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  • posted a message on Modern Coco Allies
    So, Jeff went 2-3 but honestly I think it was a decent showing. The thing about allies is that its not going to beat T3 win decks unless you get lucky or they stumble. We have sideboard cards and maybe we trip them up but for the most part it is what it is I guess. Doing 5 rounds and facing infect + tron in two of those 5 is not the worst thing I guess but its also going to mean that 2/5 of those games are going to not be very favored for us. Jeff didn't play the infect game at all which if it had been me I would have at least played even knowing I am not favored. If I were playing in that last match I would have probably taken -4 Akoum Battlesinger and I likely would have brought in the dismembers and some Ondu Clerics for it.

    <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PNaG3uOVCmA&quot; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/PNaG3uOVCmA&quot; width="425" height="350" movie="http://www.youtube.com/v/PNaG3uOVCmA&quot; wmode="transparent"/>

    Spoiled below is the list as of this video:


    I am still kind of processing what I would do from here but honestly there isn't much I can think of. I would maybe add one more sideboard tron hate card and I think Gideon is kind of so so with UW control being one of the few matchups I want him over another Return to the Ranks.

    EDIT: Giving it a little more thought, I might even go as far as bringing the Expedition Envoy count to 4x in the main. It seemed like having one drops really helped us a lot more against the fast decks. The tradeoff is obviously that it brings our topdecking to being a little worse but too often it seemed like we were stuck with multiple 2 drops in hand that were slowly working their way to play. Bojuka Brigand showed his ugly head in duplicate in the last game even though we only run two. I also think that it might be possible to shift some of the mainboard Path to Exile to being mainboard Dismember if only in a light split even if that is 3 to 1 given how good of a matchup I feel we have against fair creature decks. That might just be a bad idea but its a random thought.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Modern Coco Allies
    Quote from D90Dennis14 »
    Mirror Entity is a reasonable mana sink.


    Mirror Entity is a winmore card in that its only good if you have Harabaz Druid and a board full of creatures likely. It has essentially no immediate impact unless you have a minimum of 5 mana up and you need to have a wide board + lots of mana for it to be a reasonable card. That is too slow for modern in almost every deck with elves being POSSIBLY the exception but generally speaking its also not good enough there.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Modern Coco Allies
    I am still somewhat strongly against Harabaz Druid in part because I don't feel like it is very reliable and if you don't play it on curve there are far too few things to use the mana for. On curve it brings up the question of if it sticks or not and it quickly gets worse off curve. I think for it to really fit in allies what we would need is some sort of ally that has a strong mana dump effect on top of being a reasonable ally for the deck already and being that that doesn't exist, its kind of why I have been constantly feeling that it won't work. In my mind what I am thinking is sort of like what Elvish Clancaller is for elves would be a great concept of kind of what I am talking about. Some sort of ally that is already reasonably good for allies but also has a great way to dump mana to it. We could run something like Lead the Stampede but I think its a card that is kind of bad for us if we don't have literally Harabaz Druid where as elves can get away with it due to the huge abundance of mana dorks they run. I keep getting back to Harabaz Druid and the reason I don't like it is because it seems like we don't have any consistancy on its front and we don't have a GOOD ally who can act as a mana sink. Wolf run is cool and all but I would want something beyond a colorless land in a potentially 5c deck.

    The second list is interesting but its almost not an ally deck anymore. Honestly running 12 noncreature spells in a coco list seems like its stretching the capability of what you can still run CoCo for + only 12 allies kind of makes it seem like not an ally deck anymore to me. Its honestly more of a human deck at this point than it is an ally deck which I guess is still an interesting list but it makes me question if a lot of those allies are literally just grisly bears since it seems unlikely to see many other allies enter even if they stick several turns.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Scooping to Chaos cards?
    Yea I essentially scoop every time to Scrambleverse / Thieves' Auction. I would rather you use MLD or combo to kill me to be totally honest. I can't think of anything I would be less pleasant to play through to be honest than one of those effects.

    If on the other hand you want to play cards like: Grand Melee, Grip of Chaos, Invasion Plans, Possibility Storm, or Planar Chaos.... those cards are freaking sweet and I love that they make the game play differently temporarily from usual and I would always encourage players to play fun and interesting cards like that.

    The big difference in my mind is that Scrambleverse and Thieves' Auction feel like griefer cards that punish players for making good decisions and playing interactive decks while rolling a D4 to see who is declared the victor.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on So what could WotC realistically do to help white in Commander?
    Quote from Dormammu »
    Card ideas this thread gave me for monowhite:

    Balance that costs WWW - We know the big problem with this spell is the cost, since Magus is legal. This would be very slow outside monowhite and Balance is probably fine in monowhite.


    I don't know that we can really make Balance a card again without it costing at least 5+ mana in all reality. Even if you brought up the cost, I think there would still be a lot of reasons as to why it wouldn't get printed. They recently printed Magus of the Balance but he needs 5 mana to activate as well as tapping which adds so many additional hoops to it that I think its more than fair. You really can't go about printing balance effects without a very heavy nerf to their efficiency or you will just end up immediately needing to ban the card.

    While I do agree that bringing up the mana intensity of white mana does do something after a point I think you would likely need to look at WWWW at a MINIMUM or else you still probably need to be at 2WWW with only three mana symbols in it and to be honest I am probably being overly generous in saying that.

    Quote from Dormammu »
    Lin-Sivvi, Veteran Commander - Same as Defiant Hero but abilities reference Humans instead of Rebels and she has +1 power or toughness. She’d be really abusable only as a commander, where monowhite again limits the her scope while bringing some oomph to the color.


    As long as it would be printed so only vintage / legacy / commander can play it I guess I wouldn't complain too much but to be honest its not really very flavorful to add that functionality to humans. If you would make the new legend a rebel who tutors humans you might be able to pass it off but in all reality I think you would expand better by just exploring the idea of revisiting rebels but potentially in a way that adds non tutoring rebels to standard / modern which would give more utility and or threats to rebels. Rebels has a weakness that they tend to not really have a means of winning withing their tribe other than tutoring for Mirror Entity with a million mana. If I had my way I would love some good bruisers that rebels could utilize.

    Revisiting the changeling mechanic and making good combat creatures could also be a thing. The last time they did changeling they really didn't make many combat viable changelings as it really comes down to Chameleon Colossus and Taurean Mauler both of which are probably a little low powered as far as modern day beater only creature cards are measured. Managorger Hydra for example costs the same as the Mauler as far as cmc and color intensity but it gets counters off of cards you cast as well as having trample at the tradeoff of not being a changeling. I am saying this from the standpoint that Managorger Hydra is hardly a staple creature that sees play in any format. I think Chameleon Colossus saw a little bit of sideboard modern play at one point just because Jund had a small difficulty interacting with it being it could only really liliana edict or double bolt it. But that was essentially nothing to do with it being a changeling.

    Quote from Dormammu »
    An enchantment that reads, “Spells and abilities opponents control cannot change your life total or move cards from your library to any other zone.” Not sure what it should cost, but the idea is that it forces opponents to fight you with creatures (“fight fair”). There would be ways around it (including removing the enchantment itself), but it would be a roadblock to Exsanguinate or mill wincons and would have occasional interesting interactions like immunity to Bribery.

    Obviously cards like these would be printed in Commander products, as they’d be unsuitable for standard (although they could print that enchantment in standard as a terrible rare).


    I might be wrong on the wording but something along the lines of:

    Enchantment 3W
    Your opponents can't change your life total outside of combat damage.

    It would probably still need work but given that in commander, cards in the 99 are not very stable to be up so I would argue that tagging that onto a commander that is otherwise interesting in some other way would be the way to go.

    If you are looking for Bribery protection the answer is player hexproof ie Leyline of Sanctity. Honestly though..... who targets a mono white player as the bribery target?

    Quote from Dormammu »
    A one-sided Second Sunrise would also be nice.


    You mean Faith's Reward or are you saying the fact that it costs 4 mana instead of three is a problem?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Modern Coco Allies
    Jeff Hoogland will be playing my list tomorrow it looks like on his stream on twitch. I am currently third in que for his modern decks. I will provide the youtube link after he plays it and has the video of it up but I figured if anyone likes watching live I would mention that it will likely be up tomorrow.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Edgar Markov - Low Mana Curve Build
    It is also possible to go deeper on an equipment plan as a card advantage plan. Stoneforge Mystic, Steelshaper's Gift, and Open the Armory could all be tutors for Skullclamp so if you can get up to 3ish+ equipment to have some backup tutor targets I think you could possibly go deeper on tutor for clamp as a plan. Its not as optimal as the good tutors for necropotence but most of those are somewhat affordable.

    Heirloom Blade can be an ok budget card advantage source especially if you pair it with Skullclamp. I really cut it only because it wasn't as efficient as tutors for necro lol.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Are there cards you don't play for power reasons?

    The cards that are broad categories tend to be my own preference / the social agreement in my meta. Land disrupion on mass scale is frowned on in mass in my LGS but some people will still combo and do infinite effects but I still refrain from it myself.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Can PoK return after a few years in exile?
    I never saw an issue with it to begin with so yea I am on board to remove it from the list. I honestly never really ran it and while there was a person or two who would run it we would run it / him down most of the time when he would play it.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Edgar Markov - Low Mana Curve Build
    Quote from ctaylor33 »
    Hey ISB. How has Obelisk of Urd been for you? Also, how important are Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, and Mana Crypt to the success of this deck? I have all three and while I have yet to get too many games in with them, I don't feel they add much to the deck. In fact, I thought the deck ran more smoothly before I added them. Maybe I am looking at them wrong, but the two Mox feel like card disadvantage to me.


    I played this deck a lot heavier when it was new to me. I have a few other aggro and tempo decks as well and I tend to push to test my newest decks more than ones that I have had more time to test and tune just as a general of how I tend to play.

    I haven't drawn Obelisk of Urd since adding it so I can't really comment on that end yet. The moxes have worked well for me but you aren't the first one to bring up and comment on them so I guess perhaps its worth taking that into account for what its worth. If you aren't finding card draw to refill your hand I can totally see it potentially being a problem but so far I have liked the speed they give me. Moxes totally are card disadvantage. They are tempo cards and if you can kick off of them into a faster start and a faster hand refill they are great but if you don't push off of them into strong plays after them then yes, they are a problem but this deck mostly operates as a tempo deck where the fact that you are playing a bunch of 1 drops will burn your hand out so if you don't get some good draw to follow them up even without the disadvantage of a mox you will burn your hand out and flounder.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on So what could WotC realistically do to help white in Commander?
    Quote from Onering »


    They literally don't have to have the rebel mechanic. Merely putting the creature type on a few good creatures is enough. Hell, slapping it on a few made for limited utility creatures would open up the deck without doing anything to standard. It could be seeded in over time, one or two a set when appropriate. New players would just see a flavorful creature type, while established players would see rebel support without it being a major enough theme to warrant bringing back the mechanic. Arguably, there should have been rebels in Aether Revolt, but they'd have probably had to type all the resistance fighters as rebels which would have both had people expecting the mechanic and possibly added creatures that would be too good in the deck.


    ^ Also I could really get along with another cycle of changeling creatures with decent stats. Some sort of flying / vigilant white creature with good stats would be sweet. Changeling creatures that are just well built for their colors would go a long way to help out tribes that lack enough creatures for commander.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on So what could WotC realistically do to help white in Commander?
    Quote from Lithl »
    White has good support for enchantress, but almost none of the actual enchantresses. Kor Spiritdancer and Sram, Senior Edificer for auras only (Sram can do vehicles or equipment, too, but those are generally irrelevant to an actual enchantress deck), and Mesa Enchantress.

    OTOH, green gets Argothian Enchantress, Eidolon of Blossoms (which triggers off of itself, or from blinking/recurring enchantments!), Enchantress's Presence, and Verduran Enchantress. GW also gets Satyr Enchanter and GWU gets Tuvasa the Sunlit.


    My issue with green's enchantress support is that it generally can draw cards almost better by just using green's powerful draw than it can going the synergy route with enchantresses. Why go deep on running those enchantresses when you could just dump a fatty go Greater Good? In a way white is better for enchantress because of its lack of draw normally speaking.

    Also, you can play with Sram as a commander (and I happen to do that for an aura / enchantment deck). Green's options for enchantress commander are essentially multicolored commanders mainly being the new bant ones or possibly a god. Green has kind of no support in mono green for enchantress.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Modern Coco Allies
    I had some valid testing that went astray on me this last week at FNM. I got my ass kicked but I also got a little knowledge from it and honestly it was full of a bunch of unlucky circumstances (like losing the roll and going second vs non interactive strategies).

    Round 1 Tron - (0-2)

    It was a decent game but my opponent got the play and on the final turn he cracked an artifact cantrip into tron assembled on like T4 or T5 and managed to assemble his tron and blew me out with an O Stone on game 1. Game 2 I found 2x Stony Silence twice in a row but I couldn't get my lands to work for me. I kept a 6 but didn't have the ability to tap for W for non allies. I ended up losing this game because I didn't find a white source.

    Round 2 Infect (0-2)

    He kiled me two games in a row on turn 3. In both cases I had the ability to kill him the next turn but again he won the flip and got the play starting. I died to Inkmoth game 1 with 2x pump spells and game 3 he curved the unblockable one and 3x pumped it next turn.

    Round 3 By (and I dropped here as I didn't want to wait an hour for the last match)

    I guess it was fairly unlucky in that I lost the dice roll each match to go first. Oddly enough I lost all 4 dice rolls the week before as well on trying to go first. In both cases the match was close but they were fast non interacting decks and I couldn't find my interactions. Moving forward, I am going to try to lean up my curve a little and get just a smidge more options to interact with creatures from my side. My list as it stands right now is:



    So the big changes as of this week is that I am bringing up my one drop options by two. Expedition Envoy really does kind of suck but I wan't to be a little more consistant in having a turn one play and having one drops also smooths out my three mana play a little more as well. I brought up my Akoum Battlesinger count as I think they are valuable against the non interactive decks and bringing up the one drops also helps them more as well.

    In the side I toned back my options vs control a little to keep my Tron side options strong. I see a lot more tron right now than I do control and I have had some level of success against the control decks I have played so far due to redundancy of threats as well as card advantage in my landbase. Getting a second Dismember in the side to help against non interactive creature based decks.

    I did play a game for fun against an 8 rack deck and my matchup against Ensnaring Bridge is absolutely terrible as of right now but as of right now the number of bridge decks I see is still very low so I am kind of ok letting my bridge match be poor as it feels like my ability to fight against it would be kind of bad even if I had some sort of Naturalize effect in the side. Tuktuk Scrapper would probably be one of the better cards to bring in from the side if I do want to shore that up but he also feels slow enough that he seems a little questionable to bring in against most decks other than bridge decks not to mention the question of how many I would need to bring in to reliably find them. Its possible though that pairing Tuktuk Scrapper + a fist full of Ondu Cleric could stall the game long enough for me to win though. I also entertained the idea of a copy of Hagra Diabolist but at his cost to play as well as the consistancy and inability to go get him really it seemed loose as well.

    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on So what could WotC realistically do to help white in Commander?
    I don't know why people are saying white has nothing or no identity. White has a ton of tools that give them an identity.

    1. The best sweepers. There is only a few sweepers that even kind of stand up to white's sweepers and they are few and far between. The sweepers that other colors do have that kind of or do stand up to white's sweepers in commander are essentially commander only sweepers as they see almost no play in other formats.
    2. Strong access to spot removal. White has the most diverse targeting capability in spot removal of all the colors. It is intended to be second best at spot removal behind black for creature spot removal and with the exception of Path / Swords they tend to be slightly less efficient with more targeting options than black at this.
    3. Token Production - white has some of the best token production options out there. Obviously token production is also in green and red but white tends to do most of the same things at the same or better efficiency. Sacred Mesa is a bit of an outlier for the repeated pay / token production but when looking at X mana token production white is the best and in the pay / token its only second to green (whom also has ramp).
    4. Equipment support - white has the ability to tutor and rez equipment better than any other color. It has effects that care about and improve the efficiency of equipment as well such as Kemba and Sram.
    5. Mass Land Destruction / Stasis - Given Armageddon and the many versions as well as Hokori, Dust Drinker, land disruption is part of white's identity but its also an element that wizards seems to be avoiding supporting in card design these days.
    6. Flickering - given a few cards like Ghostway and Eerie Interlude white is the best at flickering creatures which plays well into ETB effects.
    7. Reanimation - its clearly not as strong at reanimation as black is but I would say its probably second in strength in its capability to reanimate creatures. Blue and red have a bit of artifact recursion and green has a few Regrowth / Eternal Witness effects but when it comes to creature recursion white is decent.
    8. Enchantress support - given tools like Serra's Sanctum and Replenish I would say white is probably the strongest color for enchantress even over green. Green has a few more enchantress effects but I think what they lack is the big payoff cards like the two I just mentioned.

    The biggest issues white has tends to start at its lack of card advantage / draw. I hear some talking about ramp in white but lets be honest here, every color other than green tends to not have ramp but their card draw allows them to justify and run more draw so we are really only talking about mono white when we talk about ramp with white. As a pickup color for any colors other than red, you eleminate most of the issue with white
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on So what could WotC realistically do to help white in Commander?
    So, I think it is true that mono white is the worst mono color but for the most part white is a FAR better splash color in a multicolored deck than red is. Red's valuable bits do go up a little bit against CEDH decks where its cheap and fast artifact removal as well as access to Red Elemental Blast does push it up quite a bit I think the value of those cards in your average deck on a pickup color are vastly inferior to the removal that white gives you.

    The card draw capabilities of both colors tend to be quite lacking when you look at splashing them. Generally when you are splashing them you are mostly comparing Land Tax and equipment tutors to Wheel of Fortune. Wheel of fortune is an amazing and powerful card but it tends to come down to decks focused on combo or fast tempo things as to what makes that card good when you look at picking it up when already having access to blue, green, or black.

    If you are talking about mono color I think there are valid arguments for why red is superior to white and that comes down to a few very key commanders like Kiki, Krenko, and a few others that can be incredibly fast, powerful, and build off of combo tactics. There are a few mono white commanders who can still do somewhat competitive things like say Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle but in general I would say red's commanders seem like they probably run a bit smoother with more cards that you are probably more likely to want outside of assembling a commander combo cannon.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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