So I've been working the last few months on tightening my cube list up to support the sixteen macro-archetypes of Magic, based on Patrick Chapin's analysis in his ebook Next Level Deckbuilding. Of all the archetypes, I've managed to get each to function pretty successfully except for Storm combo. I'm aware that there's a long-standing tradition of labeling Storm as unplayable in basically every limited format (at least in recent years). I'm wondering if anyone has managed to incorporate a Storm archetype in their cube without warping the environment too heavily.
I've been through two levels of thinking so far. The first was creating the archetype as it existed on the MTGO Cube. It was four colors, primarily blue and black, with some red and green. Typically, the route to victory involved landing a Heartbeat of Spring, untapping lands with Turnabout or Rude Awakening, and chaining cantrips and Yawgmoth's Will until a Tendrils kill was possible. The problem I ran into was that the deck required several pieces to function at all. If the Heartbeat of Spring or Yawgmoth's Will or Tendrils was picked up by someone else, the deck did nothing. Furthermore, it required a complex manabase to be consistent, resulting in a drafting experience that almost never worked. In theory, the deck could combo kill on turn five or six successfully, but it never once came together in practice.
Right now, I've shifted away from green entirely, focusing on a red ritual-based mana acceleration plan with Past in Flames for a Empty the Warrens kill. The problem here is that the deck can't actually combo off until turn four or five, at which point many other archetypes can deal with twenty goblins or kill on the next turn regardless. I'm considering moving to Brainfreeze as a primary kill condition and leaving Empty as an alternate against any decks packing Eldrazi.
For reference, I have my cube on Cube Tutor linked in my sig.
I haven't played EDH in a long while, but I did play pretty regularly a few years back. My understanding is that there are two main ways mass land destruction is used. One is legitimate, the other is not.
The wrong way LD is used is to simply prolong a game. If it's progressed to turn 10 or so, and there's some board development but not a lot, and then someone casts Armageddon, people have a right to be annoyed. The LD doesn't accomplish anything for the caster other than reset the field to a virtual turn 0, so that everyone has to rebuild. In this sense, there is no real strategic point to the LD other than "He had a lot of mana and I stopped him from winning" which is a pretty weak argument. People who do this deserve to be shunned.
The proper way for LD is to give a tactical advantage to the user. This still can upset people, but it is at least done with a purpose. For example. Kaalia of the Vast gets accelerated out, suits up Greaves, and goes to town. Casting an Armageddon here is advantageous because it lets a threat attack unimpeded. The LD is part of the win strategy, not just "oh cool big spell" effect. This kind of LD should be discussed by a playgroup so people are ready for it if it comes.
I believe it's a matter of time till the meta starts attacking UWR's manabase to prevent them from consistently getting to 3 mana to cast TNN. Either they will have to adapt by adding some basics, or Deathblade/Bant might get the upper hand.
I would imagine that a meta that attacks mana more aggressive would be more detrimental to a four-color Deathblade deck that plays a limited number of blue lands than the UWR Delver decks that make blue mana with every land outside of Wasteland.
I'm inclined to believe UWR Delver is not only the best Mystic/Nemesis deck, but probably the best deck in the format. It attacks with Delver for early pressure, Mystic for midgame advantage and Nemesis/Bolts for reach and inevitability. A suite of 12 counterspells makes it's combo matchup pretty sturdy and 8 pieces of removal make other creature decks a walk in the park.
I'd also advocate a variant of Stoneblade because it is the only Nemesis deck that can consistently answer other Nemeses with Supreme Verdict, packs a good suite of disruption between counterspells and discard, and has a pretty stable matchup against everything outside of fringe decks like Lands (though Storm is often a coin flip).
I don't have much experience with Bant and Deathblade, but I feel Deathblade's mana is a bit shaky, and Jund is probably a better attrition midrange deck. I like Bant, but no FOW in the main makes me wonder how strong it's matchup with Combo is.
The card sees occasional play in Burn sideboards, but even with that deck, if they've resolved a Jace or Griselbrand, you should have killed them already.
I wouldn't let Sneak and Show scare you away. Sure, it gets free wins every once in a while, but there's plenty to do to keep it in check.
If you're still interested in Delver, Owen's UWR Delver is probably the best deck in the format currently. Twelve main deck counterspells coupled with Delver, Mystic, Nemesis and equipment, it has a fast clock and lots of disruption.
It cantrips immediately, automatically blanks a threat against RUG Delver unless they waste a Bolt on it, works as Edict fodder vs. Liliana and other such effects, and by nature of being an artifact has synergies with Tezzeret and Academy Ruins. It also carries equipment well.
Merfolk and Goblins are still viable decks in the format, but barring any issues with card availability, there are more powerful options. Before May 2010, both of Sneak and Show's fatties didn't exist. Playing Emrakul and Griselbrand in the first three turns is just higher impact than Vial turn one, turn two dude, turn three more dudes.
Elves gained Deathrite Shaman, which gave it interaction with some combo decks that were faster.
The reason Zoo fell off the map is it's poor matchups across the board. It's clock isn't faster than Storm or Show and Tell, and it lacks any disruption to stop these decks from racing them. Zoo also folds to Wasteland, since Nacatl, Kird Ape, and Loam Lion all depend on having multiple basic land types.
Assuming you're up to date and running Cunning Wish, Post board, its is always correct to board out ONE high tide to protect it from extraction/extirpate/slaughter games.
When you're ready to go off, wish for the hidden high tide and profit.
^ This.
Extirpate, by nature, does not have any answers. You have to play around it and not let it become an issue to begin with.
All depends on what deck you're playing. Supreme Verdict, Terminus, and Zealous Persecution all work from UWx control lists. Golgari Charm is a good answer from BG decks, as is Toxic Deluge. Any edict effect is also good, but situational.
@ Jaxx
However I do think there still is the problem of trying to fight everything possibly imaginable at the same time, and that is too much. Is Shardless BUG still that prevelant that Notion Thief can get its value? Isn't our inclusion of TNN who is immune to their Tarmogoyf and Abrupt Decay enough to gain the match up in our favor? Is Blood Moon really that scary or even seen that much in the meta?
I'll be testing against Shardless BUG a bit tomorrow, so I'll have more information on how much TNN changes things. I agree the Notion Thief may be spreading myself too thin, but its utility against combo by shutting off their cantrips, while slow, is pretty good. This guy is definitely in a flex spot and might change.
The concern for Blood Moon is a concession to the expected meta at the GP. Without any byes, I expect to play through a couple Tier 2 decks like Burn and Goblins, as well as decks like Painted Stone, all of which I don't want to lose to. Blue Blast also counters/kills Sneak Attack and Burning Wish, which might be more prevalent.
In an open meta yeah sure, the one of Vendilion Clique, Detention Sphere, Creeping Tar Pit and Baleful Strix will prove their value, but that depends more on being in the right position at the exact right time, and thus is a larger factor of luck. If you read the meta correctly you can anticipate more specifically against certain match ups, making your deck more streamlined, stable and efficient.
I definitely agree that the one-ofs are not always going to show, but I think the value of Clique, Sphere, and Tar Pit is enough to warrant slots. Clique has been good nearly every game I see it in, and Tar Pit works as mana fixing as well as a clock against decks I need a faster clock against. The Sphere is essentially a Vindicate with the ability to counter a Show and Tell. Baleful Strix is questionable but still not a bad card. Would it be better as a TNN?
I'm not saying that is easy, there will always be decks that come out of the blue in a diverse meta as Legacy where you are completely unprepared for. In that regard it depends on your playstyle as well; if you want to know for certain and be confident your deck has all the answers it is a perfect build, but if you want to play 80 of the 100 matches with the same exact approach and strategy to be as constant as possible, you have to accept some cards are out there to disrupt that plan. At that point it is important to realize the deck is not wrong or bad, there simply are match ups that are unfavored.
Anyway what I'm trying to say is that your decklist might have a less focused plan but has more options to answer the meta and if it fits your playstyle it is a good build and I cannot improve on it. If at the tournament you discover that certain plans need redundancy, like a super focused plan RUG Delver has, keep in mind the decklist itself is not to blame, and can still be easily adjusted.
I definitely agree that my list is "unfocused" in that it tries to cast a wide net, but the appeal of Stoneblade for me has always been its fair chance against pretty much the entire field. I know some matches, like 12 Post, are vastly not in our favor, but against the popular Tier 1 decks (RUG, BUG, D&T, Show and Tell, Storm, Miracles, Jund) and the common Tier 2 favorites (Goblins, Merfolk, Burn, Belcher, Dredge) we always have a fighting chance.
I do appreciate the constructive criticism. It's good to hear the plain truth in the face of my personal biases.
In light of this past weekend's tournament results, Soorani's article, and the discussion on this thread for the last couple weeks, this is the list I'm at for DC.
Two Snapcaster Mage for value. Against combo, discard, discard, Snapcaster discard is really backbreaking. He's not the greatest anymore, but still worth it. He's also a good clock against Storm and Show and Tell, which the deck needs.
One Baleful Strix for value also. He doesn't really do anything but provide a roadblock for fair decks while replacing himself. Good value, but not game-winning.
Two True-Name Nemesis. This guy is really good, but he isn't a fast clock. I think he's superior to Geist of Saint Traft in general based on his utility against fair decks, but against combo, he's far worse than Geist. Against Storm or Show and Tell, he's a 3-power dude for three mana. Not the greatest.
One Vendilion Clique. This guy compensates for TNN in the combo matchup. Clique actually does something to disrupt them, has flash so you can hold up Spell Pierce and Clique when the coast is clear, and has virtually the same on-board effect as TNN. This guy has always been stellar and I don't want to battle without one. Karakas interaction is also good.
Three Jace, the Mind Sculptor, because this guy always does work, and he's one of the better finishers against Miracles. Terminus is an out against our dudes, including TNN, so Jace provides us a path that ignores a lot of what Miracles does.
One Batterskull, one Jitte. Standard equipment. Active Jitte still blows out Death and Taxes and can race opposing TNN.
Four Force of Will, two Spell Pierce. Full suite of Force to hedge against random combo decks and mainstream combo decks. Spell Pierce as additional backup.
Four Brainstorm/Swords to Plowshares. Traditional. Don't think this should change.
Three Thoughtseize, two Inquisition of Kozilek. Hand disruption against combo is awesome. Stealing Batterskull from Death and Taxes is great. Pairs up well with Snapcaster.
Two Lingering Souls. Chump blocking and Edict protection against various fair decks.
One Detention Sphere. Swapped out Vindicate because this card makes more sense against Show and Tell. I don't like it against BUG, where Vindicate was a solid out against Liliana, but this is just a call that needs to be made.
Creeping Tar Pit for killing planeswalkers like Lily or Jace and helping our clock against combo.
Karakas for Show and Tell and Clique shenanigans.
Two Wasteland for free wins when combined with discard. Also, see Rishadan Port.
Sideboard
Notion Thief against BUG. Catching combo off guard when they Brainstorm is awesome.
Rest in Peace for RUG, Jund, Dredge, Reanimator, Storm, etc.
Surgical Extraction for Dredge, Reanimator, Combo, Jund, etc.
Meddling Mage for Combo.
Flusterstorm for Combo.
Supreme Verdict, Perish, Zealous Persecution. Perish against most creatures. Supreme Verdict against Merfolk and TNN. Zealous Persecution against D&T and TNN.
Disenchant for value.
Blue Elemental Blast for value.
I'm generally satisfied with the board, and I've conceded some slots for less good decks that are easy for people to play, like Burn and Merfolk. Sulfuric Vortex from RUG and the potential Blood Moons from random decks makes me want Disenchant and Blue Blast even more.
Thoughts? I think this is a pretty stock Esper list that I've tested for close to a year now.
If your going to go that far just run a DnT deck or alter that shell. I have been catching up on the previous posts and I have noticed that no one mentioned how devestating wasteland in to a plan that includes waiting to cast massive board sweepers. All of our board sweepers dont come online until turn 4 and that is if we hit every land drop so to that plan we most consider wasteland and to a lesser degree Port.
This is precisely why I run four basics as a rule, and generally fetch them first against an unknown deck. Even though I need a dual land to cast Verdict (double white), it's usually fine to play out the dual as a 4th land and then sweep. At that point, you aren't as concerned about Wasteland.
I also run 2 Wasteland of my own for Ports, which do get really annoying.
The vast majority of cards that are not win conditions or card drawing spells are spells that react to any threat one's opponent can play, so that you can, ideally, respond to everything. By itself pure control is easy to beat that is why we have adopted some aggro elements, by the use efficient creatures or spells that gain tempo early in the game. We can take an early turn 1 advantage with discard but I find turn 2-3 where I have the most "dead" cards. Yes we have draw in the from of brainstorm and ponder or additional discard or counterspells but it is not having the options to play a more aggro tempo advancing play that I believe hurts us.Stoneforge Mystic is really our only option at this point and depending which equipment you seek the lose of him can be tragic and set us back. However if we look at a few different creatures or plays at this point in the game we may get an idea of how to gain an advantage.
Some alternatives I have thought about Baleful Strix Trades up in value and gets a card Meddling Mage Shuts off a threat and has a decent body
I think if we can determine where our problem lies it might be easier to address.
Response to the bolded: I think most lists are very capable of having reasonably aggressive draws, between SFM, TNN, Geist, Lingering Souls, Snapcaster, Vendilion Clique, and Baleful Strix. To devote more deck space to tempo cards would compromise the control element to the point that you might as well move into a tempo build like RUG or BUG. See every argument for why Deathblade isn't really viable.
Again, if gaining card advantage while having a threat is what you want, I think Bob is worth considering. He functions well as a card advantage engine and can turn the corner relatively fast attacking non-interactive decks.
To address you last comment, I still believe finding the cards that do the most work in different situations is key. Like you said, a control deck wants to answer everything. If our strategy is to have Card A for Deck A, Card B for Deck B, etc., then if we don't draw the proper cards we don't actually do anything. That's why finding cards that function well for Deck A and B is the better place to be. Vendilion Clique is a prime example of this and the reason I never want to cut it from my list; it's a fast, evasive clock, can serve as removal in a pinch, works as hand disruption against your opponent and can even serve as filtering if you Clique yourself. That it pitches to Force also makes it part of a counterspell also.
I like the premise of Baleful Strix as card advantage, removal, and a source of damage. It isn't the most stellar card in the world, so I can't see playing more than two, but it's definitely worth testing. This is also why I think TNN will probably be superior to Geist. You compromise the potential for a fast clock for a huge increase in utility.
The caveat to the above reasoning is that some cards are so powerful that they're a necessity. Swords to Plowshares is an example of this. It does one thing, but it does it so much better than any alternative that it's worth playing.
From all the above decks only the following are consistent in each variant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
2-3 Spell Pierce
3-4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
1-3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
8-9 Fetchlands
So of the 38 non-land cards in a stoneblade list, only 19 are more or less agreed upon (50%) That's the area of space that needs to be explored.
I think you're correct that there is plenty of room to explore. I would add Jitte to the list of requirements too, as the CounterTop list had one in the board. Then, boil it down even further to this:
That seems to be the very core of the deck. The cards that go in around it can be classified as efficient creatures, card advantage, hand disruption, countermagic, removal, alternate finishers, and mana base.
Efficient Creatures
Delver of Secrets
Deathrite Shaman
Snapcaster Mage
Dark Confidant
Baleful Strix
Geist of Saint Traft
True-Name Nemesis
Vendilion Clique
Card Advantage
Ponder
Preordain
Sensei's Divining Top
Hand Disruption
Thoughtseize
Inquisition of Kozilek
Liliana of the Veil
Hymn to Tourach
Countermagic
Force of Will
Daze
Spell Pierce
Counterspell
Flusterstorm
Counterbalance
Alternate Win-Cons
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Lingering Souls
Entreat the Angels
Mana Base
Fetchlands
Dual Lands
Basic Lands
Wasteland
Karakas
Academy Ruins
Creeping Tar Pit
Well, that's a pretty rudimentary list. I'm sure there are a dozen things missing, but that pretty much sums up what I think is worth consideration for the main deck.
I think the key in finding an optimal list (I'm sure there are more than one) is getting cards that fit multiple categories. Clique is an efficient creature as well as hand disruption, Jace is card advantage, pseudo-removal, and an alternate win-con. Finding the cards that do the most work in different categories or are clearly the best at their job (Force of Will) is the key to having a strong list.
Perish is an great card, but there are issues with counter magic, our new friend TNN, and other non green threats, being a sideboard card and there are only so may slots we can run board wipes for. An approach could be to add chrome mox to the deck, it would make board wipes a lot earlier, less susceptible to wasteland. By carrying multiple multi colored cards such as verdict, maybe geist and detention sphere it can be set up to provide excellent mana fixing and give the deck an earlier ability to play around daze.
Playing Chrome Mox seems really awful to me. They're terrible top decks after the first couple turns, and considering we're the control deck looking to go long, I don't want to be drawing them mid/late game. Also, you'd need to play 3-4 to reliably get them in your opener.
I also find Daze rather easy to play around, as most of my regular testing is against RUG/Blue tempo decks and combo decks. Sure, it puts you behind a turn if you wait until turn 3 to play a SFM, but you're also making that Daze a dead card for them. And you're fine with playing a longer game in most cases so slowing down a turn isn't that terrible.
I'm big on pithing needle main deck right now. There's a target in every deck be it DRS, vial, top, ports, wasteland, liliana, lavamancer, wirewood symbiote...
I really do like Pithing Needle as well, especially against D&T. I used to play with one in the board, but currently I don't have room for it. I might test it over a fifth discard spell in the main.
I'm not talking about "managing" the first few turns by going back and forth with lingering souls (too much dread of night, sulfur elemental, engineered plague) discard, and counter magic. Spending 2-4 cards to keep your head above water for the first few turns seems like bad math. It make sense to me to "give up" the first 3 turns almost entirely and wiping the board after sand bagging 2-3 cards and starting with an advantage with some land in play because this deck is mana hungry.
When I mentioned "managing" the first few turns, I was doing so under the assumption that we were in game 1. After board you have sweepers to get the job done and can be less concerned about managing, especially if the opponent dilutes their strategy to interfere with yours.
The nice thing about Lingering Souls is that it is great against counters and discard. Even if it gets Dazed, the two spirits on flashback can trade with Delver, chump a Goyf and effectively gain 8-10 life, or draw removal if the opponent wants to push through damage. Even if they interfere with you playing the Lingering Souls, you're still trading one card for their disruption plus something else.
I'm also unconvinced that Sulfur Elemental, Dread of Night, and Engineered Plague are actually relevant against us even if we do play Lingering Souls, since the worst they do is shut off 2-3 cards playing an otherwise do-nothing spell.
It's true that Esper Stoneblade has fallen from Tier 1 in terms of finishes. That said, looking at recent tournaments here, here, here, and here, Supreme Verdict's appearance is hit or miss in the main beyond as a one-of.
I don't disagree that Stoneblade needs wrath effects to accomplish it's goal. I've thus far not felt that games have reached the point were I've let the board state get to a point where I need to wrath. Between discard and Swords to Plowshares, I've generally been able to manage. Lingering Souls is also very effective at stalling games and carrying Jitte, which is essentially a board wipe once active.
The printing of TNN does cause concern, since a wrath effect is the only way for Stoneblade to deal with it when it lands outside of racing (which I've done via Jitte). I therefore see a strong argument for packing a Verdict or two in the main.
From my experience, Perish is a sick board wipe against the meta. Think about it. BUG loses all its dudes except Baleful Strix, Jund loses everything but Bob, and Delver loses everything but Delver. Elves folds if it can't combo before you cast it. Perish is cheaper than Verdict and usually you can play around counters via discard or your own.
My board currently has two Supreme Verdicts as a catch-all answer and a necessary answer to Merfolk, 1 Perish for its use against most creature decks, and one Zealous Persecution for D&T and other TNN.
So I've been working the last few months on tightening my cube list up to support the sixteen macro-archetypes of Magic, based on Patrick Chapin's analysis in his ebook Next Level Deckbuilding. Of all the archetypes, I've managed to get each to function pretty successfully except for Storm combo. I'm aware that there's a long-standing tradition of labeling Storm as unplayable in basically every limited format (at least in recent years). I'm wondering if anyone has managed to incorporate a Storm archetype in their cube without warping the environment too heavily.
I've been through two levels of thinking so far. The first was creating the archetype as it existed on the MTGO Cube. It was four colors, primarily blue and black, with some red and green. Typically, the route to victory involved landing a Heartbeat of Spring, untapping lands with Turnabout or Rude Awakening, and chaining cantrips and Yawgmoth's Will until a Tendrils kill was possible. The problem I ran into was that the deck required several pieces to function at all. If the Heartbeat of Spring or Yawgmoth's Will or Tendrils was picked up by someone else, the deck did nothing. Furthermore, it required a complex manabase to be consistent, resulting in a drafting experience that almost never worked. In theory, the deck could combo kill on turn five or six successfully, but it never once came together in practice.
Right now, I've shifted away from green entirely, focusing on a red ritual-based mana acceleration plan with Past in Flames for a Empty the Warrens kill. The problem here is that the deck can't actually combo off until turn four or five, at which point many other archetypes can deal with twenty goblins or kill on the next turn regardless. I'm considering moving to Brainfreeze as a primary kill condition and leaving Empty as an alternate against any decks packing Eldrazi.
For reference, I have my cube on Cube Tutor linked in my sig.
The wrong way LD is used is to simply prolong a game. If it's progressed to turn 10 or so, and there's some board development but not a lot, and then someone casts Armageddon, people have a right to be annoyed. The LD doesn't accomplish anything for the caster other than reset the field to a virtual turn 0, so that everyone has to rebuild. In this sense, there is no real strategic point to the LD other than "He had a lot of mana and I stopped him from winning" which is a pretty weak argument. People who do this deserve to be shunned.
The proper way for LD is to give a tactical advantage to the user. This still can upset people, but it is at least done with a purpose. For example. Kaalia of the Vast gets accelerated out, suits up Greaves, and goes to town. Casting an Armageddon here is advantageous because it lets a threat attack unimpeded. The LD is part of the win strategy, not just "oh cool big spell" effect. This kind of LD should be discussed by a playgroup so people are ready for it if it comes.
I would imagine that a meta that attacks mana more aggressive would be more detrimental to a four-color Deathblade deck that plays a limited number of blue lands than the UWR Delver decks that make blue mana with every land outside of Wasteland.
I'm inclined to believe UWR Delver is not only the best Mystic/Nemesis deck, but probably the best deck in the format. It attacks with Delver for early pressure, Mystic for midgame advantage and Nemesis/Bolts for reach and inevitability. A suite of 12 counterspells makes it's combo matchup pretty sturdy and 8 pieces of removal make other creature decks a walk in the park.
I'd also advocate a variant of Stoneblade because it is the only Nemesis deck that can consistently answer other Nemeses with Supreme Verdict, packs a good suite of disruption between counterspells and discard, and has a pretty stable matchup against everything outside of fringe decks like Lands (though Storm is often a coin flip).
I don't have much experience with Bant and Deathblade, but I feel Deathblade's mana is a bit shaky, and Jund is probably a better attrition midrange deck. I like Bant, but no FOW in the main makes me wonder how strong it's matchup with Combo is.
If you're still interested in Delver, Owen's UWR Delver is probably the best deck in the format currently. Twelve main deck counterspells coupled with Delver, Mystic, Nemesis and equipment, it has a fast clock and lots of disruption.
In a sentence, it does a bit of everything.
Elves gained Deathrite Shaman, which gave it interaction with some combo decks that were faster.
The reason Zoo fell off the map is it's poor matchups across the board. It's clock isn't faster than Storm or Show and Tell, and it lacks any disruption to stop these decks from racing them. Zoo also folds to Wasteland, since Nacatl, Kird Ape, and Loam Lion all depend on having multiple basic land types.
^ This.
Extirpate, by nature, does not have any answers. You have to play around it and not let it become an issue to begin with.
I'll be testing against Shardless BUG a bit tomorrow, so I'll have more information on how much TNN changes things. I agree the Notion Thief may be spreading myself too thin, but its utility against combo by shutting off their cantrips, while slow, is pretty good. This guy is definitely in a flex spot and might change.
The concern for Blood Moon is a concession to the expected meta at the GP. Without any byes, I expect to play through a couple Tier 2 decks like Burn and Goblins, as well as decks like Painted Stone, all of which I don't want to lose to. Blue Blast also counters/kills Sneak Attack and Burning Wish, which might be more prevalent.
I definitely agree that the one-ofs are not always going to show, but I think the value of Clique, Sphere, and Tar Pit is enough to warrant slots. Clique has been good nearly every game I see it in, and Tar Pit works as mana fixing as well as a clock against decks I need a faster clock against. The Sphere is essentially a Vindicate with the ability to counter a Show and Tell. Baleful Strix is questionable but still not a bad card. Would it be better as a TNN?
I definitely agree that my list is "unfocused" in that it tries to cast a wide net, but the appeal of Stoneblade for me has always been its fair chance against pretty much the entire field. I know some matches, like 12 Post, are vastly not in our favor, but against the popular Tier 1 decks (RUG, BUG, D&T, Show and Tell, Storm, Miracles, Jund) and the common Tier 2 favorites (Goblins, Merfolk, Burn, Belcher, Dredge) we always have a fighting chance.
I do appreciate the constructive criticism. It's good to hear the plain truth in the face of my personal biases.
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Baleful Strix
2 True Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Lingering Souls
1 Detention Sphere
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
2 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Meddling Mage
2 Flusterstorm
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Disenchant
1 Perish
1 Blue Elemental Blast
Maindeck Explanations
Four Stoneforge Mystic because duh.
Two Snapcaster Mage for value. Against combo, discard, discard, Snapcaster discard is really backbreaking. He's not the greatest anymore, but still worth it. He's also a good clock against Storm and Show and Tell, which the deck needs.
One Baleful Strix for value also. He doesn't really do anything but provide a roadblock for fair decks while replacing himself. Good value, but not game-winning.
Two True-Name Nemesis. This guy is really good, but he isn't a fast clock. I think he's superior to Geist of Saint Traft in general based on his utility against fair decks, but against combo, he's far worse than Geist. Against Storm or Show and Tell, he's a 3-power dude for three mana. Not the greatest.
One Vendilion Clique. This guy compensates for TNN in the combo matchup. Clique actually does something to disrupt them, has flash so you can hold up Spell Pierce and Clique when the coast is clear, and has virtually the same on-board effect as TNN. This guy has always been stellar and I don't want to battle without one. Karakas interaction is also good.
Three Jace, the Mind Sculptor, because this guy always does work, and he's one of the better finishers against Miracles. Terminus is an out against our dudes, including TNN, so Jace provides us a path that ignores a lot of what Miracles does.
One Batterskull, one Jitte. Standard equipment. Active Jitte still blows out Death and Taxes and can race opposing TNN.
Four Force of Will, two Spell Pierce. Full suite of Force to hedge against random combo decks and mainstream combo decks. Spell Pierce as additional backup.
Four Brainstorm/Swords to Plowshares. Traditional. Don't think this should change.
Three Thoughtseize, two Inquisition of Kozilek. Hand disruption against combo is awesome. Stealing Batterskull from Death and Taxes is great. Pairs up well with Snapcaster.
Two Lingering Souls. Chump blocking and Edict protection against various fair decks.
One Detention Sphere. Swapped out Vindicate because this card makes more sense against Show and Tell. I don't like it against BUG, where Vindicate was a solid out against Liliana, but this is just a call that needs to be made.
Creeping Tar Pit for killing planeswalkers like Lily or Jace and helping our clock against combo.
Karakas for Show and Tell and Clique shenanigans.
Two Wasteland for free wins when combined with discard. Also, see Rishadan Port.
Sideboard
Notion Thief against BUG. Catching combo off guard when they Brainstorm is awesome.
Rest in Peace for RUG, Jund, Dredge, Reanimator, Storm, etc.
Surgical Extraction for Dredge, Reanimator, Combo, Jund, etc.
Meddling Mage for Combo.
Flusterstorm for Combo.
Supreme Verdict, Perish, Zealous Persecution. Perish against most creatures. Supreme Verdict against Merfolk and TNN. Zealous Persecution against D&T and TNN.
Disenchant for value.
Blue Elemental Blast for value.
I'm generally satisfied with the board, and I've conceded some slots for less good decks that are easy for people to play, like Burn and Merfolk. Sulfuric Vortex from RUG and the potential Blood Moons from random decks makes me want Disenchant and Blue Blast even more.
Thoughts? I think this is a pretty stock Esper list that I've tested for close to a year now.
This is precisely why I run four basics as a rule, and generally fetch them first against an unknown deck. Even though I need a dual land to cast Verdict (double white), it's usually fine to play out the dual as a 4th land and then sweep. At that point, you aren't as concerned about Wasteland.
I also run 2 Wasteland of my own for Ports, which do get really annoying.
Response to the bolded: I think most lists are very capable of having reasonably aggressive draws, between SFM, TNN, Geist, Lingering Souls, Snapcaster, Vendilion Clique, and Baleful Strix. To devote more deck space to tempo cards would compromise the control element to the point that you might as well move into a tempo build like RUG or BUG. See every argument for why Deathblade isn't really viable.
Again, if gaining card advantage while having a threat is what you want, I think Bob is worth considering. He functions well as a card advantage engine and can turn the corner relatively fast attacking non-interactive decks.
To address you last comment, I still believe finding the cards that do the most work in different situations is key. Like you said, a control deck wants to answer everything. If our strategy is to have Card A for Deck A, Card B for Deck B, etc., then if we don't draw the proper cards we don't actually do anything. That's why finding cards that function well for Deck A and B is the better place to be. Vendilion Clique is a prime example of this and the reason I never want to cut it from my list; it's a fast, evasive clock, can serve as removal in a pinch, works as hand disruption against your opponent and can even serve as filtering if you Clique yourself. That it pitches to Force also makes it part of a counterspell also.
I like the premise of Baleful Strix as card advantage, removal, and a source of damage. It isn't the most stellar card in the world, so I can't see playing more than two, but it's definitely worth testing. This is also why I think TNN will probably be superior to Geist. You compromise the potential for a fast clock for a huge increase in utility.
The caveat to the above reasoning is that some cards are so powerful that they're a necessity. Swords to Plowshares is an example of this. It does one thing, but it does it so much better than any alternative that it's worth playing.
I think you're correct that there is plenty of room to explore. I would add Jitte to the list of requirements too, as the CounterTop list had one in the board. Then, boil it down even further to this:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
That seems to be the very core of the deck. The cards that go in around it can be classified as efficient creatures, card advantage, hand disruption, countermagic, removal, alternate finishers, and mana base.
Efficient Creatures
Delver of Secrets
Deathrite Shaman
Snapcaster Mage
Dark Confidant
Baleful Strix
Geist of Saint Traft
True-Name Nemesis
Vendilion Clique
Card Advantage
Ponder
Preordain
Sensei's Divining Top
Hand Disruption
Thoughtseize
Inquisition of Kozilek
Liliana of the Veil
Hymn to Tourach
Countermagic
Force of Will
Daze
Spell Pierce
Counterspell
Flusterstorm
Counterbalance
Removal
Vindicate
Detention Sphere
Supreme Verdict
Engineered Explosives
Alternate Win-Cons
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Lingering Souls
Entreat the Angels
Mana Base
Fetchlands
Dual Lands
Basic Lands
Wasteland
Karakas
Academy Ruins
Creeping Tar Pit
Well, that's a pretty rudimentary list. I'm sure there are a dozen things missing, but that pretty much sums up what I think is worth consideration for the main deck.
I think the key in finding an optimal list (I'm sure there are more than one) is getting cards that fit multiple categories. Clique is an efficient creature as well as hand disruption, Jace is card advantage, pseudo-removal, and an alternate win-con. Finding the cards that do the most work in different categories or are clearly the best at their job (Force of Will) is the key to having a strong list.
Playing Chrome Mox seems really awful to me. They're terrible top decks after the first couple turns, and considering we're the control deck looking to go long, I don't want to be drawing them mid/late game. Also, you'd need to play 3-4 to reliably get them in your opener.
I also find Daze rather easy to play around, as most of my regular testing is against RUG/Blue tempo decks and combo decks. Sure, it puts you behind a turn if you wait until turn 3 to play a SFM, but you're also making that Daze a dead card for them. And you're fine with playing a longer game in most cases so slowing down a turn isn't that terrible.
I really do like Pithing Needle as well, especially against D&T. I used to play with one in the board, but currently I don't have room for it. I might test it over a fifth discard spell in the main.
When I mentioned "managing" the first few turns, I was doing so under the assumption that we were in game 1. After board you have sweepers to get the job done and can be less concerned about managing, especially if the opponent dilutes their strategy to interfere with yours.
The nice thing about Lingering Souls is that it is great against counters and discard. Even if it gets Dazed, the two spirits on flashback can trade with Delver, chump a Goyf and effectively gain 8-10 life, or draw removal if the opponent wants to push through damage. Even if they interfere with you playing the Lingering Souls, you're still trading one card for their disruption plus something else.
I'm also unconvinced that Sulfur Elemental, Dread of Night, and Engineered Plague are actually relevant against us even if we do play Lingering Souls, since the worst they do is shut off 2-3 cards playing an otherwise do-nothing spell.
It's true that Esper Stoneblade has fallen from Tier 1 in terms of finishes. That said, looking at recent tournaments here, here, here, and here, Supreme Verdict's appearance is hit or miss in the main beyond as a one-of.
I don't disagree that Stoneblade needs wrath effects to accomplish it's goal. I've thus far not felt that games have reached the point were I've let the board state get to a point where I need to wrath. Between discard and Swords to Plowshares, I've generally been able to manage. Lingering Souls is also very effective at stalling games and carrying Jitte, which is essentially a board wipe once active.
The printing of TNN does cause concern, since a wrath effect is the only way for Stoneblade to deal with it when it lands outside of racing (which I've done via Jitte). I therefore see a strong argument for packing a Verdict or two in the main.
From my experience, Perish is a sick board wipe against the meta. Think about it. BUG loses all its dudes except Baleful Strix, Jund loses everything but Bob, and Delver loses everything but Delver. Elves folds if it can't combo before you cast it. Perish is cheaper than Verdict and usually you can play around counters via discard or your own.
My board currently has two Supreme Verdicts as a catch-all answer and a necessary answer to Merfolk, 1 Perish for its use against most creature decks, and one Zealous Persecution for D&T and other TNN.