MTG Salvation

Just curious to see what you guys thought the value on a foil miscut Phyrexian Revoker is. I know the normal foils are close to $15, so I figured I'd see if this would earn any premium. Thanks.

Josh Utter-Leyton played GW Tempered Steel at GP Orlando a few weeks ago. This isn't a completely new idea. It gives you something to do in the games where you get mana flooded.

Quote from Annorax

That's not a card at the bottom of it, it's the sheet border.

How can you tell that?

Any idea of the value of this foil miscut Phyrexian Revoker? Obviously, it's not a hugely played card, but I thought it was cool that you could see a slight piece of the next card at the bottom even if you couldn't tell what the card was. I traded for it because I thought it really different, so I'm just curious about what others would put the value at. Thanks.

Quote from m00se

Never? Onslaught is only 8 years old. When Zendikar becomes 8 years old will the fetches still be $10 each?

No, they won't be $10 each, but I would imagine that Onslaught fetches will still be worth more than Zendikar fetches. I didn't mean that the Zen fetches couldn't get to the $20-30 price that Onslaught ones are now.

How many Orchards are you guys running? I know the worlds list ran 2, but is that really enough to be able to reliably cast Wispmare? I was considering running another shockland like Temple Garden to help accommodate being able to get the white mana.

Quote from _

Has 0 relevance to Modern. Onslaught is not legal in modern.

I think he is implying that you can expect the Zendikar fetches to become much more valuable. They will, of course, never get to the value of the Onslaught fetches though because they were printed more recently.

If you want to play something like that it's going to fall more into a Big Red/Metal Red mold than RDW. I used to play a deck like this before M12. If I take the deck I had before and make changes due to rotation/new releases, I think the deck would look something like this:



The deck is obviously a bit rough, but I literally just tried to come up with something on the fly. The big problem is that I think Chandra's Phoenix belongs in more of an aggro beat down strategy, but Kuldotha Phoenix wants more of a controlling deck. That's the way I see it at least. Anyways, just wanted to add in my thoughts.

Quote from wilmheath

CapeFearGames will be doing 10% off everything for cyber monday and this includes boxes, sleeves, dice, singles, board games etc. This will make boxes of ISD $80 bucks. The code will be "cybermonday" and I will enable it sunday night.

MTGOTraders will have the cyber monday deal posted on the front of the site Sunday night.

I'm not seeing the cyber monday deal for mtgo traders anywhere

So if in response to my opponent activating Tree of Redemption's ability I cast Twisted Image targeting it, will my opponent just instantly lose since the toughness was at 0 when the creature was last on the battlefield or will it be 13 since that's what it was when the ability was activated?

If you're not using dismember you're insane. I have 2 maindeck and 1 SB. As I said earlier in this thread, the ability to push through damage by taking out walls and baloths is great. It also gives you a MD answer to Deceiver Exarch because you don't want to have to rely on double bolt haha.

Quote from kamikaze360

@Vols:

I see what you mean about Phoenix, costing too high. Its just that in my experience it always seems like I'm casting Hauler as a 3 unless I'm stuck on 2 lands. I think you've won me over on 2-of Dismember in the main and possibly 2 Arc Trail, tho I can see Burst fitting in there as well.

I like your deck because it is like a hybrid of the 20 land super fasties and the slower Koth builds. I would probably only sb 2-3 Koth due to only having access to 22 land post board. And I would like to test more with Manabarbs as that seems to be an awesome card against both control and kut.

I guess I was thinking Manic Vandal because it is generally awesome in a format with tons of good artifacts but if there isn't anything specific that we're afraid of then why bother? I do think though that RDW is going to be a huge deck and thus Refugee being awesome in the board, as opposed to say the 2 extra arc trails you have there (as we already dominate all aggro besides the mirror).

I think I agree that Koth needs to be cut down to 2-3 in the SB. I played Sligh last year before rotation with all the unearth creatures, and then Manabarbs was an awesome SB card. Maybe we just don't need it anymore. I'm definitely going to have to test it in the current meta and see if it's necessary.

The Arc Trails are definitely what I would cut to fit in Vulshok Refugee though. If I'm playing at any major tournament, I definitely would change it to 3 Koth and 3 Refugee instead of the 4 Koth and 2 Arc Trail. Until my local store shows me I need it though, I won't be worrying about SBing them haha.

Quote from kamikaze360

im sure you side in the mountain whenever you side in manabarbs or koth, but is 22 enough to consistently hit 4 land??

Otherwise...I love the build and have a few thoughts...

I like your creature suite. the 12 1-drops are the way to go imo in this metagame. But is Ember Hauler the best choice? What about Stormblood Berserker or Chandra's Phoenix?

Also, I like your 15 burn spells and assume that 2 Dismember and 2 Arc Trail are in the main as a metacall? That spot is confusing me, I've tried those 2 spells, burst lightning, flame slash... but just not sure on which one to settle on.

also, what are your thoughts on the board? i love manabarbs, but really want to fit in Vulshok Refugee and Manic Vandals in there somehow.

Yes, the mountain is for when siding in those expensive cards. Pre-M12 I have been playing just 21 land like this with 2x Koth maindecked (2 SB). I have had very few times where I was stuck on 2-3 land with a Koth in hand. I have tried playing the 24 land build and just found myself becoming mana flooded too often.

I don't necessarily know that Ember Hauler is correct. I may have to give Stormblood Berseker a try in the spot since the ability to push through 3 damage a turn seems nice. I don't think I like Chandra's Phoenix because of the fact that it costs 3. I could see the Phoenix being a SB card against control for a recurring threat, but I don't think it needs to be maindecked.

As for the Dismembers and Arc Trails, yes the Arc Trails are more of a meta call. I just felt they were a bit more useful than having 2 Burst Lightning or something like that. The Dismembers are so useful though. I wouldn't even call them a meta decision. I think Dismember is just such a good spell and that RDW decks will not be disappointed maindecking 1-2 of them. They are obviously not great when facing other aggro decks, but dismembering a wall for my Scamp or Guide to get through for extra damage is always great. Plus, they are useful for helping take down a titan or having some maindeck answers to Splinter Twin.

I do wonder about my board whether having the 4 Koth and 3 Manabarbs is really correct. I haven't been able to test this much at all, so the Manabarbs could just be unnecessary considering they are both for the control matchups. I just hate seeing the turn 0 Leyline, and both of these cards allow enough damage to be pushed through without being able to throw burn at the face.

Vulshok Refugees are definitely something that could be needed depending on how the meta shifts. As of now (pre M12), I was one of just two or three people running RDW out of the 50 or so at my store every week. With Grim Lavamancer being released, more people may shift to red which would cause me to have to find a place for Refugee.

As for Manic Vandal, I just don't see what artifacts there are to destroy anymore. No one is playing the problematic equipment anymore with the Stoneforge banning. The only decks I've seen running artifacts now are Tempered Steel where Manic Vandal would be too slow anyways and Kuldotha Forgemaster/Tezzeret where we are probably fast enough anyways and can use Dismember to take out the Forgemaster. Other than the occasional Tumble Magnet or Spellskite, I don't think there are really any other artifacts being played. If I'm missing something then please let me know, but I just don't see what in standard would cause a need for artifact destruction right now.

Sorry this post ended up so long. Just had a lot of thoughts. Please give feedback if anyone disagrees with my comments. I don't claim to be an expert or anything, but I have been playing RDW for a good while now.

Yeah I don't think Burst Lightning is necessary right now. There just isn't room for it. The card was much better when you needed an extra way to take out a turn 2 Stoneforge Mystic.

I think this is the build I'm going to be trying out. I hate putting the Koths in the SB, but I feel as if it's necessary.



Please let me know what you guys think.