People talking about playing sleep remind me of people playing with bad cards to try to make goyf good. It's good on it's own, you don't need to play with bad cards to run it.
Like I said, you guys are overestimating this card. One can tell by the fact that you just put it along side goyf. It falls far below goyf.
On its own, it is a 4/5 flyer that probably kills 1 or 2 creatures and it costs 6. Also, if your opponent knows your strategy he will be watching for when you gain access to 6 mana and he will have answers of his own.
If you are playing control, you have better board clearing options for 6 and you likely have better creatures to jam into the deck.
I am not saying this angel sucks because that wouldn't be true. But it is a 6 drop that will be played late enough that it can countered, discarded, or memoricided relatively easily.
Now it won't always be gotten stopped in those ways but it is also a card that requires preparation to be used meaning that your opponents get a 1 turn warning if you use sleep or gideon to prep the field for sunblast angel. Don't forget that if gideon dies the before they attack on the next turn, then they don't have to attack.
Furthermore, this card forces you to hold off on using it until you have a way to tap down all your opponents creatures and will at times force you to accept lesser results as the opponent may not always be attacking with all their creatures. And being a 4/5 flyer for 6 is not terribly great.
Thus I don't know see this card as a staple of constructed yet.
I think some are missing the point of this. yes he is easily destroyed or removed. but he is even more easily protected.
1. In extended he can be protected from targeted removal with vines of vastwood, emerge unscathed, redeem the lost, or tortoise formation. destruction spells that do not prevent regeneration are also easily countered with the 2 mana spells regeneration or reknit. Also this kind of deck lends well to eldrazi monument. Which leads the opponent down to cards like condemn and path to exile which ultimately benefit you.
2. You control the spell copies even if your opponent casts the spell. If they consume spirit your golem, you gain the life(corrupt may do 0 damage if you have no swamps). Also you can order the stack. thus if you have forced your opponent to use something like path to exile or condemn then you can order it so the least important golems go first( the tokens) and once you have gotten as much health or free land pull as you want, you can give your remaining golems shroud or protection.
3. Also multiple precursor golems means multiple copies of each spell. so the more of him you have the more it becomes explosive it becomes for you. As where the opponent doesn't gain anything. They still max out at clearing your field except in the case of a specific 2 cards (chandra's outrage and traitor's roar) which are issues that you should watch out for and hold onto shroud to deal with.
4. Also if you run path to exile yourself or nature's claim yourself and you hold no other means of saving your field when an opponent attempts to clear it. You can atleast gain a ton of life or search out several land.
5. This kind of deck is not just a johnny combo deck as the combo's lead to a wide array of responses that help limit the ways an opponent can deal with you. Thus a precursor golem deck has a strong amount of control.
6. sadly since it will be in legacy by the time this card is out. Stonewood invocation would rock with this golem. Uncounterable, unrespondable, pump that gives troll shroud and it does it for all your golems. pretty sexy.
What I tend to see as I read these posts is a ton of judging coming from both sides of the argument.
IE- Netdeckers are pathetic as they cannot come up with anything themselves. They need someone to win a tournament and establish a deck in order to commit to it.
Or the other direction. Homebrew players are just scrubs or noobs who cannot make good decks and so make accusations after losing to good decks.
The fact is both of the accusations is situationally true. There are homebrew guys who get angry because they lose to tournament decks and there are netdeckers who heavily peruse online discussion as a crutch because they want to win more and they cannot do it on their own.
My first experience with a netdecker was awhile back during Odyssey and Torment where a younger player who had played poorly made decks for awhile one day came in with strong tier 1 deck. It didn't crush my homemade deck but was definitely more efficient and faster so I was winning a third of the time. This whole argument comes up from the annoyance of those situations.
Anyway, I care much less now. Personally I never netdeck because I want my decks to be as completely my own creation as possible. That does not mean I expect to win tournaments because I also avoid top tier cards. I like to pull as much as possible out of lower tier cards as possible. Trying to break ooze garden is much more enjoyable than trying to break baneslayer. That does not mean I expect someone playing a tournament level white deck to avoid baneslayer or other well known tricks.
The real problem is the people who want to have their cake and eat it too. Homebrew is riskier. Homebrewers should understand that they are lowering their chances of winning by refusing what is basically free playtesting knowledge. You aren't going to win as often with the same ammount of effort. So suck it up and don't be a sore loser.
Netdeckers are taking a shortcut. You aren't putting the same level of effort in to obtain your finished product. In many cases, you are taking a 90-95% finished concept and just rearranging the pillows on the couch. You are going to get less credit for the deck, so you are just going to have to be ok with that.
Fact is none of these things accurately determine how good of a player you are. Netdeckers could be good players or could be ok players with good decks. Homebrewers could be handicapping themselves or they could just be bad.
Moral of the story. Value judgments are pointless. Don't troll. We are all playing a child's card game which automatically makes us less cool.
Like I said, you guys are overestimating this card. One can tell by the fact that you just put it along side goyf. It falls far below goyf.
On its own, it is a 4/5 flyer that probably kills 1 or 2 creatures and it costs 6. Also, if your opponent knows your strategy he will be watching for when you gain access to 6 mana and he will have answers of his own.
If you are playing control, you have better board clearing options for 6 and you likely have better creatures to jam into the deck.
Now it won't always be gotten stopped in those ways but it is also a card that requires preparation to be used meaning that your opponents get a 1 turn warning if you use sleep or gideon to prep the field for sunblast angel. Don't forget that if gideon dies the before they attack on the next turn, then they don't have to attack.
Furthermore, this card forces you to hold off on using it until you have a way to tap down all your opponents creatures and will at times force you to accept lesser results as the opponent may not always be attacking with all their creatures. And being a 4/5 flyer for 6 is not terribly great.
Thus I don't know see this card as a staple of constructed yet.
1. In extended he can be protected from targeted removal with vines of vastwood, emerge unscathed, redeem the lost, or tortoise formation. destruction spells that do not prevent regeneration are also easily countered with the 2 mana spells regeneration or reknit. Also this kind of deck lends well to eldrazi monument. Which leads the opponent down to cards like condemn and path to exile which ultimately benefit you.
2. You control the spell copies even if your opponent casts the spell. If they consume spirit your golem, you gain the life(corrupt may do 0 damage if you have no swamps). Also you can order the stack. thus if you have forced your opponent to use something like path to exile or condemn then you can order it so the least important golems go first( the tokens) and once you have gotten as much health or free land pull as you want, you can give your remaining golems shroud or protection.
3. Also multiple precursor golems means multiple copies of each spell. so the more of him you have the more it becomes explosive it becomes for you. As where the opponent doesn't gain anything. They still max out at clearing your field except in the case of a specific 2 cards (chandra's outrage and traitor's roar) which are issues that you should watch out for and hold onto shroud to deal with.
4. Also if you run path to exile yourself or nature's claim yourself and you hold no other means of saving your field when an opponent attempts to clear it. You can atleast gain a ton of life or search out several land.
5. This kind of deck is not just a johnny combo deck as the combo's lead to a wide array of responses that help limit the ways an opponent can deal with you. Thus a precursor golem deck has a strong amount of control.
6. sadly since it will be in legacy by the time this card is out. Stonewood invocation would rock with this golem. Uncounterable, unrespondable, pump that gives troll shroud and it does it for all your golems. pretty sexy.
IE- Netdeckers are pathetic as they cannot come up with anything themselves. They need someone to win a tournament and establish a deck in order to commit to it.
Or the other direction. Homebrew players are just scrubs or noobs who cannot make good decks and so make accusations after losing to good decks.
The fact is both of the accusations is situationally true. There are homebrew guys who get angry because they lose to tournament decks and there are netdeckers who heavily peruse online discussion as a crutch because they want to win more and they cannot do it on their own.
My first experience with a netdecker was awhile back during Odyssey and Torment where a younger player who had played poorly made decks for awhile one day came in with strong tier 1 deck. It didn't crush my homemade deck but was definitely more efficient and faster so I was winning a third of the time. This whole argument comes up from the annoyance of those situations.
Anyway, I care much less now. Personally I never netdeck because I want my decks to be as completely my own creation as possible. That does not mean I expect to win tournaments because I also avoid top tier cards. I like to pull as much as possible out of lower tier cards as possible. Trying to break ooze garden is much more enjoyable than trying to break baneslayer. That does not mean I expect someone playing a tournament level white deck to avoid baneslayer or other well known tricks.
The real problem is the people who want to have their cake and eat it too. Homebrew is riskier. Homebrewers should understand that they are lowering their chances of winning by refusing what is basically free playtesting knowledge. You aren't going to win as often with the same ammount of effort. So suck it up and don't be a sore loser.
Netdeckers are taking a shortcut. You aren't putting the same level of effort in to obtain your finished product. In many cases, you are taking a 90-95% finished concept and just rearranging the pillows on the couch. You are going to get less credit for the deck, so you are just going to have to be ok with that.
Fact is none of these things accurately determine how good of a player you are. Netdeckers could be good players or could be ok players with good decks. Homebrewers could be handicapping themselves or they could just be bad.
Moral of the story. Value judgments are pointless. Don't troll. We are all playing a child's card game which automatically makes us less cool.