I played a peasant tournament a few years ago where a high tide storm deck won. I got second with some goblins I threw together. It's easy enough to disrupt with red elemental blast... unfortunately I only had 2. I don't consider it some super-duper powerhouse, especially considering the deck that won didn't even run Frantic Search.
Did the tide deck run disrupt? It's pretty good vs. reb [we see a lot of isoburn around these parts]. Also, frantic search becomes better when you also run deep analysis... Though a lot of decks run the snap/cloud of faeries "engine."
I pretty much only play high tide in pez anymore... due to people whining about 4 Sol Ring Affinity and Ritual Tendrils. I like it.
Please show me a common with which this card disadvantage engine is insanely good, especially enough to warrent banning the search.
Um... have you forgotten High Tide?
Cloud of Faeries/Snap are both stupid with high tide as well. High Tide decks were [for a time] a measuring stick in the Peasant format because of this card interaction [leading to much discussion on the mailing list about banning frantic search]. The only uncommon I'm running in my Pez tide deck currently is a lone mystical tutor.
In Golem vs. Sandstalker, I prefer sandstalker, since it triggers the cohort and dodges wrath-effects. Sometimes it sucks to have to recast it every turn you want to swing with it... but the fact that it won't be there to die to death cloud, or barter, or pyroclasm... or what-have-you makes me more secure feeling.
It wasn't meant to be scary. I thought it to be quite funny. The whole movie was a subtle joke.
Certain moments and jokes just aren't caught by most people... It was very much a parody of the genre [both zombie films and romantic comedy], and contained much subtle humor.
I'm sorry that most people can only find things funny if someone's getting kicked in the groin, or a little kid [or old lady] is using profanity.
i didn't see HELLRAISER in any of these lists. the original hellraiser was awesome.
I concur. All the way to hellraiser III they retained some semblance of being a good watch.
Quote from The Runnin" Man »
Does anyone here besides me think that the House of the Dead movie should have bin a "straight to Dvd and VHS" release cause I can't picture that garbage in theaters after watching it on showtime....I heard it's bad in a funny way so i watched it...pretty funny film even though it's not ment to be...
Yes, it was one of the worst excuses for a horror film in the history of ever [even beating out "Killer Condom" and "Hell Comes To Frogtown" for the title]
As far as Jason goes... yes, it was a sack... a burlap sack. The first "jason movie" ironically enough didn't even star jason... but was one of the best.
Another franchise I haven't seen mentioned, but that I love the premise of is "Pumpkinhead" those movies were awesome.
As for running the Ensnaring Bridges in the sideboard, I understand. My metagame is overpopulated with UG Control, BG Control, and Tooth and Nail. Facing down Colossii, Kokushos, Rude Awakenings, and Melokus is extremely difficult for a weenie deck, and Ensnaring Bridge makes winning the first game far easier.
Mine's mainly ponza... because everyone's afraid that tooth is going to dominate. This is the reason I haven't cut aether vial.
Quote from tom »
If I was saying that everyone was an idiot I would get flame warning after flame warning. I havent.
Then I apologize, but when I see things like,
I totally fogort the level of intelligence I am dealing with here.
and...
you say how you can play your entire hand by turn 4 but you dont see how bridge stops a bunch of meloku guys? .... back to rant about intelligence.
that you're insenuating someone isn't intelligent.
Im not going to waste my time in telling you why your list is less than optimal becuase you will just fire back with "well my list is good try the deck first."
Well, it seems that the moment you see a single card which you deem as "unworthy" you automatically assume the whole list is crap. That's the problem I have. If you were to have an actual critique instead of pointing out one card and saying "that list is crap" I would actually listen to it, and take your thoughts into consideration.
So far, my deck has two slots that you deem worthless [vial and artillery]. I don't run ensnaring bridge main, because I'm not playing burning bridges, I am playing a sligh-based list.
I don't run Chrome mox, because at best, chrome mox gives me a turn 1 slith for 1 damage, then a turn 2 slith + something for 2 damage [netting me 3 total] and 3 creatures. While I usually start with turn 1 cohort, turn 2 slith for 3 damage with 2 2/2's in play. I would just rather not run into the late game dead moxes.
Now, with the drooling ogre [which I still hate], I can see a use for dead moxes... but then why not pack a couple shrapnel blasts?
Now, bb18 actually makes an argument vs. artillery with the life loss. Though I find it has synergy with pulse [two activations of artillery clear away two blockers generally, and let you recur pulse once]... much like I see how sandstalker has synergy with cohort. Though on the other hand, all you will say about it is that "I won't even get into it" or equivalent.
The arguments you both have made vs. vial are at times valid, and I do look for them when testing. Though you tend to not even consider when some of your own choices may be invalid.
Like the decision to include ensnaring bridge... you say aether vial is invalid vs. blue because they'll counter it, then you say ensnaring bridge will keep you from dying to meloku. I don't see how one is more safe to play than the other? I also don't like maindeck bridge vs. anything with green. B/G is going to run viridian shamans or naturalize... playing bridge main lets them know to keep the hate in, or to sideboard it in [depending on how they have it to begin]. I prefer to keep it in the board, so it's a surprise after they board out the hate.
I dont mean to berate your intelligence (is berate even a word, Im quite familliar with belittle but never berate, I learn something new everyday) but when you post a list running SHUKO, you arent really securing my vote for best magic player around.
Yes, berate is a word[meaning to scold and criticize heavily], and my list isn't the one running shuko.
Quote from ButteBlues18 »
Otherewise, Extended RDW would never run Chrome Mox
Since when did Extended RDW run chrome mox? Out of all the RDW decks In the top 8 of an [sanctioned] extended tournament, I see a total of... 3 decks running chrome mox.
They also run ensnaring bridge in the sideboard where [I believe] it belongs.
Inferiority Complex? Nope. Considering I was nice about it...
Yes, you've been rather cordial... I was refering to IbeatTomGuevin's inability to make an argument without first stating that everyone on the opposing side is an idiot.
well i have to work and dont really have the time I would like to spend critiquing these less that optimal lists.
Because as we all know, you're the all-knowing expert on red decks.
Quote from ButteBlues18 »
Aether Vial
Hey, it works. Play vs. alot of mono blue and ponza, then you'll see it's not that bad of a choice really.
The only other issue I have with the last list is that it... runs NO Moxes. Really, the only reason to play Slith is the possibility of getting him turn one before there are any blockers to kill it. You have assured yourself that he will be worthless when on the play as every Sakura-Tribe Elder in the world is just gonna' love your Slith.
I prefer to use my spells than to pitch them for an extra land. The slith works just fine on turn 2 [which is when it comes down half of the time, even with moxes].
Now, on a last note... do me a favor. Play the deck, then critique it. Don't just read the list and say "It's crap." I don't look at your lists containing what I consider to be dumb choices in the predicted metagame [like drooling ogre], and cards that are pretty dead after the first turn [like chrome mox] and say "Oh look, you're obviously of sub-par intelligence... you're running [insert card]"
Any of these decks that look like crap on paper could turn out to be real winners... After all, what'd sligh always look like on paper?
Any way... think I'm going to continue to work on my deck in private. I don't need people berating my intelligence over choice of a card, just because they feel they have a need to be superior.
I was screwing around looking at all my cards and I noticed something...
Kokusho + Blazing Shoal + Myojin of Red Whatever = 15 damage.
Then if he dies... that's 20 Damage.
So I got to thinking... how can I get kokusho in play before turn 6 and kill him the same turn?
Answer: Through the breach...
So, here's the skeleton I've been working on.
// The Win
4 Kokusho
4 Through The Breach
4 Myojin
4 Blazing Shoal
// Tutors
4 Eerie Procession [gets Shoal or Breach]
4 Time of Need [gets Kokopuff or Myojin]
2 Spoils of The Vault [great way to kill yourself, and can find all the above]
// Acceleration
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song
4 Desperate Ritual
// 4 Color Manabase [This really needs work]
4 Forbidden Orchard [Kokopuff flies, these spirits don't]
4 City Of Brass [duh]
4 Tendo Ice Bridge [even if it is one-shot, that's all you should need]
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
4 Mountain
Sometimes, it craps all over itself... but when it wins, boy does it ever!
There's no disruption, mainly just because I couldn't manage to fit it in. So, have fun, toy around with it... tell me it sucks [about 80% of the time, it does]... whatever.
good god, I wish for once I could post and not have everyone and there mother attempt to pick apart my arguments.
Welcome to the internet.
against MBC you are saying that guerilla tactics is better? heres a scenario to take into effect; persecute naming red, lose your hand and do 4 dmg or just lose 1 card.
By turn 4, there generally isn't much of a hand to lose. Their creatures are just as efficient to drop as ours, so either we're dropping more creatures, or using our burn. Now, this doesn't mean that guerrilla tactics is good. I messed with it, and ended up not liking it.
maybe no one said that hanabi blast was good word for word, it is as bad as it obviously is then why even CONSIDER running it? I totally fogort the level of intelligence I am dealing with here. With that said I guess my post should have read, the card is just bad and it isn't really a good idea to run bad cards in a competitive deck.
Ok, I'll pretend for a second you weren't trying to be a condescending know-it-all and say once again that hanabi blast is awful. I've been saying all along that the only reusable burn in the format at all is:
Hammer of Bogardan [yeah, let's use a burn spell which costs us 5 to recur in a deck with a mana curve topping at 4]
Hanabi Blast [Chaotic Card Disadvantage Incarnate]
Pulse of The Forge ["If I mana burn myself for 3 turns in a row, I can use it twice!"]
Spikeshot Goblin [ok]
Vulshok Sorcerer [because a 1/1 for 3 is tech]
Orcish Artillery [Not the greatest thing since sliced bread but not awful either]
and that out of these choices, you seem to think that orcish artillery is the pile of refuse.
I refuse to even discuss the use of orcish artillery, let me see an updated list from you, this way i will be more able to tell you what is wrong with it. see its one of those cards that on paper, it seems solid enough, like you say who can argue with reusable burn that is semi tough to deal with due to its 3 toughness. Im not saying its a bad card period, I am however saying that if you are running 3x to 4x of these guys in your deck than you arent running as many good cards as you could.
Who said run 4? I run a grand whopping total of 2. The only decklist I've posted runs... a grand total of two. That is just enough to hit one when the burn spells start to run thin.
Also, have a little faith that people not only read the decklist and go "Yeah, it'd be really cool to have [this]..." but also do a little thing called play-testing.
the mirror really comes down to tempo. bridge can swing tempo into your favor if your opponent gets out of the gates faster than you. obv you arent going to blindly swing into a guy that can kill yours, I dont ever recall saying that you should. in the mirror, I will be able to kill most of their guys with glacial ray, magma jet, and v-hammer the bridge really come into effect after I have board position.
Is it just me, or does that sound like a contradiction? It's for if they're faster than you [have more tempo/better board position], and then you say it's for when you have board control?
I can see bridge being useful against certain kinds of deck, which is why I see it as more of a sideboard card than a maindeck one. I'd rather have a burn spell, or another creature in it's place. Though, I think I'm going for a more creature-based pro-active style list.
Quote from ButteBlues18 »
or against UG, hordes of 1/1 Illusions
For some reason, I don't see ensnaring bridge stopping that very often.
Since people seem to wonder what decklists are looking like [especially those criticizing using orcish artillery], here's mine:
The curve isn't perfect [I know this], but I'm still moving things around a lot. Like dropping arc-slogger for pulse of the forge, and foregoing 4/5-drops entirely.
As for my opinion on continuous burn, if it comes down to it, I would consider Vulshok Sorcerer. I mean, yes it's a little on the average side, but it is a constant plinker with a decent cost. It doesn't have any troubling disadvantages, as the Artillery and the Blast does. Either run her, or I would imply go with the scepter.
If I was going to run the sorcerer, I'd run spikeshot goblin instead. just for the extra point of toughness.
Also, for the same price, we have orcish artillery, which does 2 damage. Though in the mirror the drawback could hurt. I'm starting to think there may be some synergy between the artillery and pulse of the forge though...
As far as lightning coils, I'm not sold on any artifacts right now. I think they'll be enough people paranoid of an influx that there's still going to be a bit of hate.
Hanabi blast is just bad, I dont even draft the card.
No one said it was good. There's just a very limited amount of reusable burn in the format. There's Pulse [which I don't like for it's lack of versatility], Hanabi Blast [which is just awful], and Hammer of Bogardan [which will rarely ever get brought back].
Pulse is good, especially in the mirror. With ensnaring bridge it becomes very playable.
If you want to sit behind ensnaring bridge, and never attack... why play creatures? Bridge stops your opponent from attacking, sure. It doesn't stop them from blocking. If they have a creature you can't burn away, then why attack into it? I'd rather have a reusable burn spell that I can clear away their blockers with, than a burn spell that I have to burn myself to reuse that can't clear the way for my creatures.
In the mirror where you claim that all this is great, ensnaring bridge is a dead card. Either neither of you can attack, or both of you can. You drop bridge, they keep attacking until you have too few cards, then blow it up with a hearth kami.
Pulse isn't a bad card... but in my decklist, the three slot is already congested, and I'd prefer to spend it on something which can deal with my opponent's creatures, thereby helping with the goal of the deck. I find recurring it to be a chore, as how you will almost always be at a higher life total than your opponent, and burning yourself ruins the whole purpose of having a decent curve.
for the love of god dont play orcish artillery.
You still haven't made a solid argument against it. Merely saying it's old doesn't work. It's a 1/3 for 3cc that can turn sideways for 2 damage. It takes on average two burn spells to kill it, it can attack, and in a pinch it can be used to kill a blocker when you have no burn.
I planned on putting guerrilla tactics in the sideboard [actually had them in place of magma jet in my list for a while] just because it can be crippling... Only problem is... most discard is targetted, or not real discard. Chittering rats doesn't trigger it... nor will distress. Maybe shortfang or persecute/death cloud?
As far as pulse, I find it an almost dead card most of the time... I'll draw it when there's something beating down on me that I need to kill. I dunno... I'm gonna keep messing with stuff until I'm totally happy.
I think it's too early to use it. There's too many people running aether vial, isochron scepter, and chrome mox alone.
Mirrodin block contained lots of seemingly powerful artifacts and I believe they'll find their way into quite a few decks. Just those three alone make me wonder if it's a smart choice for the deck. I'll make a final decision once decks start to stabilize, until then, I'm gonna try to find a suitable reusable damage source for the deck. Orcish artillery are working out ok... but there has to be something better.
Anyone have any ideas for a reusable damage source beyond pulse? I don't like devoting any slots to a non-versatile spell. Hanabi Blast seems to be the next choice... but, I'm thinking it may turn out to be a disappointment.
Did the tide deck run disrupt? It's pretty good vs. reb [we see a lot of isoburn around these parts]. Also, frantic search becomes better when you also run deep analysis... Though a lot of decks run the snap/cloud of faeries "engine."
I pretty much only play high tide in pez anymore... due to people whining about 4 Sol Ring Affinity and Ritual Tendrils.
Um... have you forgotten High Tide?
Cloud of Faeries/Snap are both stupid with high tide as well. High Tide decks were [for a time] a measuring stick in the Peasant format because of this card interaction [leading to much discussion on the mailing list about banning frantic search]. The only uncommon I'm running in my Pez tide deck currently is a lone mystical tutor.
Certain moments and jokes just aren't caught by most people... It was very much a parody of the genre [both zombie films and romantic comedy], and contained much subtle humor.
I'm sorry that most people can only find things funny if someone's getting kicked in the groin, or a little kid [or old lady] is using profanity.
I concur. All the way to hellraiser III they retained some semblance of being a good watch.
Yes, it was one of the worst excuses for a horror film in the history of ever [even beating out "Killer Condom" and "Hell Comes To Frogtown" for the title]
As far as Jason goes... yes, it was a sack... a burlap sack. The first "jason movie" ironically enough didn't even star jason... but was one of the best.
Another franchise I haven't seen mentioned, but that I love the premise of is "Pumpkinhead" those movies were awesome.
Mine's mainly ponza... because everyone's afraid that tooth is going to dominate. This is the reason I haven't cut aether vial.
Then I apologize, but when I see things like,
and...
that you're insenuating someone isn't intelligent.
Well, it seems that the moment you see a single card which you deem as "unworthy" you automatically assume the whole list is crap. That's the problem I have. If you were to have an actual critique instead of pointing out one card and saying "that list is crap" I would actually listen to it, and take your thoughts into consideration.
So far, my deck has two slots that you deem worthless [vial and artillery]. I don't run ensnaring bridge main, because I'm not playing burning bridges, I am playing a sligh-based list.
I don't run Chrome mox, because at best, chrome mox gives me a turn 1 slith for 1 damage, then a turn 2 slith + something for 2 damage [netting me 3 total] and 3 creatures. While I usually start with turn 1 cohort, turn 2 slith for 3 damage with 2 2/2's in play. I would just rather not run into the late game dead moxes.
Now, with the drooling ogre [which I still hate], I can see a use for dead moxes... but then why not pack a couple shrapnel blasts?
Now, bb18 actually makes an argument vs. artillery with the life loss. Though I find it has synergy with pulse [two activations of artillery clear away two blockers generally, and let you recur pulse once]... much like I see how sandstalker has synergy with cohort. Though on the other hand, all you will say about it is that "I won't even get into it" or equivalent.
The arguments you both have made vs. vial are at times valid, and I do look for them when testing. Though you tend to not even consider when some of your own choices may be invalid.
Like the decision to include ensnaring bridge... you say aether vial is invalid vs. blue because they'll counter it, then you say ensnaring bridge will keep you from dying to meloku. I don't see how one is more safe to play than the other? I also don't like maindeck bridge vs. anything with green. B/G is going to run viridian shamans or naturalize... playing bridge main lets them know to keep the hate in, or to sideboard it in [depending on how they have it to begin]. I prefer to keep it in the board, so it's a surprise after they board out the hate.
Yes, berate is a word[meaning to scold and criticize heavily], and my list isn't the one running shuko.
Since when did Extended RDW run chrome mox? Out of all the RDW decks In the top 8 of an [sanctioned] extended tournament, I see a total of... 3 decks running chrome mox.
They also run ensnaring bridge in the sideboard where [I believe] it belongs.
Yes, you've been rather cordial... I was refering to IbeatTomGuevin's inability to make an argument without first stating that everyone on the opposing side is an idiot.
Because as we all know, you're the all-knowing expert on red decks.
Hey, it works. Play vs. alot of mono blue and ponza, then you'll see it's not that bad of a choice really.
I prefer to use my spells than to pitch them for an extra land. The slith works just fine on turn 2 [which is when it comes down half of the time, even with moxes].
Now, on a last note... do me a favor. Play the deck, then critique it. Don't just read the list and say "It's crap." I don't look at your lists containing what I consider to be dumb choices in the predicted metagame [like drooling ogre], and cards that are pretty dead after the first turn [like chrome mox] and say "Oh look, you're obviously of sub-par intelligence... you're running [insert card]"
Any of these decks that look like crap on paper could turn out to be real winners... After all, what'd sligh always look like on paper?
Any way... think I'm going to continue to work on my deck in private. I don't need people berating my intelligence over choice of a card, just because they feel they have a need to be superior.
Kokusho + Blazing Shoal + Myojin of Red Whatever = 15 damage.
Then if he dies... that's 20 Damage.
So I got to thinking... how can I get kokusho in play before turn 6 and kill him the same turn?
Answer: Through the breach...
So, here's the skeleton I've been working on.
// The Win
4 Kokusho
4 Through The Breach
4 Myojin
4 Blazing Shoal
// Tutors
4 Eerie Procession [gets Shoal or Breach]
4 Time of Need [gets Kokopuff or Myojin]
2 Spoils of The Vault [great way to kill yourself, and can find all the above]
// Acceleration
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song
4 Desperate Ritual
// 4 Color Manabase [This really needs work]
4 Forbidden Orchard [Kokopuff flies, these spirits don't]
4 City Of Brass [duh]
4 Tendo Ice Bridge [even if it is one-shot, that's all you should need]
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
4 Mountain
Sometimes, it craps all over itself... but when it wins, boy does it ever!
There's no disruption, mainly just because I couldn't manage to fit it in. So, have fun, toy around with it... tell me it sucks [about 80% of the time, it does]... whatever.
Welcome to the internet.
By turn 4, there generally isn't much of a hand to lose. Their creatures are just as efficient to drop as ours, so either we're dropping more creatures, or using our burn. Now, this doesn't mean that guerrilla tactics is good. I messed with it, and ended up not liking it.
Ok, I'll pretend for a second you weren't trying to be a condescending know-it-all and say once again that hanabi blast is awful. I've been saying all along that the only reusable burn in the format at all is:
Hammer of Bogardan [yeah, let's use a burn spell which costs us 5 to recur in a deck with a mana curve topping at 4]
Hanabi Blast [Chaotic Card Disadvantage Incarnate]
Pulse of The Forge ["If I mana burn myself for 3 turns in a row, I can use it twice!"]
Spikeshot Goblin [ok]
Vulshok Sorcerer [because a 1/1 for 3 is tech]
Orcish Artillery [Not the greatest thing since sliced bread but not awful either]
and that out of these choices, you seem to think that orcish artillery is the pile of refuse.
Who said run 4? I run a grand whopping total of 2. The only decklist I've posted runs... a grand total of two. That is just enough to hit one when the burn spells start to run thin.
Also, have a little faith that people not only read the decklist and go "Yeah, it'd be really cool to have [this]..." but also do a little thing called play-testing.
Is it just me, or does that sound like a contradiction? It's for if they're faster than you [have more tempo/better board position], and then you say it's for when you have board control?
I can see bridge being useful against certain kinds of deck, which is why I see it as more of a sideboard card than a maindeck one. I'd rather have a burn spell, or another creature in it's place. Though, I think I'm going for a more creature-based pro-active style list.
For some reason, I don't see ensnaring bridge stopping that very often.
Since people seem to wonder what decklists are looking like [especially those criticizing using orcish artillery], here's mine:
19 Mountain
Creatures
4 Slith Firewalker
2 Orcish Artillery
2 Viashino Sandstalker
4 Hearth Kami
3 Zo-Zu the Punisher
4 Frostling
4 Goblin Cohort
4 Shock
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 AEther Vial
2 Pulse of the Forge
4 Magma Jet
15 TODO
The curve isn't perfect [I know this], but I'm still moving things around a lot. Like dropping arc-slogger for pulse of the forge, and foregoing 4/5-drops entirely.
If I was going to run the sorcerer, I'd run spikeshot goblin instead. just for the extra point of toughness.
Also, for the same price, we have orcish artillery, which does 2 damage. Though in the mirror the drawback could hurt. I'm starting to think there may be some synergy between the artillery and pulse of the forge though...
As far as lightning coils, I'm not sold on any artifacts right now. I think they'll be enough people paranoid of an influx that there's still going to be a bit of hate.
No one said it was good. There's just a very limited amount of reusable burn in the format. There's Pulse [which I don't like for it's lack of versatility], Hanabi Blast [which is just awful], and Hammer of Bogardan [which will rarely ever get brought back].
If you want to sit behind ensnaring bridge, and never attack... why play creatures? Bridge stops your opponent from attacking, sure. It doesn't stop them from blocking. If they have a creature you can't burn away, then why attack into it? I'd rather have a reusable burn spell that I can clear away their blockers with, than a burn spell that I have to burn myself to reuse that can't clear the way for my creatures.
In the mirror where you claim that all this is great, ensnaring bridge is a dead card. Either neither of you can attack, or both of you can. You drop bridge, they keep attacking until you have too few cards, then blow it up with a hearth kami.
Pulse isn't a bad card... but in my decklist, the three slot is already congested, and I'd prefer to spend it on something which can deal with my opponent's creatures, thereby helping with the goal of the deck. I find recurring it to be a chore, as how you will almost always be at a higher life total than your opponent, and burning yourself ruins the whole purpose of having a decent curve.
You still haven't made a solid argument against it. Merely saying it's old doesn't work. It's a 1/3 for 3cc that can turn sideways for 2 damage. It takes on average two burn spells to kill it, it can attack, and in a pinch it can be used to kill a blocker when you have no burn.
As far as pulse, I find it an almost dead card most of the time... I'll draw it when there's something beating down on me that I need to kill. I dunno... I'm gonna keep messing with stuff until I'm totally happy.
Mirrodin block contained lots of seemingly powerful artifacts and I believe they'll find their way into quite a few decks. Just those three alone make me wonder if it's a smart choice for the deck. I'll make a final decision once decks start to stabilize, until then, I'm gonna try to find a suitable reusable damage source for the deck. Orcish artillery are working out ok... but there has to be something better.
Anyone have any ideas for a reusable damage source beyond pulse? I don't like devoting any slots to a non-versatile spell. Hanabi Blast seems to be the next choice... but, I'm thinking it may turn out to be a disappointment.