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Magic Market Index for May 24th, 2018
Treasure Cruisin' Shalai Brawl
Ravnica: The Broken Guildpact
  • posted a message on What to do if noone plays blue...
    I guess my suggestion would be to diversify. Its fine to like blue and to do those things but if you can step away from that and have other decks and strategies that you also run it helps to not get burned out as bad.

    As for if I were your opponents, I would run value generation and your 1 for 1 counterspells wont be able to keep up in multiplayer for long. Running a lower curve with more value and synergy is how you overcome a lot of countermagic and answers. You can outvalue answers with synergy and moving fast with small value and cheaper spells.

    It sounds like they are likely playing with big splashy cards rather than moving with synergy.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Battlebond Seems Like It Will Be A Good Masters Set
    Quote from RedGauntlet »

    Well there were more expectations for masters sets because of higher pricing

    There also was no precedent given that the original MM set was probably worth more than MM2015 and had a lower MSRP. When they led off with a strong mythic spoils I assumed it was good to go but then we got mediocre rares and a bad string of uncommons in comparison to the original MM set.

    I am just saying that there is a very low risk in waiting a few more days before but still a risk in jumping the gun.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Battlebond Seems Like It Will Be A Good Masters Set
    I would say its too early to tell. Its nice to see those but if the follow up with a bunch of $5 or less mythics it will fall on its face. It's nice to see but I guess just wait and see how it pans out. I remember jumping the gun on MM2015 thinking the same and getting burned.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from Weebo »
    This seems like a great product for TNN. It's too good for 1v1 limited formats and not good enough for/unfun in free for all multiplayer formats. 2HG means it's powerful without being unbeatable. The worst thing I can say about its inclusion is that it might have been safe at rare.

    There is nothing about Doubling Season that dictates it needing to be mythic either. Honestly it seems like they just jump rarity on cards of worth these days.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Regna & Krav
    Yea sorry you can target someone else to search for the partner. I misspoke.

    If you are playing them as commanders then yes they both start in the command zone. The functionality to search for the partner was mostly made so that they still had a tie in for formats other than commander. You can in fact have your partner search for the other partner though as well or if you ever wanted in commander you could target an opponent assuming such a play would ever have a point.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Regna & Krav
    Your creatures are your creatures. You can only sacrifice creatures you control.

    When looking at 2HG keep in mind that the Partner with mechanic searches your library for the partner. So if you play one of them and have the other in your deck you get to search the other up. In commander you can run both of them as your commander.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from cryogen »
    TNN is a head scratching reprint in Battlebond.

    Me: I name Opponent A. <attacks opponent team>
    Opponent B: I block TNN with my creature.
    Me: This did not work out as planned.


    Seems purely like a money grab. This is not the product for that card.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    I just don't find Ravnica to be all that compelling of a block either. We just got Dominaria and it was really cool and when I compare what we got in that one set to what we got from 3 sets of RTR I find myself wishing we were not going to spend so much time going back to ravnica.

    As a random side note I finally brought myself to buying some new stuffs for my computer. I am finally getting a mousepad (I have not had one the past 3 years) and I sprung for a XXXL pad to see how having room and a pad feels. It has been several years now but I bought a gaming keypad as I want to see how it might work on a FPS game. Wayyyy back I used a gaming keypad back when I used to play wow and it was very useful for giving me access and less fumbling about than I have on a keyboard.

    I attached a picture of the one I bought for reference (and for those who don't know what I am talking about).
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Unreleased and New Card Discussion
    Pir's Whim - WOW thats a good card. It has so much tempo to it giving ANY land into play plus hindering opponents by potentially shattering multiple artifact / enchantments for 4 mana. It is a little debatable between this card and Hour of Promise but its possible that this new version has more power to it. I often have one land I want and the second is just gravy with Hour but it depends on if you are trying to get like Coffers + Urborg with it. Overall, I think the power of this card is huge.

    Astonishing Reversal - this card makes me want to rebuild Toshiro Umezawa. I totally get that this card exiles itself but the fact that I used to play sort of a draw / go style of build makes me think of how fun it would be to sit behind this effect. It has the problem of a super niche fog but still, I think this is such a cool and interesting effect.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Daretti the Degenerate - Amonkhet Update
    Quote from Guerte »

    I apologize for not responding when you first suggested it. That really does seem bonkers here. I’m definitely going to try it out.

    I think I’m gonna cut some of the lockout cards, like Blood Moon and the Orb/Clock lock. Thoughts?

    From the standpoint of them being good.... I wouldnt.... from the standpoint of them being jerk moves I would...

    It really comes down to what your intent is. From a standpoing of playing hard to win then no you should not cut them but if you want to make a deck that is more friendly to play against you might.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Gisa & Geralf's Ghouls Galore
    In a pinch,

    Bant Panorama, Esper Panorama, Grixis Panorama, Jund Panorama, Naya Panorama and the older cycle of Bad River, Flood Plain, and Rocky Tar Pit can all fetch dual lands. It might not seem huge but I could see some of these coming in over things like Evolving Wilds (as the lands still enter tapped but they cant get duals. The Panoramas have the advantage as well of being able to tap for mana the turn they are played if you don't want to fetch.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Daretti the Degenerate - Amonkhet Update
    Quote from Guerte »
    After going through the newest sets, the only card I can imagine going in here would be Karn, Scion of Urza. Kinda sad to be honest. Mox Amber doesn’t do much here. Jaya Ballard’s second ability is the only thing we’d really use.

    Does anyone have any thoughts?

    Pirate's Pillage has been amazing for me. It really doesn't cost any more than Tormenting Voice but it gives two artifacts that can be used to store mana or cycled with the commander. You also get to set up a rez off of it with the discard effect of the card. I really can't sing its praises loud enough. Its a card I have started using a lot more in general and I think it has a real home in Daretti.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Deckbuilder / Deckviewer Bugs / Feedback
    Quote from Quilt »
    I have some feedback:

    1. When building a deck with the paste button, the cards that are put into my deck automatically don't make much sense.
    Very often a rare promo is added, instead of versions with much more common printings.
    I don't know how the software chooses which version/set is picked when a pasted card is added, but can't it be configured that it will pick one of the main sets?
    An alternative could be to add the cheapest card, since prices are known.

    Our system as it is designed pulls the last added version of a card to the list (which is often the promos). There are some cases where we throw out our DB and pull everything fresh which happens infrequently but it can sometimes pull them in out of order of when they were printed as well. We have put in a request to be able to set the auto populate set of cards but as of right now its not something we can do.

    I understand the frustration with this and I guess the best I can say right now is that you can manually change it to another version if any of them are annoying to you. Its not a great solution but it is something that is on our list of requests as I think the default choice of version probably should never be a foil promo version.

    Quote from Quilt »
    The main deck lists the lands as 'basic land'. (See attached screenshot).
    This is a flaw, in my opinion. Magic has a very clearly defined concept on what 'basic land' is, and not all lands are basic land.
    I suggest to use the header 'lands' instead.

    It is on our list of requests to fix but it requires a developer to change it which currently we do not have any active development as of right now. The curse devs have many projects and right now they are working on another site but we have been compiling things like this for them for when we do get dev time again. It is on the list I guess is all I can say.

    Quote from Quilt »
    The deck tags are not clickable.
    When clicking these tags, I expect to navigate to search results for other decks that share this tag.

    I am not sure that that is really a bug but a difference in design. The combo box is right above and its fairly quick and easy to pick a deck type to search.

    Quote from Quilt »
    (see three)
    The name of the deck creator is not clickable.
    I expect that when I click on the name of a deck creator, that I will browse to search results for all the decks created by that user.

    Again, I am not sure that is a bug but a difference in design. You can click on a deckbuilder but it will give you their profile. Once you are at a user's profile you can click on "decks" as a tab which will pull up their decks.

    Quote from Quilt »
    Decks overview.
    The column header 'deck type' is not sortable. I expect that this header functions the same way as other headers, namely that clicking on them will sort the table.

    Alternative sorting options such as sorting alphabetically within a section is something we have requested as an option. I am not sure that I fully understand what you are asking for though if not that. They asked us how a deck should be sorted and the decision was that by cmc and alphabetically within that was a good default.

    Quote from Quilt »
    Decks overview.
    The number of decks on a page is not counted.
    I expect to see how many decks there are on a page. This could be included in the navigation buttons at the bottom.

    I think its always 20 per page. I am not sure that listing a number up to twenty is really that helpful. It might be more reliant to number how many results came back but even that I am not sure if it would really be that helpful that we need to ask a developer to add it.

    Quote from Quilt »
    There are no card-tag buttons in the edit bars of the text fields.
    Can these be added?

    We have a number of requested improvements for the additional information boxes that are provided including that. We want each box to ideally have all the functionality you normally have when posting. The tags all still work in those sections (I think all of them do at least) so you can manually type a tag out and it works its just a huge pain that they did not put all of the functionality in each box. Again its on the list of requests of the devs.

    Quote from Quilt »
    Even more feature request:

    Allow users to set the converted mana cost of a spell by themselves.
    I want Everflowing Chalice in my mana curve as a 2 (or 4). I want Flame Javelin as a three in my mono-red deck, and not as a six.
    This is a feature that can make mtgsalvation stand out from the competition: correct mana curves.

    To be honest, I am not really sure how difficult that would be to program in for the devs. It might also be a little misleading to readers when a card could have multiple casting costs and be in multiple places. I do understand what you mean though and it would be nice to put it in the right place and not artifically increase your average CMC and what not because of a mechanic that it can't nicely take into account.

    I will mention and pass it along but I suspect the answer is that it might not be something we can control. We probably could set the cmc as a hard number in our DB as to where it shows up but then it might be inaccurate in the opposite way. I suspect this one would be tricky for us to do.

    Quote from Quilt »
    Sort by mana curve in the deck overview screen.
    The average mana cost of a deck is already calculated.
    One could make the header of column that contains the mana curves a clickable header, where the table gets sorted on average mana cost when clicked.

    I am not entirely sure I understand your request here. Some have requested some additional functionality for the graphs and to my understanding they are not intended to be interactive. It is possible that some sort of interactive grid could be cool but it is far enough out in terms of requests that I doubt we would look into it as right now our concern is more tied to fixing bugs and getting things working as intended.

    Quote from Quilt »
    Evaluate the use of the 'quick info' and 'general' text boxes for the deckbuilder.
    My gut feeling says that there is a huge overlap between both, and that having only one could suffice.

    All of the text boxes are something we would love to get to change. It is very odd that we have 5 boxes with pre defined headers. There is a request (I am not sure how likely it will get done) that we do away with all or possibly all but one of the boxes and let users put custom header names on them.

    This is probably a lower priority request though in that technically there is nothing broken about it. Its more that these sections would be far more helpful if they could be customized and users could add and or remove sections as they needed. It depends on how much work it would be for such a rework and how much benefit would come from it.
    Posted in: Forum Software Feedback and Bug Reports
  • posted a message on Squee's Fun-geon
    So, I got some testing in earlier this week and I did some talking to Tryno (he still does not have his cards with him since he moved) about how it was playing for me. There were a large number of things I wanted to change but the big thing was that I wanted to focus more on the cards that are working well for the deck. Some cards like Tormenting Voice for instance might not seem like a lot but they are flexible in that you can throw away big expensive cards early on or filter away lands later. They are cheap to cast and let you be more flexible with your hand. I am not entirely sure they are the way to go but moving forward I wanted to try to push some of the cards out that felt like they were not great even in ideal situations and push more for what seems like it will work and push to draw into those cards.

    Ideally if we could we would run some better draw effects but outside of wheels red has these sort of filtering effects and then you are into colorless artifact card advantage. I think I still have room to investigate and look into artifacts deeper but offhand the card advantage artifacts I have feel about right.

    Some of the focus moving forward is to come up with more situations where with fewer cards we can accomplish more things. Some concerns we had was that while some of the cards we had could be good, they required many more cards to be combined for that situation to arise.

    Deck Change:

    • Hoarding Dragon -> Tormenting Voice: There was the question of how much we wanted any one artifact. Paying five mana and needing a sac outlet when we won't really be abusing creatures is a little awkward. Instead we wanted to move some cheap filter into the list and see if it helps move the list along.
    • Heirloom Blade -> Wild Guess: The blade proved to be kind of a lot of mana to play and then equip each time. There is some value to it but it is fairly specific in what it gets and we only have so many goblins in the list.
    • Godo, Bandit Warlord -> Cathartic Reunion: Godo was in here almost 100% to get skullclamp and we just were not sure that we could justify the cost to get just that one card. There are a few others like Sword of the Animist but by the time you get to 6 mana to cast godo it looks less appealing to pay 6 mana to go get it.
    • Vedalken Orrery -> Pirate's Pillage: Sometimes having mass flash / haste is huge. This list just did not seem to care as much as some of the other mono red projects we had done previously and giving up a card to have flash seems a little risky given how much hate it brings down on itself. I love Orrery but its a question of if it pulls the weight of the hate it brings to itself and in this list I was not sure that it would justify a card drawn. The fact that Pirate's Pillage costs 3R instead of RR like Wild Guess is actually an advantage as it means we can filter colorless mana and or store mana between turns. I think its one of the cooler filters of late and I want to give it a shot.
    • Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician -> Azor's Gateway: Ib is really cool and there are a lot of things where landing Ib can end the game for you. My problem was more that every time I drew him he was bad. He seems like a goblin that you tutor for when he is right and any other time I saw him he was just something that rotted in hand. There totally are times where you might be sitting on a boardstate where resolving him and his tokens ends the game I just had a hard time making room for him right now given that it was a very specific setup for him to work out.
    • Goblin Welder -> Faithless Looting: Most of our artifacts are good but they are value over time artifacts. Some of them are better than others but the welder is slow and a big target. I found him to be slow and rather reactive in this list where I tend to like him more when there are proactive things I want to be doing with him. The way I was trying to use him here made it a question of if something like Daretti, Scrap Savant.
    • Knollspine Dragon -> Bontu's Monument: Knollspine was just so expensive to cast and very winmore in that he usually seemed good if the deck was doing good. Bontu's Monument should act like another Impact Tremmors with the difference being its interaction with tokens to which we only have Krenko and Siege Gang left in the list that make tokens. Overall I think it should be a similar effect and the little bit of lifegain on the monument might make a difference.
    • Expedition Map -> Aetherflux Reservoir: I just found that there was not as much utility to the landbase as I wanted to play the map. When I run the map I generally want there to be a high priority land like a big mana land or something to speed me into action faster and I am not convinced that there is a nonbasic we need enough to run the map. Nykthos is probably the biggest hit we have and even when I was doing well this last week it was never tapping for more than like 6 I think at its highest. I think there is room to play sort of a Squee storm based plan with the Reservoir. We don't have much to recover life and the ability to fire up a bunch of lifegain and then fire the cannon off to kill players is a real thing for this deck.
    • Helm of Possession -> Scrabbling Claws: Overall, we had some concerns with how much mana it was for the helm as well to use it. Beyond that we need something to sac and something to sac the creature we steal to because most of my experiences with this card is that it gets answered the turn it gets played. We have lots of goblin sac outlets but lots of those won't transfer all that well to a card like this. Scrabbling Claws is a cheap cantrip that also serves an important role.
    • Golden Guardian -> Thermopod: I love Golden Guardian and I think its a really cool card. That said, the fact that our creatures are small means we need a small creature to fight and kill and then a sac outlet to throw it to. Its an interesting card but this might not be the best list for it. Thermopod seems a bit expensive to cast but its an effect I find myself wanting more of.
    • Divergent Transformations -> Tuktuk Scrapper: when we brought in the transformations I thought that I would want to use it on squee more than it turned out I did. We run a lot of funky little goblins that sometimes need the right timing. Overall I just found myself not that impressed with it. Tuktuk Scrapper might not seem huge but we have a ton of ways to tutor for it which I think I am more interested in than the ability to value shatter multiple artifacts.
    • City of Shadows -> Scavenger Grounds: I drew and had some issues with the city. Early in the game I had other things I was trying to do and city requires a lot of attention to bring up to speed. The turn you play it you can't get any mana out of it and given we are not really a token deck it has the problem that every time you use it you need to cast another creature (probably squee). The amount of negative tempo it has is actually sort of staggering when I actually had it in hand I found I could never play it over another land. The one time I got it early I also happened to have Squee equipped up with a Sword of the Animist and the additional cost to re equip to trigger my land there was just not going to happen. I had thought that City would be better early but I found that its just overall too much negative tempo without a commander like Derevi, Empyrial Tactician who can untap it to use it multiple times in a turn. I was a bit surprised that there really seemed to be very little graveyard dependence that I had with hits deck so adding Scavenger Grounds takes up very little room in the list but it gives me an emergency answer to graveyard abuse.
    • Mountain -> Flamekin Village: I think there is a little bit of wiggle room to toy with some different land configs. The village does ETB tapped but it still gives red and we have three creatures (Goblin Sharpshooter, Krenko, Mob Boss, and Moggcatcher) that care about haste. I noticed in some situations I was hesitant to play them without haste or flash. I think its a small concession to make this swap as the ETB tapped doesn't hurt me much as I don't have much of it and being a nonbasic land only matters slightly on 2/3 of the mana doublers.

    So, there it is I guess. That is a bunch of changes that we made. I still need to get in a bunch of testing to see how things are working out. I will try to get at least one good length game again this next week for this deck. We want to toy with some of the filtering effects and we considered a lot of things we could delve into along these lines as well. For now though the filter is a hope to move the deck along towards cards we need at that point in time. Our sac outlets and cost reducers for example both have a diminishing return beyond the first with some being better than others but still we often don't want to play more than one at a time due to issues with sweepers. Filtering out surplus and or digging for what we need can help with this.

    We probably have more room to consider other options too in filtering. We considered some others like Smuggler's Copter but there was the concern of how long it may take to start filtering cards with it given that it will be summoning sick and if you don't curve it in early it might feel clunky. I think there is room to dig deeper into some cycling / filter as well which we will try to do a bit deeper when we can.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from Weebo »
    Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay are both format defining cards for other formats and EDH playable. Supreme Verdict, Sphinx's Revelation, Voice of Resurgence, Cyclonic Rift, Vandalblast, Chromatic Lantern, Crypt Ghast, Boros Charm, and Rest in Peace are all very solid EDH cards (if a little meta dependent for some). Aurelia, the Warleader and Prime Speaker Zegana are reasonably common generals and fixtures in the 99 of a lot of decks. There are another 4-6 generals that I still see on a regular basis. There are an easy dozen more cards that see niche play. DGM may have been a pretty bad set outside of Voice unless you're one of the people who likes playing Maze's End, but the block on the whole added a lot to the format.

    Yea.... I heard Cyclonic Rift / Crypt Ghast out of that.

    A few of those cards are playable in commander still but.... ehhhh. There is nothing wrong with Wrath of God but its not particularly great. So if you actually have issues landing wraths Supreme is ok but shy of that.... meh.

    Vandalblast - its a good card at what it does, its just a question of if paying 5 mana and giving up a card is worth how narrow it can be at times. Its so powerful but it also asks the question of how often you are getting a heap of artifacts with this card and or that the artifacts are the problem you need to answer. Its powerful, just not flexible.

    Chromatic Lantern - this card is almost entirely a budget card. If you have a good landbase its almost always just a bad stone. The worst part of it is that its not that cheap to buy and yet it still is not that good of a card lol.

    Boros Charm - I have yet to ever see a deck I have felt this card belongs in for commander. Great modern card I guess though.

    Rest in Peace - its a great card, the question is if you have enough draw and are not using the grave enough to worry about this yourself. Too often I find that I use my graveyard or that I don't have enough draw to run it.

    Abrupt Decay - it gets better when playing in metas with more combo. Its still a good card, but I actually don't believe I have seen anyone play it in commander to date. It doesn't help that I essentially never play GB.

    Deathrite Shaman - it can be good.... but its slow and fragile. In slower battlecruiser decks it feels not great so it seems to fit more into a faster type of commander or in formats that have essentially all banned it.

    Really I think of RTR and its like..... Cyclonic was there...... the end.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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