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  • posted a message on Tymna & Ikra Shidiqi - Tempo Junk Beats
    Quote from cb4sn13 »
    I'm a long time lurker of this decklist. I absolutely love this deck, with the synergy, speed, and the explosiveness. Not sure if you've updated your decklist with the recent sets that has rolled out.

    I was wondering what you think about Vizkopa Guildmage and Vito, Dawn of the Dusk Rose. On paper, if I play Vito on turn 4, then Ikra on turn 5, someone will be taking a lot of damage, and essentially does double the damage (or more). And if it survives one more turn, use Vito's ability to give everything lifelink, and watch people die. Granted, I play a bit more spot removal than you, which might work out better in my list. Vizkopa Guildmage is a similar idea, and I need to test it a bit more.

    I also added Emeria's Call, which actually helped me win a game, when I drew 3 mana dorks from my Tymna trigger. I also have Agadeem's Awakening in the deck, which helps me recover after a board wipe, and doubles as a land when I don't need it. Losing 3 life isn't that bad in this deck, for the flexibility that it brings.

    I'm really hesitant to remove Woodland Bellower from my list. I usually keep it in my hand, until I get board wiped. Then I play the Bellower, tutor for Eternal Witness, and grab another threat from my GY. Then play Tymna and start drawing cards again. How's your experience with it?
    I play Genesis Wave in a similar way, to rebuild my board.

    I've also took out Oracle of Mul Daya for Dryad of the Ilysian Grove. The 4 mana on Oracle has always seemed a bit steep, and I feel that there's enough redundancy with the effect. Though it can't play lands off the top, I think I can live with that, and not revealing every card I draw to my opponent.

    Also really interested in how Underrealm Lich has worked for you? Five mana seems really steep. I've progressively decreased the cmc of everything over time.

    Sorry, I don't check in here all that often anymore. This list is one that I think back to fondly from time to time and I have considered rebuilding it a few times. I won't go into a deep dive on potentail adds to this deck but offhand there are a few that come to mind that I would consider:

    • Field of the Dead - This deck runs plenty of types of lands and more creatures in play tend to be great. Its a tad slow but it will give you a lot of late game gas which I think is a positive for this type of deck. This deck has fetches and plenty of lands / draw so this seems great here. The downside of this card tends to be if you draw it in your opening hands / immediately but I think the long term payoff is really high.
    • Speaker of the Heavens - its a one drop so it curves in before Tymna which is great. I always struggled to find enough good one drops. Later in the game it comes in and probably gets to just fire angels everywhere so I like it both early and late which is something I am a big fan of for one drops.
    • Cleansing Nova - I ran a few destroy all artifact / enchantment concepts such as Fracturing Gust. I guess I would at least consider this in place of one of those due to its versatility in that it can still be a wrath if needed.
    • Drannith Magistrate - It fits well with the curve this deck wants and it can completely wreck someone's proactive curve. Its very disruptive and it fits the strong creatures in the 2 or less mana range we want.
    • Hushbringer - Evasive hatebear also fitting the 2 or less mana drop we like to see. I have a hard time including hatebears but hitting ETB and dies triggers might be enough. If you see much for aristocrat decks I actually think the dies trigger might be more relevant than the ETB for me in my current meta but thats probably unusual. I think that this sort of effect is heavily a meta decision as to if you will get enough out of it.
    • Order of Midnight - Its kind of a weird gravedigger but its a two drop with evasion that curves well into Tymna and later on that gravedigger effect might be useful. Its worth consideration at least.

    I mostly looked at cheap creatures in standard to come up with that list. Cleansing Nova is a good card as well that I recalled thinking about shortly after I put my own list away which is the only reason it came to mind for me. Some of the when you gain life triggers lately have gotten better but I don't know if there are any that I would actually include as of right now.

    Vizkopa Guildmage / Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose they seem a little bit winmore to me to be honest. I might have a slight preference of the Guildmage because it curves into Tymna still giving you a two drop but I think that what these creatures do ultimately is a little bit winmore. If you are in a situation where you are attacking for a bunch and gaining a bunch of life already I feel like you are already probably in a good situation. When you aren't set up and doing great things these cards likely aren't going to dig you out of a bad place. I tend to avoid these type of cards often even though I see the potential for when they would work.

    Emeria's Call - I think the mythic rarity cycle of these cards where you can bolt yourself for them untapped are great and should be considered in a lot of lists. The hardest thing is you really have to consider them as sort of a replacement for basic lands so make sure you have plenty of basic lands in the list still too. I think these are great though. I would probably prioritize the black one first, then the green one in a list like this. The white one seems to often be the bottom of the barrel for my own priority but I think they are all fine.

    Woodland Bellower - I think this card is fine. I guess for me its sort of an extra body tutor but the big question is how much you value any specific three drop in your list. I tend to like it a bit more when I have three drops that I have a lot of value behind in a list like say if you have a Selvala, Heart of the Wilds in your 99 at which point you pay six mana to get, put her into play, and have a big creature paired with her to make you a ton more mana. I personally didn't see a ton of value in a chonky six drop creature with no evasions in my own list but I guess it would depend on what creatures you have. With a deck that has as much draw as we can get from Tymna I guess I would be hesitant to run bellower myself as a recovery plan over something like adding Enlightened Tutor which could get you Greater Good or Necropotence for a recovery plan. My point with bellower I guess is more that what you just described seems like a very responsive sit in the hand and rot plan where as you could possibly instead include something like Living Death to accomplish that same thing. I tend to like the bellower a lot more myself when I have proactive gameplans that involve casting it. He tends to be better as well when running some ETB focused concepts.

    Oracle of Mul Daya vs Dryad of the Ilysian Grove - Given that Tymna is a three drop I tend to veer away from three drops a little just because often times my plan on that mana is taken already. I think given how proactive this deck is in that most of the creatures can be played at any time I don't worry about revealing my draws to opponents that much. The fact that we get to stagger more draws with Tymna means that you can rip a land after your draw for the turn as well as after drawing from Tymna so that top deck land peak function is actually quite useful. Beyond that we have plenty of tutors and fetchlands which also give access to additional land drops which is just amazing free value. I get the concern with showing what you draw to opponents but I think that matters a lot more when running more traditional control elements like Swords to Plowshars and Counterspells. Most of our creatures can be played anytime and threaten to take over the board on their own.

    Underrealm Lich - I have played it in a few decks so far and I guess I have not been impressed. I think its a better card for decks that are trying to get resources in the graveyard than it is for draw quality offhand. I have actually killed myself due to this effect before so I guess its also worth saying that it can be a liability as well.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Edgar Markov - Low Mana Curve Build
    Wheel of Misfortune is worse than Wheel of Fortune but it might still be relevant in place alongside it or in place of for budget reasons. I think every meta is going to sort of have a different norm on how much life is paid but I would be surprised if the average second lowest is more than 3-5 I think that the choice of 0-8 life will probably be fairly normal (I haven't played with or against this card yet).

    One of the big reasons that I think the card will be inferior to Wheel of Fortune is the options it gives to opponents. If an opponent has a suck counter to our deck in their hand its far more likely that they refuse to wheel. Taking options away from opponents is part of why Wheel of Fortune is so good. Adding in the option to keep a fantastic hand or trying to go to a new one is vastly inferior as far as disrupting opponents goes. It increases the chance that you run into answers from your opponents and that is why I really can't just blindly say that it will be a good card in here.

    I don't have a definite answer on how the card would work out here because I haven't played with it. I guess this is just my word of warning more than anything. I think the price tag to obtain it is fairly reasonable but I also would not consider it to be anywhere near as powerful as Wheel of Fortune due to the options that it gives your opponents. The life loss effect is cool, I just don't think that on average it will amount to much in comparison to the option to keep a good hand or get a new one.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Edgar Markov - Low Mana Curve Build
    Quote from Benzin13 »
    Ok so i have been an avid edgar player since his release with a list decently close too the ones discussed here and even though this thread is old and dead i wanted to throw my hat in the ring of discussion if anyone sees this and bring up some cards i have found to preform every well that i haven't noticed discussed:

    Underworld Breach: ok so i have always had the mind that considering how cheap stuff is, and edgers eminence needs cast, rebuilding from a boardwipe via recasting is way better than something like command the dreadhorde, and this allows for said cats triggers while rebuilding at a low initial cost of just 2 mana. the obvious downside is being red, being worthless in many other board states and fueling escape can be hard, but even with just regular aristocrat shenanigans it can put in work. def a card that gets better the most madness, sacrifice and fetches but give the first two are sub themes/synergies of the deck and the third is just a mana base staple it isn't that and, plus discard outlets like stromkirk condemned make occasionally dead cards like it have a use.

    Lurrus of the Dream-Den: my current list runs 38 spells lurrus can cast from the yard, which yes is probably very much on the high end but it fuels the aristocrat shenanigans and board wipe rebuilding very well. having lifeline isn't inconsequential either and lures can get back key non-creature pieces that this deck otherwise wouldn't be able to get back one destroyed or discarded such as skullclamp, underworld breach, goblin bombardment, etc. it is slow at only one a turn but allowing for cast gets the tokens back again similarly to athreos (another card i enjoy because unless something when horribly awry there should be one opponent to bully with him)

    Species Specialist: yeah it is expensive at 4 cmc for a non vampire but it is a baordwipe rattlesnake that also rewards aristocrat shenanigans very well with ever important card draw. it also in a way helps get creature through because opponents don't want to kill my tokens with their blockers and just let them through instead of letting me draw to make more.

    Agadeem's Awakening: this just placed a swamp in my mind. yes i did rant twicee about why casting is better than cheating into play without casting but when it is just on the backside of what is effectively a swamp it is better than not having that effect, even if the extra potential burn on ad nauseam and dark confidant and needing 3 health on etc but all that sis minor compared to the times when it is super useful on the spell side. it is rare i will draw it and wish it was a swamp instead, but far more common it would help in a situation a swamp would be worthless.

    also, not worth making a mini rant about but vampiric fury and rally the peasants seem like they should be in a lot more lists. granted bait win more but also both are very useful with he first being absurdly cheap for effect and the latter being patchable to madness and the like yet still usable later.

    Underworld Breach - I am not sure that I would play it over Yawgmoth's Will and I don't play Yawgmoth's. Sure, it saves you one mana in the cost but it seems like it would be hard to chain a bunch of one mana creatures with an added on exile three card requirement. Personally I don't like running any graveyard recursion tactics because they are very responsive and subjective to what your opponents are doing. For the most part they feel like they are counter play to only wraths and don't take into account how drawing cards is usually stronger than playing for recovery. I don't think its terrible but I avoided recursion tactics in general because drawing more cards plays a more proactive game against a lot more tactics than trying to be sticky. I think Breach is a fine card as far as recursion goes and it likely would be one I would at least consider, I just think its better to not play a recursive game. The effects do nothing until you get swept but what if you get in a situation where your creatures are irrelivant or are not surviving passively due to an effect in play like say Pestilence / Ghostly Prison / Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite? Recursion felt too much like it was only an answer to traditional wraths to me so I opted not to run it at all. Card draw can find you tutors or answers to those problems so rather than trying to respond to a problem with a narrow response I opted to push for draw and tutors instead because I felt like they were more generically viable to get me out of numerous issues.

    Lurrus of the Dream-Den - Same issue as above. I also don't like that Lurrus only lets you recur one thing a turn. Its possible I might value him more in a sac based concept as well but as it stands I don't see why I would run Lurrus in this list. He is extremely slow in comparison to a good card engine and primarily in my list would require him to be played after a sweeper which feels like not the angle I would want.

    Species Specialist - I like the effect but four mana on a non vampire is sort of high for me. The card draw from it also feels like something I can't control very well. I think its ok, I just think it fits better in a sac build. Its a bit similar to Liliana, Dreadhorde General whom I do run but I think the fact that she comes with a Barter in Blood effect that opponents likely won't be expecting also pushes her a bit further for me. Given how similar it is to Liliana I really can't say its half bad but I also wish it had something more, was on tribe, or cost less. I also didn't really get to put a lot of testing in with Liliana to really stand behind that card with a lot of confidence.

    Agadeem's Awakening - Yea I think this card is great and I would do that. I am not really playing my list anymore but I think this is a good way to add some recursion to the list. I would totally add this to the list for a swamp.

    Vampiric Fury / Rally the Peasants - I guess my issue with these type of cards is that they don't add that much power or sustain. They are one turn effects and while they might make you kill someone in one shot or make some bad blocks into good ones, they don't feel like they add enough punch or sustainability to the deck. If I am pushing for a big attack I don't really need to save my mana so the low cost of Vampiric Fury doesn't make a lot of sense to me since I don't run a lot of mass haste its unlikely that I play a bunch of things before hand and then need a cheap buff to follow it up. I could for instance run Tears of Rage if I wanted a strong punch one shot effect which I would be a lot more prone to running than either of these cards. A big reason that I don't run a lot of anthems with Edgar though is that Edgar Markov himself is an anthem and I always have access to him. For me that means that I only really want super efficient buffs or ones that fit the theme well enough that I would cast them even outside of me going in for a last attack situation. My goal with this deck is largely to have a high consistency of low cost bodies to abuse with Edgar's free token as well as a high abundance of large tempo draw effects. If I can keep drawing cards and casting cheap creatures I can almost always rely on Edgar Markov himself as an anthem. I would be far more likely to get into tempo ramp tactics such as Dark Ritual / Culling the Weak / Mana Vault / Grim Monolith / Jeweled Lotus to get Edgar out faster than I would allocate more slots to other anthems.

    In the past I probably should have looked more at the tempo ramp into Edgar more than I did. Try to keep the consistency of the deck high though and to do that you want to keep your density of cheap drop creatures and draw high. Its possible I should have cut more of the anthems from the list and turned them into tempo ramp though to push for Edgar more and other anthems less. Jeweled Lotus looks literally really interesting for this type of deck.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Rules committee narrow minded?
    I think that it is true to some extent that the RC's views are narrow but its more so because there is no national meta. Every meta is different with commander and a lot of levels of play exist where as when you look at other formats like modern, standard, legacy there are tournament results to fall back on and in most LGS you will see some level of presence of national meta decks trickle down.

    I don't think its really the RC's fault and I don't really think there is an easy solution to solve it. The concept of the advisor's committee giving additional feedback is a decent idea but I think it far from solves the problem of needing more exposure to more metas for additional sample size data.

    I think as a whole, the RC does a decent job. I personally would prefer a larger banned list but I think given what objectives the RC has set out with they have managed their banned list fairly close to how I would want it given the objective of a smaller banned list.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Best Mardu commander?
    I would also reiterate Kaalia or Edgar. Kaalia in my opinion is only mentioned if you are playing mass land destruction tactics so if you aren't doing that, its Edgar and not even close.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Edgar Markov - Low Mana Curve Build
    Quote from DrunkT »

    Yeah, thats true. Thing is in my meta the group was scared of Markov, so many times they where banging me up as a 3v1 from the start until i was at 10-15 or something so that i could not pay much life for card draw. So i was leaning to try some lifelinkers that are in reality fuel for card draw.

    I haven't played it in a while now... maybe it's time to see if they remember.

    Great to see you again ISBPathfinder, i'm following a couple of your decks. Thanks.

    I am mostly active on MTGNexus these days. I come back here rarely to check on my old lists but I haven't been updating other than responding to people who inquire about my old lists when I do rarely check in.

    Quote from DrunkT »
    Ok, so last night i played two games with Uncle Edgar.
    First one, the group ended me first. Deck was moving smooth and fast, sadly i flooded a little at mid/end game and couldn't finish it so the 3v1 got me. Second game they gave me some space at the beginning and ended up winning.

    As for the lifelinkers inclutions i mentioned, the only one that felt relevant was Tithe Drinker altought it was a fringe case i think, since i was flooding i dumped the excess mana in extort, in fact she ate a removal spell. I guess she stays in my list for the moment, maybe my group wastes another removal spell in her. They tend to hold grudges.

    What you guys think about the new "dual" land cycle? I'm considering Brightclimb Pathway Since black is the primary color in the deck, i like this one because the only one drop i think makes a huge differece on turn one is Serra Ascendant In fact the only fetchland i have is Marsh Flats for the same reason.

    I ran Tithe Drinker in the past. I think its probably one of the more reasonable lifelinkers but even with that I will say that when things are going well, I kind of never used its extort effect which is why I stopped playing it. I do think of the options to have some lifegain its probably one of the more reasonable options to run.

    I have seen a lot of edgar lists run Gifted Aetherborn and that is one of those lifelinkers I have never been able to get behind.

    Brightclimb Pathway - I think its ok but the question is what would you bring it in for? I am down to like 5 or 6 basics tops and while I think cutting a swamp could probably be ok I don't know that I like it over much else.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Edgar Markov - Low Mana Curve Build
    Crap, its been too long since I checked in over here lol.

    Quote from NZB2323 »
    ISBpathfinder, what are your thoughts on Ruinous Ultimatum? I know 7 mana is a lot but it destroys all nonland permanents your opponents’s control and I know you’re running Austere Command. It’s probably an easy replace, right?

    Edit: Also what are your thoughts on Savai Triome?

    Even with the mana cost being similar to Austere Command, I think that the color intensity is off the chart. I also think that even just one more mana when it comes to anything that costs 4 or more is all increasingly difficult for this deck. We run on a low curve so whenever possible I think its better to curve in lower rather than moving curves up.

    Savai Triome is a sweet card. I think there are a lot of decks where it makes sense to run a copy of these tri lands with fetches but unfortunately ETB tapped lands are a problem that get compiled a lot more when you are trying to move fast which this deck is. I think in a budget markov list it could be fine but if you are trying to move as fast as possible I don't think we can justify an always tapped fix land.

    Quote from Drakon »
    I think that instead of focusing on bigger spells I'd like to ask if Bastion of Remembrance might find a slot in this build? It's essentially a 3-CMC Zulaport Cutthroat effect that survives boardwipes and convinently provides a 1/1 body to use for other effects like Phyrexian Altar.

    I've tried my build recently and must say that I'm very impressed with Cordial Vampire and Blood Artist and co. because their incidental value is huge and these small effects were the reason I've won some of my games. That's why I'm wondering about adding another card like this.

    Bastion of Remembrance - I don't hate it. Its still a non vampire card but coming with a free body, being cheap, and accomplishing something we want helps to some degree. Hitting each opponent is also a big deal with aristocrat effects. Some of my issues with aristocrats is that I haven't found quite enough density of sac outlets I like. I would LOVE to find another few Bloodthrone Vampire level sac outlets but its so rare that we get anything new that I would put on that level. I tried doing aristocrats recently and I ended up backing off because I didn't feel like I had the sac outlet density I wanted especially for the mana price I was willing to pay for them.

    Quote from DrunkT »
    I think if you lean your build towards sac outlets and sac payoffs with Yahenni, Undying Partisan, Pawn of Ulamog, Falkenrath Aristocrat and similar stuff, it could be very good.

    I think if it was a 2 CMC i would include it in a heartbeat, but i struggle with a non-vampire 3 CMC spell.


    I did try going down that path a while back and I just found that I couldn't get the consistency out of it that I wanted. I wanted a few more sac outlets and I wanted them to cost a little less as well as a few more payoffs. I think we tend to see some new payoffs but the sac outlets we still struggle with.

    Quote from jakethewhale »
    Thoughts on Subira, Tulzidi Caravanner? She looks like a solid draw option that also happens to give some evasion as a mana sink.

    Subira, Tulzidi Caravanner its cute but its a non vampire and I think that I would more consider her a five drop because I really wouldn't want to just cast her at three and not activate that ability in the same turn. I think that the cost is a little steep and you might be paying a lot of mana to blow up your hand before drawing cards so it could easily end up with overdrawing after tapping out. I think its interesting but I think I would pass.

    Quote from NZB2323 »

    I don’t think any creatures who cost 3 mana and aren’t vampires are worth it.

    Quote from jakethewhale »
    I don't think it's fair to write it off just based on that criteria alone. Using that logic, we also couldn't use Tymna, Purphoros, Iroas, or Yawgmoth

    Quote from NZB2323 »

    The only one of those that I run is Purphoros, who is never a creature in this deck.

    Quote from DrunkT »
    As a budget replacement for Tymna i think it's ok. They are kind of similar, but Tymna it's far superior.

    I think that all non vampires are things to look at and question in this list. I think there is a time and place for several though. Obviously I have had some good results with several that are in my own list but I think its well worth questioning each. There is a question of how efficient an effect is when its on a nonvampire for this deck though. Anything where it has continued mana costs to maintain and do something is going to be a lot harder to justify in my book than something that is a fire and forget one time mana cost.

    The problem with Subira is once your vampires become too big she's a dead card. Also if you want draw immediately, you need to have 5 mana sitting around which Edgar will likely not.
    Not an awful card, but probably one of the last options to consider.

    If you have a swarm of vampires and they are bigger than 2 power then I think you probably don't need more draw :p

    Quote from Drain Life »
    I haven't checked in for some time, so here I am. Over the Covid 19 global crisis and beyond, I have been updating my build and playing through Skype when I can. I always come back to this list to see what is going on and if there is any cool tech to plunder. I am glad that this thread has not been abandoned. As always, this is an inspiration for my budget build.

    My best friend has a Scion of the Ur Dragon deck and it is imperative that I have ways of removing and/or blocking his dragons, or I just lose. Scion can ramp into play by the 4th turn and knock me out through the air on turn 5. Based on the turn order, that gives me 4-5 turns to have an answer or scoop. Similarly, my wife plays Inalla which can ramp on turn two, cast Trophy Mage on turn three and combo on turn 4... in addition to other paths to victory. The best I can do is attack Inalla and try to have removal in the form of Path or StP or something for the Scion.

    You know how much I respect your build, but against the decks I face, I find it better to have some interaction (instant speed removal) and some more anthems such as Glory of Warfare and combat modifiers like Dolmen Gate or Cover of Darkness which were both older tech you had shared before. In my games, it has been less about the fast initial rush as it has been about being mana efficient and having individually strong attacks that go in as unblocked as possible.

    I really feel like the wonderful thing about Edgar Markov is that, depending on your budget and meta, it can be a "Your millage may vary" kind of a deck, and this is a wonderful starting place to see how it fits with your meta. Never stop updating and improving it. I deeply appreciate it.

    I think that every meta has different demands that will get you playing a little different with different tech. Dolmen Gate for instance is fantastic if you play against a lot of other go wide decks but it might not be the card you need if your opponents are playing a bunch of sweepers and control.

    There is nothing wrong with adjusting your list to fit the meta you play in. Spot removal has its place as well, I just think that it is primarily for must answer things which in my book for this deck are threats that are ending the game if not answered or preventing you from playing. The more of that stuff you see the more answers you need. I have been hating on Swords to Plowshares for a few years now from the standpoint that so many of the must answer threats don't feel like they are creatures anymore. They still exist though and if you see something like an Elesh Norn, Consecrated Sphinx, or Seedborn Muse I am more than happy to have and cast that Swords to Plowshares. I just also feel like I see a lot of combo based things where I would rather have a Disenchant or can't be responded to at all with spot removal (looking at you Thassa's Oracle).

    Thanks, I ended up downsizing my collection a little selling off a number of expensive things like going from 4 Mana Crypts to 2 and selling off a lot of duplicate ABU Duels to pay off some debt before my kid was born. I have found it a little harder to have as many active multicolored and or fast decks together after that. Currently my Markov list is not complete but also not put away. I might order a few more Mana Crypts as I do like having another one or two on hand but at that time it was more important to get things payed down. Since then I paid off the house that I sold that I had to take out a loan to cover the sale of, I paid off my car, my student loans, and am within the next few months going to pay off the hospital for my daughter's birth. I am almost debt free so I might be able to pick up some of the things I purged at the time to not be up to my eyeballs in debt lol.

    I think I might have responded to this question on Nexus already but I think it is not because I would want 3-4+ as the hit before I feel I would be happy with it. I feel like it would be sort of rare to hit for more than one as it stands and one to two is not a good result in my book.

    The determining factor is probably comparing the trigger vs just playing another 1 drop or card draw instead. Comparing it to a 1 drop, you could say that in the case of blood-priest you are paying 1 mana for the bodies, and 1 for the drain effect. That means the drain has to on average deal as much damage as simply having two more bodies in play would. There will be times where you have no other party creatures, or you have 2. A fully party is very unlikely. Let us assume then that on average you have a party of 2, which is 6 damage total.
    With pump effects, your vampires will on average be 3/3s. This means that two additional bodies are offering at least a potential 6 damage, possibly more if they attack more than once. The damage potential of just playing two 1 drops instead of this card is better, but I could see the argument that blood-priest dealing direct damage is more reliable.
    In the end, leaning into synergy with the number of bodies in play is probably the better direction as it is what Edgar is best at. It is much easier to optimize for a wide board than it is having a 3+ party. Blood-Priest is by no means a BAD card, but if you have a refined deck list there probably isn't anything worth cutting for it.

    I agree.

    Quote from DrunkT »
    This is interesting just as a 2 drop. I've been favoring a couple of lifelinkers in the deck and this is an upgrade.

    Life is a resource, being an aggro deck generally speaking I usually feel like we haven't been fast enough before my own life total is an issue and by then its hard for a little bit of lifegain to be what keeps us in. Use up the life and move faster. If you run out, its usually because it took too long to kill everyone.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Jenara EDH deck- No Budget
    What would you think about adding Hadana's Climb? I am not normally one for trying to make Jenara better outside of her own ability but it flips to be a reasonable land and the activated ability of the land is really kind of spooky.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Edgar Markov - Low Mana Curve Build
    Crescendo of War is cool, but its slow to spin up. In a lot of cases with the more expensive cards and really non vampires in general you want a fast return on investment. Four mana is manageable but waiting a turn to get value back while being very obvious about what you are doing isn't great.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Edgar Markov - Low Mana Curve Build
    Quote from Drakon »
    Hi ISBP! What are your thoughts about Heraldic Banner? Could it be considered another anthem effect for Vampires (which are mostly black)?

    At three mana its not really great ramp for the deck. I guess you could get away with running it but it feels like kind of bad ramp / bad anthem mushed together. Maybe that's good enough but I wouldn't normally run a three mana ramp or three non creature vampire anthem for the most part in this list. Getting both I guess is a thing but I am not really excited about it. I think there are a lot of other ramp or anthem effects that compete with it is all.

    I think its far from a terrible inclusion. I just think that there isn't a huge reason to run it when comparing with other ramp or anthems. Even just a +1/+1 anthem has some amount of advantage in that you then don't still 1 for 1 trade with a token deck. I did kind of questionably recently add Arcane Signet to my list which I guess I could maybe see going with the Banner instead but to be honest, that is something I am far from confident in here anyways.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Edgar Markov - Low Mana Curve Build
    Quote from ArgonathDK »
    Thank you so much for your answer. They make so much sense, and I almost feel stupid when you explain it, cause it just seem SO obv Smile

    Do you run Dech Tech's on youtube or anywhere else, that one can follow?

    Thanks again, this is SO much help.

    No problem, I really haven't done much with the original post in conveying a lot of this. I kind of backed off on trying to be the person to make a Primer on this in part because after I really got it where I wanted I backed off on it as its faster than I often want to try to be for average games of commander.

    I primarily post to MTGNexus these days but I haven't done any work with this over there in part because while I have not retired this deck, again I am not really seeing tons of changes these days with it nor am I playing it as much. I kept everything for Markov over here given I wasn't really making big strides with it of late and a lot of the history of it was here.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Edgar Markov - Low Mana Curve Build
    Quote from ArgonathDK »

    Thank you so much. I already had my eyes on Yawgmoth, but I have never played with Necropotence even though I know it's a very strong card. To be honest I don't quiet understand the card, and how to use it, but know I guess I have to learn Smile

    I see btw that you almost don't run any removal. Do you rely on pushing through with your Vampires, or that your other opponents just takes care of it? I quickly find my self as the arch nemesis in the game, for obvious reasons, so ppl are hesitant when it comes to remove anything that works against me, meaning I almost always have to fight my own battles, and can't rely on politics like with other decks.

    Does this deck only win if one doens't run into too many wipes? What was your game plan?

    How do you feel about Selfless Spirit as a little protection? It even keeps the curve down.
    Also, I see you run Obelisk of Urd, so how do you feel about Venerated Loxodon in the deck?

    Necropotence - essentially it lets you refill your hand every turn at the cost of life. Being that you are the aggro player use your HP pool to get yourself resources. The way you lose the game tends to be because you run out of resources or the game goes long rather than health hitting zero. I mean, eventually you die to hp hitting zero but its usually because you failed at your primary goal of being the aggressor.

    Removal - I run a little bit. My answer is to kill the player that is being the problem rather than removing their things. Don't try to answer everything, just run people down and answer what you have to. Its part of why most of the answers I do run are very versatile in targeting instead of having things like Swords to Plowshares. Who cares whats in play if you are killing that player through it. Target priority and killing the right person first is a big thing too.

    Wraths - Keep drawing cards and you will be fine. I can think of some games where I would eat a wrath every turn and be fine because I kept my draw going. If you stop drawing that is when a wrath will wreck you.

    Selfless Spirit - Its ok. Keep in mind that it won't protect from every type of wrath and wraths aren't the only thing that can cause problems. An opponent walks right through this with a Toxic Deluge for example. Personally I think that people over focus the idea of wraths as the problem for this deck and my issue with most wrath protection effects is how they are often situational or require mana to stay up and be responsive. Selfless is far from the worst of these and I think if you want to run it its probably fine, just be aware of the drawbacks of it as well. Most anything that isn't a vampire in some way or another competes for a slot in the list.

    Obelisk of Urd / Venerated Loxodon - I haven't gotten enough testing in with Obelisk to really comment much on it. I have been playing the list a bit less of late but I think the difference between Obelisk and Loxodon are quite big. Keep in mind that you can have any number of vampires taking the buff of Obelisk which is also twice as powerful as Loxodon and you can attack with the improved power of Obelisk this turn where as Loxodon has a big wait before its buff picks up given you just tapped down the ones you buffed. While I am still not sure how I feel about Obelisk, I would say that Loxodon is less than 1/4 as good in my mind for the deck.

    Quote from jakethewhale »
    What do you think about Rankle, Master of Pranks? His ability to sacrifice creatures seems good to keep opponents' boards clear while we have tokens to spare. If opponents don't have threatening creatures, the hand attack can be strong, and we likely run enough draw to compensate anyway.

    Rankle, Master of Pranks - Outside of the fact that its a 4 mana non vampire, yea I dig it. All of the effects are relevant for the deck. I guess my issue is that I don't know that it does enough for a 4 mana non vampire. We are trying to move so fast and every turn we tend to have a lot of demands on our mana. Its nice that he has haste and does his thing quickly, I guess I just don't see it as something that will add up fast enough to pay for itself and the value over time or off of curve seems questionable to me.

    I have been kind of lazy when it comes to updating this list. I have known for a while I wanted to make a few changes so I am going to push a few through after giving them some more thought.


    • Dark Confidant -> Arcane Signet - as much as I hate to admit it, Dark Confidant hasn't been stellar. He costs less than Phyrexian Arena but has all of the same issues and dies to a lot of the things that sweep my board as well. I wasn't exactly on the hype train for Arcane Signet when it came out but having played it in a few other decks I think it probably is the right to pick it up here. Only costing a single mana the turn I play it because it taps for mana and fixes for me makes it cost very little and give me fixing and ramp at just too cheap of a cost. I still don't think I would want the other signets but this one is so much superior to all the others its not even fair.
    • Falkenrath Aristocrat -> Champion of Dusk - Falkenrath Aristocrat is close to what I would call a pet card of mine. I really am fond of what it does. That said, I think the payoff for sac vampires is still not quite there. If there were more incentive to have that sacrifice on demand it might be different. Without more death trigger vampires in the chaper costs though I just haven't been happy enough to pay this much for this effect. I think I will give Yahenni, Undying Partisan a little longer to test in part because he has some natural stat growth that seems appealing. I had wanted to push my draw up a little more which gets me back to bringing Champion back in.
    • Judith, the Scourge Diva -> Universal Automaton - Judith was...... close on several occasions to being what I was looking for but I still found her a little lacking primarily on the fact that she wasn't a vampire. With adding more draw to the list and some of that shifting the curve up I just kind of want to drop some mana here and there and increase the vampire count.
    • Pawn of Ulamog -> Adanto Vanguard the death triggers plan just wasn't panning out. I wanted to drop the curve down a little where I can which got me to this change.
    • Ad Nauseam -> Bolas's Citadel The more I thought about it, Ad Nauseam just costs a bit too much mana given some of the new options. The fact that it costs me 5 mana and a bunch of life and I still need to cast the things I draw just put me sort of questioning if this is where I wanted to be. I haven't tested Citadel out yet and the more I thought about it I think I kind of like the option to use my life to cast things directly to play.

    I guess thats all for now. I need to get some more testing in with all these new changes.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Edgar Markov - Low Mana Curve Build
    Quote from ArgonathDK »

    I totally agree with this, and that everyone has to be at the same powerlevel. I just think that some ppl rate markov higher than he is, due to them not running board wipes, removal etc. and it just sounded like you didn't play it due to it's speed. This makes alot more sense Smile

    Anyway, if it's not too much to ask, could I then get you to have a look at my current deck version, and make suggestions? The cards in my "Maybe" list are cards that I own and bought at the very beginnning before I read your post here, and decided to go low curve Smile

    I'm also willing to buy more cards, but atm there is no room for mana crypt and cards at a simular price.

    I really appriciate all your help. My current playgroup likes the pressure from this deck, and are running decks at the same powerlevel, so don't feel shy suggesting powerful cards , muhahaha Smile

    My best advice is to continue to try to lower your curve while increasing the number of cards you can draw without paying mana for them. Necropotence is probably the most busted card in my list and if you were to ask me what all the tutors I run are for, its mostly to get my hands on this card. When you spin up this card its not unheard of for me to try to play 4-6 cards a turn every turn until it is answered. I will often mulligan looking for hands that have good draw or a tutor. Once you get your hands on a copy of this card my next suggestion would be to add Yawgmoth, Thran Physician. I will still probably tutor for Necropotence over Yawgmoth but I have still been incredibly pleased with the performance of Yawgmoth so far.

    This deck lives on having a low curve and busted card draw. If you can just keep focusing in on doing that better it really will run really smooth.

    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Edgar Markov - Low Mana Curve Build
    Quote from ArgonathDK »

    Sorry for not responding before now, but have been out sick.

    Thank you so much, for your very in depth answer, it was really helpful, and when I asked my self alot of the questions you asked, then I have to agree with you.

    Two questions though Smile

    You say that you are not playing it due to it being a bit fast in your current meta, so my question is....isn't that the point of an aggro deck? Imo its a valid strategy, and even in a steady playing group, ppl will have to be ready for all tactics, it being mill or aggro. Agreeing on not playing aggro leads to deck building that are unatural imo, bc ppl are then able to build around it, and not care. The deck is fast yes, the Emminence trigger is powerful yes, but imo not overpowered. I think ppl rate the powerlevel higher than it sohuld be only due to them not having any aggro answers in their deck.

    I would very much like to hear your thoughts on this Smile

    Last question is about one last Enchantment, and you will properbly just tell me the same as you did above, but I have just found my selv in several situations now, where this would have helped me to push through, giving a flying vampire this buff, or a non-blockable one.

    Angelic Exaltation

    Once again, thank you so much for this thread. Having only played Commander for 3-4 months, this is the thread I have enjoyed the most, and I still play my Markov deck with big excitement Smile

    Aggro - I don't have a problem being an aggro player. My issue is more that if you sit down repeatedly and goldfish your opponents there is probably a disparity between the power levels of the decks being played. I like building powerful decks but I like it when I still sit down to a game of magic with opponents that has a back and forth. Its true that aggro can be a less interactive archetype but at a point I am just being cruel to the other players. I own plenty of decks that would have a hard time playing against my own vampire deck but sometimes its like playing a tuned out 75% list against a casual deck I feel bad about doing. When I tend to play my vampires it tends to be against some of the better players and I often mention that I am stepping it up because I do want to have a challange rather than see if I can goldfish the new players so to say. Some other challenge has been that I sold off some of my collection so in some cases what used to be 4 Mana Crypts became 2 so some of my resources are shared so I have to determine where I want those for the week or I have to try to push them around between games. I tend to sort of prepair my decks for the week ahead of time rather than on the fly moving stuff. I am not against playing aggro, I just like to be on a similar page of power level when I play if that makes sense. When I need to do testing and improvements to a deck I tend to give a little more room for testing but I am at a point where the list as a whole doesn't need a lot of proving or testing anymore.

    Angelic Exaltation - The effect can be amusing to send in an evasive creature for a bunch but the loss of damage from having the same card be an anthem is very real. Also when you consolidate your attack like this you become a lot more susceptible to spot removal or a maze effect. Its an interesting concept but where the payoff would really be would be if your opponents have a lot of blockers for you or using it like a psudo haste outlet in that you could have a bunch of new creatures contribute immediately. Still though, I don't think that taking a slot for a non vampire gives enough in this case over just jamming an anthem here.

    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
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