"If that player does not..." implies that the opposing player had a choice, where Wasitora does not give them a choice. They have to sac something. If they can't you get a token. The 'you' removes any confusion as to who gets the token.
Compare Spawnwrithe and Giant Adephage. There has never been any confusion as to who gets the token from a combat damage trigger created by a permanent you control. In fact, when you do see these effects give tokens to players besides the active player, they specify.
But neither has updated text with "create" afaik or have a trigger that involve the opponent doing something.
Both have updated text in Oracle (for some reason the text on MTGS is outdated) that uses "create", and the wording makes it obvious that you are the one who gets the token.
Giant Adephage's text:
Whenever Giant Adephage deals combat damage to a player, create a token that's a copy of Giant Adephage.
Those cards don't refer to the opponent doing anything other than taking damage though.
I get the feeling this is a "Whenever you cycle or discard" type situation. Functionally, it doesn't matter, but adding one word to make things absolutely clear to a format that is much more likely to entice casual players isn't going to hurt the experienced ones.
I suppose it's possible we'll see a system wide oracle update on the text describing token creation effects on August 25th, when this releases. But then wouldn't you expect that change to be applied proactively to all token producing effects on cards released in the same set? Look at the Broodmate Dragon in the first image. It's still using the current rules text for token production, the one from its Modern Masters 3 reprint. Should that not be:
"When Broodmate Dragon enters the battlefield, you create a 4/4 red Dragon creature token with flying."
It's true it doesn't matter where mechanics are involved. It does suggest though that these cards are were written by people who were less careful with their rules text word choice, or that the cards themselves may have been unfinished, unedited drafts.
So I don't think these are real and mostly that because of what I'm interpreting as a syntax error on Wasitora:
"If the player can't..." is and unusual phrasing of this ability for MTG rules text. Typically this would be "If that player does not..."
Also "you create..." instead of just "create." Both of these are weird phrasing for MTG rules text. The word 'you' here is completely unnecessary.
The first example actually introduces rules confusion, because now I have to define "can't" or 'not being able to do something' as an event in the rules distinct from that particular thing simply not happening.
So setting aside my general lack of enthusiasm for more indulgent five color bulk, I doubt these are real at all.
"If that player does not..." implies that the opposing player had a choice, where Wasitora does not give them a choice. They have to sac something. If they can't you get a token. The 'you' removes any confusion as to who gets the token.
Compare Spawnwrithe and Giant Adephage. There has never been any confusion as to who gets the token from a combat damage trigger created by a permanent you control. In fact, when you do see these effects give tokens to players besides the active player, they specify.
So I don't think these are real and mostly that because of what I'm interpreting as a syntax error on Wasitora:
"If the player can't..." is and unusual phrasing of this ability for MTG rules text. Typically this would be "If that player does not..."
Also "you create..." instead of just "create." Both of these are weird phrasing for MTG rules text. The word 'you' here is completely unnecessary.
The first example actually introduces rules confusion, because now I have to define "can't" or 'not being able to do something' as an event in the rules distinct from that particular thing simply not happening.
So setting aside my general lack of enthusiasm for more indulgent five color bulk, I doubt these are real at all.
I don't play 5-color-combo, but I easily could. I have to wonder if the five color variants aren't better than the four color ones. Red offers gamble, wheel/loot effects, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker redundancy as a combo with Karmic Guide or Reveillark. The combos have so many different avenues you could take at that point; people will absolutely be switching to this in my meta.
Turn one and two disruption is going to be key for keeping this under control, and really in 100-card singleton I think that's too much to ask for even the most cutthroat decks unless they start maindecking things like instant speed Extract, Faerie Macabre, and Surgical Extraction, in addition to the Noxious Revivals and 1cmc counterspells they're running now. All that in addition to Grafdiggers, Leyline of the Void, and Rest in Peace. This seems like the kind of format warping card the RC has been looking to root out.
See, this is commander playable. A versatile, cheap, silver bullet that can fight just about every combo deck in the format, and demands that ambitious players deal with it. We can definitely work with this.
The blue in this thread is so bright I have to wear a shade.
I saw a Winter Orb/Keranos, God of Storms deck in the past and it was effective, but like many others it requires additional cards to become suppressive (because he also has the versatility to go another deck style, which is an advantage).
Is Lavinia of the Tenth a good general for suppression? CC of 4 or less might miss a lot of permanents in EDH, would it not?
I've only seen Lavinia do work when she was being used as part of some kind of lock flickering her, or bouncing and replaying, and even then it wasn't particularly great because at any point someone could've drawn something relevant and killed her in response to her etb trigger, or just prevented her from resolving. And at and five mana, I don't even like her in the 99.
That is hideous. Like he's not oppressive enough already slotting in cards like Winter Orb and Tangle Wire. It's not Erayo level evil, but if you hit the right person with it, it can be. And it's colorless. Why?
Compare it to Tireless Tracker, where you accumulate draw triggers you can use when you've mana to use them instead of in the middle of your main phases (usually), and occasionally do stuff just by sitting on the board. Oh and it's a green creature (super-tutorable, and a three-drop (as opposed to a four drop). I think we can safely leave Seer's Sundial in 2010.
I'm torn on Baral. that loot ability is not CA, if we don't thoughtfully pace ourselves our hands will evaporate even faster than normal, and without a decently sized hand Baral does nothing The obvious design direction here is some variant of draw-go, but we already know that's not really viable to build a deck around because the tools to play that deck (1 cmc counters, cheap/free Draw spells/cantrips, cheap bounce, etc.) already exists in abundance here, and we know that these kind of decks can keep control 1v1, but can't keep tempo and CA in multiplayer without ridiculous (Edric levels) of card advantage. Since so many of those spells are already dirt cheap, the value of what is essentially a sapphire medallion in the command zone is a bit lessened. Worse still, I wonder if I'm not being lured into playing greedier spells and effects that I might not be able to pay for if Baral isn't on the field, which can then backfire on me if I'm unable to keep him there.
Thalia, both of them, but particularly 1.0. More competitive than Hokori IMO, because it's faster and hates out more competitive decks (Mostly storm, but also anything that tries to abuse alternative casting costs)
Llawan, Cephalid Empress can be backbreaking for some decks and completely inconsequential for others. Definitely not on the level of everything else I'm talking about here, but a decent casual alternative.
Teferi 1.0 grants complete stack control. It sounds like a total power trip, but I've found it to be a bit of a trap because now no one else can provide tack control but you, and that means you re now solely responsible for making sure the other three players can't assemble their game winning combo and that represents a lot of mana and cards. All the while people are attacking you for locking them out of the stack. It's not a good look. He's probably better as a combo insurance piece played EOT before untapping and going off.
Daretti and Teferi PW both support stax and LD strats with gusto by making them really imbalanced in your favor, even though they don't really bring any of their own hate to the table.
Sisay and Karador are often used to toolbox hatebears like this with Karador providing black, tutors, and recursion; and Sisay providing a very strong tutor effect always present in the command zone that can swiss army knife just about anything. The power of these decks is always meta-dependent and they all pretty much assume you're modifying your toolbox to hate out specific strats or decks in your meta.
The only advantages I see here is being able to run some of them (really only Thrasios) with four colors instead of two, and running a deck of 98 cards instead of 99. If you were playing a deck where the commander didn't matter, then you might as well run a partner pair (Thrasios + whomever).
I suppose it's possible we'll see a system wide oracle update on the text describing token creation effects on August 25th, when this releases. But then wouldn't you expect that change to be applied proactively to all token producing effects on cards released in the same set? Look at the Broodmate Dragon in the first image. It's still using the current rules text for token production, the one from its Modern Masters 3 reprint. Should that not be:
"When Broodmate Dragon enters the battlefield, you create a 4/4 red Dragon creature token with flying."
It's true it doesn't matter where mechanics are involved. It does suggest though that these cards are were written by people who were less careful with their rules text word choice, or that the cards themselves may have been unfinished, unedited drafts.
Compare Spawnwrithe and Giant Adephage. There has never been any confusion as to who gets the token from a combat damage trigger created by a permanent you control. In fact, when you do see these effects give tokens to players besides the active player, they specify.
"If the player can't..." is and unusual phrasing of this ability for MTG rules text. Typically this would be "If that player does not..."
Also "you create..." instead of just "create." Both of these are weird phrasing for MTG rules text. The word 'you' here is completely unnecessary.
The first example actually introduces rules confusion, because now I have to define "can't" or 'not being able to do something' as an event in the rules distinct from that particular thing simply not happening.
So setting aside my general lack of enthusiasm for more indulgent five color bulk, I doubt these are real at all.
Turn one and two disruption is going to be key for keeping this under control, and really in 100-card singleton I think that's too much to ask for even the most cutthroat decks unless they start maindecking things like instant speed Extract, Faerie Macabre, and Surgical Extraction, in addition to the Noxious Revivals and 1cmc counterspells they're running now. All that in addition to Grafdiggers, Leyline of the Void, and Rest in Peace. This seems like the kind of format warping card the RC has been looking to root out.
He breaks parity with Winter Orb, Static Orb, Back to Basics and Rising Waters.
He's really strong with other mana rocks/high tide
He ignores hate like Leovold, Emissary of Trest and Spirit of the Labyrinth.
He is one half of his own win condition
Play him, a few other PWs, chain veil, and toolbox a bunch of hate rocks to shut down whatever it is your meta likes to win with (Meekstone, Ensnaring Bridge, Trinisphere, Cursed Totem, Torpor Orb, Grafdigger's Cage, etc.), alongside spells to find that hate. Garnish with All is Dust, Cyclonic Rift, and Chain of Vapor.
I've only seen Lavinia do work when she was being used as part of some kind of lock flickering her, or bouncing and replaying, and even then it wasn't particularly great because at any point someone could've drawn something relevant and killed her in response to her etb trigger, or just prevented her from resolving. And at and five mana, I don't even like her in the 99.
Compare it to Tireless Tracker, where you accumulate draw triggers you can use when you've mana to use them instead of in the middle of your main phases (usually), and occasionally do stuff just by sitting on the board. Oh and it's a green creature (super-tutorable, and a three-drop (as opposed to a four drop). I think we can safely leave Seer's Sundial in 2010.
I actually ran it bit in a decidated landfall deck before realizing how 'fair' it was compared to all the other draw effects I already ran (granted I had access to blue, so Mystic Remora and Rhystic Study were a thing). Still weigh that against Sylvan Library, Mirri's Guile, Triumph of Ferocity, Sensei's Divining Top, Skullclamp, Wheel of Fortune, Reforge the Soul, and variations on Collective Unconsciousness or Soul's Majesty (including Greater Good). Build that up with good cantrips like Elvish Visionary or Krosan Tusker to keep the hand cycling. I'd turn to all of those before the Sundial.
Llawan, Cephalid Empress can be backbreaking for some decks and completely inconsequential for others. Definitely not on the level of everything else I'm talking about here, but a decent casual alternative.
Teferi 1.0 grants complete stack control. It sounds like a total power trip, but I've found it to be a bit of a trap because now no one else can provide tack control but you, and that means you re now solely responsible for making sure the other three players can't assemble their game winning combo and that represents a lot of mana and cards. All the while people are attacking you for locking them out of the stack. It's not a good look. He's probably better as a combo insurance piece played EOT before untapping and going off.
Daretti and Teferi PW both support stax and LD strats with gusto by making them really imbalanced in your favor, even though they don't really bring any of their own hate to the table.
Sisay and Karador are often used to toolbox hatebears like this with Karador providing black, tutors, and recursion; and Sisay providing a very strong tutor effect always present in the command zone that can swiss army knife just about anything. The power of these decks is always meta-dependent and they all pretty much assume you're modifying your toolbox to hate out specific strats or decks in your meta.