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  • posted a message on The Tiniest Hunt - day 1
    Quote from Azrael »
    Plus town to Miami and fulcrum for the walls of text, giving us the tools to read them. Keeping an eye on terraine, if she replied to my question, I missed that.


    Umami?

    Hi Azrael! How's it going?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on The Tiniest Hunt - day 1
    Quote from fulcrum »
    Quote from Slothful »
    Quote from Slothful »
    Tubba
    Azrael

    Umami
    Fulcrum
    Osi
    Terraine
    I think Osie is actually climbing up slightly based on further reading.

    In the (fairly unlikely) event I'm not townreading anyone incorrectly, that would just leave Fonti/Ter as the scumteam.

    Lolwhat.

    I will forgive you for this trespass, for your mind is old and has turned to dust.


    That's not very nice. I don't agree with Sloth's reads, but I don't think that this is really fair.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on The Tiniest Hunt - day 1
    Oh yeah, this is a micro. I can start to Tom-solve.

    If there's a discontinuity between this post and previous thoughts it's probably nothing because it comes from a different thought process.

    I should probably write down my reasoning as I go instead of doing it all in my head and then going back and having to do it all again...

    Oh well!

    Unsorted Team POE:

    Azrael-Fulcrum
    Azrael-Sloth
    Azrael-Ter
    Azrael-Tubba
    Azrael-Umami
    Fulcrum-Sloth
    Fulcrum-Ter
    Fulcrum-Tubba
    Fulcrum-Umami
    Sloth-Ter
    Sloth-Tubba
    Sloth-Umami
    Ter-Tubba
    Ter-Umami
    Tubba-Umami




    Okay, now let's sort. I'll go through ISOs in order of most posts to least posts (at the time of initially starting to write this post).




    Umami's ISO:

    Umami's commentary on Sloth and Tubba seems to be an outsider point of view with their pointing out of the sorta mentoring that Sloth was doing. Umami's reactions to fulcrum does not feel like handling of a scumbuddy. The aggression seems real. Umami's read on Sloth does not feel like handling of a scumbuddy. Wary, but not knowing. Umami's read on Azrael feels very involved for early game despite Umami expressing a dislike for early game reads. I also don't believe that's on a scumbuddy.

    Umami's mechanics discussion with TerRaine feels like it would be done in scumchat if they were buddies. Tentatively not scumbuddies.

    Umami has zero interaction towards Tubba outside of the Sloth mentor comment. I'm leaving that team in the POE, but low because I think Umami is probably just town.

    Umami in general seems to be actively sorting people. I like their handling of fulcrum in particular. It feels quite genuine. I can't quite rule out enough teams to fully be comfortable with calling Umami a top!town read, but I think that I can comfortably say I soft townread here.

    Teams Left:

    Azrael-Fulcrum
    Azrael-Sloth
    Azrael-Ter
    Azrael-Tubba
    Fulcrum-Sloth
    Fulcrum-Ter
    Fulcrum-Tubba
    Sloth-Ter
    Sloth-Tubba
    Ter-Tubba
    Tubba-Umami

    Meh:

    Ter-Umami




    Sloth's ISO.

    My last game with Sloth was a semi-recent game in which he was scum and I was town. Sloth can post quite well as either alignment.

    When I first read Sloth and TerRaine, I was like "There's no way that both of these people are town." Then I reconsidered given that I know they are close friends. I don't think I can separate that element from their Page 1 interactions, unfortunately, so I don't get a lot out of them, but that visceral "At least one of these players may be faking this" is still lingering.

    Sloth's handling of Tubba started out pinging me as being too controlled. I was particularly paranoid of Sloth due to posts like #26. But I think that it goes a little too far to be scum theater. I can't entirely rule out that team on principle, but I sorta believe that there's a little bit too much detail and substance to their interactions to be a likely team.

    Sloth's handling of Azrael feels like two people who haven't interacted in a scumchat yet. Particularly #37 and somewhat #43. The focus on my vote on Azrael is a little concerning to me, but it's not an alarm bell yet. There's no way #133 is a bus, though. Striking this one off the list.

    #77, #132, and the Tubba interactions about Ter are a good look for Sloth as trying to sort Ter. The scumread feels legitimate. In particular there's not a macro-micro contradiction with how he seems to be thinking about Ter this game.

    The way Sloth is questioning Umami feels like Town who thinks they might be on to something. It's definitely not how I would expect him to handle her if they were buddies.

    If Sloth and fulcrum are buddies, I feel like it's better for Sloth to let fulcrum do her thing rather than ask what the use is in #73. Poking fulcrum to contribute in #76 feels mostly NAI, but #133 is a lot of discussion that doesn't feel like a powerwolf. Unless Sloth's powerwolf game is just that strong. *shudders* I probably shouldn't rule this team out entirely but it's definitely meh.

    Sloth feels like he's going through the thread person by person and trying to directly place each one by interacting with them. It's not necessarily my way of playing the game, but it's refreshingly active and I think it's a good look for him. Sloth feels independently townie. And he's sexy.

    Hard townread. Guess What I'm Thinkin'

    Teams Left:

    Azrael-Fulcrum
    Azrael-Ter
    Azrael-Tubba
    Fulcrum-Ter
    Fulcrum-Tubba
    Ter-Tubba
    Tubba-Umami

    Meh:

    Fulcrum-Sloth
    Sloth-Tubba
    Ter-Umami




    Fulcrum's ISO

    Fulcrum's Azrael vote pinged me almost instantly as feeling a little forced for RVS. Fulcrum's interactions with Azrael were short-lived, but #82 is the interesting post here. If anything, it kinda feels like it goes in with Fulcrum talking about Azrael and then she just drops any thoughts about Azrael jarringly. I can't rule out that team as of #143. Okay, #146 gets there for me. That's legit.

    Fulcrum is rather playful with both Sloth and Umami, as can be expected due to higher familiarity. Fulcrum seems to tunnel in a bit on Umami before determining a top!town read. This is a very good look for fulcrum individually, but it does make it harder to eliminate some other fulcrum team worlds due to lowered interaction with others. I think that fulcrum's handling of TerRaine can push that pair into meh, but even then, that's a bit of a stretch.

    I need more from Fulcrum on Ter and Tubba to really eliminate those teams, but I'm willing to wait for it; I think Fulcrum has enough town equity here to deserve that concession, particularly after giving her read on Azrael.

    Townlean.

    Teams Left:

    Azrael-Ter
    Azrael-Tubba
    Ter-Tubba
    Tubba-Umami

    Meh:

    Fulcrum-Sloth
    Fulcrum-Ter
    Fulcrum-Tubba
    Sloth-Tubba
    Ter-Umami




    I was going to ISO TerRaine at this point but I actually want to switch TerRaine and Tubba, since I think it's more interesting.

    Tubba's ISO

    I sorta talked about this already, but I figured I would go into detail again for perspective.

    I had read Tubba closely in their first two games on this site. They were very uncoordinated and, if I remember correctly, substituted in a degree of trolly flippancy to make up for their lack of confidence in their reads. (I might be completely on the wrong tack, here, and if I am, I'm sorry to Tubba.)

    It's been a while since those games though, and I remember seeing that Tubba had gotten much better.

    #30 is the first post where Tubba seems to be actively thinking about the game. (Not a mark against him, just saying.) I sorta think between #30 and #53, I can rule out the Sloth-Tubba team, as those posts don't really feel coached.

    Tubba needs to post more content. There's no interaction towards Azrael, Fulcrum, or Umami, and TerRaine-directed interactions are open to a bucketload of wine. I like Tubba's #124, but I can't rule out that it could be a pocket attempt.

    Null because of lack of content.

    Teams Left:

    Azrael-Ter
    Azrael-Tubba
    Ter-Tubba
    Tubba-Umami

    Meh:

    Fulcrum-Sloth
    Fulcrum-Ter
    Fulcrum-Tubba
    Ter-Umami




    TerRaine ISO

    Let it not be said that I don't try to draw blood from a stone. My initial read on TerRaine was very much trying to read into the interactions with Sloth and I think that muddied the waters on its strength.

    I'm worried that Ter is focused very specifically. Odd defense of Sloth in #36, lots of time spent on my read of her, more specific defense of Umami in #69 as a lurker, but then she turns around and is aggressive towards Umami... And oh god so much fluff! I like fluff sometimes but there is a distinct lack of content here. I'm not seeing much of anything in the way of intent to sort outside of her interactions with me, which feel forced and potentially the start of trying to setup a mislynch.

    Zero interaction with Tubba. Essentially zero interaction with Fulcrum. Potentially but not tellingly TMI on a Sloth/Azrael dichotomy in #36, one way or another, but I'm not convinced yet.

    The setup discussion with Umami is awkward for me. On the one hand, I feel like it's likely a wolf!Ter handling a town!Umami. On the other hand, I could also see it being some pretty good theatre. I don't know... For now, I think I'll leave this at meh.

    But all in all, this player is scummy. I don't know Ter as well as other players in this game do, but my guess (no offense to Ter) is that Azrael is the more valuable player to keep around in case Azrael is town.

    Scumread.

    Teams Left:

    Azrael-Ter
    Azrael-Tubba
    Ter-Tubba
    Tubba-Umami

    Meh:

    Fulcrum-Sloth
    Fulcrum-Ter
    Fulcrum-Tubba
    Ter-Umami




    Azrael's ISO

    Oh, Azrael. How I missed you. I might not have played in this game were it not for your presence. And yet, where is your presence! Where are the Azraels of yesteryear?

    Interlude:

    Sloth, n'enquerez de sepmaine
    Où ils sont, ne de cest an,
    Qu'à ce refrain ne vous remaine:
    Mais, où sont les Azraels d'antan!


    (Translation to avoid potential moderation)

    Sloth, do not ask me in the whole week
    Where they are, neither in this whole year.
    Lest I bring you back to this refrain:
    Oh, where are the Azraels of yesteryear?!

    I think I've asked this question before and been told that running a legal firm is hard work.

    Anyways...

    Azrael's RVS vote on Sloth pinged me as potentially being theatre, but I'm comfortable in thinking that I've ruled that out. His following post, #29, feels bad. It very much is a feeling of asking everyone else to do the work for him. And a bit of that tongue-in-cheek "Yeah, I'm totally scum, guys" sarcastic tone that I expect from classic MtGS players, mostly.

    Mild ping of #33 being an over-reaction.

    #34 is another request for help with meta.

    #39, particularly with the repeated requests for help with meta, just feels very disengaged.

    #41 is a post that could go either way on theatre or not. It's a little frustrating since it sorta makes me want to push the Azrael-Ter team down to a meh, whereas in my read-through leading up to making this post, I had that as the top team potential. I don't know... For now I think I will leave it where it is and see more later.

    I think that while I find Azrael scummy, I also definitely need to see more to cement a read here.

    Scumlean.

    Teams Left:

    Azrael-Ter - Lots of potential here.
    Azrael-Tubba - Some potential here.
    Ter-Tubba - Lots of potential here.

    Tubba-Umami - Ehh.

    Meh:

    Fulcrum-Sloth - Tinfoil.
    Fulcrum-Ter - Tinfoil.
    Fulcrum-Tubba - Can't rule out yet.
    Ter-Umami - Tinfoil.




    Player PoE:

    TerRaine>Azrael>Tubba>>>>>>Fulcrum>>Umami>>>Sloth




    Vote: TerRaine
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on The Tiniest Hunt - day 1
    Quote from Slothful »
    ...wait no I got it right the first time. ...damnit, English is also hard.
    I mean that it's very possible I'mm townreading at least one scum, but if I'm not... you get it.
    Shut up.


    Why are you townreading Azrael? As the player probably most familiar with Azrael, I haven't gotten there on him in my first 2-3 ISOs. I'm about to ISO again for the purpose of the wallpost, but I'm just puzzling as to how you have him as your second towniest player.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on The Tiniest Hunt - day 1
    Quote from Slothful »
    Quote from osieorb18 »
    D1 Solve in Micro is too common to NL, IMO. Also I'm pretty sure that we don't really have enough phases usually, even with the two extra life roles in this setup.
    Sorry, not sure what this means?


    I expect that I can have a game-winningly accurate 3 person PoE by the end of D1.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on The Tiniest Hunt - day 1
    @Fulcrum: What do you think about Tubba?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on The Tiniest Hunt - day 1
    Quote from fulcrum »
    Quote from Slothful »
    Not gonna comment on the claims conversation. I see some issues but since no one is expressing interest in doing so, not really something that needs to be talked about more than necessary.

    I'm trying to figure out if Umami on Fonti is just a repeat of what she was doing in Mountainous - reasons seem largely the same - or if she has a legitimate point this time.
    I do notice Fonti is focusing on set-up discussion and not engaging other players enough. /prods Font with a stick be more social.

    Hottake: NL D1 to confirm Judge? We decide who the judge should hit before Day end.
    Helps to figure out alignment
    Less risk on D1 than any other day.
    Thoughts?

    *****, none of you are ever around when I'm here. This is your fault.


    Fonti! Perfect timing. Could you talk to me about your current thoughts on Azrael? It felt like you had at least a lean on him in #82, but then you didn't really go anywhere with it.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on The Tiniest Hunt - day 1
    Quote from Slothful »
    Quote from osieorb18 »
    Quote from Slothful »
    Man I can already tell that font as scum here with only one partner is going to be a nightmare.


    Is fonti one of your lowest reads?
    Nah, she's deep null/undecided.


    For that matter, could you give me a rough ordered list for the players? I have a few in particular for whom I'm wondering about your read positioning based on your posts, but I'll talk about that later.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on The Tiniest Hunt - day 1
    Quote from Slothful »
    Hottake: NL D1 to confirm Judge? We decide who the judge should hit before Day end.


    D1 Solve in Micro is too common to NL, IMO. Also I'm pretty sure that we don't really have enough phases usually, even with the two extra life roles in this setup.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on The Tiniest Hunt - day 1
    Quote from Slothful »
    Man I can already tell that font as scum here with only one partner is going to be a nightmare.


    Is fonti one of your lowest reads?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on The Tiniest Hunt - day 1
    Quote from Slothful »
    Quote from osieorb18 »
    Quote from fulcrum »
    Osie, I'd like your thoughts on Azrael, Umami and I as well. Feel free to wait until Tubba answers you.

    Could you quote some posts from Ter that felt pure at the time you read them, even if they don't anymore?


    #8, #28, #36 were what I had read and liked. It wasn't much to go on, though.

    I have an incoming wallpost where I sorta dropped everything, focused on teambuilding, and talked about thoughts from a much more in depth mass-ISO-dive. I'll probably be able to post that this evening if not earlier. I think I have maybe a 5-team POE, and one of those teams has much less going against it than any of the others.
    Yeah if these are the posts you're referring to, I'm not picking up pure...I'm not even sure what placed her above tubba and I.
    I will await the wallpost.


    It definitely had to do with the two of you being particularly friendly, to a degree. I'm a sucker for nice people.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on The Tiniest Hunt - day 1
    Quote from Slothful »
    Quote from osieorb18 »
    I was going to move my vote to Fulcrum/Umami but after catching up I'm happy leaving it on Azrael.
    [...]
    @Sloth: See this post.
    Hah. That is pretty cool, ngl.
    Still, doesn't answer my question - or it does of sorts: You can say the vote there was part of the joke/post you link to here at the time, but your statements since have made it clear that at one point the vote became legitimate.
    I want to know why - it doesn't have to be a particularly strong case, but there are obviously specific reasons/quotes. So?


    My core reason for the vote becoming more serious is that Azrael feels particularly unengaged compared to my past experience with him as usually a town leader or at least an active voice. He explicitly seems to ask others to do his work for him.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on The Tiniest Hunt - day 1
    Quote from fulcrum »
    Osie, I'd like your thoughts on Azrael, Umami and I as well. Feel free to wait until Tubba answers you.

    Could you quote some posts from Ter that felt pure at the time you read them, even if they don't anymore?


    #8, #28, #36 were what I had read and liked. It wasn't much to go on, though.

    I have an incoming wallpost where I sorta dropped everything, focused on teambuilding, and talked about thoughts from a much more in depth mass-ISO-dive. I'll probably be able to post that this evening if not earlier. I think I have maybe a 5-team POE, and one of those teams has much less going against it than any of the others.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on The Tiniest Hunt - day 1
    @Tubba:

    Can you talk to me about your thoughts on Azrael, Fulcrum, and Umami, please?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on The Tiniest Hunt - day 1
    Quote from Tubba Fett »
    Quote from osieorb18 »
    Quote from TerRaine »
    Quote from osieorb18 »

    Ter has been hovering around null for me.


    I was at the top of your early town reads and now I'm null after questioning your reasons? What about my questioning felt anti town to you?


    Early townleans.

    None of your reason-questioning has felt outside the realm of easy questions for the sake of pushing a mislynch.

    The main reason for the high townlean was a feeling of a pure lack of malice. But later on, I realized I sorta felt a lack of anything, and then there was the questioning which felt easy.

    I hate to drag this up, maybe you don’t have much else to say about it? What felt “pure” about Terrence’s posts? Could you point to an example? It doesn’t gel with my feelings about their posts, in that they seemed wooden and while fake isn’t the word, but neither is “pure” if you follow me.


    It's literally stated in the post you quoted. There was a seeming lack of malicious intent. But I've reconsidered due to a seeming lack of any intent whatsoever.
    Posted in: Mafia
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