MTG Salvation

Hello.

From when Iso first introduced me to online mafia on MtGS, I've always been here to design and then host games first and foremost, but I found myself enjoying playing as well, despite, to use one of my favourite quotes from Azrael, flailing "like a floppy new foal".

I've had a lot of good times here and have met many people whom I'm happy to call friends. Through this site, I was introduced to Mafia Society, now Mafia Colosseum, and through that community, many other communities, and more importantly, the love of my life.

I also have had some very negative memories on this site. As I mentioned in part in another thread, my history on this site before playing mafia was:


Many elements of this site, even some in the mafia section, have brought back some of those memories now and then, usually for the worst.

But mafia has generally been a positive for me. However, forum mafia has declined on a lot of sites and MtGS is no exception. I still have a handful of games which I wish to run, mostly a couple of specialty games, one of which Iso had inspired me to design, but I don't feel that we have the playerbase to run them here any more. I don't feel the same passion for the game here any more, either from myself, or from many of the people I've seen here. I may run one or more of those specialty games on MU if we get the people for it. I may hand the designs off to people more interested in hosting.

In addition, my real life expectations and opportunities are amping up over the next year or so, and I will need to focus on that.

As such, I think it's as good a time as any to finally finish closing the book on the MtGSalvation chapter of my life. I will likely still be semi-active on MC for as long as that site exists, and the Throne of Lies Mafia Forum as well for some amount of time. Maybe some others. Maybe MU for a game or two.

I will also endeavour to finish this year's podcast and give that to Silver to post whenever and wherever it makes sense to do so. It is twice as long as previous years, and that exponentiates the time it takes to edit it.

For the time being, I can be reached on Discord at osieorb18#0126 or on sites on which I'm active with this username. In addition, osieorb18@gmail.com can reach me a bit more slowly. Some of you have other, more reliable contact info for me as well. I will be staying in the MtGSMafia Discord for some time, but I anticipate that within the next year or two, my presence on Discord will slow significantly. I've already divided the number of servers I'm in by a factor of three, to a total of 15.

I happen to be a Doctor Who fan, and I feel this is a great quote for these sorts of circumstances.

"Times change and so must I... We all change, when you think about it, we're all different people; all through our lives, and that's okay, that's good, you've gotta keep moving, so long as you remember all the people that you used to be. I will not forget one line of this, not one day, I swear. I will always remember..."

Matt Smith, The Time of the Doctor

Thanks for the memories.

Lots of love,
Osie.

While I'm here...

This is probably one of the last times I'm posting here. I've been growing away from the game and don't play very often, as I've mentioned in the past. My experience on this site has had ups and downs.

I was an irregular for a while, then eventually started paying attention to various eternal format decklists, particularly EDH, and Custom Set Creation. I was here for a couple years as a moderator of Debate and Vintage, looking to moderate Commander throughout the entire time I was in those positions. Moderation had some fun moments, but I was constantly being ridiculed, scapegoated, gaslit, and held to a double standard by other staff, particularly senior staff. I stepped down when I realized that it had gotten to be too much, in the middle of such a conversation with one of the admins. I dealt with serious depression throughout my time as a moderator, and while I was allowed to take a break from the site, the site staff atmosphere was still not a helpful one.

Given the closing of Debate, I made a Debate discord, which is still a comfortable and active hangout to this day for the former MtGS Debate community.

Through my staff position, I met a few people I still call friends, one of whom got me into Mafia here. I enjoyed playing in the mafia section for a while and eventually branched out to other sites. I still regularly came back to MtGS to check spoilers, post set reviews, and occasionally play or host some mafia.

This Norin thread has been one of my favourite last links to this site, even as the spoilers are no longer useful (I use Mythic Spoiler), a chunk of the community no longer posts here, and my interest in Magic has declined alongside my rate of playing the game and my opinion of WotC as a company.

All in all, though, I feel old. I feel like even if I didn't feel now like WotC is an awful company, I'd still feel left behind by Magic. The designs don't feel designed for me. I don't get that sense of excitement that I used to get from new sets and new cards. And I'm only 28 years old.

I'll check back here a bit if I have the time this month, but I don't expect to be regularly posting set reviews or anything else for a while. With the mafia community moving on from MtGSalvation, I can finally let the site go.

Ending on one of my favourite Doctor Who quotes feels fitting:

"We all change, when you think about it, we're all different people; all through our lives, and that's okay, that's good, you've gotta keep moving, so long as you remember all the people that you used to be. I will not forget one line of this, not one day, I swear. I will always remember..."

Matt Smith, The Time of the Doctor

Strixhaven Review:

Introduction to Annihilation isn't as relevant with no more Iona in the format, but it's still a cool card.

Baleful Mastery is a serious consideration for the removal suite. Not confident about what I'd cut for it though.

Oriq Loremage is cool, but I don't think I want it at higher than 3 mana.

Professor Onyx - 6 mana? Oof. It's cool but way too costly.

The Biblioplex - Probably not quite good enough but fun to theorycraft.

Commander 2021 Review:

Cunning Rhetoric - I wish this was a bit stronger, but I like the style of the card.

Keen Duelist - If only it fit better! It's so good but yet so painful. Consideration all the same.

Stinging Study - At 4 mana, I'd seriously consider snatching this up. At 5, it's not quite worth it to me.

Quote from Fido »

Started a build based off of what you have going on; looks super fun. The playgroup arms race has certainly spun up a bit in my playgroup; excited to build this out a bit.

Have you considered Darksteel Mutation? 1v1 it's incredible, multiplayer it at least shuts down a general and makes it trickier to remove.

Is your list current still? (Sadly I'm without a few of those fun spendy cards, but making some fun changes of my own :P)

Thank you!

Re: Darksteel Mutation, I like Prison Term better, but it's an okay substitute.

Kaldheim Review:

Burning-Rune Demon - Interesting concept, not quite effective enough execution.

Draugr Necromancer - I'd consider a 3-drop version of this.

Dream Devourer - This seems really damn good. Setting up combo pieces and hiding them from people is solid, and playing, say, Painter's Servant, on turn 3 for 0 would be actually ridiculously good.

Replicating Ring - Too slow, but kinda cute.

Tyrite Sanctum - If the land slots weren't tight as is, I'd consider running this as a backup plan card. I might still consider it. Attacking with XHD is always fun.

Quote from Slothful »

I don't get the eaten up argument, honestly. Specially if we get like a small subsection (which was my understanding?).

But I've played at MC, and loud eye-hurty themes aside, it's pretty neat.
My concern with MC (and maybe someone else can talk here) is that I worry we'll end up having this same discussion there in a few months. Aren't they having the same issues filling up games/getting people?
@Osie

Sort-of. In a sense. It's not quite the same, and I have offers and requests for games there still quite often. We can also likely do some recruiting that was harder to do before if we have long phase games.

Quote from Rhand »

I can’t make up my mind about which is better, MC or MU.
If you ask me a different day, my answer will be different.
I am playing games both on MC and in a separate community on MU. I have the idea that MC being small actually will work against keeping our own identity because it will turn into a merge automatically. While MU is so large that being a separate entity seems to actually work. With some influx from the main site. At least that is what I see happening with CfC there.
MC in general is the nicer community though so if we do end up getting swallowed up, I prefer having that there over MU bigtime.
And it has Osie.

(Although Thingyman is yummie eye candy - almost as cute as Sloth)

I will follow whatever we decide.

Obviously a bit of bias but MU's partner community section has always seemed sorta... you get out what you put into it, I guess? The site itself is obviously better than any other on features, but the partner communities didn't seem to have gained much in the way of players from being mixed with MU. Maybe that's gotten better, dunno.

MC is very low activity at the moment and in that vein could end up similarly, but we can pretty much make anything happen in some form or other on the technical side of things and the bigger pressure at that point is recruitment, something which I'm not convinced is going to be a non-issue for the visitor communities. There's a little bit of a question on funding past 2022, but if there's activity there, there's definitely more ability to make that happen. The numbers aren't huge; without steady updates (which likely aren't super necessary at this point), they don't need to be higher than an average of about $150 per year, but that's big enough that it's easier to happen with more people. If we have long phase games, we may also be able to pull players from the other long phase Xenforo-based site, with which at least a couple of us are already familiar.

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

My game took a very long time to fill and only eventually filled through a massive recruiting effort by myself and Osie. And that can be exhausting for a host.

To say the least.

Quote from lyonhaert »

So your only cascade targets for casting Norin with Flamekin Herald out would be Mana Crypt, Mox Amber, Wheel of Fate, and the potential Mox Opal?

All of which are probably worth it?

Quote from s0undfx »

Hi osie, what does your deck look like now? How does this deck stack up nowadays to say a high power casual group? I haven't touched this deck since around 2015 with a gobin focused build, and I'm thinking of updating it.

I have yet to pick up the Commander Legends cards. Flamekin Herald is exciting.

I don't get to play very often any more; I'd love to have more opportunities to play via webcam...

Current Decklist:



Need to get Rings of Brighthearth back in the deck for realsies just because it's SO good. Also, want to increase my creature count again, by 1-2 slots.

Planning to pick up Flamekin Herald and probably Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith, along with Tome of Legends and Mox Opal.

Probably cutting Field of the Dead for a Snow-Covered Mountain.

On the shortlist to consider cutting:



Feldon always feels a little slow for me. Gadrak is not as exciting as I hoped. Relic is less necessary with Scavenger Grounds in the deck. Mind Stone is the least likely of these to disappear, but is a consideration I've had in the past. Gauntlet of Power just feels not very helpful when it comes up given the usefulness of the other two nowadays. Flameshadow Conjuring is very win-more in my experience with it.

I've had a bit of mana irregularity from the last games I remember, so I may ponder some fixes for that, particularly involving damage or draw.

So far the one Secret Lair I was excited enough by to get was the tattoo set, but Foglios? My wallet just screamed.

Quote from osieorb18 »

While I'm here...

Dropped by to say my thanks to you osie! I've been a long time lurker on here, for my 'pet-deck' and the periodic review of new series.
I can relate to what you are feeling with regards to the game as it is now opposed to what it once was.

Thanks for all your work with the site and this primer in particular. It is really the best send-off for new Norin-players that I know off.
It always surprises my how competitive this deck can be, if it all goes to plan (never lost a match with Norin in play and Confusion in the Ranks resolved). Last week I played a game with a new player to commander, I thought it would be nice not to get a cEDH deck so I opted for Norin instead. And I kept a classic Staxx opening hand with t2 Tangle Wire + Welder, to be followed with T5/6 Smokestack while Norin + Purph kept a certain ending for opponents in sight...Maybe not my finest moment in terms of getting a new player 'on board'...

But this deck to me embodies everything I like about MtG, it's a solid deck that is just an unpredictable adventure every time you play it.

Quote from osieorb18 »

While I'm here...

This is probably one of the last times I'm posting here. I've been growing away from the game and don't play very often, as I've mentioned in the past. My experience on this site has had ups and downs.

(...)

Ending on one of my favourite Doctor Who quotes feels fitting:

"We all change, when you think about it, we're all different people; all through our lives, and that's okay, that's good, you've gotta keep moving, so long as you remember all the people that you used to be. I will not forget one line of this, not one day, I swear. I will always remember..."

Matt Smith, The Time of the Doctor

Darnit, Osie, I hate to see you go. Like Lyonhaert and you are saying, Norin is my only remaining link to mtgsalvation, and the thread has been dying for a while now. Personally I have never been one of the most active contributors, but I've been here for years and have enjoyed giving my few cents every once and a while. Currently, I really have to remind myself to visit every now and then and I'm not even here on a weekly basis now. With your departure, I feel like Norin is vanishing even more - no pun intended. I hope you'll find the joy in Magic back somehow, someday. For me, it's still a break from reality, even with all it's ups and downs. All the best, and I hope to find a post from you ocasionally.

Not sure if I should comment on this since I'm fairly new here, and likely considered as more of a MC guy by most, but I consider this my new mafia home tbh.

I agree with what Osie has to say about MU personally, I came to this site and started playing here, because I heard good things about it off a couple of my friends mainly Wisp, Osie Togs and Proph. I loved it here pretty much straight away because you have that small close community thing, that I personally love. MC/MS as we used to be called had that a lot more back in the day so playing here made me feel nolgastic I guess.

I don't get that from MU which is why I can't play there about Champ and team events. This is nothing on the people from there because a lot are great in my exp. I just find MU a little bit too big, and lacking in heart, it felt more like a job/chore playing there because it feels like a business at times and too imposing. It does not feel like a community at all, and that is something which is important for me when it comes to mafia, I enjoy the games for many reasons, but I also enjoy it because it led to me making a lot of friends and a lot of other good times be it *****ing in spec chat or just chatting in general.

So I selfishly would like you to choose MC for those reasons because based off what some of you have said that is why you enjoy mafia also, I can't gurantee it will be great, I'm still staff there and used to be leader before Osie took over and build it back up to what it is today. My work lately there has being slacking for multiple reasons, doing a merge though would likely give me new energy to try and make it better again though since I think you all would make it more like the place that I spend perhaps the best 3 years of my life. Osie has already done a way better job selling it then me though, I never know the right to say lol.

Like I said though I have no real right to say anything this is your home, and you all build it up, so you should all make the choice that is right for you. I just wanted to give me piece feel free to ignore it.

/in

Returning player here under a new username.

I am sorry for taking so long to post this, I had intended to read the all the game posts I missed, and the chats, so that I could give some constructive feedback, but a week later and I still haven’t had a chance, and I didn’t want to delay any longer.

Thank you Grapefruit for running the game. The flavor and roles were awesome! I think the balance was ok, it seams scum-sided in retrospect, but if town had lynched mafia early, and mafia had targeted players with too much vitality to kill, perhaps the game would have appeared town sided. I do think that you overestimated the value of neighbor chat for town, more so because wasn’t skill chats one way only? I only had skill with Bur who could have a two way chat. I think the chat mechanics and cost were fine, just that they weren’t of much real value to town. On my home site we had third-party roles in most of our games, so I generally like them.

Thanks to everyone for making me feel welcome on this site, especially Osie for inviting me and Silvercrys who was the first to welcome me, and to my awesome scum partners. My dog sends a special shout out to Sloth and Chandler, his new buddies.. I like this community and would like to play again with you.

Regardless of what the secret lair is or what its for, its still a secret lair at the end of the day and that will always be scummy to me.

Can we just go back to hating Secret Lairs and not try to analyze this? We all knew this was coming, just like I'm sure a LGBTQ one will come this year as well, this is not a surprise. I have no problem with them trying to do this, but I will continue to hate Secret Lairs.

So on the actual game. I actually think most people played okay. There just was so little coordination or teamwork. We kept remarking in the dead chat how collectively the town basically had the right PoE but there was no agreement and the fall back options were always town. Despite having strong town reads throughout the game (Tammy, KJ, Bur) there just never was a town block that was working together and that more than anything I think sunk the town.

I think the entire scum team played pretty well. Boom came into a slot that looked doomed and took it to the end game. Plus really helped revitalize the energy. Bessie was a massive moral boost in the scum chat and her wonderful walls garnered town reads for a long time. Tubba was just a survivor and fought through everything and managed to surive till day 5 despite looking like he was dead to rights on day 2. But I have to give Sloth my scum team MVP award. He dragged the team along through the pre replacement disaster when it looked like town could sweep the game and once he had reinforcements kept the effort and energy up and made it the end game with Boom. They all deserve a lot of credit and it was a really fun team to watch after we got through the replacements.

Wisp also deserves some credit. He won as a third party despite out himself early which isn't an easy thing to do. And he did all of this despite hating third parties in general. I said some unkind things in the early dead chat because I loved my mental image of the role too much and considering his putting to be almost playing against his win con but it wasn't, he won, and managed to never be under much serious pressure.

On the town side there were some crazy swings. The first was Iso bonding to Az as soon as the day start. Tying your vitality battery to the other high vitality role was just bad. Another major one was Wisp draining Cuth and delaying the Vig shot. The craziest swing though was obviously Night 4. So setting the scene there were 10 alive (6s4w) and Cuth had a vig shot he was itching to use. Scum could win that night if Cuth missed his vig shot (or it didn't kill Sloth). They decided to go for the fancy play and to try and win on the spot rather than blocking Cuth with the RB and going into a 9 person Condemn or Lose. And for a second I thought it paid off because Bessie had been doc'd by Tammy to protect her from Cuth's shot, but I'd forgotten the scum team blocked Tammy on top of shooting her.

Anyway I thought the game was a very enjoyable read with several swings in momentum. I hope you all enjoyed it! Thank you so much for playing and thanks again to Osie and DV for helping me get the game ready!

That double execute... Like whyyyyyy