MTG Salvation

Quote from Rhand »

And Eco for trashing my original setup and help with tweaking the game to what it was now.

Just Eco?

Also

Quote from Silvercrys3467 »

Quote from Azrael »

Wait, the site actually moved? I thought they pulled a just kidding on that and left everything in place. What's the story?

Yeah all the admins and most of the mods left to set up a new site when the site almost closed; Shadow's in charge of admin stuff now iirc (though many of their accounts still have permissions it looks like?)

bobthefunny is another admin actually around. Not sure how many others are actually a thing.

Quote from Azrael »

Wait, the site actually moved? I thought they pulled a just kidding on that and left everything in place. What's the story?

Almost the entire staff and at least about half the userbase switched to another site.

Quote from Highroller »

Quote from Vaimes »

Commuter? Not Voyeur?

I think that was an error. My role Discord message said Voyeur.

Yeah, Rhand's documentation had a very old version of the roles or something.

Sir Chris (2) - Prophylaxis, Ampharos

Not Voting (6): Axelrod, Grapefruit21, Highroller, Silvercrys3467, Sir Chris, Vaimes

With 8 players, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline is Thursday, October 8th, 7pm GMT+1

For anyone who didn't want to sift through the wall, the MTGSalvation Debate section replacement Discord (established around when the section closed) can be found here:

The Once and Future Debate

Quote from Banned1 »

I'm going to direct this one at bob, for obvious reasons (apart from the fact that this is his thread):

Is there a way that we can connect or converse more directly with the site owners? I would like to know why your site admins seem to think it's okay to casually use the word 'lynch' in the current political climate. See this post: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/817898-voldemorts-throne-room-mafia-game-over-town-win?comment=4901

Given that lynch is a word with very heavy racial overtones, and that we're currently suffering from societal issues around extrajudicial killings, it doesn't strike me that this is acceptable discourse. Perhaps there is some context that I'm unaware of; it doesn't matter. This was discovered by way of a site admin's profile and viewing their most recent posts, and if there's something buried in that thread to explain it, I don't see how any casual observer would bother to sift through ~5,000 posts for an explanation. I wouldn't hesitate to report a random poster for using such language, I certainly don't see how the site owners can lay claim to promoting a 'neutral' atmosphere here at MTGS when even their own admins exercise poor judgment in conversation.

Given the discourse that has already transpired in this very thread (for whatever that's worth), it would only serve to validate the impression that MTGS has an alt-right bias if shadowlancerx were allowed to maintain their current level of power and authority. I respectfully urge that the wolf be removed from the sheep. Thank you.

Is this Flow speaking again trying to repeat what happened on MU?

The forum mafia community on MtGSalvation (and elsewhere) has addressed the use of the word "lynch" and taken steps to move away from it. This has become the standard across major forum mafia communities, with people using "execute", "eliminate", "kill", or "yeet", among others. There is not an active censorship of the word "lynch" for most communities because it would reap more negative results than positive. Not from people not being willing to change, but from change taking time.

Having been in an admin position in another forum mafia community for about two years now, we also brought up the change. And the same discussion happened in every other forum mafia community I've seen:

• Censorship is not a policy to maintain and opens up a very different can of worms.
• The community is diverse; there are non-US-citizens for whom censorship of the word "lynch" is Americans forcing their own problems on the rest of the community.
• It is possible to encourage use of other words and doing so will be more effective over time to peacefully ensure stepping away from the word "lynch" than censorship.

A small few forum mafia communities have still chosen to censor the word, but the more common forum mafia community consensus is one of encouraging other words instead of one of punishing people for using the word.

Additionally, while Shadowlancerx is a member of the MTGSalvation forum mafia community, he does not uniquely represent it. It is an active part of the site which as of most recent discussion, even prior to Shadowlancerx becoming an admin, there were no plans to remove from the site, despite past MTGSalvation admin history of hating on, bullying, and removing non-Magic sections and members involved in said sections. Unlike other admins, Shadow and bob are good people, not emblematic of the rampant bullying of site users, disgusting back-doors gossip, and admin-maintained drama for the sake of drama which has been the normal from MtGSalvation site admins for years. MTGSalvation as a site had become a dead whale since long before the site threatened to close. The previous group of admins realized this and left to make their own site, cutting off anyone who didn't want to switch over as unworthy. Leaving behind a skeleton crew to run things and knowing that the support of the Commander RC and similar sorts of little odds and ends would keep their site afloat rather than what was left of MTGSalvation. Shadowlancerx was asked to step up as a staff member who was prominent in one of the only groups still active on the site, the forum mafia community.

The MtGSalvation forum mafia community has already had offers from other forum mafia communities to join them elsewhere. I was one of several making that offer. The MTGSalvation forum mafia community, while it has had more history than the site itself, has always been a positive contribution even at its lowest moments.

In addition to running a mafia community, like mikeyG, I also used to moderate the Debate section here. There is no impression that MTGSalvation has an alt-right bias. There never has been. MtGSalvation has always been accused of being a liberal echo-chamber.

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Quote from bobthefunny »

This thread is not a replacement for the (closed) debate forum.

While this thread is not a replacement, a group of prominent MtGS Debate veterans have had a Discord replacement for a while now. Said Discord can be found here for any who are interested:

The Once and Future Debate

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Quote from bobthefunny »

5. You know what else would affect revenue? Becoming a Magic site that doesn't discuss Magic.

If a person arrives at this site from google, wanting to look up an interaction, or discuss some new cards - but instead they see a bunch of people yelling at each other about entirely unrelated things? Well suddenly that makes this seem like a terrible site to come to for the answers to Magic related questions.

===

I joined this site to discuss Magic. I joined it to discuss Commander. I joined the moderator team to help improve the goals of facilitating that kind of discussion. For the last THREE MONTHS, 95% of my interaction and duties on this site have been entirely non-magic related. I'm frankly getting sick and tired of this.

It's almost like when you shut down the non-Magic sections of a site and move the Magic discussion to another site which is even more draconian about non-Magic discussion than MTGSalvation was because it is representative of the people who run it, you get non-Magic discussion in other sections of the first site... Not sure why this would be a surprise.

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Quote from bobthefunny »

We do not have the staff to moderate a forum designated to this kind of discussion. We used to have a forum dedicated to this type of discussion, we did not have the staff then, and the forum devolved into 4chan lite. I have no desire to moderate a 4chan lite, nor do I believe it is feasible, nor appropriate for this site. Perhaps one day we will have staff that is interested in bringing this back, and willing to moderate it, and perhaps even make it appropriate for the site. Currently, none of those are true. I will die on this hill.

Nah... You're confusing Debate with the Gutter because that's the propaganda that was pounded into all of our heads. It was never the same thing.

Looking at the retired forum, there are 11 threads that needed to be deleted in the first page alone, and another 9 on the second page. That's not healthy. There are also a significant amount of red text, and banned members in the responses.

Yeah, it was over-moderated as a policy, particularly by admins and a couple of overbearing global moderators, who like the admins, went out of their way to maintain high levels of drama throughout their dealings.

I am well aware that there were several mods that held the forum in fond memory, however there was solid reason to shut it down at the time. Perhaps it could return one day, but today is definitely not the time.

The solid reason to shut it down at the time was that both of the moderators involved (myself and Blinking Spirit) had other commitments. I had school which was taking up more and more of my time, and Blinking Spirit had their own personal concerns. These were not the primary reason it was shut down, though. They weren't even the spark. The admins at the time had openly made clear for years that they wanted to shut down as many non-Magic sections as they could. It was convenient. A section shutdown had been on the table for months.

You can tell the behaviour in the section wasn't really the problem because the Debate regulars now participate in our own Discord, which necessitates a much lower level of moderation than the MtGS Debate section ever had.

Kip: What has 4 legs but cannot move?
Chip: No idea
Kip: It’s turtle! He’s lying on his back!
Chip: His legs are indeed not moving.

ZeDorkSlipeur has died. They were Turtle, Town Vanilla

Night 1 starts now. Night actions are due by 1 PM EST (7 PM Rhand time) on Tuesday, September 22nd, and Day 2 will start about 1 hour after that.

DO NOT TALK IN THE THREAD DURING THE NIGHT PHASE UNLESS YOUR ROLE STATES OTHERWISE.

I want a daughter who is as pale as a vampire, has lips as red as a vampire, and has hair as dark as night.

Through dangers untold and hardships unnumbered I have fought my way here to the castle beyond the Goblin City to take back the child you have stolen, for my will is as strong as yours and my kingdom as great. You have no power over me!

- Totally a Snow White Quote

Deadline is today @ 7 PM EST; 2 hours from this post.

With 12 players, it takes 7 to eliminate.

Votecount 1.7

Anyone following sports? I heard that if the Wild matches up against the Magic in the semi's, the Raiders will have a chance to beat the A's and Cristiano Ronaldo will probably score against Serena Williams for a great final.

CropCircles42 (2): ZeDorkSlipeur, Prophylaxis
ZeDorkSlipeur (2): Highroller, Silvercrys3467
Grapefruit21 (1): cayvie
Jackrito (1): Grapefruit21
Prophylaxis (1): xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1): Vaimes

Not voting: Ampharos, Axelrod, CropCircles42, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry

This votecount was created by sheer Force of Will. Hardcast for 3UU.

Day 1 Deadline is September 19, 7:00 AM GMT+1

Votecount 1.4 (unchanged)

ZeDorkSlipeur (3): Rodemy, CropCircles42, Highroller
Prophylaxis (2): Dkingsland967, Silvercrys3467
CropCircles42 (2): ZeDorkSlipeur, Prophylaxis
dkingsland (1): Grapefruit21
Axelrod (1): Vaimes
Highroller (1): Jackrito

Not voting: Axelrod, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry

Zed or KSL-NewsRadio IP Europe

Quote from Axelrod »

Well, if this is going to be the last game ever played here, maybe I should play

/in

Quote from Slothful »

whoa wait what mtgs is closing what.

It may just be a matter of switching locations.