MTG Salvation

Ooh, this definitely tips Tibalt over the edge now, right? Right?

Soul of New Phyrexia or Scuttling Doom Engine?

Some context--I removed Wurmcoil Engine from my cube a while back for being too automatic a pick, and too stifling for aggro to fight through. I've been trying Scuttling Doom Engine recently, and it's been fine. Not fantastic, but fine.

Is Soul of New Phyrexia better, though?

(I also try to wait until rotation to buy many of my cards, so I'm only now looking seriously at the M15 cards. Any other suggestions for hidden value gems there?)

To take wtwlf's Phyrexian Arena thought experiment, I think he and TTF are saying "Phyrexian Arena would be worse if it had three loyalty and could be attacked, all other things being equal." Which is true. Salmo is saying "Phyrexian Arena would be better if it had "if destroyed, gain three life, all other things being equal." Which is also true. This world of odd counterfactuals is confusing!

A quick aside on how I try to weigh the drawback of giving your opponent a choice: Punisher cards are always worse than they would be if the opponent didn't have a choice, clearly. This is why they are vastly undercosted for their effects--Wizards bakes this into their design, and makes Vexing Devil when it would never make a 4/3 for R. But since opponents don't always make the right choice, the value you get from the card is in an ambiguous space between the BCS----WCS poles. And I think that the more complex the card and the more confusing the game state it engenders, the more mistakes your opponent might make, and the closer to the BCS the average value of the card is. If you think of planeswalkers as punisher cards, they're on the complex-misplay-provoking side of the spectrum, so the drawback of giving the opponent a choice is (relatively) mitigated.

Sorry for getting so far off topic...

This card has inspired me to bring Reckless Charge back. It might never happen, but I think I'll be forcing UR tempo for awhile...

In my experience, particularly with newer players or old players recently reintroduced to the game, people very frequently play suboptimally against planeswalkers. They feel like such a threat to folks to leave unmolested that even when my life total is in the red zone, they take a turn to eliminate the 'walker "just in case."

Something about the card type seems to provoke an overreaction, it seems. So yes, bad play--but I've come to count on the virtual lifegain they provide in close matches.

Getting back to the OP's post, cost is a huge issue, though. I started my cube with a box of draft rejects and $50, and played that thing to death, and had a great time. I've slowly ratcheted up the power level over the years with gifts, small purchases, trades, and donations from people who play the cube. But frankly, I probably had 90% of the fun with 10% of the cost with my original iteration. I always tell people just to build something and start drafting it. It's pretty much impossible not to have fun, and tinkering with the balance of the cube is endlessly interesting. And that way, you'll figure out if you and your playgroup actually like playing with powerful cards enough to spend the money, or even print a proxy.

Quote from ColbyCube »

What's up with this guy's shoulderpads? Like, why have these ridiculously oversized things that are just gonna get in the way of everything?

He can shrug dramatically to entirely enclose his head for protection. Obviously.

Oh, and this card is fantastic--I just hope it doesn't fit into any standard or modern deck, and it's not prohibitively expensive.

I'm doing my first online rotisserie draft of my cube, and realized that ten of the first sixteen picks could be hit by Disenchant. It is only not maindecked in GW decks with multiple ETB-disenchant effects.

Yep, Phantom Centaur is an awesome card, but like Star Slayer, the pro:color creatures simply led to too many hard feelings. I'd still be playing it otherwise.

I came here to talk up Helm of Possession, but it's already been done. My cube is a tick slower than most, and it's a total bomb there, as well as a fan favorite. Giving every color the opportunity to steal creatures is simply great.

Here's one that's almost never played that has been fantastic for my cube: Blistering Firecat. Now that morph is back, people should give the card another look. Being able to bluff 7 damage makes a lot of morph look more threatening, and it offers red aggro a topdeck that typically hits as hard as Hellrider or Hero of Oxid Ridge, if played as a 4-drop.

And this is not underplayed at all for how strong it is (i.e., it's not played and not strong), but my playgroup has taken a shine to a card I threw in on a whim, and refuses to let me take it out: Praetor's Grasp. It typically grabs a Sword or a broken artifact, sometimes a land if you're mana screwed, sometimes the key combo piece from that Wildfire/Sneak Attack/Kiki-Jiki deck, or whatever. There is almost always a target that makes it worthwhile, though.

It's funny, I held off for a long, long time. He'd been playing games like Glory to Rome, Settlers of Catan, Galaxy Trucker, Innovation... but the gruesome nature of some of the art in Magic made me wait until last year. (I'm one of those parents who fears that Star Wars is too violent for young kids, so Carnophage seems a bit much...) However, he'd already absorbed more than I had expected by lurking around the table watching us play.

So, he basically knew how to play when he was 7, but I only formally taught him at 8.

Oh, and all of his favorite decks seem to be black/red, full of the darkest, bloodiest art in the game.

How old is your kid now, wtwlf?

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I don't support Jungle Lion aggro, but I still run Experiment One because I think it's efficient enough to hold it's own as a one drop that can get absolutely massive in a midrange deck, or in multicolor Zoo decks.

Played over 20 hours of cube with the new cards this weekend. Most games 10 players, kept an eye on the performance of new cards. Posting here my early review of the cards that saw play, Jace was the only card I didn't get to see in action.

Overall a slightly lower performance from many of the cards than I was expecting, this set is not on the power of khans/dragons of tarkir.

The dragon lords continue to impress me more and more. I thought kologhan's command was insane, and it's even better than I thought. I played it in 3 different decks over the weekend and it was bonkers every single time I casted it. Den protector has been phenomenal. Stratus dancer has been very solid as well, dont see it leaving for a long time. Zurgo, premium 1 red drop, etc.


STRONG PERFORMANCE
Languish
I didn't get to see it too much, but it blew my white weenie deck out hard twice, also watched it clear the boards in other games. Helping my friends build
their decks, there was UB reanimator deck that had many 5+ toughness finishers that languish looked very very good in.

verdict:
I think it might be very slightly better than damnation and will eventually be the second sweeper of choice (worse than toxic deluge) in 360 lists. If it turns out not better than damnation, 450+ cube will likely have 3 sweepers. This being one of the 3.


Gideon-
In the games I played him, I never got to flip him, nor did the threat of flipping him make much of a difference with the board state that was developing against me. However, his indestructible ability proved relevant multiple times. In more explosive draws his planeswalker side is going to be phenomonal, but on average I suspect his power will come from the indestructable.

Verdict: Likely as good as predicted. 360 staple and a leg above most one drops. Mid to early-mid pick in my cube.

Kiran and Pila nalaar-
Got to play her in a good stuff 2 power or less grixis deck, and was impressed. She gummed up the board providing great defense, was able to take out pesky creatures from the opponent if needed, and was able to chip in significant damage each turn.

Verdict: Slightly better than I predicted (and I liked her), 360 staple. Expect to be on par with siege gang commander. Probably slightly better. Mid-late pick in my cube.

Lilliana Heretical Healer
In the right deck she's very easy to flip, and her flip reanimation side can provide a lot of utility, as well as shred control players hands apart.

Verdict: Great card, tier 1 black 3 drop, similar in power to ophiomancer and flesh carver. 360 staple. Mid to mid-late pick.

MEDIOCORE PERFORMANCE
Priest of the Blood Rite
I had him in 2 decks, and 2 players ran him. He was on the cusp of playable in both my decks (pod style deck and jund reanimator). I never got to cast him, but 2 games I died while he was stuck in my hand and I didnt have enough mana to cast him. Plus, one game there was a few situations where had I drew him off the top, he would have been decent, but not great.
My friend had him in a UB reanimator deck with clone effects.. Said it helped him win a game. He cast demon, metamorphed the demon token, blocked the opponents attack with the 2/2, then reanimated it the next turn. 3 5/5 flyers won the game for him easily.

Verdict:
More confident in my predictions of him being marginally better than the current best options we have. 360-450 range, but among the bottom quarter of 5 drops in cube. Late pick in my cube, will sit in sideboards. Some decks will happily have the card wheel to them.

Nissa, Vastwood Seer
I had Nissa in many decks. It was very hard to justify playing her in all of them. Although, it was close. I played her a couple times where maybe I shouldnt have to test her out. I drew her many times as a borderline ranger, and was slightly surprised how decent a borderland ranger felt in my cube. Unfortunately, she didn't flip once... But once she did draw a removal spell when I was at 5 lands. I looked around the room many times at green decks and almost never did they hit 7 lands.

Verdict:
In slower formats Nissa is going to be a very very good card. Her flip side becomes much more likely to happen, and her main side is better than most people realize.
My cube is fast and powerful, probably plays equivalent to most 360's if not slightly more powerful. I don't think she can hack it in my environment, but ill keep testing. If a lot of cultivate+ cards see print I might give her a second test run if I cut her.
450+ unpowered staple.

POOR PERFORMANCE
Relic seeker
Had it in a white weenie deck and a boros agro deck, saw it in a WG collected company deck. Got outclassed a bit too frequently for my liking. The card is not really what you want to be doing in swarm strategies. You really want it in a deck that's capable of getting it through and is able to grind long enough to get value off of the equipment it draws. Hard to explain but it felt slower and more conditional than I expected.

Verdict:
Maybe I was on the wrong side of variance, but the card is a bit more narrow than I was hoping. You need equipment AND ways to get it through, and in that case it's only good, not insane. Will keep testing, but it may fall in the 450-540 range, where I was hoping it was 360-450 quality.

Evolutionary Leap
Decks that wanted this kind of effect, tended to want other more powerful creature based cube engines OVER this card. The decks that wanted to play it needed to have some removal to justify grinding, plus it needed a critical amount of creatures. This left room for 1 or 2 cards that could nothing by itself, consistently the decks had cards that were better at doing that. Survival of the fitest, swords, birthind pod, etc.. It was also more narrow than I was hoping. It lapped constantly in draft, and was consistently cut from decks that thought they wanted to play it.

Verdict:
Much more narrow than I was anticipating, partially because it doesn't stack up to the power of the engines already in cube. It also required a heavy green commitment to make use out of the sac effects. A very solid sideboard card against control at my power level, but in general I expect this card to make splashes in the 540+ range.

Abbot of Keral keep
Had it in a awsome BR sacrifice, tokens style deck with a variety of removal spells. Looked very solid in it, but mostly as a filler card. Had it in a grixis good stuff deck that was tilted in the proactive direction and wasn't impressed. Was hoping it would fringe playable in that style deck but it wasn't. One time I played it in the BR deck later in the game, the cantrip was very nice, but paying attention to the games and imagining "Do I want this card early in the game" answer I kept coming up with was... no. I think I over-estimated a 2/1 prowess for 2.

Verdict:
540+, As a card being cast on curve, it's too weak relative to the competition.

I'm not a big fan of the card because of how opressivly powerful against a few decks , while being very mediocore against a bunch of others.
The average of those situations makes it powerful enough to maindeckable, but it makes for uninteresting games of magic.

Try to avoid low interactive cards whenever possible, since powered cubes have more than enough "sigh nice tripple mox balance -> recall" situations for my palette.

For me, the reason to cut Swords is that I don't like 'protection from color' as a design for a limited format. Protection is randomly either irrelevant or close to unbeatable.

Like most testing we do, we had it replace an existing black card in a pool (works great with Sealed events), so we got to see direct results in the deck. So most cards we proxy up for testing don't go into the packs, but they get seeded directly into the pool/deck so we can get faster results. We do this for at least 3 decks, so we can see how the card performs in different decks and against different opponents.

I believe you do this, but curious why you selectively post your testing intentions?

Because I'm constantly testing new cards and configurations. Typically the only ones that stick around as actual cube changes are the ones that have been receiving positive results in the testing process. My current lists on here and CubeTutor don't reflect all the cards that may get subbed in and out for testing purposes.

I'm just hoping this cycle's evasion gets used more often, its MUCH more amusing and interactive then Protection from colors, or "unblockable". I much prefer these kinds of evasion to real evasion, despite it being worse.

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I love how varied the opinions on these three cards are. Proves there's still some wiggle room as what is best in cube becomes more and more streamlined.