Long-term (i.e. Post-Rotation), what are you thoughts on Inkmoth Nexus?
Is this card played in Legacy as well?
And can this man-land possibly reach Mutavault price levels despite the recent reprintings?
Somewhat. It's either Inkmoth or Blinkmoth in affinity, but there's no way it's going to ever hit Mutavault and it's pretty niche anyways. $10 for the rest of its lifetime in Standard and $5-7 post rotation IMO.
Haha, Slivers EDH! That's actually hilarious because I know that both Matt and I have Sliver EDH decks. And now Psijet and formerly Icemanscion have them too?
Serra Ascendant is a good card in EDH and also a good way to make everyone at the table hate you.
I'm looking forward to Indy. I'm a little worried, though - apparently people were mugged for cards in the bathrooms at GP Baltimore. I'll just keep a really close eye on things.
I've gotten some absolutely awesome stuff lately, but I'm trying to wait to post it until it all comes in. Mail from Russia and Germany takes a while
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle OR other Zen land (Emeria?)
Glacial Chasm
Cabal Coffers
Murmuring Bosk OR a Hideaway land
Cabal Coffers
Eye of Ugin
$$ Land (only one, probably Maze of Ith since Karakas is niche and Wasteland has 2 promos already)
Academy Ruins
Blinkmoth Nexus OR Mishra's Factory
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
City of Brass
Some bad Kamigawa land (the legendary cycle)
Flagstones of Trokair
Reflecting Pool/Exotic Orchard/other drawback Rainbow land
Next set preview land
Ok. There's clearly a pretty significant language barrier here, and criticizing each others' play experience from halfway across the planet does nothing. Here are my last words on the topic:
All cards provide us some kind of advantage, or else we wouldn't play them! That's just a given. Yes, there are obviously kinds of advantage: Card advantage, tempo advantage, etc, but we don't have to classify everything. Duplicant on a creature isn't any sort of advantage. You traded one card for one card and one creature for one creature! You don't have to call it "board advantage" or anything; it's just a good card in this deck. That's why just giving everything a tag of ____ advantage is generic and means nothing. We already know that all of the cards in our deck advance our game state in some way or another, and giving a name to every card's kind of advantage is unnecessary.
The most powerful thing you can do in Magic is give yourself a lot of options. This is why cards like Browbeat are bad: they give your opponent a choice, rather than you. This is especially true in toolbox decks like this one, or Maverick with Green Sun's Zenith, or anything else similar. Blightsteel is absolutely going to be a dead card some of the time! But don't try to tell me that none of the other cards in the deck are dead some of the time. How good is a Forgemaster in hand and a Greaves on the battlefield when you just saw your opponent flip Stifle off Delver? How good is a Duplicant against Storm? They're probably about as good as Blightsteel Colossus is when you've got him in hand with 11 mana available. But in every deck and almost every game, you are going to have some dead cards, and running Blightsteel as a 1-of isn't that risky. How often do you see a 1-of in your opener? Not too frequently. I - and tons of other Forgemaster players - like Blightsteel simply because he gives us another option, one that's good when we have to kill an opponent quickly (Storm) or one that's good in long, grindy gamestates that degenerate into empty boards, or one that cam occasionally slam in for lethal out of nowhere on Turn 2. He's just another choice for us in this deck, and he's a damn good one.
As far as I'm concerned, we're done here re: Blightsteel.
yep intuition allways gets milled i think i will take them out and go up on entomb and E-tutor
think i have the deck all set up now then good thing i have all the cards allready.
1. i have tryed Sensei's Divining Top as i see you have dont you think its just a waste of space in your deck ? i would certanly not tutor after it.
2 why do you have Tower of the Magistrate ?
3 you say that you need a forrest for when they cast blood moon cant you just counter it with Pithing Needle? so when you know they have it just tutor it early just to be safe?
1. No. It allows to choose when to Loam, whether it's all lands or if it's tutors/permanents we want to hold onto. I tutor for it more than almost anything else.
4.what duals do i need? i have 6 so far i can see you only have 5?
5.i also cant rly see the need for Ghost Quarter as most times its played its just to slow even with loam
thx im quite the noob
No problem. Glad to help people with the archetype.
1. Circle is great, but it's only really needed as a 1-of in the side.
2. Intuition is also great. However, in my build I've found it awkward most of the time simply because my build can't generate the same insane mana like the 4 Intuition / 4 Exploration / 4 Manabond build. I was running it as a 1-of, but I just cut it since it was getting milled. I also didn't like using it to tutor for accelerants, since you'd lose 2 in the process if you Intuition for 3 Explorations. It's a strong card; it's too slow in my build.
3. Entomb is a very strong tutor, kind of a cross between Intuition and E-Tutor. I like that it can get any land OR Loam OR an artifact if we've got active Academy Ruins. I don't like that it requires an active Academy Ruins to get artifacts, since Enlightened Tutor is just better for that. However, IMO it's probably as good if not better than Intuition in some builds and I think I want to test it out again when I have more time.
4. I think I miscounted when I looked at your list the first time. 5-6 duals is the best number as far as I've tested. Fetches are far better to draw in your opener than duals.
5. Ghost Quarter serves three purposes: 1) It acts as an alternative Wasteland against many decks, which is very relevant postboard where Waste is probably the second most common Extraction target after Loam; 2) It allows us to grind out decks in slower matchups, usually with Crucible/Exploration. This is done by Ghost Quartering the opponent's lands every turn and then dropping a Tabernacle/Smokestack to wipe their board once they have no more lands in play. 3) It allows us to get our basic Forest, which is pretty crucial for fighting through things like Blood Moon.
I have considered going up to 2 Ghost Quarter and 3 Wastelands. It's that good.
Early Smokestack is good. My board has a Circle of Protection: Red since I'm using the Enlightened Tutor package, and that coupled with Chalice of the Void at 1 and Zuran Orb can give me a solid chance. Ethersworn Canonist can chump block/stem the bleeding, and artifact/enchant hate can hit things like Sulfuric Vortex.
Regarding your list:
1. It's nowhere near 38 Lands; it's 29. You need to seriously increase the land count to consider that deck lands. The lack of Tolaria West is really a problem and you don't have enough duals.
2. Your tutor package is far too extensive. You have 11 tutoring spells! These tutors are all very specific and require building around; you can't just throw them all together. You absolutely do not need the full set of Manabond in a list like yours. I would switch to an E-Tutor build based on what your deck looks like right now; Intuition is slow and Crop Rotation is just not very good.
It seemed that you needed clarification. You are being blind. I never said that a turn 2/3 kill is what this deck should be doing. I said that a turn-2/turn-3 kill is an option that this deck has. If that were the main game plan, the deck would run 4 Blightsteels. It doesn't, because it is a bad choice in many scenarios. However, it's also a good choice in many scenarios. "Advantage" is a generic word that means nothing. There are all types of advantage in MTG - and I mentioned both card advantage and "board advantage," which isn't even a real thing, in my post. Blightsteel Colossus's advantage is that he wins games, and that he doesn't have to come in out every game. If you win the game, you don't need to waste time Duplicanting a Delver or whatever. You have options. Insta-kill seems like a good option in most decks that can support it, like Metalworker. I'm done talking with you if you're going to be so thick about this point, because you clearly just don't understand how this deck works, and I am positive that anyone and everyone who has actually played this deck will agree.
You are thinking narrowly. Nobody on this thread is advocating for Colossus to be the go-to, end-all, first option win condition. That's a great way to get it killed and get 2-for-1ed. I am not saying he is the go-to win con, and I am not discounting any other creatures we run. I am saying he is ONE go-to wincon. I never called you a noob. All I said was that you are being narrow-minded and stubborn regarding the power of Colossus in this deck.
All kinds of card advantage and board advantage are good on paper, but Magic is not a game of black and white. Sometimes it is the right choice to bring out a Metalworker against RUG and sometimes it is the right choice to bring out Blightsteel against Merfolk. Magic is a game of adaptation, and you can never have one specific answer for any one specific matchup. When I played MUD, I ran Blightsteel because he wins games. Pure and simple. So what if my opponents run Path to Exile? If they've got a single X/1 blocker and no mana open, then I Blightsteel them and win. Just because a card is in their deck does not mean that a) it's in their hand and b) that they have the resources to use it. Or how about this: Lightning Greaves. A hugely powerful card that this deck likes to see as often as possible. Get Blightsteel. Equip. Kill. That's how things work. Greaves stops all the things like Maze of Ith, and Bolt and Qasali are not even answers to Blightsteel. Don't be an idiot and go for him without Greaves directly into a Stifle or something. But you'll find that this deck has plenty of times where a Blightsteel is just a win.
You seem to have an inability to understand my posts and an inability to make yours readable. Duplicant / Hellkite / Titan / Wurmcoil are all incredible cards. But none of them win the game in one single swing, and that is what Blightsteel Colossus can do. Nobody cares what the theoretical best card is to bring out against RUG if you can kill them before you have to think about board states. Very few decks have a developed presence turns 1-3. Yes, Legacy is a crazy fast format. That doesn't change the fact that you still see a lot of "land, go," on turns 1-3, and we can capitalize on that with Blightsteel.
Also, I'd really love to see you win a game against UW Blade solely after resolving a Sundering Titan.
Library would be absurd in lands.dec. Sure it might not fit into the current shell of lands, but I bet lands players would be trying to break the card immediately upon its unbanning to suit their needs. At worst, it's life from the loam 5-8 in that deck since if you have it in your opener you can get the card advantage going on turn 1 on the draw or turn 2 on the play. I would love to play lands with 4 libraries, it would be obscene against any control deck and against aggro it might not be the best but it would still be damn good.
.
Possibly. The thing is that the mana denial engine of "waste you, Loam, rewaste you" or even just "Port you, cast loam" takes a lot of cards and turns, so Library would rarely be active. That, and implementing another colorless land into an already shaky 4-5c manabase would be kind of rough. But in retrospect, Bottle Gnomes's and this point are correct - lots of archetypes would probably build themselves around Library (not to mention the insane price the card would hit).
Lands would never play Library of Alexandria. Library does nothing for me unless I'm already winning. It has nothing to do with having poor synergy with Manabond. I drop my hand very fast while playing the deck, and if I'm able to keep 7 cards in hand with Exploration then I can't possibly be doing any disruption, and I'm going to lose.
EDIT: I am not advocating the unbanning of LoA. I do think it would really, really overpower certain archetypes.
Actually it DOES stand there. I'm curious about what MU he is the best card to fetch with kuldotha.
PS: proggy is defeated just by emperion and tower... please... i shoot with sphere and do race with wurm... or just hellkite... com'on
Spirit
In every matchup he is the ideal early target because he is a must answer and kills every other creature. Maybe he isn't good all the time. Who cares? You're running him as a 1-of in a deck with 0-2 tutors excluding Forgemaster. The only reasonable way to get him into play is via Forgemaster, and he present a must-answer threat to almost every deck. How many decks can deal with a one-hit kill? Maybe they'll block once. Maybe they'll draw a Swords if you don't have Greaves on the Blightsteel. It doesn't matter, because no matter what happens he wins the game when he comes into play or he takes care of creatures or eats a removal spell that would hit your Worker.
Have fun shooting down a land with a Trinisphere. I was not saying Progenitus or Tower of the Magistrate are problems. I was saying that Blightsteel beats every creature in the meta EXCEPT for Progenitus and that once he's on the field, Tower/Stifle is the only thing that keeps him unGreaved.
Try to speak in a way that's actually followable, please; I can barely understand your post. Have you even played this deck?
Somewhat. It's either Inkmoth or Blinkmoth in affinity, but there's no way it's going to ever hit Mutavault and it's pretty niche anyways. $10 for the rest of its lifetime in Standard and $5-7 post rotation IMO.
Serra Ascendant is a good card in EDH and also a good way to make everyone at the table hate you.
I'm looking forward to Indy. I'm a little worried, though - apparently people were mugged for cards in the bathrooms at GP Baltimore. I'll just keep a really close eye on things.
I've gotten some absolutely awesome stuff lately, but I'm trying to wait to post it until it all comes in. Mail from Russia and Germany takes a while
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle OR other Zen land (Emeria?)
Glacial Chasm
Cabal Coffers
Murmuring Bosk OR a Hideaway land
Cabal Coffers
Eye of Ugin
$$ Land (only one, probably Maze of Ith since Karakas is niche and Wasteland has 2 promos already)
Academy Ruins
Blinkmoth Nexus OR Mishra's Factory
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
City of Brass
Some bad Kamigawa land (the legendary cycle)
Flagstones of Trokair
Reflecting Pool/Exotic Orchard/other drawback Rainbow land
Next set preview land
All cards provide us some kind of advantage, or else we wouldn't play them! That's just a given. Yes, there are obviously kinds of advantage: Card advantage, tempo advantage, etc, but we don't have to classify everything. Duplicant on a creature isn't any sort of advantage. You traded one card for one card and one creature for one creature! You don't have to call it "board advantage" or anything; it's just a good card in this deck. That's why just giving everything a tag of ____ advantage is generic and means nothing. We already know that all of the cards in our deck advance our game state in some way or another, and giving a name to every card's kind of advantage is unnecessary.
The most powerful thing you can do in Magic is give yourself a lot of options. This is why cards like Browbeat are bad: they give your opponent a choice, rather than you. This is especially true in toolbox decks like this one, or Maverick with Green Sun's Zenith, or anything else similar. Blightsteel is absolutely going to be a dead card some of the time! But don't try to tell me that none of the other cards in the deck are dead some of the time. How good is a Forgemaster in hand and a Greaves on the battlefield when you just saw your opponent flip Stifle off Delver? How good is a Duplicant against Storm? They're probably about as good as Blightsteel Colossus is when you've got him in hand with 11 mana available. But in every deck and almost every game, you are going to have some dead cards, and running Blightsteel as a 1-of isn't that risky. How often do you see a 1-of in your opener? Not too frequently. I - and tons of other Forgemaster players - like Blightsteel simply because he gives us another option, one that's good when we have to kill an opponent quickly (Storm) or one that's good in long, grindy gamestates that degenerate into empty boards, or one that cam occasionally slam in for lethal out of nowhere on Turn 2. He's just another choice for us in this deck, and he's a damn good one.
As far as I'm concerned, we're done here re: Blightsteel.
1. No. It allows to choose when to Loam, whether it's all lands or if it's tutors/permanents we want to hold onto. I tutor for it more than almost anything else.
2. Batterskull.
3. Blood Moon is static, not activated. The only way to beat it is EE on 3.
No problem. Glad to help people with the archetype.
1. Circle is great, but it's only really needed as a 1-of in the side.
2. Intuition is also great. However, in my build I've found it awkward most of the time simply because my build can't generate the same insane mana like the 4 Intuition / 4 Exploration / 4 Manabond build. I was running it as a 1-of, but I just cut it since it was getting milled. I also didn't like using it to tutor for accelerants, since you'd lose 2 in the process if you Intuition for 3 Explorations. It's a strong card; it's too slow in my build.
3. Entomb is a very strong tutor, kind of a cross between Intuition and E-Tutor. I like that it can get any land OR Loam OR an artifact if we've got active Academy Ruins. I don't like that it requires an active Academy Ruins to get artifacts, since Enlightened Tutor is just better for that. However, IMO it's probably as good if not better than Intuition in some builds and I think I want to test it out again when I have more time.
4. I think I miscounted when I looked at your list the first time. 5-6 duals is the best number as far as I've tested. Fetches are far better to draw in your opener than duals.
5. Ghost Quarter serves three purposes: 1) It acts as an alternative Wasteland against many decks, which is very relevant postboard where Waste is probably the second most common Extraction target after Loam; 2) It allows us to grind out decks in slower matchups, usually with Crucible/Exploration. This is done by Ghost Quartering the opponent's lands every turn and then dropping a Tabernacle/Smokestack to wipe their board once they have no more lands in play. 3) It allows us to get our basic Forest, which is pretty crucial for fighting through things like Blood Moon.
I have considered going up to 2 Ghost Quarter and 3 Wastelands. It's that good.
Regarding your list:
1. It's nowhere near 38 Lands; it's 29. You need to seriously increase the land count to consider that deck lands. The lack of Tolaria West is really a problem and you don't have enough duals.
2. Your tutor package is far too extensive. You have 11 tutoring spells! These tutors are all very specific and require building around; you can't just throw them all together. You absolutely do not need the full set of Manabond in a list like yours. I would switch to an E-Tutor build based on what your deck looks like right now; Intuition is slow and Crop Rotation is just not very good.
All kinds of card advantage and board advantage are good on paper, but Magic is not a game of black and white. Sometimes it is the right choice to bring out a Metalworker against RUG and sometimes it is the right choice to bring out Blightsteel against Merfolk. Magic is a game of adaptation, and you can never have one specific answer for any one specific matchup. When I played MUD, I ran Blightsteel because he wins games. Pure and simple. So what if my opponents run Path to Exile? If they've got a single X/1 blocker and no mana open, then I Blightsteel them and win. Just because a card is in their deck does not mean that a) it's in their hand and b) that they have the resources to use it. Or how about this: Lightning Greaves. A hugely powerful card that this deck likes to see as often as possible. Get Blightsteel. Equip. Kill. That's how things work. Greaves stops all the things like Maze of Ith, and Bolt and Qasali are not even answers to Blightsteel. Don't be an idiot and go for him without Greaves directly into a Stifle or something. But you'll find that this deck has plenty of times where a Blightsteel is just a win.
You seem to have an inability to understand my posts and an inability to make yours readable. Duplicant / Hellkite / Titan / Wurmcoil are all incredible cards. But none of them win the game in one single swing, and that is what Blightsteel Colossus can do. Nobody cares what the theoretical best card is to bring out against RUG if you can kill them before you have to think about board states. Very few decks have a developed presence turns 1-3. Yes, Legacy is a crazy fast format. That doesn't change the fact that you still see a lot of "land, go," on turns 1-3, and we can capitalize on that with Blightsteel.
Also, I'd really love to see you win a game against UW Blade solely after resolving a Sundering Titan.
Possibly. The thing is that the mana denial engine of "waste you, Loam, rewaste you" or even just "Port you, cast loam" takes a lot of cards and turns, so Library would rarely be active. That, and implementing another colorless land into an already shaky 4-5c manabase would be kind of rough. But in retrospect, Bottle Gnomes's and this point are correct - lots of archetypes would probably build themselves around Library (not to mention the insane price the card would hit).
www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23265-SCG-Memphis-Top-4&p=621867&viewfull=1#post621867
EDIT: I am not advocating the unbanning of LoA. I do think it would really, really overpower certain archetypes.
In every matchup he is the ideal early target because he is a must answer and kills every other creature. Maybe he isn't good all the time. Who cares? You're running him as a 1-of in a deck with 0-2 tutors excluding Forgemaster. The only reasonable way to get him into play is via Forgemaster, and he present a must-answer threat to almost every deck. How many decks can deal with a one-hit kill? Maybe they'll block once. Maybe they'll draw a Swords if you don't have Greaves on the Blightsteel. It doesn't matter, because no matter what happens he wins the game when he comes into play or he takes care of creatures or eats a removal spell that would hit your Worker.
Have fun shooting down a land with a Trinisphere. I was not saying Progenitus or Tower of the Magistrate are problems. I was saying that Blightsteel beats every creature in the meta EXCEPT for Progenitus and that once he's on the field, Tower/Stifle is the only thing that keeps him unGreaved.
Try to speak in a way that's actually followable, please; I can barely understand your post. Have you even played this deck?