markov, so many times they where banging me up as a 3v1 from the start until i was at 10-15 or something so that i could not pay much life for card draw. So i was leaning to try some lifelinkers that are in reality fuel for card draw.
I haven't played it in a while now... maybe it's time to see if they remember.
Great to see you again ISBPathfinder, i'm following a couple of your decks. Thanks.
Quote from DrunkT »Ok, so last night i played two games with Uncle Edgar.
First one, the group ended me first. Deck was moving smooth and fast, sadly i flooded a little at mid/end game and couldn't finish it so the 3v1 got me. Second game they gave me some space at the beginning and ended up winning.
As for the lifelinkers inclutions i mentioned, the only one that felt relevant was Tithe Drinker altought it was a fringe case i think, since i was flooding i dumped the excess mana in extort, in fact she ate a removal spell. I guess she stays in my list for the moment, maybe my group wastes another removal spell in her. They tend to hold grudges.
What you guys think about the new "dual" land cycle? I'm considering Brightclimb Pathway Since black is the primary color in the deck, i like this one because the only one drop i think makes a huge differece on turn one is Serra Ascendant In fact the only fetchland i have is Marsh Flats for the same reason.
Quote from NZB2323 »ISBpathfinder, what are your thoughts on Ruinous Ultimatum? I know 7 mana is a lot but it destroys all nonland permanents your opponents’s control and I know you’re running Austere Command. It’s probably an easy replace, right?
Edit: Also what are your thoughts on Savai Triome?
Quote from Drakon »I think that instead of focusing on bigger spells I'd like to ask if Bastion of Remembrance might find a slot in this build? It's essentially a 3-CMC Zulaport Cutthroat effect that survives boardwipes and convinently provides a 1/1 body to use for other effects like Phyrexian Altar.
I've tried my build recently and must say that I'm very impressed with Cordial Vampire and Blood Artist and co. because their incidental value is huge and these small effects were the reason I've won some of my games. That's why I'm wondering about adding another card like this.
Quote from DrunkT »I think if you lean your build towards sac outlets and sac payoffs with Yahenni, Undying Partisan, Pawn of Ulamog, Falkenrath Aristocrat and similar stuff, it could be very good.
I think if it was a 2 CMC i would include it in a heartbeat, but i struggle with a non-vampire 3 CMC spell.
Quote from jakethewhale »Thoughts on Subira, Tulzidi Caravanner? She looks like a solid draw option that also happens to give some evasion as a mana sink.
Quote from NZB2323 »
I don’t think any creatures who cost 3 mana and aren’t vampires are worth it.
Quote from jakethewhale »I don't think it's fair to write it off just based on that criteria alone. Using that logic, we also couldn't use Tymna, Purphoros, Iroas, or Yawgmoth
Quote from NZB2323 »
The only one of those that I run is Purphoros, who is never a creature in this deck.
Quote from DrunkT »As a budget replacement for Tymna i think it's ok. They are kind of similar, but Tymna it's far superior.
Quote from Chaos Milk Tea »The problem with Subira is once your vampires become too big she's a dead card. Also if you want draw immediately, you need to have 5 mana sitting around which Edgar will likely not.
Not an awful card, but probably one of the last options to consider.
Quote from Drain Life »I haven't checked in for some time, so here I am. Over the Covid 19 global crisis and beyond, I have been updating my build and playing through Skype when I can. I always come back to this list to see what is going on and if there is any cool tech to plunder. I am glad that this thread has not been abandoned. As always, this is an inspiration for my budget build.
My best friend has a Scion of the Ur Dragon deck and it is imperative that I have ways of removing and/or blocking his dragons, or I just lose. Scion can ramp into play by the 4th turn and knock me out through the air on turn 5. Based on the turn order, that gives me 4-5 turns to have an answer or scoop. Similarly, my wife plays Inalla which can ramp on turn two, cast Trophy Mage on turn three and combo on turn 4... in addition to other paths to victory. The best I can do is attack Inalla and try to have removal in the form of Path or StP or something for the Scion.
You know how much I respect your build, but against the decks I face, I find it better to have some interaction (instant speed removal) and some more anthems such as Glory of Warfare and combat modifiers like Dolmen Gate or Cover of Darkness which were both older tech you had shared before. In my games, it has been less about the fast initial rush as it has been about being mana efficient and having individually strong attacks that go in as unblocked as possible.
I really feel like the wonderful thing about Edgar Markov is that, depending on your budget and meta, it can be a "Your millage may vary" kind of a deck, and this is a wonderful starting place to see how it fits with your meta. Never stop updating and improving it. I deeply appreciate it.
Quote from NZB2323 »Is Malakir Blood-Priest worth it? Vampires can have their own party. He already counts as a cleric.
Changeling Outcast Universal Automaton Vampire Lacerator
Changeling Outcast Universal Automaton Guul Draz Vampire Pulse Tracker Quag Vampires Shadow Alley Denizen Vampire Cutthroat Zulaport Cutthroat
Changeling Outcast Universal Automaton Viscera Seer
Quote from Chaos Milk Tea »The determining factor is probably comparing the trigger vs just playing another 1 drop or card draw instead. Comparing it to a 1 drop, you could say that in the case of blood-priest you are paying 1 mana for the bodies, and 1 for the drain effect. That means the drain has to on average deal as much damage as simply having two more bodies in play would. There will be times where you have no other party creatures, or you have 2. A fully party is very unlikely. Let us assume then that on average you have a party of 2, which is 6 damage total.
With pump effects, your vampires will on average be 3/3s. This means that two additional bodies are offering at least a potential 6 damage, possibly more if they attack more than once. The damage potential of just playing two 1 drops instead of this card is better, but I could see the argument that blood-priest dealing direct damage is more reliable.
In the end, leaning into synergy with the number of bodies in play is probably the better direction as it is what Edgar is best at. It is much easier to optimize for a wide board than it is having a 3+ party. Blood-Priest is by no means a BAD card, but if you have a refined deck list there probably isn't anything worth cutting for it.
Quote from DrunkT »This is interesting just as a 2 drop. I've been favoring a couple of lifelinkers in the deck and this is an upgrade.
Quote from Drakon »Hi ISBP! What are your thoughts about Heraldic Banner? Could it be considered another anthem effect for Vampires (which are mostly black)?
Quote from ArgonathDK »Thank you so much for your answer. They make so much sense, and I almost feel stupid when you explain it, cause it just seem SO obv
Do you run Dech Tech's on youtube or anywhere else, that one can follow?
Thanks again, this is SO much help.
Quote from ArgonathDK »
Thank you so much. I already had my eyes on Yawgmoth, but I have never played with Necropotence even though I know it's a very strong card. To be honest I don't quiet understand the card, and how to use it, but know I guess I have to learn
I see btw that you almost don't run any removal. Do you rely on pushing through with your Vampires, or that your other opponents just takes care of it? I quickly find my self as the arch nemesis in the game, for obvious reasons, so ppl are hesitant when it comes to remove anything that works against me, meaning I almost always have to fight my own battles, and can't rely on politics like with other decks.
Does this deck only win if one doens't run into too many wipes? What was your game plan?
How do you feel about Selfless Spirit as a little protection? It even keeps the curve down.
Also, I see you run Obelisk of Urd, so how do you feel about Venerated Loxodon in the deck?
Quote from jakethewhale »What do you think about Rankle, Master of Pranks? His ability to sacrifice creatures seems good to keep opponents' boards clear while we have tokens to spare. If opponents don't have threatening creatures, the hand attack can be strong, and we likely run enough draw to compensate anyway.
Quote from ArgonathDK »
I totally agree with this, and that everyone has to be at the same powerlevel. I just think that some ppl rate markov higher than he is, due to them not running board wipes, removal etc. and it just sounded like you didn't play it due to it's speed. This makes alot more sense
Anyway, if it's not too much to ask, could I then get you to have a look at my current deck version, and make suggestions? The cards in my "Maybe" list are cards that I own and bought at the very beginnning before I read your post here, and decided to go low curve
I'm also willing to buy more cards, but atm there is no room for mana crypt and cards at a simular price.
I really appriciate all your help. My current playgroup likes the pressure from this deck, and are running decks at the same powerlevel, so don't feel shy suggesting powerful cards , muhahaha
Quote from ArgonathDK »@ISBPathfinder
Sorry for not responding before now, but have been out sick.
Thank you so much, for your very in depth answer, it was really helpful, and when I asked my self alot of the questions you asked, then I have to agree with you.
Two questions though
You say that you are not playing it due to it being a bit fast in your current meta, so my question is....isn't that the point of an aggro deck? Imo its a valid strategy, and even in a steady playing group, ppl will have to be ready for all tactics, it being mill or aggro. Agreeing on not playing aggro leads to deck building that are unatural imo, bc ppl are then able to build around it, and not care. The deck is fast yes, the Emminence trigger is powerful yes, but imo not overpowered. I think ppl rate the powerlevel higher than it sohuld be only due to them not having any aggro answers in their deck.
I would very much like to hear your thoughts on this
Last question is about one last Enchantment, and you will properbly just tell me the same as you did above, but I have just found my selv in several situations now, where this would have helped me to push through, giving a flying vampire this buff, or a non-blockable one.
Once again, thank you so much for this thread. Having only played Commander for 3-4 months, this is the thread I have enjoyed the most, and I still play my Markov deck with big excitement
Quote from ArgonathDK »Still a huge help. My version is a bit more budget friendly, so I don't have the same freedom. But you post here had a lot of new information, and you experience with the deck is SO valuable for me, that never played it before. I'm testing my own version for the first time tonight, with a low 43 Creature mana curve.
I my self love Patriarch's Bidding and are also thinking about Command The Dreadhorde to bring back the value when board wipes are unstoppable
Either way, thanks for posting, and hoping you will return to The Vampire Lord in the near future. Will look for your posts
Quote from Chaos Milk Tea »Oh wow, I'm glad I found this deck list. I've been refining my deck for a yearish and this list looks like it's basically where my deck was going to end up. It's actually kind of spooky since you've already gone ahead and removed some of the cards I'm currently planning to replace like Impact Tremors and Metallic Mimic. It's like seeing my own deck but in the future, lol. Also thank you so much for mentioning Yawgmoth, Thran Physician. I wouldn't have thought to try a 4 mana sac outlet but he actually does SO MUCH for the deck.
I'd like to get some thoughts from everyone on the following cards.
Dusk Legion Zealot: Is it just me or is this card actually kind of slow? I'm starting to wonder if the draw 1 is worth a 2 mana 1/1. Certainly slot efficient, but not tempo efficient.Purphoros, God of the Forge: People are really scared of this card, but I'm starting to think it might need to go for the same reason as Impact tremors. Purphoros is a powerful card, but it gets cast so late and has no immediate impact unless you have tons of mana and a full hand. Most of the time this card gets me targeted and killed before it can do much.Stromkirk Condemned: I used to avoid this card like the plague since it seemed like it would just lose me card advantage. Now that the deck is much better at refilling the hand though, it's starting to look like a second Legion Lieutenant.Humble Defector: A different kind of reckless card draw. It doesn't draw immediately but it has gotten me politics points while keeping my hand full. Sometimes it stops working if you are the archenemy.Adaptive Automaton: I originally avoided this card for not being a vampire on cast, but now I'm starting to think that any anthem that gets pumped by my other anthems may be worth including. That is, at least until we get new vampires from Zendikar in 2020.
Quote from ArgonathDK »@ISBPathfinder
I know you don't play the deck anymore, and I'm not sure if you are still around, but would very much like your opnions on the following cards, in a low mana curve build.
Etchings of the Chosen
Sanguine Bond in combo with Blind Obedience and all the other lifelink.
Command the dreadhorde and Patriarch's Bidding
Sorin, Solemn Visitor and Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants
Quote from Vlasiax »You might be interested in a little combo that I've found on someone's decklist on tappedout: Phyrexian Altar + Cloudstone Curio + 1 CMC Vampire. In my build I already use Altar as an extender because it let's me cast more 1 CMC Vampires so at least for me adding another artifact might be worth it.
Quote from ArgonathDK »Hi @ISBPathfinder
I can see that you have edited you OP "Last edited by ISBPathfinder: Jul 2, 2019". My guess is that this also concerns the decklist it self?
Thank you in advance for this great thread. Very helpful
Quote from WizardMN »Kess can cast Instants in the Graveyard since you, basically, look at them as Instants or Sorceries and then see if anything lets you cast them. Normally, this is the normal rules, but Kess allows this as well.
Toshiro is different since Toshiro targets and they are never instants or sorceries to be targeted in the graveyard.
"An adventurer card is a creature card in every zone except the stack, as well as while on the stack if not cast as an Adventure. Ignore its alternative characteristics in those cases. For example, while it’s in your graveyard, Giant Killer is a white creature card whose converted mana cost is 1. It can’t be the target of the triggered ability of Mystic Sanctuary."
Quote from cyberium_neo »Twitter or Facebook, as in our own page, or MtgSalvation's page, if you have such.
And what is the budget and format restriction?