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  • osieorb18's avatar

    3

    Dec 16, 2020
    osieorb18 posted a message on Two new planeswalkers Niko Aris and Tyvar Kell (bio only)
    Yo, just another friendly neighbourhood user here, but there's no need to attack Decadent here. Maybe step away from the thread, cool down, and come back a little more pleasantly? Thanks.

    Ancient localized culture and modern localized culture are both localized culture. It's perfectly reasonable of you to make a distinction between the two, but there is no need to call someone daft or an imbecile in the process of doing so.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • osieorb18's avatar

    1

    Dec 1, 2020
    osieorb18 posted a message on Kaldheim set booster box leak
    Quote from Tiro of Meletis »
    It's not like MaRo intentionally put out a poorly designed product or only realized it in hindsight. They had objective information that indicated that - which he has repeated multiple times on Blogatog, Twitter, and in other places.


    What are you talking about? All that has been linked in the thread thus far is him saying it was poorly designed but still was "the best selling set in the 26-year history of Magic."
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • osieorb18's avatar

    2

    Dec 1, 2020
    osieorb18 posted a message on Kaldheim set booster box leak
    Quote from Tiro of Meletis »
    Quote from osieorb18 »
    Quote from Xcric »
    Quote from FlossedBeaver »
    Quote from Tiro of Meletis »
    *snip*


    So do you have links / evidence? I'm equally happy to receive them via PM.

    Statistics regarding BFZ being a commercial failure would surely qualify, if such a thing exists.


    there are damn near countless articles out there pertaining as to why bfz was poorly received. it was even acknolwedged by maro in an article he wrote that they focused on the wrong aspects of zendikar for that set.

    additionally, don't forget the block had expeditions. as i've said more and more frequently in recent months, a set can be a commercial success and still be a failure. sales data is not the be all metric for success.

    but sure fine. here's maro's article: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/state-design-2016-2016-08-29
    if you want more discussion on why/if bfz was poorly received just type it into google for a litany of articles
    Quote from Tiro of Meletis »
    Quote from Watchwolf »
    Quote from MrMoustacheMM »

    In fact, it was so poorly received that it is the best-selling set in Magic's history as of September 2019: https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/187585089848/how-would-you-respond-to-the-polite-criticism-that

    Between the popularity of the first Zendikar block, the mounting anticipation of a more coherent story, exceptional marketing, and the inclusion of the first and best Masterpieces, the commercial success of BFZ likely had very little to do with the set itself.
    Exactly. Lots of confounding factors.

    Apparently MaRo himself admitting the set was poorly received, and market research, are not valid enough sources.
    Quote from MrMoustacheMM »
    Quote from Xcric »
    it was a poorly received set.

    In fact, it was so poorly received that it is the best-selling set in Magic's history as of September 2019: https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/187585089848/how-would-you-respond-to-the-polite-criticism-that


    The article that Xcric shared in fact states that it was poorly designed, but never that the set was poorly received or a market failure. And then MrMoustache turns it around with Maro's post saying that it was the best-selling set as of that point. That's pretty high praise for something so "poorly received".
    They deemed the design poor because of how it was received in market research. It's not like MaRo intentionally put out a poorly designed product or only realized it in hindsight. They had objective information that indicated that - which he has repeated multiple times on Blogatog, Twitter, and in other places.


    Did you read the link that MrMoustache shared?

    BFZ was the best-selling Magic set of all time. Maro directly refuted the idea that it was unpopular with:

    Battle for Zendikar is the best selling set in the 26-year history of Magic.

    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • osieorb18's avatar

    3

    Dec 1, 2020
    osieorb18 posted a message on Kaldheim set booster box leak
    Quote from Xcric »
    Quote from FlossedBeaver »
    Quote from Tiro of Meletis »
    *snip*


    So do you have links / evidence? I'm equally happy to receive them via PM.

    Statistics regarding BFZ being a commercial failure would surely qualify, if such a thing exists.


    there are damn near countless articles out there pertaining as to why bfz was poorly received. it was even acknolwedged by maro in an article he wrote that they focused on the wrong aspects of zendikar for that set.

    additionally, don't forget the block had expeditions. as i've said more and more frequently in recent months, a set can be a commercial success and still be a failure. sales data is not the be all metric for success.

    but sure fine. here's maro's article: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/state-design-2016-2016-08-29
    if you want more discussion on why/if bfz was poorly received just type it into google for a litany of articles
    Quote from Tiro of Meletis »
    Quote from Watchwolf »
    Quote from MrMoustacheMM »

    In fact, it was so poorly received that it is the best-selling set in Magic's history as of September 2019: https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/187585089848/how-would-you-respond-to-the-polite-criticism-that

    Between the popularity of the first Zendikar block, the mounting anticipation of a more coherent story, exceptional marketing, and the inclusion of the first and best Masterpieces, the commercial success of BFZ likely had very little to do with the set itself.
    Exactly. Lots of confounding factors.

    Apparently MaRo himself admitting the set was poorly received, and market research, are not valid enough sources.
    Quote from MrMoustacheMM »
    Quote from Xcric »
    it was a poorly received set.

    In fact, it was so poorly received that it is the best-selling set in Magic's history as of September 2019: https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/187585089848/how-would-you-respond-to-the-polite-criticism-that


    The article that Xcric shared in fact states that it was poorly designed, but never that the set was poorly received or a market failure. And then MrMoustache turns it around with Maro's post saying that it was the best-selling set as of that point. That's pretty high praise for something so "poorly received".
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • osieorb18's avatar

    5

    Sep 29, 2020
    osieorb18 posted a message on [RETIRED] [Admin] bobthefunny's Strategic Chalkboard
    Quote from Banned1 »
    I'm going to direct this one at bob, for obvious reasons (apart from the fact that this is his thread):

    Is there a way that we can connect or converse more directly with the site owners? I would like to know why your site admins seem to think it's okay to casually use the word 'lynch' in the current political climate. See this post: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/817898-voldemorts-throne-room-mafia-game-over-town-win?comment=4901

    Given that lynch is a word with very heavy racial overtones, and that we're currently suffering from societal issues around extrajudicial killings, it doesn't strike me that this is acceptable discourse. Perhaps there is some context that I'm unaware of; it doesn't matter. This was discovered by way of a site admin's profile and viewing their most recent posts, and if there's something buried in that thread to explain it, I don't see how any casual observer would bother to sift through ~5,000 posts for an explanation. I wouldn't hesitate to report a random poster for using such language, I certainly don't see how the site owners can lay claim to promoting a 'neutral' atmosphere here at MTGS when even their own admins exercise poor judgment in conversation.

    Given the discourse that has already transpired in this very thread (for whatever that's worth), it would only serve to validate the impression that MTGS has an alt-right bias if shadowlancerx were allowed to maintain their current level of power and authority. I respectfully urge that the wolf be removed from the sheep. Thank you.


    Is this Flow speaking again trying to repeat what happened on MU?

    The forum mafia community on MtGSalvation (and elsewhere) has addressed the use of the word "lynch" and taken steps to move away from it. This has become the standard across major forum mafia communities, with people using "execute", "eliminate", "kill", or "yeet", among others. There is not an active censorship of the word "lynch" for most communities because it would reap more negative results than positive. Not from people not being willing to change, but from change taking time.

    Having been in an admin position in another forum mafia community for about two years now, we also brought up the change. And the same discussion happened in every other forum mafia community I've seen:

    • Censorship is not a policy to maintain and opens up a very different can of worms.
    • The community is diverse; there are non-US-citizens for whom censorship of the word "lynch" is Americans forcing their own problems on the rest of the community.
    • It is possible to encourage use of other words and doing so will be more effective over time to peacefully ensure stepping away from the word "lynch" than censorship.

    A small few forum mafia communities have still chosen to censor the word, but the more common forum mafia community consensus is one of encouraging other words instead of one of punishing people for using the word.

    Additionally, while Shadowlancerx is a member of the MTGSalvation forum mafia community, he does not uniquely represent it. It is an active part of the site which as of most recent discussion, even prior to Shadowlancerx becoming an admin, there were no plans to remove from the site, despite past MTGSalvation admin history of hating on, bullying, and removing non-Magic sections and members involved in said sections. Unlike other admins, Shadow and bob are good people, not emblematic of the rampant bullying of site users, disgusting back-doors gossip, and admin-maintained drama for the sake of drama which has been the normal from MtGSalvation site admins for years. MTGSalvation as a site had become a dead whale since long before the site threatened to close. The previous group of admins realized this and left to make their own site, cutting off anyone who didn't want to switch over as unworthy. Leaving behind a skeleton crew to run things and knowing that the support of the Commander RC and similar sorts of little odds and ends would keep their site afloat rather than what was left of MTGSalvation. Shadowlancerx was asked to step up as a staff member who was prominent in one of the only groups still active on the site, the forum mafia community.

    The MtGSalvation forum mafia community has already had offers from other forum mafia communities to join them elsewhere. I was one of several making that offer. The MTGSalvation forum mafia community, while it has had more history than the site itself, has always been a positive contribution even at its lowest moments.

    In addition to running a mafia community, like mikeyG, I also used to moderate the Debate section here. There is no impression that MTGSalvation has an alt-right bias. There never has been. MtGSalvation has always been accused of being a liberal echo-chamber.



    Quote from bobthefunny »
    This thread is not a replacement for the (closed) debate forum.


    While this thread is not a replacement, a group of prominent MtGS Debate veterans have had a Discord replacement for a while now. Said Discord can be found here for any who are interested:

    The Once and Future Debate



    Quote from bobthefunny »
    5. You know what else would affect revenue? Becoming a Magic site that doesn't discuss Magic.

    If a person arrives at this site from google, wanting to look up an interaction, or discuss some new cards - but instead they see a bunch of people yelling at each other about entirely unrelated things? Well suddenly that makes this seem like a terrible site to come to for the answers to Magic related questions.

    ===

    I joined this site to discuss Magic. I joined it to discuss Commander. I joined the moderator team to help improve the goals of facilitating that kind of discussion. For the last THREE MONTHS, 95% of my interaction and duties on this site have been entirely non-magic related. I'm frankly getting sick and tired of this.


    It's almost like when you shut down the non-Magic sections of a site and move the Magic discussion to another site which is even more draconian about non-Magic discussion than MTGSalvation was because it is representative of the people who run it, you get non-Magic discussion in other sections of the first site... Not sure why this would be a surprise.



    Quote from bobthefunny »
    We do not have the staff to moderate a forum designated to this kind of discussion. We used to have a forum dedicated to this type of discussion, we did not have the staff then, and the forum devolved into 4chan lite. I have no desire to moderate a 4chan lite, nor do I believe it is feasible, nor appropriate for this site. Perhaps one day we will have staff that is interested in bringing this back, and willing to moderate it, and perhaps even make it appropriate for the site. Currently, none of those are true. I will die on this hill.


    Nah... You're confusing Debate with the Gutter because that's the propaganda that was pounded into all of our heads. It was never the same thing.

    Looking at the retired forum, there are 11 threads that needed to be deleted in the first page alone, and another 9 on the second page. That's not healthy. There are also a significant amount of red text, and banned members in the responses.


    Yeah, it was over-moderated as a policy, particularly by admins and a couple of overbearing global moderators, who like the admins, went out of their way to maintain high levels of drama throughout their dealings.

    I am well aware that there were several mods that held the forum in fond memory, however there was solid reason to shut it down at the time. Perhaps it could return one day, but today is definitely not the time.


    The solid reason to shut it down at the time was that both of the moderators involved (myself and Blinking Spirit) had other commitments. I had school which was taking up more and more of my time, and Blinking Spirit had their own personal concerns. These were not the primary reason it was shut down, though. They weren't even the spark. The admins at the time had openly made clear for years that they wanted to shut down as many non-Magic sections as they could. It was convenient. A section shutdown had been on the table for months.

    You can tell the behaviour in the section wasn't really the problem because the Debate regulars now participate in our own Discord, which necessitates a much lower level of moderation than the MtGS Debate section ever had.
    Posted in: Staff Helpdesks
  • osieorb18's avatar

    1

    Sep 29, 2020
    osieorb18 posted a message on [RETIRED] [Admin] bobthefunny's Strategic Chalkboard
    For anyone who didn't want to sift through the wall, the MTGSalvation Debate section replacement Discord (established around when the section closed) can be found here:

    The Once and Future Debate
    Posted in: Staff Helpdesks
  • osieorb18's avatar

    1

    Jul 22, 2020
    osieorb18 posted a message on The Mafia Council & Helpdesk Thread
    Quote from Cyan »
    I thought this site was being moved and wouldn't have Mafia any more or something. Anyway, hello old internet friends. I kind of miss you guys.


    Nah, they did move, so this site is slowly dying, but the mafia section will probably exist for some time.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • osieorb18's avatar

    4

    Jun 13, 2020
    osieorb18 posted a message on Don’t know if this is the right place to put this.
    Quote from Warforged Canuck »
    Censoring ideas only makes people hate you. This is another attempt by wotc to pander to a vocal minority so they can't be named for 'not doing anything' if this weren't going on, it'd be their cringe levels of pride that they do this time every year. Freedom of speech is important, and once you start labeling things as 'hatespeech' you'll eventually be strangled by the very limits you want.


    Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.

    Freedom of speech affects the federal government's ability to legislate your speech. Not really anything else.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • osieorb18's avatar

    1

    Apr 23, 2020
    osieorb18 posted a message on The Portal Storm: Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed Combo-Control
    Xiahou Dun Ikoria Review:

    I don't like this set very much.

    Call of the Death-Dweller - This might be worth it. It's a card I'm likely to consider again, too. I don't like the limitation, which is preventing me from instantly deciding to test it, but it's an interesting concept.

    Extinction Event - This card feels worse than current wrath options. Better than most of the options I'm not playing, though.

    Heartless Act - Worth considering for decks that are short on cheap removal.

    Bonders' Enclave - At 3 mana, the cost of the ability is painful. I think I'm going to ponder long and hard about this one because I'm not convinced that it's actually awful.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • osieorb18's avatar

    1

    Apr 23, 2020
    osieorb18 posted a message on [[Primer]] Norin the Wary - Heads I win, Tails you lose.
    Norin Ikoria Review:

    This set sucks and even its mother thinks that it is ugly.

    Farfinder - Worse than Pilgrim's Eye, Skittering Surveyor, or Solemn Simulacrum. And I'm only barely running Solemn Simulacrum out of that group.

    Footfall Crater - While this is worth considering for some decks in place of Lightning Greaves, most of the time it shouldn't be needed. And I don't run Lightning Greaves.

    Lukka, Coppercoat Outcast - Too restrictive as just creature-focus.

    Unpredictable Cyclone - Kinda cool, but not cool enough to go all-in on a cycling package.

    Yidaro, Wandering Monster - The problem with cycling cards is that they are essentially filler until you are casting them for their base effects. Yidaro is no exception, and its base effect is not good enough to warrant its investments.

    Bonders' Enclave - The average creature in the deck is too small for this card to make sense.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
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