Rhand has acted more weird. ...That's all that's really interesting to me.
I check this thread every so often, I'm like, "Huh, pain dry" and then I do something else. It's not even intentional.
At a certain point Nyxu, there's an imperative to exercise your own ability to determine events around you. Suspended animation is only helpful for so long.
Need a flip for the conversation to advance somewhere that's actually interesting.
---
NYXU: "Xyre, pk: if wg becomes unwilling to self hammer and the prospects are grim, would you hold adamant ?"
No, no lynching would be mathematically detrimental here.
RHAND: "In light of my doubt, the weird play of Nis and the scumread both WG and Nyxu have on Nis, I will unvote WG, vote Nis"
I can't think of a logical motivation for this either way, really.
KOSA: "Problem being, he just voted WG despite mentionting how unsure he was on him, without additional rationale. Therefore, I'll take the hammer off your hands, Nyxu, and hammer someone down for the first time in my yet short Mafia career."
You can literally taste the premeditated rehearsedness of this statement.
---
Woo, Rhand lynch and divisive hammer. Regardless of results, flip will at least generate interesting information finally.
W_G's posts give me a bad vibe, but he gives me a bad vibe by existing. A lot of the logic he posts is not...happy or fun, and it worries me.
At the same time, Rhand's explanation of "No I did something self destructive without thinking of the consequences" still seems unbelievable.
I tend to think that Nis is the scum partner to either, with Nyxu as very likely town given his tones/reactions and the earlier lynch. I'm willing to overlook Xyre right now and I don't think Kosa is going to ever post anything interesting. Going to have to "coin flip it" and go blindly with terrible odds.
I tend to get a town vibe from him and his "oddities' just being him as an eccentric player.
...How did you expect these reactions to be anything other then, "Hey you are plainly wrong" and incrimination of yourself? It's not like people criticizing you aren't justified for it.
(Bit of personal philosophy: this is why reaction trolling is generally terrible)
Are you trying to make your own lacking sound pro-town?
I don't really feel the need to intentionally make myself appear pro town, but I do feel somewhat self conscious about my performance in mafia games and how its a reflection on my level of skill. I actually felt some level of anxiety in my inability to pierce together something cohesive and insightful out of the dross.
Quote from Rhand »
But the second quote? What comes off as forced or insincere about that?
It is how WG is behaving and he admits it.
It's a bit of an unusual way to describe someone pushing a lynch heavily, almost like anxiety on the idea of pushing on Nis was my initial impression of it.
Re-reading it in context, I can see the alternative of criticizing the idea of a "chain lynch" mentality as plausible.
Quote from Rhand »
You're reading this wrong.
If I wanted Xyre dead because of that "analysis", I would've voted him.
You don't have to vote someone to set up a lynch. Singular votes in of themselves are generally irrelevant. You set up a train of conclusions in a logical pattern and then offered a conclusion - basically, I'm saying I think you requested permission to avoid accountability.
Quote from Rhand »
Think about this in scum shoes. Would scum!Rhand try to get someone lynched with such a bad reasoning while it would've been easy to lynch Nyxu or Nis?
The only goal was to get people to speak (and hopefully slip).
I'm not willing to rule out play error.
Quote from Rhand »
The only goal was to get people to speak (and hopefully slip).
Actually, this is sort of what I see what happened to you.
Quote from Rhand »
How do you see this as an implosion?
Shatters my suspension of disbelief that you might be town, essentially. I'll detail a bit more after you follow my request.
Fake WIFOM. Townies, knowing they're innocent, defend themselves first and foremost; scum, knowing the suspicion on them is valid, vacillate and find scapegoats. You've done the latter.
First time you express any suspicion of Nyxu. But suddenly he's the popular kid exploding and you are so sure.
My impression of you is that you're very good at this game and that you can distinguish wrong from scummy.
Your level of confidence all game and demeanor towards lynches definitely gives off a manipulator vibe.
Now you could focus on the guy who is playing poorly, or begin to think that perhaps unfriendly people are exploiting the mistakes of others because they're "wrong" and it's a low accountability move to push on people like Proph and Xyre.
Re-reading Xyre, I don't *find* this in his post.
---
To be honest, I am completely lost and don't really feel strongly about any of these lynches.
That's just where I am at and pausing to think more and going..."Duuuur" and making every wait for ideas that are not coming because of "writer's block" is just hurtful to the game, and I apologize.
Nyxu's fearmongering is not town - especially because, as I noted back on Day 1, we get one free no lynch. We haven't lost anything.
Perfect illustration of the point I'm trying to get at.
Nyxu makes the argument the town is hurting itself by no lynching.
Now, you could believe he secretly knows this and is trying to put one over us, hoping we won't figure it out.
Or you could believe that he sincerely thinks this true - there's a common understanding of "no lynch" as wasteful, wrong, a stigma.
See, for someone to make that argument, it's probable they're going to believe it. It stretches credibility to suggest that Nyxu intentionally knew it was bad and was trying to poison the town with his bad logic.
But that's what an accusation of fearmongering is, and pretty sensationalist when you break it down and think about it.
---
I had more to say about Xyre, but some of my initial observations about his behavior didn't hold up on further scrutiny. I need to re-examine a few of his conflicts. (Had a video project to do yesterday, but that's done, so I should be able to post a collection of thoughts on at least Xyre by the end of the night.)
W_G's non-response to current events combined with his reply to a large case against himself with, "Yep you're totally right, can't defend myself" is alarming. I'm surprised that this seems to interest or concern no one else.
KosaKosa needs to deliver content, beginning with the W_G case. It's not acceptable for him to be this big "void" that lurks in the background as a possible lurker confusion.
Quote from Rhand »
Pk, you seem to be having real suspicions.
Share them please?
KosaKosa and Nis for level of activity and timing of content, Xyre and W_G for their play among the game advancing Kill-Joy and Prophy cases with underwhelming reasoning. In the background are the elements of the game being too quiet and not enough positional changes or contested lynches.
Think the Nyxu discussion is polarizing enough to ultimately generate some information to add at least some clarity.
It also wasn't a very fun game, but those things happen.
Congrats to the scum. That's pretty much my thoughts.
---
XYRE: "Sorry. Very bored."
Yup.
Rhand has acted more weird. ...That's all that's really interesting to me.
I check this thread every so often, I'm like, "Huh, pain dry" and then I do something else. It's not even intentional.
At a certain point Nyxu, there's an imperative to exercise your own ability to determine events around you. Suspended animation is only helpful for so long.
Need a flip for the conversation to advance somewhere that's actually interesting.
---
NYXU: "Xyre, pk: if wg becomes unwilling to self hammer and the prospects are grim, would you hold adamant ?"
No, no lynching would be mathematically detrimental here.
RHAND: "In light of my doubt, the weird play of Nis and the scumread both WG and Nyxu have on Nis, I will unvote WG, vote Nis"
I can't think of a logical motivation for this either way, really.
KOSA: "Problem being, he just voted WG despite mentionting how unsure he was on him, without additional rationale. Therefore, I'll take the hammer off your hands, Nyxu, and hammer someone down for the first time in my yet short Mafia career."
You can literally taste the premeditated rehearsedness of this statement.
---
Woo, Rhand lynch and divisive hammer. Regardless of results, flip will at least generate interesting information finally.
---
W_G's posts give me a bad vibe, but he gives me a bad vibe by existing. A lot of the logic he posts is not...happy or fun, and it worries me.
At the same time, Rhand's explanation of "No I did something self destructive without thinking of the consequences" still seems unbelievable.
I tend to think that Nis is the scum partner to either, with Nyxu as very likely town given his tones/reactions and the earlier lynch. I'm willing to overlook Xyre right now and I don't think Kosa is going to ever post anything interesting. Going to have to "coin flip it" and go blindly with terrible odds.
I tend to get a town vibe from him and his "oddities' just being him as an eccentric player.
Also -we should, actually like, decide something.
A possible Xyre lynch?
What were you hoping would happen?
If you want to start a Day 1, yeah. Low consequences, high chance of reward, easier to "get away with."
Other than that, I'm not really a fan.
2. Ask for critique.
3. Get reactions.
...How did you expect these reactions to be anything other then, "Hey you are plainly wrong" and incrimination of yourself? It's not like people criticizing you aren't justified for it.
(Bit of personal philosophy: this is why reaction trolling is generally terrible)
It's a bit of an unusual way to describe someone pushing a lynch heavily, almost like anxiety on the idea of pushing on Nis was my initial impression of it.
Re-reading it in context, I can see the alternative of criticizing the idea of a "chain lynch" mentality as plausible.
You don't have to vote someone to set up a lynch. Singular votes in of themselves are generally irrelevant. You set up a train of conclusions in a logical pattern and then offered a conclusion - basically, I'm saying I think you requested permission to avoid accountability.
I'm not willing to rule out play error.
Actually, this is sort of what I see what happened to you.
Shatters my suspension of disbelief that you might be town, essentially. I'll detail a bit more after you follow my request.
I'm glad to see my inability to deliver and confusion has been the catalyst of some discussion.
"I hope Kosakosa finishes his case soon.
A WG lynch is looking better and better."
"WG talks about a Nis lynch as if it's already decided."
These come off as forced/insincere and not really in my mental projection of what your posts are "like" from this game.
"My "wagon" isn't a wagon Xyre. The only goal of that post was to spike conversation."
vs.
"That leaves for possible scumteams: WG and Xyre / Nis and Xyre.
Any flaws in my logic?
If not, we should lynch Xyre."
"Can I pls have permission for a free Xyre lynch?"
"I explained that post WG. It wasn't meant to draw the lynch to anyone.
Its purpose was to get reactions and that's what it did."
And that's basically a total implosion.
Vote: Rhand
Should have proofread that again before posting it.
My case against Xyre...it doesn't really hold up.
These are the posts I found suspicious or weird.
W_G
#15: While the odds are indeed in our favor (I count about 2:1), it certainly wouldn't be fun. Therefore I vote against this idea.
#29: I find it interesting that so many are passing over AE ending RVS.
So, AE, what's your reasoning?
__________________
Trying too hard.
#32 He says he found scum on this page, and is heavily implying kill-joy as being the scum.
That’s just AE.
MINDSLAYER/PK
#37 vote iso for apparently being stupid.
lol
#40 W_G
wheat grinder wagon kill-joy http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9335270&postcount=40
#49 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9336536&postcount=49
XYRE is smart
INFECTIOUS BALOTH
#63 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9337819&postcount=63
panicky, overly critical
W_G
#65
Confirmvote: kill-joy
1. "Hey guys I'm town" *throws arms around the town's shoulders*
2. We know there's two. But for you, there's only one out there.
Bull****.
#67 Xyre
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9338200&postcount=67
don’t see the jiters
#78
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9340261&postcount=78
me as evil due to posting history
STORYTELLER #80
I tend to be quiet when I first enter a game.
WG probably knows something about that.
odd w_g reference
#82 Storyteller
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9340655&postcount=82
confusing
---
KoolKoal fights with AE, AE dies, makes me look bad.
#153 Storyteller, vote k-j doesn’t like W_G
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9359348&postcount=153
NYXU #161
Also is anyone else tired of ae's suicidal plans? I almost want to hang him on principle
I am incredibly bored by the first 150 posts of discussion about Archmage’s plan and the discussion about Kill-Joy, it’s pretty damn tedious.
An eccentric man known for trolling to learn about people trolls people and the we get lots and lots of nonsense forever.
Xyre #207 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9378116&postcount=202
scumbuddy
Xyre #208
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9380576&postcount=208
Xyre #228
Fake WIFOM. Townies, knowing they're innocent, defend themselves first and foremost; scum, knowing the suspicion on them is valid, vacillate and find scapegoats. You've done the latter.
I don’t agree with this idea ata ll.
Nyxu #243
Xyre #262
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9405334&postcount=262
Back it up buddy.
#312 Storyteller, L-2
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9438570&postcount=312
#317 ****ty weird xyre post
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9438841&postcount=317
pbpa on storyteller - but waves off
IB #320 bland
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9439255&postcount=320
#321 STORYTELLER
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9439489&postcount=321
bit too selfaware
#329 Xyre on kosakosa
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9440980&postcount=329
#330 W_G seizing the moment
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9441017&postcount=330
#340 nyxu
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9446227&postcount=340
don’t fear the hammer
#354 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9456877&postcount=354
would have killed him for this post, k-j
bad k-j posting, dilutes relevance for hammer
Xyre #368 no lynch being good for town
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9459992&postcount=368
#369 Xyre
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9460035&postcount=369
Psychological and attention span costs.
#377 W_G hate the way the despondant way this is said
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9460498&postcount=377
#380 IB
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9460609&postcount=380
---------
D2
#388 IB
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9479117&postcount=388
Calculated terribleness.
#390 proph wtf?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9479156&postcount=390
ugh, no accountability rises
#391 IB
#394 IB
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9479182&postcount=394
little too smart
#396 IB vote storyteller
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9479194&postcount=396
#400 Nis
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9479253&postcount=400
too quiet
#408 Nis
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9479403&postcount=408
pipes up to poop on a universally derided position
#410 Xyre sees ib as i do
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9480121&postcount=410
#413 R_L
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9482406&postcount=413
#418 OMGUS accusing
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9486105&postcount=418
#423 W_G
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9487647&postcount=423
OMGUS is more about ego than scum
$440 proph does v_C
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9491746&postcount=440
#445 Xyre scummy for why?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9492205&postcount=445
#448 Koal proves prophy mangled vote counts wtf???
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9492494&postcount=448
#479 W_G
#480 Nis
Inertia to death.
#486 W_G lynch someone and get it over with
#487 KosaKosa no need to hurry
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9558225&postcount=487
#489 W_G
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9559210&postcount=489
#496 ISO IS ****ING R_L
#525 W_G bull**** theory
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9581657&postcount=525
#541 W_G on scumpartners
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9584812&postcount=545
#555
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9596040&postcount=555
#563 Nyrxu
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9596040&postcount=555
#577 Proph
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9603931&postcount=577
#582 Nyrxu
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9605606&postcount=582
#664 Kosakosa
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9645506&postcount=664
#670 Proph
Tom school of mafia
#686 Nyxu
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9661620&postcount=686
#722 W_G
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9681606&postcount=722
#735 Xyre
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9693842&postcount=735
#744 Nyxu Rhand ****
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9704248&postcount=744
and my "meh" case against Xyre
You come off as overly sure and overly aggressive in an attempt to solidify the perceived "strength" of your argument.
For example, #203 you accuse IB of being scum with Kill-Joy on post #202, on day one, in a game with two scum.
You pursue Prophy based upon No Lynch argumentation.
You call out Prophy for this post and then explain yourself here. (And here.)
Overattribution of scum desires.
Nyxu:
Deflection vote.
First time you express any suspicion of Nyxu. But suddenly he's the popular kid exploding and you are so sure.
My impression of you is that you're very good at this game and that you can distinguish wrong from scummy.
Your level of confidence all game and demeanor towards lynches definitely gives off a manipulator vibe.
Now you could focus on the guy who is playing poorly, or begin to think that perhaps unfriendly people are exploiting the mistakes of others because they're "wrong" and it's a low accountability move to push on people like Proph and Xyre.
Re-reading Xyre, I don't *find* this in his post.
---
To be honest, I am completely lost and don't really feel strongly about any of these lynches.
That's just where I am at and pausing to think more and going..."Duuuur" and making every wait for ideas that are not coming because of "writer's block" is just hurtful to the game, and I apologize.
Writing this up so I don't put it off like I did this time, reading facts about nutrition for hours. : V
Nyxu makes the argument the town is hurting itself by no lynching.
Now, you could believe he secretly knows this and is trying to put one over us, hoping we won't figure it out.
Or you could believe that he sincerely thinks this true - there's a common understanding of "no lynch" as wasteful, wrong, a stigma.
See, for someone to make that argument, it's probable they're going to believe it. It stretches credibility to suggest that Nyxu intentionally knew it was bad and was trying to poison the town with his bad logic.
But that's what an accusation of fearmongering is, and pretty sensationalist when you break it down and think about it.
---
I had more to say about Xyre, but some of my initial observations about his behavior didn't hold up on further scrutiny. I need to re-examine a few of his conflicts. (Had a video project to do yesterday, but that's done, so I should be able to post a collection of thoughts on at least Xyre by the end of the night.)
W_G's non-response to current events combined with his reply to a large case against himself with, "Yep you're totally right, can't defend myself" is alarming. I'm surprised that this seems to interest or concern no one else.
KosaKosa needs to deliver content, beginning with the W_G case. It's not acceptable for him to be this big "void" that lurks in the background as a possible lurker confusion.
KosaKosa and Nis for level of activity and timing of content, Xyre and W_G for their play among the game advancing Kill-Joy and Prophy cases with underwhelming reasoning. In the background are the elements of the game being too quiet and not enough positional changes or contested lynches.
Think the Nyxu discussion is polarizing enough to ultimately generate some information to add at least some clarity.