So i've been playing Temur Twin for a while and i've being trying a lot of cards that other people are playing that i wouldnt normally play. Like Dismember or trying out Electrolize, which i wouldnt normally play. I know my list does not have a conventinal sideboard but i am really happy how it has evolved.
If he's going to use 3 wooded foothills in addition to the other fetches he might as well added blood moons to his sideboard since he wasn't playing with Krasis either and his green requirements are kept to a minimum. I don't particularly like 2 twisted image in the sideboard I think those spots are better suited for something else.
Keep in mind that he is preparing for a 16 person tournament likely with a slightly inbred meta. His list will have weird choices
Maybe I'm taking this too far but still, I couldn't let this pass unnoticed.
Recent spoils from OGW : my eyes got caught up by this instant speed Pyroclasm.
Okay let me explain :
Sure it is 3 mana which make it kinda worse than Anger of the Gods that deals an additional point of damage and exiles. But still this one is instant speed. It makes me think that it can legitimately take down some activated man lands like Nexi from Affinity, various Mutavaults, ruin some combat etc. The fact that it's instant speed works with the general tempo of the deck. It is also easy to conceal since it's the same mana cost as Exarch/Pestermite and easy to cast (only R in the mana cost)
The card is pretty interesting I think. 3 mana is a thing but since I just got done last friday losing to etched champion in two separate matches I am extra salty. I play rug and champion was the only card that was going to beat me. I had bolts exarchs and a clock in krasis and was closing the game out. He could only plate one dude a turn and I could take the 1-2 damage from memnites and nexi. Then he slams champion and counts all his baubles. I have a turn at best. Never found cryptic or twin though and died. The fact it is instant I think makes it really good. Obviously devoid is why youd play it over pyroclasm but instant speed is so huge. Suddenly an attack with nexi gets utterly destroyed.
I am going to be playing. Well I really dont know what this is. Its rug twin with some nonsense since my store is running more modern. I am more willing to have some fun and in this case its going to the punking people out with their abrupt decays with mizzium skin. Also a random maindeck keranos. feel free to comment and ask about it but I am going to be slinging some nonsense around tonight.
You know why bounding krasis is great? Because it can beat elesh norn. I had a uw tron guy resolve an unburial rights for norn and then tapped out for wurmcoil last Friday. He was very confident and said pass thinking he was a lock. I casually just played krasis tapped norn and suited up my 1/1 with twin. Was thouroughly great
I think you summarized it correctly. I would say that Clique is also good against Control, since EOT Clique will almost always force a reaction from your opponent. This allows you to safely resolve Keranos / Thragtusk / Blood Moon / Goyf in your next turn, while your opponent lacks Counter Mana. Both are "ok" against Midrange, while Lavamancer is certainly stronger against Abzan (no Bolts = good times).
Right now I would go for Lavamancer MD and Clique possibly in the side, if you find space.
Edit: Man, I just played against Grixis Twin and I really love our Counter Suite and Izzet Staticaster right now. Countered a Twin with Pierce, protected my Goyf with Snare/Dispel/Remand, Staticaster on Deceiver + Bolt, untap Staticaster, kill all your Snaps. Also nice how we play sooo much x/3s that dont die to Kolaghans Command (and Pyroclasm). Deck feels pretty strong in this meta right now
I have played against grixis twin a few times and can concur, The games I lost I was a bolt away and the games I won were really not that close at all. Goyf and cheap interaction/clique punishes inefficiency that grixis twin seems to running around with against the cheap countermagic. And then sometimes they just lose to your big threat while goyf is a problem for them.
His list is very interesting, can't wait to see it in action. It's weird that he has no Gitaxian Probes (while also running 22 lands). Also, it looks like his goyf is in danger of being very small for a while, what with no Gitaxian Probes and lavamancers eating his food. I really like running goyf out on turn 2 and starting the beatdown. I like how much cheap disruption he packs with the 2 snares, a dispel, a pierce and a dismember.
Seems pretty weak to tron, which is an issue I've been having as well, especially post-board.
I ran into some issues with RG tron as well. They boarded in 2 Thrag tusks which just killed me. Further reason why I think 4 twins might be necessary in the 75.
Its meta dependent. I play at a store commonly that has lots of burn and affinity with some tron and only a few grindy decks. The full twin package of 4 exarch 2 mite 4 twin I run and I dont look back. If you have a fast meta its nice to have the I win button on hand. Tron also is nicer game 1 because alssembling the combo is easier with less clunky midrange threats.
Hey guys. I wanted to open the discussion on sideboard for us. Against fair decks like Jund and Grixis control where I can't combo against I bring in a few "big" threats.
Currently my set up is 2 Thragtusk, 1 Thrun, and Keranos. I'm happy with Thrun and Keranos but I'm still iffy on Thrag. Have any of you guys been trying other alternatives (Surrak, Batterskull, Wurmcoil, obstinath baloth) and how have they been working out for you? So I just wanted to open discussion and what you guys think is best in the sideboard of the current meta (I've noticed Jeskai control is making a bit of a comeback so maybe another thrun may do?)
Keranos is the nuts without junk running around. Against a clear board, slamming it when you can is often just game over. I have noticed this against jund, grixis delver and twin, and almost any fair grindy deck. Your counterspells become cards to keep you alive and your gameplan goes full control. Whether I'd play 2? No not quute. Grixis control has tools like an angler or cryptic to fight it ok but you really need to have thrun to fight that matchup at all really.
Thagtusk is just value. Its appeal is catching you up and still going over the top. Boucning it with cryptic is fun and its the kind of card that batterskull used to be. This makes it better than keranos a lot of the time because it can take a while for the god to pull its wheight.
wurmcoil being six is rough although going up to that does win games against nonwhite decks. surrak is not that great because hes just a big dude after he comes down.
Depends on how light you are on the combo. Imo there are a lot worse cards. Has anyone else tested with jace, vyrns prodegy? I feel like I am taking crazy pills here being the only one trying him out
I think he could be a very good card if only you wouldnt have to untap with him and he dies to almost everything
I am going to try a pretty similar list to patrick dickmans from charlete at a pptq tommorow. i just wonder if the maindeck clique should be a huntmaster. thoughts? I dont think i will just because my sideboard is midrange.deck
Thrun may be a feed the clan because this store has a butt-ton of burn a lot of the time because of budgets. but I am expecting some blue decks so thats where I stand right now
Fine list and very similar to mine but I very much disaggree with the second colorless land in cavern. Very greedy.
Keep in mind that he is preparing for a 16 person tournament likely with a slightly inbred meta. His list will have weird choices
The card is pretty interesting I think. 3 mana is a thing but since I just got done last friday losing to etched champion in two separate matches I am extra salty. I play rug and champion was the only card that was going to beat me. I had bolts exarchs and a clock in krasis and was closing the game out. He could only plate one dude a turn and I could take the 1-2 damage from memnites and nexi. Then he slams champion and counts all his baubles. I have a turn at best. Never found cryptic or twin though and died. The fact it is instant I think makes it really good. Obviously devoid is why youd play it over pyroclasm but instant speed is so huge. Suddenly an attack with nexi gets utterly destroyed.
1x Desolate Lighthouse
1x Forest
1x Hinterland Harbor
3x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
3x Sulfur Falls
1x Flame Slash
1x Gitaxian Probe
1x Roast
4x Serum Visions
2x Cryptic Command
1x spell snare
1x electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Mizzium Skin
4x Remand
3x Deceiver Exarch
1x Keranos, God of Storms
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Splinter Twin
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Anger of the Gods
2x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Negate
1x Pyroclasm
1x Roast
1x Spellskite
2x Thragtusk
I am going to be playing. Well I really dont know what this is. Its rug twin with some nonsense since my store is running more modern. I am more willing to have some fun and in this case its going to the punking people out with their abrupt decays with mizzium skin. Also a random maindeck keranos. feel free to comment and ask about it but I am going to be slinging some nonsense around tonight.
I have played against grixis twin a few times and can concur, The games I lost I was a bolt away and the games I won were really not that close at all. Goyf and cheap interaction/clique punishes inefficiency that grixis twin seems to running around with against the cheap countermagic. And then sometimes they just lose to your big threat while goyf is a problem for them.
As a tarmotwin player that was an insane match. Its so odd to thinkt it almost wasnt good enough on two different ocassions
Its meta dependent. I play at a store commonly that has lots of burn and affinity with some tron and only a few grindy decks. The full twin package of 4 exarch 2 mite 4 twin I run and I dont look back. If you have a fast meta its nice to have the I win button on hand. Tron also is nicer game 1 because alssembling the combo is easier with less clunky midrange threats.
And why? In grindy matchups its not about being tricky. Its about card advantage/quality. Lighthouse is this and even more. Refuge doesnt do much.
Keranos is the nuts without junk running around. Against a clear board, slamming it when you can is often just game over. I have noticed this against jund, grixis delver and twin, and almost any fair grindy deck. Your counterspells become cards to keep you alive and your gameplan goes full control. Whether I'd play 2? No not quute. Grixis control has tools like an angler or cryptic to fight it ok but you really need to have thrun to fight that matchup at all really.
Thagtusk is just value. Its appeal is catching you up and still going over the top. Boucning it with cryptic is fun and its the kind of card that batterskull used to be. This makes it better than keranos a lot of the time because it can take a while for the god to pull its wheight.
wurmcoil being six is rough although going up to that does win games against nonwhite decks. surrak is not that great because hes just a big dude after he comes down.
I think he could be a very good card if only you wouldnt have to untap with him and he dies to almost everything
list:
1x Forest
1x Hinterland Harbor
3x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
2x Sulfur Falls
4x Splinter Twin
2x Cryptic Command
1x Electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Remand
1x Spell Snare
1x Pestermite
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Flame Slash
2x Gitaxian Probe
1x Roast
4x Serum Visions
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Anger of the Gods
2x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Keranos, God of Storms
1x Negate
1x Pyroclasm
1x Roast
1x Spellskite
2x Thragtusk
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
Thrun may be a feed the clan because this store has a butt-ton of burn a lot of the time because of budgets. but I am expecting some blue decks so thats where I stand right now
I am siding with you, no changes at all
1x Desolate Lighthouse
1x Forest
1x Hinterland Harbor
3x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Flame Slash
2x Gitaxian Probe
1x Roast
4x Serum Visions
1x Dismember
1x Dispel
1x Electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Remand
4x Deceiver Exarch
1x Pestermite
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Vendilion Clique
3x Splinter Twin
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Keranos, God of Storms
2x Negate
1x Roast
1x Spellskite
2x Thragtusk
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
No link here is the actual list